USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashed

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USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashed

Post by Kyler »

Washington (CNN) -- An Alaska-based Air Force F-22 that went missing on a training mission is "believed to be crashed," a Pentagon spokesman said Wednesday.

Col. Dave Lapan did not immediately give other details about the situation.

The aircraft lost contact with air traffic control Tuesday evening, officials from Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson at Anchorage, Alaska, said Wednesday.

Gary Strasburg, an Air Force spokesman, told CNN that a pilot was in the single-seat aircraft during a routine training mission.

Contact was lost with the F-22 at 7:40 p.m. Alaska time (11:40 p.m. ET) on Tuesday.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/17/alaska ... tml?hpt=T2

Lets hope the pilot is okay, and he didn't decide to defect to Russia.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Phantasee »

That's such a strange conclusion to jump to. Has defection ever been an issue among USAF pilots? Why would it be an issue now, after the Cold War is over?
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Kyler »

I am a glass half empty kind of guy. While I do believe the aircraft crash and I really hope the pilot is okay.
Though there is dark funny thought in the back of my head saying you never know. Russia would pay probably pay a ransoms amount of money to get the chance to get up close to a F-22 for even a few days before they would undoubtly return the aircraft if it was a defection.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Artemas »

That's not 'glass half emtpy' sort of reasoning, that's 'the glass is empty because communists are trying to steal our precious bodily fluids' reasoning.

I hear Alaska has a lot of mountains. Maybe he crashed.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by FSTargetDrone »

Defection?
Search for overdue F-22 in Alaska focuses on area near Denali Park

by The Associated Press Fairbanks Daily News Miner

4 hrs 39 mins ago

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Searchers are concentrating on an area near Alaska's Denali National Park for an overdue Air Force F-22 fighter jet.

The jet, from Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson near Anchorage, was on a training mission when it lost contact with air traffic control Tuesday night. The plane carries one pilot.

The Alaska Air National Guard is leading the search effort, using three helicopters and a cargo plane. In a news release, the guard says the F-22 was flying with another fighter, which also lost contact with it.

The search area is concentrated near Cantwell on the east side of the national park and about 150 miles north of Anchorage.
Two things: He was flying with another jet. So, unless he got away from his buddy, I think not. More importantly, they are looking at a specific part of a National Park. So that suggests they have a general idea of where the aircraft ended up.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Chardok »

could they tap the USGS and use seismograph data (I know there has to be a buttload of those all over the place out there) to pinpoint more accurately the area of the crash?



EDIT____________
(I'm looking at you, Chewie) :wink:
Last edited by Chardok on 2010-11-17 03:14pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Artemas »

interesting idea, but how likely is it to show up? Would local tremors override the impacts? How well do mountains conduct tremors or do they block them?
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Master of Cards »

Chardok wrote:could they tap the USGS and use seismograph data (I know there has to be a buttload of those all over the place out there) to pinpoint more accurately the area of the crash?



EDIT____________
(I'm looking at you, Chewie) :wink:
I don't think we have too many seismographs close enough to that area, (they're thin on the ground outside massive earthquake zones like SoCa and Missouri)
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Dave »

Missouri is a massive earthquake zone? Are you joking?
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Dave wrote:Missouri is a massive earthquake zone? Are you joking?
In 1811 and 1812 the New Madrid Seismic Zone had three magnitude 8 or higher earthquakes which altered the course of the Mississippi, totally leveled human habitation and sank rather large tracts of land which can still be seen as lakes full of dead tree trunks. That massive enough for you?
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Master of Cards »

Dave wrote:Missouri is a massive earthquake zone? Are you joking?
The New Madrid is the second most active zone in the US, and as Skimmer said it has in recent memory gone off with a high enough power to move the Mississippi.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Alyeska »

Dave wrote:Missouri is a massive earthquake zone? Are you joking?
The Earthquake was so powerful the Mississippi flowed North for two days.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Simon_Jester »

Right. A similar earthquake today would be a really huge crisis for the US, since it would be pretty much right in the middle of the country and would affect infrastructure over a huge area that is not designed to ride out earthquakes very well. So people are very paranoid about early warning, I suspect.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Vympel posted this link over at SB.com.

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/11/17/1529 ... wreck.html

They found the wreckage but no sign of the pilot.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Pelranius »

I suppose that is a welcoming sign of sorts.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by LadyTevar »

I guess the pilot ejected safely?
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Sea Skimmer »

That would suggest he ejected; ejected safely and landed safely is another story all together we’ve got no word on that.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Kyler »

Ejection seats don't necessarily save pilots lives. They have killed quite of few, but in nearly all of those cases the crash would have killed the pilot as well. So you mite as well try to save yourself.

Though in most cases the seats were used in circumstances outside their intended design parameters.

A few good reasons why the pilot may have not ejected, loss of situation awareness or was unconscious. Both are good reasons why pilots accidentally fly into terrain.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Chaotic Neutral »

What does "loss of awareness" mean? Alarms go off and the plane automatically moves upward if it goes too low, right?
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Kyler »

Loss of situational awareness is when a pilot loses the ability to know what direction the is plane flying.

After a set of complicated maneuvers with little or no visibility or sight of the horizon, a pilot loses his orientation of what is straight and level flight. He may be flying in clouds thinking he is flying straight and level but in actuality he is flying a descending banking turn towards the ground.

It has happened before that incorrect elevation information has been loaded in aircraft. While performing maneuvers the pilots believes he has enough distance between him and the ground, in reality he doesn't leading to a collision with the ground.

The loss of situational awareness is one of the leading causes human error aviation accidents.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Broomstick »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Dave wrote:Missouri is a massive earthquake zone? Are you joking?
In 1811 and 1812 the New Madrid Seismic Zone had three magnitude 8 or higher earthquakes which altered the course of the Mississippi, totally leveled human habitation and sank rather large tracts of land which can still be seen as lakes full of dead tree trunks. That massive enough for you?
You missed the part about the 1812 quake reversing the flow of the Mississippi, created a temporary waterfall at a place called Kentucky Bend. And, oh yeah, it rang churchbells in Boston and Toronto.

Missouri doesn't shake as often as some others... but when it shakes, it can really shake.
Simon_Jester wrote:Right. A similar earthquake today would be a really huge crisis for the US, since it would be pretty much right in the middle of the country and would affect infrastructure over a huge area that is not designed to ride out earthquakes very well. So people are very paranoid about early warning, I suspect.
Actually, both St. Louis and Chicago have written rules into the building code in relation to large earthquakes, particularly for skyscrapers. The distinctive crossbraces on visible on the exterior of the John Hancock building in Chicago, for example, are intended to help the building withstand a major earthquake.

Of course, older construction, and there's quite a bit, doesn't conform. And outside the major metropolitan centers I don't think building codes take the potential for such quakes into account.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by TimothyC »

Chaotic Neutral wrote:What does "loss of awareness" mean? Alarms go off and the plane automatically moves upward if it goes too low, right?
Could have been some systems failure that allowed the pilot to eject.

I do have to say, I'm quite glad (and hopeful for the pilot's rescue) now that we know it wasn't a controlled flight into terrain.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Broomstick »

Anyhow, back to somewhat on topic - as part of the Pacific Ring of Fire, and with several active volcanoes and a few seismic faults of its own, Alaska is liberally supplied with seismographs. However, I have never heard of them being used to detect an airplane crash. More likely, the automatic emergency beacon got triggered in the crash and started beeping as designed to do. But really, Denali is pretty rugged territory, it's damn far north, and winter is coming on in Alaska and it gets fucking cold. Never mind the large carnivores in the area like bears. Even if the pilot ejected safely (as noted, not guaranteed) and landed uninjured he needs to be found quickly before the environment kills him.

Actually, until they get down on the ground they won't know for sure if the pilot ejected or not, or tried to ride out the crash, or whatever. That might take a little time. I do hope they find the pilot alive, but if not, that they do find him so his family doesn't have to wonder what happened to him.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by Broomstick »

Chaotic Neutral wrote:What does "loss of awareness" mean? Alarms go off and the plane automatically moves upward if it goes too low, right?
Loss of awareness is any time you don't really know what's going on. It could mean getting lost, it could mean spatial disorientation. On top of that arctic regions are prone to weather conditions that can cause people standing on the ground walking around to become severely disoriented due to a lack of details - basically, land and sky become the same color with no real distinctive landmarks. Bad enough on the ground (where it has led to people getting lost and dying from exposure), but in the air it can be far worse, with a loss of altitude awareness leading to problems like controlled flight into terrain (CFIT). He was also flying at night over a national park, which means little or no lights on the ground, and if overcast no lights from above. Flying like that, you might as well have a windshield painted over in black.

Of course, raptor pilots are trained on flying on instruments. In theory a well-trained pilot need not look outside the cockpit at all. In practice, instruments sometimes malfunction, and at night over wilderness, depending on weather perhaps no outside cues... well, it's bad. There have been times pilots elected to bail out of functional airplanes with failed instruments rather than to keep flying, particularly in mountainous areas.

Or there was some mechanical failure of the airplane. We just don't know.

Um... can I hasten to say that is purely speculation of POSSIBLE causes, not in any way to be taken as a definitive statement of fact as we just don't have the facts here. We have no idea what happened to that pilot. It does not appear to be CFIT. Other than that, no one (yet) knows what happened.
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Re: USAF Alaskan F-22 Raptor Missing Believed to have Crashe

Post by FSTargetDrone »

An update:
Alaska Beat

F-22 wreckage found in Alaska, pilot still missing

UPDATED 4:15 p.m.: Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson reports that it has located the apparent wreckage of an overdue F-22 Raptor some 100 miles north of Anchorage. Here's an updated press release:

JOINT BASE ELMENDORF-RICHARDSON, Alaska (AFNS) -- Search and rescue crews have found the apparent wreckage of an F-22 Raptor Nov. 17 that was assigned to the 3rd Wing here.

The jet lost contact with air traffic control at 7:40 p.m. local time while on a routine training mission Nov. 16.

A search was coordinated by officials with the Alaska Air National Guard Rescue Coordination Center. Airmen in HH-60 Pave Hawk helicopters and an HC-130 King combed an area northeast of Cantwell, Alaska, the last known location of the aircraft.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of this missing Airman, and we thank all Alaskans for their continued support and prayers during this trying time," said Col. Jack McMullen, 3rd Wing commander. "Finding the missing pilot is our top priority."

To continue searching for the missing pilot, a rescue team is being dispatched to the area, approximately 100 miles north of Anchorage, by the Alaska Air National Guard Rescue Coordination Center, the 3rd Wing and Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson.

Colonel McMullen held a press conference at 1 p.m. to make a statement and answer questions from the media.

"Last night a two-ship (flight) of F-22s, Rocky One and Rocky Three, were finished with training ... about 100 miles north of here," Colonel McMullen said.

Everything was normal until about 7:40 p.m., he said, when Rocky Three fell off the radar scope and the pilot lost communications.

"The other pilot (Rocky One) went to a tanker, got gas and then continued to look for the mishap pilot," Colonel McMullen said. "He could not find him. At that time, the Alaska Air National Guard scrambled a C-130 and rescue helicopters. They searched the entire night."

About 10:15 a.m., an Alaska Air National Guard helicopter found a site that fits the data and the description of where rescuers thought the mishap probably occurred, Colonel McMullen said.

"They found the crash site," he said. "They were unable to land at the crash site and take a closer look. We scrambled another helicopter that should be in the area in the next few moments."


Colonel McMullen thanked the Alaskan community and Alaska Air National Guard for their support at such a difficult time.

The name of the pilot is being withheld until the pilot's status is determined.

More information will be released as it becomes available.

(Courtesy of 3rd Wing Public Affairs)


ORIGINAL REPORT: According to several sources this morning, an Air Force F-22 Raptor is long overdue in returning from a training flight that left from Joint Base Elemendorf-Richardson in Anchorage. Air controllers lost contact with the jet Tuesday at 7:40 p.m. AKST, and a Pentagon spokesperson told CNN that the jet is "believed to be crashed."

The story is still developing, but a statement from JBER says that search and rescue crews are already on the job, and are focusing their attention on the aircraft's last known location, an area northeast of Cantwell.

The Air Force has not released the pilot's name, but Col. Jack McMullen, 3rd Wing commander said in the statement that the pilot is the Wing's main concern. "Right now, our top priority is to try to bring the pilot home safely," he said. "We will continue to search until we find our pilot. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of this missing Airman."
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