Raids target Christian militia in Midwest

[Liberty]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/28/mil ... /?hpt=Sbin

Authorities in Michigan conduct a raid on the militia known as the Hutaree.

At least seven members of self-proclaimed Christian militia group arrested, FBI says
The group, called the Hutaree, operate in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio
Operator of a volunteer militia calls Hutaree a "religious militant group"
As many as six members of group arrested at wake for one of its members

(CNN) -- Federal agents arrested at least seven members of a self-proclaimed Christian militia group in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio over the weekend, according to the FBI and a leader of another militia organization.
The target of the raid was a group called the Hutaree, which proclaims on a Web site that it is "Preparing for the end time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive."
As many as six members of the group were arrested at a wake for one of its members, and the property of its leader was searched by federal agents, said Mike Lackomar, a county leader for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, who cited the FBI for his information.
No details of the charges against any of those taken into custody were immediately available.
The arrest warrants remain under court-ordered seal, FBI spokesman Jason Pack said Sunday. At least two of the arrests were in the Ohio towns of Huron and Sandusky, but the case is being handled out of Detroit, said Scott Wilson, an FBI spokesman in Cleveland.
Lackomar, who told CNN his own group is aimed at "aiding the community in times of emergency," called the Hutaree a "religious militant group" with about a dozen members.
He said Hutaree members trained with his organization "on a couple of occasions in years past" but stopped about a year ago, after having an issue with federal firearms regulators. He did not elaborate.

This was mentioned briefly in the nasty teapartiers thread, but I thought it deserved its own thread. If a mod disagrees, that's fine...

Personally, I'm really curious to know more about exactly what motivated the arrests.

[Darth Wong]

It wouldn't surprise me if they were plotting some kind of terrorist attack. I suppose we'll find out eventually.

[Stark]

What kind of nonsensical mission is that? In the end times what's the big deal with christ's testimony? Isn't the course of the end times pretty much set in stone?

[FSTargetDrone]

It wouldn't surprise me if they were plotting some kind of terrorist attack. I suppose we'll find out eventually.

Have you seen their YouTube page? It has all sorts of fun videos of these clowns playing soldier.

[Kamakazie Sith]

It's common for these types of groups to engage in financial crimes, stock up on illegal weaponry, engage in forced marriages, rape, etc. David Koresh wasn't an anomaly, but one of many. The militia ties add in another element of danger because I lot of those groups routinely practice in what can be best described as tactics to counter those employed by law enforcement SWAT, or similar, teams.

I personally would like to see a lot more of these, but securing search warrants from places like this is difficult because the members tend to be very loyal so obtaining good solid intel is difficult and dangerous.

[The Romulan Republic]

I mentioned this in another thread, and I'll repost my source here, as it provides some more information on the possible reasons for the arrest and possible charges:

http://wbztv.com/national/hutaree.milit ... 95616.html

FBI Arrests 7 With Ties To Christian Militia
WASHINGTON (CBS) ―
Click to enlarge
1 of 1
A member of the Michigan Militia shows off one of his tattoos reading "We the people," at a training event in Brighton, Michigan on Dec. 30, 2009.
Claire E. Schneider/CBS
A joint-terrorism task force led by the FBI has arrested at least seven people with ties to the militia group Hutaree in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana, the Detroit News reported Sunday.

The Hutaree describe themselves as Christian soldiers preparing for the arrival and battle with the anti-Christ.


The FBI is believed to have targeted the Hutaree after its members made threats of violence against Islamic organizations. A U.S. official says some of the people arrested in the raids will face gun charges.

The law enforcement official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the investigation. Federal warrants are sealed.

Michael Lackomar, spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, an unrelated organization, says a member of his group was called by members the Hutaree Saturday who claimed their property was being raided. Lackomar says the Michigan militia member is cooperating with the FBI.

Michigan Militia members define themselves as survivalists who favor larger local government and smaller federal government. The group has been recognized recently for helping local officials in Bridgewater Township, Mich. locate missing persons.

The suspects in the Hutaree raid will make an appearance in a U.S. District Court on Monday.

[loomer]

This is poorly timed. The Militias are closer than they've been for years thanks to their perception of Obama's administration as a common threat, and this is stirring them up. They're convinced it's agitprop - take down a questionable militia first to acclimitize the public and then go after the ones that play by the rules.

Allegedly they also hit the Montana Militia and arrested women and children. No evidence of that, but there doesn't need to be - it's stirring up the other militias even more, so if the feds do want to take any more of them on there could potentially be another Ruby Ridge, or worse.

[Kamakazie Sith]

This is poorly timed. The Militias are closer than they've been for years thanks to their perception of Obama's administration as a common threat, and this is stirring them up. They're convinced it's agitprop - take down a questionable militia first to acclimitize the public and then go after the ones that play by the rules.

Allegedly they also hit the Montana Militia and arrested women and children. No evidence of that, but there doesn't need to be - it's stirring up the other militias even more, so if the feds do want to take any more of them on there could potentially be another Ruby Ridge, or worse.

When would be a good time to arrest criminals?

Also, Ruby Ridge was a disaster because the ROE were altered to reflect military ROE. Which is incredibly stupid. It is possible for law enforcement to repeat this mistake, but my point is Ruby Ridge wasn't a disaster because LE was trying to take an alleged criminal into custody. It was a disaster because someone changed the standard game plan.

[The Romulan Republic]

This is poorly timed. The Militias are closer than they've been for years thanks to their perception of Obama's administration as a common threat, and this is stirring them up. They're convinced it's agitprop - take down a questionable militia first to acclimitize the public and then go after the ones that play by the rules.

Allegedly they also hit the Montana Militia and arrested women and children. No evidence of that, but there doesn't need to be - it's stirring up the other militias even more, so if the feds do want to take any more of them on there could potentially be another Ruby Ridge, or worse.

What would you propose instead? Let them flout the law without consequences for fear of escalating things? Wouldn't that just send the message that terrorism works?

As long as law enforcement acts responsibly and respects the rights of these people and due process of law, I'm not seeing the problem here.

[loomer]

Fuck if I know - all I do know is that right now the tension for the militias just shot up dramatically. Something had to be done with the way the right-wing is getting out of control, but I'm just not sure if this particular course of action was the best one to take.

Still, too late and too foreign to change anything now.

Edit:
Didn't see you, Romulan. I'm not saying let them away with it. I'm saying that the timing appears to be somewhat on the poor side. It very well may have been the only chance they'd get, I don't know.

What I am saying is that I now have concerns, and nothing more.

[The Romulan Republic]

Fuck if I know - all I do know is that right now the tension for the militias just shot up dramatically. Something had to be done with the way the right-wing is getting out of control, but I'm just not sure if this particular course of action was the best one to take.

Still, too late and too foreign to change anything now.

Edit:
Didn't see you, Romulan. I'm not saying let them away with it. I'm saying that the timing appears to be somewhat on the poor side. It very well may have been the only chance they'd get, I don't know.

What I am saying is that I now have concerns, and nothing more.

I understand, but unfortunately tensions don't seem particularly likely to ease much any time soon. Easing them by ignoring criminal activity doesn't seem wise. If these people are breaking the law now, then they should ideally be dealt with now. That's my stance on it, anyway.

[Serafina]

Heck, i would be surprised if this shit does not continue as long as Obama is in office.
Some bunch of whackjobs is going to decided that now it is their time to stand up and to it all over again.

Unless someone really cracks down on them hard - but that is pretty much out of question, since the population that has the potential for this is just too big.
A lack of encouragment by the media and of political backup would reduce this population by moderating most of them - but i don't see that happening.

[Liberty]

Ugh. The problem is that this shit plays right into their hands. Yes, arrest people who are doing bad things, but now you will have all the militias becoming even more extreme. There's really no way around it. They'll have one more example of the big bad government to point to.

[open_sketchbook]

Fine, let them become more extreme, then arrest them too. It plays right back into the government hands because the moment they become radical enough, they too can be arrested.

[Liberty]

Fine, let them become more extreme, then arrest them too. It plays right back into the government hands because the moment they become radical enough, they too can be arrested.

While that is true, it is also important what the general public (those in the middle) think. If the extremists become more extreme and get arrested, and that makes more people become radicalized, repeat, etc, that's a problem. However, if the general public realizes the radicals are shitheads and feels that the government should crack down on them, all's well. It kind of comes down to who generates sympathy. If innocent children of militia members are killed by police v. if police or politicians are shot in cold blood by militia members.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Ugh. The problem is that this shit plays right into their hands. Yes, arrest people who are doing bad things, but now you will have all the militias becoming even more extreme. There's really no way around it. They'll have one more example of the big bad government to point to.

Not necessarily. It's when they get killed that the whole martyr thing takes off. David Koresh and Ruby Ridge got a lot more traction than the Montana Freemen did, because nobody died with the latter arrests. And because taken alive and put on trial, people like this tend to come across as what they are, lunatics and idiots.

[The Yosemite Bear]

yes it plays into thier persecution complex, and Fox will probably trumpet this as the rise of evil big government facism/socialism....

[Ryan Thunder]

yes it plays into thier persecution complex, and Fox will probably trumpet this as the rise of evil big government facism/socialism....

Then we'll arrest them, too.

[The Romulan Republic]

yes it plays into thier persecution complex, and Fox will probably trumpet this as the rise of evil big government facism/socialism....

Then we'll arrest them, too.

You can't arrest people simply for saying things, obviously.

Now, if Fox was saying "go out and kill these people," or giving money to terrorist groups, it would be a different matter.

[Ryan Thunder]

yes it plays into thier persecution complex, and Fox will probably trumpet this as the rise of evil big government facism/socialism....

Then we'll arrest them, too.

You can't arrest people simply for saying things, obviously.

Now, if Fox was saying "go out and kill these people," or giving money to terrorist groups, it would be a different matter.

We can't arrest people for painting these terrorists in a positive light, or painting the government in a negative light for cleaning them up, and thus aiding their cause? Well, I guess not. Oh well.

[open_sketchbook]

The biggest problem with free speech is that other people have it too!

[loomer]

yes it plays into thier persecution complex, and Fox will probably trumpet this as the rise of evil big government facism/socialism....

Then we'll arrest them, too.

You can't arrest people simply for saying things, obviously.

Now, if Fox was saying "go out and kill these people," or giving money to terrorist groups, it would be a different matter.

If the militias do go active Fox might suddenly switch sides. The militia movement has no love for the big news networks and part of their gameplans is normally attacking them. Anyone remember the Montana Freemen's target list?

[CaptainChewbacca]

I doubt Fox would ever defend any group taking action against agents or members of the federal government. They're never so blatant, not even Glenn Beck.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Beck says that the militias aren't crazy and that the FEMA concentration camps exist....

[SirNitram]

I doubt Fox would ever defend any group taking action against agents or members of the federal government. They're never so blatant, not even Glenn Beck.

No, only those who walk into churches and kill doctors in cold blood are defended so far.

Oh. And if you fly a plane into a building which has IRS workers in it, they'll happily justify it. Link.