Lost Decade: 1/3 of young people under 35 live with parents

[RedImperator]

So JOIN THE MILITARY and parlay that x years experience into a position. That's what I did.

I'm hearing a lot of "I could take the all possible steps to make me marketable, but I don't want to" in this thread.

EDIT: Yes yes, I understand that some people "can't join the military" for whatever reason, but the majority of the people on this board in the age group mentioned in the OP certainly could pull it off. I did.

Indeed, someone with a degree (the dude with a BA in films will do nicely) should be able to sign up and get bars on his shoulder. Many of the officer trades don't require a degree in the relevant field, just a degree. For the guy with a BA in film, that screams PAFO.

The US armed services (not including the Coast Guard) recruited 181,172 people in total in 2007 (Source). In 2003, it graduated 40,621 students at all levels. Now, if we make thing stupidly simply and only count those without a science and engineering degree (who presumably are much more likely to find employment in their fields), that leaves 21,395 (Source). If you assume half of them find jobs in their fields, go on to grad school, or are unsuited to military service for whatever reason, that leaves 10,398. Is the military in need of an additional 10,000+ officers a year? (Call it 5000 or 2500 if you don't like my assumptions). If not, then "join the service" is fine individual advice, but it's not a solution to the larger problem.

EDIT: Never mind the fact that if every college graduate who couldn't find a job joined the service, it would destroy one of the primary economic advantages of joining the service: having four years of responsible experience on one's resume that most of your competition doesn't share.

[Aaron]

10K new officers a year? Likely not, that doesn't mean that you can't parlay your education into a decent enlisted trade though as that number fits nicely into the ones you've provided. There's more then a couple trades that relevant experience will get portions (or all) of your training written off and perhaps starting off at a level other then Pvt.

Is it a solution for the masses, of course not. It's a solution for some and only a temporary one, it doesn't address the under lying problem of to many college grads and not enough work.

[ray245]

Perhaps there is a disconnect here. Why would studying be a factor here? All the state colleges and universities I know have dorms and oddly enough, have housing clustered around them with in walking and/or busing distance.

I'm mainly talking about cases in metropolitan areas where you don't need to get a dorm to reach school on time. Then again, I believe that even in the US, parent still pays for their children's education right?

Hmmm, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Perhaps it is the cultural divide between you and I. The way I see it, you shouldn't start off buying your dream house that is a close commute to your dream job. If you can, good for you, but I don't think it should be mandatory. Some of life's best lessons are when you are first starting off and learning that not everything comes free, not everything is given to you and you need to be very careful about how you live and spend money.

I don't think we should use cultural divide as a reason to disagree. Affording places to live in is more than owning a house, I'm talking about being able to rent a decent apartment and all that. Instead of paying others just to get a decent place to live in, why not pass the money to your parents instead?

Additionally, you are still ignoring that the fact that just because you are not living on your own in your early twenties, that doesn't mean you won't learn all those lessons in life.

Paying rent to your parents, paying for your own transportation and all that essentially means you are already learning about those lessons in life. Just because you live in your parents house doesn't mean your parents are paying you anything other than you being able to find a place where rent is cheaper.

There are some people in this world who are genuinely surprised, when they move out of their parents house, that toilet paper just doesn't come with the apartment.

Then those people are idiots then. Even then, there is no difference between finding that out at the age of 22 and the age of 27. How long does it take you to learn from that anyway? At the most, you learn to start buying toilet paper yourself in a matter of days once you move out of house.

Being trapped in a social-economical cycle happens much earlier than that. But go on and back up your opinion here.

Living with your parents even when you are in your twenties essentially means you are pooling in your resources to a certain extend with your parents. You are raising your overall standard of living in the house, be it a better internet connection or giving the houses the much needed repairs while getting the chance to save up.

It becomes less incentive for people to save up and provide for themselves with some sort of security net because they are trying to spend additional amount of money just to achieve to surpass their previous standard of living when they are living with their parents.

Moreover, the job security of a person in his twenties might not be good because you are new to the company and unions don't really give a damn about new workers and all that. What about trying finding jobs in an economic recession like what is occurring in the status quo?

How is your child going to repay the loans he got just to ensure he maintain his standard of living?

While I cannot say for certain that living with your parents in your twenties would guarantee you in breaking free of your social economic status, the amount of risk involve would be lesser in my opinion. At the least you can secure yourself for a longer period of time due to you saving the money you have earned over a few years.

What a bunch of bullshit. Starting out in life is hard. It costs money. If you start at 30 or 20, you still won't be able to transition to it seamlessly. I'd rather they get started as soon as they can, as soon as they are ready, so by the time they are 30, they are over that bump. I've heard the same bullshit theory on having kids. Not wanting to have kids until they are stable or are economically ready for them. While obviously, there are upper and lower limits to this, don't have kids in high school and don't have kids when you are on state support and welfare, in truth you are never really ready and unless you're uber rich, you'll never be financially ready for kids.

Instead of living on your own with no amount of savings in banks, a person who starts to live on his own at a later stage in his life can rely on his personal savings whenever he needs it. You are basing your entire case on the assumption that your children can succeed in finding a decent job and have decent wages in his early twenties.

If he fails to do that, you would end up bailing him out because he is your child.

At the same time, you are creating a system where the children are getting what they wanted, such as the houses or car they want to own with their own personal savings as opposed to relying on loans to get them.

And why shouldn't you have kids until you are economically ready for them? It is extremely expensive to have kids, and in many nations, you have to incur additional cost to ensure your kids can have additional tuition teachers to improve their grades. How do you ensure your kids will not lose out to others and can achieve high grades in a competitive environment? How do you ensure your kids are not behind others and does not end up in any of the lower level tier in the education system?

How do you ensure your child is able to survive through an education system that is quite merit based? This means in nations where not everyone can get a degree, yet people who went through a vocational school are not looked highly upon?

If people live at home to avoid bills, that's hiding from life.

They still have to pay all those bills, even if they are living with their parents. And just because you live with your parents in your twenties doesn't mean it is something that is permanent. Surely this means people who live in Asian societies like Taiwan and China are also hiding from life because they are living with their parents.

It's not hiding from life if you are going to leave the house eventually, just that you are leaving at a later stage of your life.

Why do people keep assuming that people living with parents in their twenties equate to you relying on your parents all the way?

[Lonestar]

RI, myself and the Corporal are not necessarily talking exclusively about officers or people with college degrees, we're talking college dropouts(yo) and HS graduates who have no other jobs. If you have experience that military service provides, it can open open more doors than "I got a BA in Art Appreciation at Slippery Rock".

To follow up on that, it doesn't even have to be the military. I knew a dude who was homeless, worked in Job Corps, and eventually found his way into civil service. He did everything he could to make himself marketable(and unlike a LOT of the people on this board who wring their hands and say they are too pretty for the military, he had one whopper of a shriveled bum leg, so he couldn't enlist). During the time of making himself marketable life sucked. Bummer. Few of us get everything handed on a silver platter.

It is very frustrating to read about "oh but I don't have experience! woe is me!" when I busted my ass getting to where I am today.

[Netko]

Knife is definitely getting into some cultural disconnects. A crappy 1 room apartment just for the sake of personal independence or the learning thereof from my perspective as well seems like a waste of family money. Note the family - in a lot of the world, family-level resources are considered more important the personal-level resources. Renting is basically considered squandering your long term resources and something to do only if there are no other options.

I was planning to write some more, but Ray pretty much covered it (good post man).

[General Zod]

Knife is definitely getting into some cultural disconnects. A crappy 1 room apartment just for the sake of personal independence or the learning thereof from my perspective as well seems like a waste of family money. Note the family - in a lot of the world, family-level resources are considered more important the personal-level resources. Renting is basically considered squandering your long term resources and something to do only if there are no other options.

I was planning to write some more, but Ray pretty much covered it (good post man).

There's also a dating aspect involved. Good luck finding a girl who's interested in a guy in their 20s that's still living with Mom.

[MKSheppard]

We've had discussions in the past about similar things like this, where people find it easier to live in mom and pop's McMansion because they can't afford their own McMansion nor want to live in a shitty appartment.

The MINIMUM apartment price here in my neck is about $900 bucks a month; and that gets you a fucking rat-trap infested shithole with all sorts of nasty things. Even renting a single room goes from $500 to $700 bucks a month.

Going all the way out to Frederick, MD; you can at least get a **nice** apartment for $800-900 bucks a month; but the commute is a bitch -- 40 miles and about 1 hour one way; 80 miles and 2 hours both ways.

Given that the minimum low level entry job is about only $900 a month basically, when you factor in the fact that you actually have to EAT (even if it's rameen noodles); and pay for car insurance, etc; you're basically left over with about $1-2 bucks of free money if you can manage to snag a room for $700ish.

And I'm assuming you're a basic HS student without the debt load of college loans.

[Tiriol]

We've had discussions in the past about similar things like this, where people find it easier to live in mom and pop's McMansion because they can't afford their own McMansion nor want to live in a shitty appartment.

The MINIMUM apartment price here in my neck is about $900 bucks a month; and that gets you a fucking rat-trap infested shithole with all sorts of nasty things. Even renting a single room goes from $500 to $700 bucks a month.

Going all the way out to Frederick, MD; you can at least get a **nice** apartment for $800-900 bucks a month; but the commute is a bitch -- 40 miles and about 1 hour one way; 80 miles and 2 hours both ways.

Given that the minimum low level entry job is about only $900 a month basically, when you factor in the fact that you actually have to EAT (even if it's rameen noodles); and pay for car insurance, etc; you're basically left over with about $1-2 bucks of free money if you can manage to snag a room for $700ish.

And I'm assuming you're a basic HS student without the debt load of college loans.

May I ask where you live? That sounds a horrible place to live when one's not rich enough to afford multi-room apartments (which basically excludes almost all high school/college students and other younger folk).

[MKSheppard]

May I ask where you live?

Suburban Washington DC.

[Junghalli]

^ It's about that bad in the San Francisco area too. My mother and I have a one room apartment, with no sink or toilet (there are communal restrooms) in an absolute shithole fleabag place for over $350 a month, and I consider us lucky in terms of how much money we have to pay for housing. Our neighbors are paying more for identical places (they haven't been able to raise the rent on us because of rent control and we've been in there a lot longer than the typical turnover rate for a place like this), and I can't remember seeing a one bedroom apartment for less than $1000 a month - and that was years ago, I think back when I was in Middle School, so it's probably even worse now. The crazy housing prices here are a good part of the reason I haven't moved out yet.

Of course, my family's financial situation is exceptionally bad, as you might have guessed already by reading that.

On the subject of the flaws of the education system, one thing I couldn't help thinking of was when I was looking over the majors page on my university website I couldn't help thinking that there were an awful lot of very specialized soft majors. It seems a little like if you don't want to become a scientist, an engineer, a mathematician, or a businessman you're more or less funneled into things like literature and history. Now, I'm not knocking those subjects, but it's not like there's tremendous market demand for stuff like that; the only thing you're likely to be able to do with a lot of these degrees is become an academic. It seems a little like aside from the fields I already outlined the system is mostly designed to churn out teachers and academics, in proportions that are a glut compared to the actual likely demand for them.

[MKSheppard]

^ It's about that bad in the San Francisco area too. My mother and I have a one room apartment, with no sink or toilet (there are communal restrooms) in an absolute shithole fleabag place for over $350 a month, and I consider us lucky in terms of how much money we have to pay for housing. Our neighbors are paying more for identical places

How much? Like $500 for an identical shithole rathole?

[MKSheppard]

Hum, apparently you can get a unfurnished apartment with AC, one bedroom in West Virginia for $500-$600 a month. The problem is........it's in west fucking bumfuck virginia; and you'll have to drive about 2 hours to get to any real job; unless you luck out and become a state employee.

[General Zod]

^ It's about that bad in the San Francisco area too. My mother and I have a one room apartment, with no sink or toilet (there are communal restrooms) in an absolute shithole fleabag place for over $350 a month, and I consider us lucky in terms of how much money we have to pay for housing. Our neighbors are paying more for identical places

How much? Like $500 for an identical shithole rathole?

According to Forbes, DC is the 10th most expensive city in the US to live in. San Francisco is ranked 5th.

[Junghalli]

How much? Like $500 for an identical shithole rathole?

I forget the number but it is something like $400-500 for a room, yeah. This area may have great natural beauty but the cost of living blows goats, I so want to move.

[Knife]

The MINIMUM apartment price here in my neck is about $900 bucks a month; and that gets you a fucking rat-trap infested shithole with all sorts of nasty things. Even renting a single room goes from $500 to $700 bucks a month.

Going all the way out to Frederick, MD; you can at least get a **nice** apartment for $800-900 bucks a month; but the commute is a bitch -- 40 miles and about 1 hour one way; 80 miles and 2 hours both ways.

Given that the minimum low level entry job is about only $900 a month basically, when you factor in the fact that you actually have to EAT (even if it's rameen noodles); and pay for car insurance, etc; you're basically left over with about $1-2 bucks of free money if you can manage to snag a room for $700ish.

Then, between this and other threads where you said you can't find a job; why are you living there?

And I'm assuming you're a basic HS student without the debt load of college loans.

Are you seriously asking me if I'm a high school kid? Or did you mean my education level? On this very topic I stated I'm back in school on my dime. I understand how hard it is to pay for school.

I'm mainly talking about cases in metropolitan areas where you don't need to get a dorm to reach school on time. Then again, I believe that even in the US, parent still pays for their children's education right?

lol. It's all I can do to pay for mine, I see little chance of paying for theirs. I've already told them I would help when I can, but if they really want to go, they need to pay for it themselves or work their ass off for a scholarship. It's the American myth that your parents pay for your shit, at least for everyone who goes.

[Lonestar]

Then, between this and other threads where you said you can't find a job; why are you living there?

The DC area has probably the lowest unemployment rate in the country, and the same things that hinder his job search in DC would follow him elsewhere.

[Broomstick]

EDIT: does anyone really think a secretary or receptionist position requires a college degree? And yet I frequently see these minimum requirements banded about for such (relatively) menial jobs.

For secretary it depends on what level you're talking about. Average secretarial job, no, college isn't necessary (though it is helpful to have someone capable of writing coherently and doing math). Secretary to a CEO - what is now called "executive secretary", legal secretary, and certain other specialized forms of the job do require training/education past high school.

[Knife]

Then, between this and other threads where you said you can't find a job; why are you living there?

The DC area has probably the lowest unemployment rate in the country, and the same things that hinder his job search in DC would follow him elsewhere.

Fair enough.

[ArmorPierce]

Yes I am poor, I have been poor my entire life. Why would I move out when I can save my financial resources and pay off things like school debt. I'm not going to move out until I am financially able to live comfortably. To do otherwise when you don't need to is stupid and is the reason why many people have to end up moving back with mommie and daddie more broke than when they left.

[Broomstick]

Perhaps there is a disconnect here. Why would studying be a factor here? All the state colleges and universities I know have dorms and oddly enough, have housing clustered around them with in walking and/or busing distance.

I'm mainly talking about cases in metropolitan areas where you don't need to get a dorm to reach school on time. Then again, I believe that even in the US, parent still pays for their children's education right?

Not necessarily.

My two oldest sisters paid for their college education entirely on their own (partly by earning scholarships, the rest by working while going to school). I'm not sure how my third sister paid for hers - I suspect that was also entirely on her own.

My self - my college was 1/3 scholarship, 1/3 money I earned, and my parents gave me the rest. I did go to school in a metropolitan area with good public transportation - but it was 500 km from where my parents lived. The daily commute from the family home to college was not practical, as it would have lasted six hours. Therefore, I needed to live near my college. You have to remember that in North America there can be significant distances between various locations.

There ARE people who live with mom and dad while going to college. Many people take advantage of that arrangement when they can but if you get a scholarship to a school 1000 km away you can't attend that school AND live with mom and dad.

I don't think we should use cultural divide as a reason to disagree. Affording places to live in is more than owning a house, I'm talking about being able to rent a decent apartment and all that. Instead of paying others just to get a decent place to live in, why not pass the money to your parents instead?

As I pointed out, I couldn't live at home and attend my chosen college. It just wasn't practical.

Mind you, I wasn't forced out at 18... I chose to go. And in between school semesters I returned to mom and dad for the first couple years I was in college. My third sister went to college for a bit, came home for two years, then returned to college. Meanwhile, she was working full time, saving her money, and yes, helping mom and dad with rent and other expenses. My parents have always been willing to take any of us back in, should we need it, but in North America the cultural norm is to leave home when you're an adult. In some cases it's an abrupt thing, but most people ease out during the college years until they are (usually) fully independent either in their final college years or shortly thereafter, usually after landing a full time job with decent wages. That's the way it used to be - at present, the economy is not allowing that. In fact, a lot of people in their 30's, 40's, and even 50's are moving back in with family for financial reasons. Our culture certainly allows for that, but it's not preferred.

For that matter, my 80 year old dad just moved in with my eldest living sister, not because he had to do so (he is healthy enough and has the money for his own place) but because after mom died he didn't want to live alone... so there is flexibility over here in family arrangements.

Paying rent to your parents, paying for your own transportation and all that essentially means you are already learning about those lessons in life. Just because you live in your parents house doesn't mean your parents are paying you anything other than you being able to find a place where rent is cheaper.

However, in the US living with your parents while in your 20's will be used against you... it can make getting credit more difficult. It can make dating more difficult. If you're working and it's found out you may face significant social disapproval, even be turned down for promotions because you won't be seen as responsible. Unless there's an extenuating circumstance (such as someone in their 20's caring for disabled parents) or you're in college (students are given leeway here) if you're over 20 and living at home you're often seen as a loser.

[Knife]

Yes I am poor, I have been poor my entire life. Why would I move out when I can save my financial resources and pay off things like school debt. I'm not going to move out until I am financially able to live comfortably. To do otherwise when you don't need to is stupid and is the reason why many people have to end up moving back with mommie and daddie more broke than when they left.

Not to pick on you personally, I don't know you nor your parents, rather to this particular notion. I notice the person staying with mom and pop want to stay till they are comfortable. What about mom and pop's comfort? It takes a special type of shithead to literally kick their kid out, kicking and screaming, with nothing but the clothes on their back; however, most parents would either happily or grudgingly accept their kids back.

If you grudgingly accept them back because they are your kid, why does the kid get a free pass on imposing on their parents, exploiting the very fact they are their parents, so they don't have to move out until they can move out comfortably?

Again, something I noted earlier, a lot of people 'rah rah-ing' this mind set in this thread are college kids. I love my kids and would help them out in a pinch, but damn I'm looking forward to being an Empty Nester. What about my comfort? And yes, self interest was one of the things I listed earlier as a part of this.

[ArmorPierce]

Not to pick on you personally, I don't know you nor your parents, rather to this particular notion. I notice the person staying with mom and pop want to stay till they are comfortable. What about mom and pop's comfort? It takes a special type of shithead to literally kick their kid out, kicking and screaming, with nothing but the clothes on their back; however, most parents would either happily or grudgingly accept their kids back.

I have barely seen any of this huge pressure to move out as soon as possible and only have encountered one girl who actually have a problem with this. Maybe it's a cultural difference due to me having immigrant parents and hanging out with people who are not typical Americans (or American at all). My mother particularly wants me to stay as long as possible (till married and beyond if possible) and wants to move in with either one of the kids eventually. My father thinks it would be stupid to rent an apartment which is basically throwing money down the hole and I agree. In my family we believe in saving money where able to and sustain some discomfort. I guess if you have disposable income it's a different story.

If you grudgingly accept them back because they are your kid, why does the kid get a free pass on imposing on their parents, exploiting the very fact they are their parents, so they don't have to move out until they can move out comfortably?

Part of the responsibility of being a parent? Would it be better if they got suddenly ill and are fucked because they couldn't afford health insurance due to having to pay $1,000 a month in rent? Of course I wouldn't support a kid 'exploiting' their parents (depending on what you mean by that).

Again, something I noted earlier, a lot of people 'rah rah-ing' this mind set in this thread are college kids. I love my kids and would help them out in a pinch, but damn I'm looking forward to being an Empty Nester. What about my comfort? And yes, self interest was one of the things I listed earlier as a part of this.

covered

[Lonestar]

Part of the responsibility of being a parent?

I hate to tell you this skippy, but in this country the legal parental responsibility comes to an abrupt halt at 18.

[Stark]

Are you seriously suggesting the responsiblities of a parent to their children are a matter for legislation? That's hilarious! Kick your kids out in the middle of a depression, the free market will sort them out...

[JointStrikeFighter]

We've had discussions in the past about similar things like this, where people find it easier to live in mom and pop's McMansion because they can't afford their own McMansion nor want to live in a shitty appartment.

The MINIMUM apartment price here in my neck is about $900 bucks a month; and that gets you a fucking rat-trap infested shithole with all sorts of nasty things. Even renting a single room goes from $500 to $700 bucks a month.

Going all the way out to Frederick, MD; you can at least get a **nice** apartment for $800-900 bucks a month; but the commute is a bitch -- 40 miles and about 1 hour one way; 80 miles and 2 hours both ways.

Given that the minimum low level entry job is about only $900 a month basically, when you factor in the fact that you actually have to EAT (even if it's rameen noodles); and pay for car insurance, etc; you're basically left over with about $1-2 bucks of free money if you can manage to snag a room for $700ish.

And I'm assuming you're a basic HS student without the debt load of college loans.

Yeah even in Australia, with government student financial support and no student loans it is pretty hard to move out on your own and study at uni fulltime.

Even in my my city, one of the cheapest to live in in Australia it still takes
an estimated $16,500 AUD per year($14000 USD) per year to live in a 2 bedroom unit with someone.

Federal minimum wage here is 12USD / Hour which means on average you would have to work some 20 hours of work a week to support yourself.

PS Full-time studies is considered 40 hours of work per week; or 10 hours per subject [typically only 3 of these are contact hours]. OH LOOK 60 HOUR WORKWEEK. PS this may not be conducive to effective tertiary studies.

As it stands, the situation isn't that bad in AU; most students are entitled to about 150-200USD/week of financial support from the government, but that goes away if you work too much in a given fortnightly period, so good luck.

PS gov't assistance for students is irrelevant for US students anyway because it would be SOCIALIST

But please, go ahead and tell us more about your RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM knife.

EDIT: Oh yeah AU even has public transport making it EVEN EASIER for us compared to Americans and its still fucking hard.