Deportations higher under Obama than under Bush

[Einzige]

http://americasvoiceonline.org/pages/de ... iscal_year

Deportations in 2010 and 2009 were higher than at any time during the Bush administration -- something that has to be viewed within the context of a declining undocumented immigrant population.Of course, when Bush wanted to press immigration reform, both Kyl and McCain were on board. Now they're attacking Obama for lax enforcement, even though he's taken a harder line on deportations than Bush ever did.

How long will this nonsensical violation of individual liberties be permitted to continue? Who will resist the nativist efforts to turn the United States into Fortress America? Certainly not the liberals, who have proven themselves spineless "and have abdicated".

[Ritterin Sophia]

Why should people who came into this country without going through the proper legal channels simply be allowed to stay? While I do support immigration reform I do not support illegal immigration.

[LaCroix]

I'd wager that the reply would be "That's only the success due to things GWB did, you see, the graph shows a linear growth that starts well in GWB era."

The same people will decline violently that the current economic downturn has any connection to GWB's term, and suddenly started when Obama got in office.

Also, the graph shows that the Non-Criminal deportations are declining, while the criminal ones incline steeply (Which were k.o. steady before). This shows a trend towards giving a swift kick to the worst kind.

Just for fact, as the kid of a legal immigrant to Austria, and now a legal immigrant to Hungary, I can't see nothing wrong in kicking out those who sneak in illegally. If the immigration requirements for the country you want in are too tough for you to meet, then don't try to sneak in - it won't work.

[PeZook]

Why should people who came into this country without going through the proper legal channels simply be allowed to stay? While I do support immigration reform I do not support illegal immigration.

Because they support large parts of your service economy, perhaps? Especially those Americans don't want to do themselves?

[Kanastrous]

How long will this nonsensical violation of individual liberties be permitted to continue?

Until you demonstrate that there is a legally protected liberty to enter and reside in the country without process and documentation, I don't think you even have a rhetorical question, there. Although it's sure a nonsensical one.

[Crossroads Inc.]

What I find funny is that this is exactly what Conservatards WANT! They shriek "Depart all dem dirty illegals! send'em back home!"
But dies Obama get any thanks for doing more deportations then Bush? Of course not!

[LaCroix]

Because that would make the earth break up and drown us in a lake of fiery lava, and Nazis would ride again on dinosaurs to rule over all that is left.

Because they support large parts of your service economy, perhaps? Especially those Americans don't want to do themselves?

After all the illegal immigrants have been justly evicted, the need for external labor will be measured and the immigration of the needed number will be made possible. Just like in any European land, too. My father did this as he immigrated to Austria, and I did the same as I immigrated to Hungary, and did it again when I brought my wife to Hungary.

I don't think Poland is letting everybody just waltz in and take up work without doing legal paperwork first, neither.

[Coyote]

Conservatards are over a barrel on this. On the one hand, they want all them filthy brownies out; but Business needs them to do the dirty work.

An Amnesty program won't work, because as soon as the illegals become legalized, they are US citizens and therefore you can't work them under slave conditions-- they have those pesky "rights" and crap.

This is why Libertarians want to demolish government and unions so much: so that business has the right to enslave all workers, regardless of ancestry and citizenship.

[eion]

Because they support large parts of your service economy, perhaps? Especially those Americans don't want to do themselves?

After all the illegal immigrants have been justly evicted, the need for external labor will be measured and the immigration of the needed number will be made possible. Just like in any European land, too. My father did this as he immigrated to Austria, and I did the same as I immigrated to Hungary, and did it again when I brought my wife to Hungary.

I don't think Poland is letting everybody just waltz in and take up work without doing legal paperwork first, neither.

Um, half the illegals come here legally and then overstay their visas, so unless you're planning to stop all issuances of visas (or you’re willing to micro-chip every tourist who comes here) your little plan just won't work.

Also, when did you immigrate to Hungary? And I’m sure it was earlier but when did you father immigrate to Austria? If you went there after 2004 did you really have to do any paperwork at all since once it became an EU member you could just move there and get a job as easily as a Californian moves to New York for work.

We need comprehensive immigration reform in the U.S. to include 1) A secure work eligibility card 2) Increased border security 3) Increased punishment for employers hiring and/or miss-treating undocumented workers 4) A guest worker program 5) tough, but fair path to citizenship for long-term, law-abiding undocumented immigrants. We must do all 5 or else the situation will not improve. Some of those steps please Republicans, some of them please Democrats, and some please both; let's call it a compromise, that's a novel concept in U.S. politics.

[Rye]

How long will this nonsensical violation of individual liberties be permitted to continue?

Until you demonstrate that there is a legally protected liberty to enter and reside in the country without process and documentation, I don't think you even have a rhetorical question, there. Although it's sure a nonsensical one.

To be fair, while I'm sure most of that is justifiable, I know Mick Kenney (the virtuoso behind all the non-vocal parts of one of my favourite bands) just basically got deported because some border guards didn't believe he made money from music royalties and "determined" that he was there to work. He has to apply for a fiancée visa to get back to her and has meanwhile been sent back to ol' blighty. I don't doubt that similar such crap happens all the time and it's not exactly fair or even processed and documented professionally.

[General Zod]

What I find funny is that this is exactly what Conservatards WANT! They shriek "Depart all dem dirty illegals! send'em back home!"
But dies Obama get any thanks for doing more deportations then Bush? Of course not!

I don't think they actually care whether or not he's doing what they want. They just want to scream loudly enough in the hopes that enough people believe them and get him out of office in 2012.

[LaCroix]

Because they support large parts of your service economy, perhaps? Especially those Americans don't want to do themselves?

After all the illegal immigrants have been justly evicted, the need for external labor will be measured and the immigration of the needed number will be made possible. Just like in any European land, too. My father did this as he immigrated to Austria, and I did the same as I immigrated to Hungary, and did it again when I brought my wife to Hungary.

I don't think Poland is letting everybody just waltz in and take up work without doing legal paperwork first, neither.

Um, half the illegals come here legally and then overstay their visas, so unless you're planning to stop all issuances of visas (or you’re willing to micro-chip every tourist who comes here) your little plan just won't work.

Also, when did you immigrate to Hungary? And I’m sure it was earlier but when did you father immigrate to Austria? If you went there after 2004 did you really have to do any paperwork at all since once it became an EU member you could just move there and get a job as easily as a Californian moves to New York for work.

We need comprehensive immigration reform in the U.S. to include 1) A secure work eligibility card 2) Increased border security 3) Increased punishment for employers hiring and/or miss-treating undocumented workers 4) A guest worker program 5) tough, but fair path to citizenship for long-term, law-abiding undocumented immigrants. We must do all 5 or else the situation will not improve. Some of those steps please Republicans, some of them please Democrats, and some please both; let's call it a compromise, that's a novel concept in U.S. politics.

Since there must be an address and a legal id presented to enter with a visa, it should be rather easy to find them when the visa runs out. But then again, maybe not, as the US doesn't have nation-wide databases.

I immigrated in 2006, but I had to reclaim my Hungarian citizenship first, and then had to do paperwork to get my wife into the country. It was not as easy as you might think. Application for a tax number, registration at the place of residence, registration of birth, marriage, proof of income, proof of being insured already, etc... and all in a completely new system, very bad comprehension of the local language, and no help, as my Dad died right after we made that step, and could only help us for a short time.

It was certainly not like I just moved to another state in the same country - i did that a couple of times already in Austria, in the EU, movement between member states is immigration, instead of relocation like in the US.

My father came to Austria in the early 70's, after crossing the border with nothing than the clothes on his back. So he had it even harder, they didn't even accept his university degree.

The US only needs one thing to stop the illegal immigration problem, and that is the one thing the Republicans will never allow. Give every company/private person that hires someone illegally a sound thrashing. If the possibility of getting checked and the amount you get fined exceeds the benefits, it will stop. (This would also cut down "black" work)

[Kanastrous]

5) tough, but fair path to citizenship for long-term, law-abiding undocumented immigrants.

How is 'law abiding undocumented immigrant' fundamentally different from 'law-abiding burglar' or 'law-abiding embezzler?' It's an oxymoron. Every last person who violates a law is 'law-abiding,' except for the particular laws they chose to violate...

Undocumented immigration is illegal - which is why for the purpose of clarity honest people call it illegal immigration. The fact that someone contented themselves with just the one ongoing breach of the law by being here illicitly doesn't mean that they ought to get a pass on that ongoing breach.

Unless by 'tough but fair' you mean something along the lines of out you go, back of the line, file your application just like everyone you jumped in ahead of, and you'll get the same consideration as they will. Which would be fair. And tough.

[The Spartan]

The US only needs one thing to stop the illegal immigration problem, and that is the one thing the Republicans will never allow. Give every company/private person that hires someone illegally a sound thrashing. If the possibility of getting checked and the amount you get fined exceeds the benefits, it will stop. (This would also cut down "black" work)

We also need increased enforcement to make sure that this happening and to ensure that illegals aren't being exploited.

Except that would require more money and more taxes to raise the extra money. Another thing the American political establishment is reluctant to do.

[LaCroix]

The US only needs one thing to stop the illegal immigration problem, and that is the one thing the Republicans will never allow. Give every company/private person that hires someone illegally a sound thrashing. If the possibility of getting checked and the amount you get fined exceeds the benefits, it will stop. (This would also cut down "black" work)

We also need increased enforcement to make sure that this happening and to ensure that illegals aren't being exploited.

Except that would require more money and more taxes to raise the extra money. Another thing the American political establishment is reluctant to do.

You won't ensure that they won't be mistreated, since that would mean you know they are there. Which would mean you would deport them. You can't make laws to protect people that are hiding from law enforcement. (As those would pick them up and send them away right after they complain to them.)

You would make unannounced inspections in companies, blocking every escape path and check all people present for being here legally. Everyone who's not will be escorted to pick up his stuff from his residence (and most probably his family, too) and will be deported. And the employer will be fined so much per illegal worker that he could have employed two legal workers for a whole year, and will be put on a list for regular checks for a while.

Basically, the high fines and higher tax revenue (since illegals don't pay income taxes, as they aren't registered, and legal workers would have to be hired to take their place) should pay for the measures.

[General Zod]

Basically, the high fines and higher tax revenue (since illegals don't pay income taxes, as they aren't registered, and legal workers would have to be hired to take their place) should pay for the measures.

Chances are a number of illegal immigrants are paying income taxes; they're just sharing identities to do it.

[Kanastrous]

An unknown proportion of low-wage workers paying income taxes doesn't really sound like a big financial gain, for the country. Particularly since if they are paying taxes on their comparatively minor earnings they are most likely receiving refunds.

Although they presumably consume as much as legal residents and citizens with comparable earnings. Maybe. So they're paying sales taxes, at least. To some degree, or another.

[Korvan]

Just for fact, as the kid of a legal immigrant to Austria, and now a legal immigrant to Hungary, I can't see nothing wrong in kicking out those who sneak in illegally. If the immigration requirements for the country you want in are too tough for you to meet, then don't try to sneak in - it won't work.

Aren't there something like 10 million undocumented workers in the US? Even kicking out 400,000 a year is only 4%, so for the majority of illegals, I'd say sneaking in works just fine.

[LaCroix]

If you see being a de facto slave, earning less than legally allowed and living in permanent fear of the authorities as a success, then you're welcome to it... I prefer an at least average lifestyle...

Also, once the Us would stomp hard onto the employers, that number would quickly skyrocket. It's pure capitalisms at work, as soon as the incentive to use them (low wages) is not enough to outweight the potential fines, the people causing the problem (the employers) would start solving it by hiring the risk-free, and just marginally more expensive people.

Most european states have very strict rules, and especially Germany uses the "raiding strategy" on building sites.
German regulation overview
Another source

According to German statistic, in 2000 they checked 92.000 times, resulting in 7700 criminal convictions and 3300 felonies. They levied 96 years in prison and 8 mio € fines.

In 2009, it was 472.542 checks, 104000 criminal convictions and 61.531 felonies, resulting in 1813 years in prison and 55,3 Million € in fines.

If they keep up those measures for a few more years, the situation will get better.

[Kanastrous]

If you see being a de facto slave, earning less than legally allowed and living in permanent fear of the authorities as a success, then you're welcome to it... I prefer an at least average lifestyle...

Compared to the alternatives back home for a lot of people, it frequently *does* look like success.

[LaCroix]

If you see being a de facto slave, earning less than legally allowed and living in permanent fear of the authorities as a success, then you're welcome to it... I prefer an at least average lifestyle...

Compared to the alternatives back home for a lot of people, it frequently *does* look like success.

Agreed, but I thought in terms of "successful immigration". Your kids can't go to school, if you get sick, you can't go to the doctor because you are illegal, such things. But as I know you are probably able to cheat your way through the US much easier than in Europe, as the average US-citizen is nearly as paranoid in regard to gouvernmental control and supervision as the average illegal immigrant, and thusly, fight stricter controls hard.

[Kanastrous]

Well...at least at present, at least in the State of California, which gets a lot of illegal immigrants...

Your kids can go to school - the school officials are barred from inquiring into their immigration status, and if you get sick or injured - medical care is as close as the nearest hospital emergency room.

And there are doctors and clinics who cater to the illegal population.

I'm not suggesting that it's easy or fun, but illegal residents have access to more benefits than you might expect. Food stamps, too.

[Broomstick]

Why should people who came into this country without going through the proper legal channels simply be allowed to stay? While I do support immigration reform I do not support illegal immigration.

Because they support large parts of your service economy, perhaps? Especially those Americans don't want to do themselves?

I am so fucking SICK of hearing that bullshit - from the smiley I'm assuming you're kidding, but I assure that to many Americans who can not find work that is NO laughing matter!

Right - I'm mowing lawns and cleaning things up and doing shit like that, that "Americans don't want to do". Oh, wait, I was born here...

The only ones who don't want Americans doing those jobs are the assholes who exploit people, put them into dangerous situations, fail to pay their workers, and don't want to be reported.

[Broomstick]

I'm not suggesting that it's easy or fun, but illegal residents have access to more benefits than you might expect. Food stamps, too.

BULLSHIT!

Fucking, fucking BULLSHIT!

Illegal immigrants DO NOT have access to food stamps. How do I know this? When I applied last December I had to prove I was a citizen! God damn, I get SO FUCKING SICK of the lies and misinformation!

They ONLY way an illegal immigrant gets access to food stamps is FRAUD. That is, breaking the law.

Stop drinking the fucking Republican Kool-Aid.

[LaCroix]

Well...at least at present, at least in the State of California, which gets a lot of illegal immigrants...

Your kids can go to school - the school officials are barred from inquiring into their immigration status, and if you get sick or injured - medical care is as close as the nearest hospital emergency room.

And there are doctors and clinics who cater to the illegal population.

I'm not suggesting that it's easy or fun, but illegal residents have access to more benefits than you might expect. Food stamps, too.

Wouldn't work in (most of) europe. Illegals have no birth certificates, and thus they would show up when registering for school. And since we have a social net, you would be asked for your insurance before seeing the doctor (even in Hospital ER), or after, if you are carried in with an acute emergency. This would make you show up, too.
Gouvernmental subsidies are given when you register for those, and most need citizenship - also a good way to trigger several red flags.