Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

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Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011 ... se/?emc=na
The New York Times wrote:July 29, 2011, 6:25 PM
House Passes Short-Term Increase in Debt Ceiling
By MICHAEL D. SHEAR
The House of Representatives on Friday approved a plan for a short-term increase in the debt ceiling and for cuts in spending, ending a week of intense fighting among Republicans and shifting the endgame of the debate to the Senate.

The vote was 218-to-210, leaving the speaker of the House, John A. Boehner, with 22 Republicans who were unwilling to support his bill.

Urging passage, an emotional Mr. Boehner angrily accused President Obama and his Democratic allies of negotiating in bad faith for weeks and called the bill the only way to “end this crisis now.”

“All they would do was criticize what I put out there,” Mr. Boehner said, his voice rising during a rare appearance on the floor. “I stuck my neck out a mile to get an agreement with the president of the United States. I stuck my neck out a mile. I put revenues on the table.”

He added, “A lot of people in this town can never say yes.”

Democrats in the House sought to embarrass the Republican majority by amending Mr. Boehner’s legislation to require that any deficit reduction be done first by closing tax subsidies for oil companies and corporate jet owners. The amendment was quickly rejected by the Republican majority.

“We face a self-inflicted crisis, and the majority’s solution is no solution at all,” Representative Louise M. Slaughter, Democrat of New York, said during debate before the bill passed.

Even as it passed, the Democrat-controlled Senate prepared to kill the legislation within hours. Earlier on Friday, Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York called Mr. Boehner’s legislation an “absurd, absurd proposition.”

Mr. Boehner earned raucous applause from his Republican conference despite days of resistance from some of his most conservative members, who tied his legislative strategy in knots. Mr. Boehner won enough of them over by amending his legislation to require passage of a balanced budget amendment before the debt ceiling can be increased next year.

In his remarks, Mr. Boehner called the measure imperfect, but accused Mr. Obama and the Democrats in the Senate of failing to produce a competing plan to address the debt crisis.

“To the American people, I would say we tried our level best,” Mr. Boehner said. “We have tried to do our best for our country, but some people still say no.”
In summary: "short-term increase...", spending cuts, no mention of tax hikes, and will "require passage of a balanced budget amendment before the debt ceiling can be increased next year." Also, Boehner is an ass and tries to attack Obama once more.

Fuck you, GOP.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by Flagg »

Won't pass the Senate. As for Boner, go directly to fuck you, don't pass GO, don't collect $200. :)
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by Maelstrom »

Whew! Way to stay strong Boehner and Co. Thought I was gonna have to cut back on my caviar consumption. Keeping a Gulfstream in the hangar and on 24/7 standby is a real killer!
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by Temujin »

Flagg wrote:Won't pass the Senate. As for Boner, go directly to fuck you, don't pass GO, don't collect $200. :)
Yup, it failed.
Senate quickly acts to block House debt-ceiling plan

The Senate voted Friday evening to reject Speaker John A. Boehner's debt-ceiling plan just hours after it moved through the House, setting up a dramatic weekend of negotiations as Congress works to stave off a potential federal default.

The Senate tally was 59-41 on the motion to table the House plan, including some Republican votes.

Even as leaders from both parties engage in frenetic talks on the way forward, the House will hold yet another symbolic vote. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor announced the chamber plans to hold a vote on legislation that closely mirrors Reid's plan, planning to kill it even before the Senate can adopt it.

In a statement on the earlier House vote, White House press secretary Jay Carney called Reid's plan the basis for final compromise and called for an end to "political exercise."

"The president urges Democrats and Republicans in the Senate to find common ground on a plan that can get support from both parties in the House – a plan the president can sign by Tuesday," he said.

The likely compromise would be similar to major elements of Boehner's plan, but would drop his requirement that Congress go through another potentially protracted debate over the debt ceiling late this year.

Instead, it would include a complex mechanism that would attempt to guarantee that Congress will approve further reductions in the long-term federal deficit early in 2012.

The overall goal would be to cut the long-term deficit by more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years, in part by empowering a special congressional committee to propose spending cuts and possibly revenue increases later this year.

Congressional officials hope to develop a compromise that could pass the Senate early next week as the clock ticks down and then go back to the House and pass with a coalition of Democratic and Republican votes.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by Lord MJ »

At the 11th hour, it looks like the only sane thing that can be done is to pass a debt limit increase and work out the rest of the details later (later being immediately after the debt limit is raised, not several months from now.)
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

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Mark my words, Caligula is rolling his grave.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by Simon_Jester »

Nero, surely?
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by JME2 »

Simon_Jester wrote:Nero, surely?
Good point.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

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Hey all...I'm someone who truly understands sweet fuck all about the grand majority of the economy and this issue....I have never been truly inclined to study it and everything related to the debt/defecit is almost greek to me. I am a singer/keyboardist that has very little economic concern...a nice way of saying I'm a starving musician...lol.

I'm one of millions I suppose that are in this very low-income..bohemian lifestyle that is in one way less demanding then white-collar types that work 60 hour weeks and have generous pensions and loads of disposable income...(well..some may argue white-collars work next to nothing and still have all the perks...I'm up to whatever is the truth...)

I work 12 to 20 hours max a week....make $200 to $1000 (at absolute best gigs like New years for example..) for 3 to 4 hours work...yet have no security...no pension..no benefits...it's all a trade-off!

Anyhoo..my point..AND question..is that I'm simply unfamiliar with a lot of this issue...but I'm not dense and from what I'm reading it seems that this is extremely serious and potentially unprecedented in regards to how it will affect the US as a Superpower. If I'm gathering things "correctly"...it seems that Obama is as usual trying his best to make the best out of an almost impossible shit of a poker hand..his opponents....Republicans...are typically being disgustingly selfish and protective of partisan interests and big money...

What that fuck is the real deal here...? What is the worst that can happen in the next week...what can/could Obama do to exercise unique Presidential powers if necessary to force his will...and...well....mother...what period?? I'm lost..this is just not my field..and I don't trust news channels..I trust this board...can some of you fill me in with an overall view? I'd truly appreciate it! Is there hope? Is this a very serious shit-hits-the-fan possibilty?
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Justforfun000 wrote:and I don't trust news channels..I trust this board...
... You have some serious trust issues if you think half the stuff on this board can be trusted. :wtf:
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

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... You have some serious trust issues if you think half the stuff on this board can be trusted.
LOL...Nice! No .. I'm not a complete neophyte....I've been a member since the early days....almost 10 years now..fuck! Hard to belive...

But overall...the IQ level is high..the responses are uncensored...there are no partisan considerations....political pressure...etc..you know what I mean...this is one of the few places truth can REALLY be spoken and extracted! I may have a relatively small post count..but I've always paid attention and I respect this place in a way that I can't express fully.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Justforfun000 wrote: But overall...the IQ level is high..the responses are uncensored...there are no partisan considerations....political pressure...etc..you know what I mean...
Really? The thought of posting something that sounds mildly conservative here scares me. :)

No offense, but this board is pretty damn liberal.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

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Really? The thought of posting something that sounds mildly conservative here scares me.

No offense, but this board is pretty damn liberal.
Ok...well then I guess I have to admit a very strong bias for a Liberal viewpoint...I automatically think of it as being a given among most people that are not religious fanatics..rights-wing nuts...old-fashioned conservaties for the sake of tradition..etc..

I guess I find "Liberal" to be as positive a description as "enlightened" or "humanitarian".
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm liberal on most issues. But not all. I tend not to talk about the others much here.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

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I'm liberal on most issues. But not all. I tend not to talk about the others much here.
Ooooohh....being bad...but you're totally stoking my curiosity...would love to know what you do NOT feel liberal about..and why! PM me privately if you're so inclined and I'd love to have a conversation.. :P
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by Justforfun000 »

Omigod! And you're a homeboy! I'm techincally in Nova Scotia right now..but am returning to TO in a few weeks..

Hope you want to talk! Cheers!
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

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Justforfun... are you posting drunk?
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by SirNitram »

Justforfun000 wrote:Hey all...I'm someone who truly understands sweet fuck all about the grand majority of the economy and this issue....I have never been truly inclined to study it and everything related to the debt/defecit is almost greek to me. I am a singer/keyboardist that has very little economic concern...a nice way of saying I'm a starving musician...lol.

I'm one of millions I suppose that are in this very low-income..bohemian lifestyle that is in one way less demanding then white-collar types that work 60 hour weeks and have generous pensions and loads of disposable income...(well..some may argue white-collars work next to nothing and still have all the perks...I'm up to whatever is the truth...)

I work 12 to 20 hours max a week....make $200 to $1000 (at absolute best gigs like New years for example..) for 3 to 4 hours work...yet have no security...no pension..no benefits...it's all a trade-off!

Anyhoo..my point..AND question..is that I'm simply unfamiliar with a lot of this issue...but I'm not dense and from what I'm reading it seems that this is extremely serious and potentially unprecedented in regards to how it will affect the US as a Superpower. If I'm gathering things "correctly"...it seems that Obama is as usual trying his best to make the best out of an almost impossible shit of a poker hand..his opponents....Republicans...are typically being disgustingly selfish and protective of partisan interests and big money...

What that fuck is the real deal here...? What is the worst that can happen in the next week...what can/could Obama do to exercise unique Presidential powers if necessary to force his will...and...well....mother...what period?? I'm lost..this is just not my field..and I don't trust news channels..I trust this board...can some of you fill me in with an overall view? I'd truly appreciate it! Is there hope? Is this a very serious shit-hits-the-fan possibilty?
Worst case scenario? America's credit rating goes to the same level as Zambia, annihilating large amounts of value in treasury bonds. As a result, our creditors have an economic shockwave, which proceeds to propagate across the world, taking the rickety levelling off of the economy into a nosedive into the ground. SS, Medicare, VA, military salaries, and so forth all stop, making people already on the poverty level crash below. Businesses flee en masse, taking their jobs with them, because loans are now much more expensive. Now pile on a government shutdown.

This is, of course, merely the opinion of economists. If you'd prefer the Fox News talking heads and Tea Party congresscritters opinion, nothing happens except the EVUL CORRUPT LIEBRALS will fail and everyone will vote GOP forever and ever and the budget will be balanced forever. Seriously. Some of these knuckleheads beleive it's made up by Obama.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

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Justforfun... are you posting drunk?
Yes.. I admit.. I've had a few..been a long week.....lot of family in town...big wedding I'm playing for... I'm a TERRIBLE insomniac at times...hope I'm not being obnoxious...I've had some bad postings in the past...honestly not interested in repeating them,,, :oops:

Trying to be light in tone..but am truly interested in the topics....and just about to read Sir Nitrams response which I'm sure will be very astute! Cheers!
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Sir Nitram wrote:This is, of course, merely the opinion of economists. If you'd prefer the Fox News talking heads and Tea Party congresscritters opinion, nothing happens except the EVUL CORRUPT LIEBRALS will fail and everyone will vote GOP forever and ever and the budget will be balanced forever. Seriously. Some of these knuckleheads beleive it's made up by Obama.
Well, if no one does something fast, they'll get a dose of reality in a couple of days.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by Justforfun000 »

Sir Nitram Wrote:
As a result, our creditors have an economic shockwave, which proceeds to propagate across the world, taking the rickety levelling off of the economy into a nosedive into the ground. SS, Medicare, VA, military salaries, and so forth all stop, making people already on the poverty level crash below. Businesses flee en masse, taking their jobs with them, because loans are now much more expensive. Now pile on a government shutdown.
Ok..again..I have to admit my total ignorance...

Can you sum up in an "economics for dummies" which is not far off from my level of comprehension..that explains who and what are "creditors" to the US. I really have just not been involved whatsoever with this facet of things...economics is so confusing to me...especially when we're talking about world economics..

I'm not completely oblivious...I understand some of the concepts of foreign investment, the world market, etc...but it's really minute...to a total laymen..what would be the simplest way to sum up what the crisis is...and more importanly what needs to be done...and CAN be done to correct it.

Is Obama in essence a figurehead that might have the best intentions and even potentially the brains to implement them...but simply unable due to the political realities of Republicans and their power?

Would appreciate any overall explanation...
You have to realize that most Christian "moral values" behaviour is not really about "protecting" anyone; it's about their desire to send a continual stream of messages of condemnation towards people whose existence offends them. - Darth Wong alias Mike Wong

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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by SirNitram »

The creditors are basically anyone whose got a treasury bond. You got one as a birthday gift to mature for your adulthood? Lots of investors. China, Japan, and England, as the top three holders as far as countries go. So lots of people losing lots of money, plus three big economies basically detonating. You get the idea of economic crash? Well, basically, global economic crash. Again. 2008 again along with the other stuff.

It's very simple. A bill that does nothing but raise the debt limit a few trillion will solve this. The US borrows money as usual, continues paying, and life goes on.

Obama can do very little in this. He can act as chief negotiator, as he has been trying to, but the current GOP hates anything he touches, so.

Very short, simple, explanation: Another massive economic crash, and little prospect of any improvement this time, political will or not.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

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JME2 wrote:Mark my words, Caligula is rolling his grave.
Caligula at least had some novel ideas about solving his deficit.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Justforfun000 wrote:What is the worst that can happen in the next week...
You remember those newsreels of the Great Depression? You ever wondered what they would look like in colour?
what can/could Obama do to exercise unique Presidential powers if necessary to force his will...and...well....mother...what period??
There's a proposal that the President could use the 14th Amendment to call into question the Constitutionality of a debt cap, it sets a bad precedence but if what I understand to be true is correct then it's preferable to the complete and total meltdown of the global economy.
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Re: Houses agrees to raise debt ceiling, plan still sucks.

Post by K. A. Pital »

A technical default by a nation that's been running a debt with 100% debt to GDP ratio (something people said is bad, pointing to Japan and Greece as examples of how 100% debt-to-GDP is bad and should definetely impact the solvency ratings of the indebted) for quite a while is enough to completely and utterly destroy the world economy? And a bunch of people in that nation's Congress can enact said technical default simply because they don't like the current President?

In this case the so-called "world economy" is a pile of unstable stinking shit which needs to be reformed.

Alternatively, you've all just admitted here that the world's biggest economic player, America, is also the biggest threat to the world economy.

None of it sounds nice to me.
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