CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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Ziggy Stardust
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CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

Here is a little article posted on CNN today, written by John Feehery. He is "is the founder and Chief Executive Officer of the Feehery Group, a boutique strategic advocacy firm dedicated to helping its clients achieve their legislative and communications goals in Washington D.C.," according to his bio on the Hill's Pundits Blog, to which he contributes. Besides his decidedly shady work history as essentialy a talent whore in Washington D.C., the Feehery Group represents the interests of such wonderful organizations as Newscorp and PhRMA. This is all technically irrelevant to the article I am posting, I do think it is worth pointing out that its author is a staunch Republican.

Anyway, here is the text of his piece, interspersed with my commentary:
"It is important for us to have a strong Republican Party," Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi tauntingly told a press conference on April 23. "And I hope that the next generation will take back the Republican Party for the Grand Old Party that it used to be."

Thanks Mrs. Pelosi, for your best wishes. But be careful what you wish for. I wouldn't write the obituary for the Republican Party quite yet.
This is an odd way to begin, because what Pelosi said doesn't in any way strike me as an "obituary for the Republican Party." If anything, it is the most reasonable thing I've heard Pelosi say in a while.
Sure, things are looking grim at the moment. Yes, our Republican Party Chairman Michael Steele stumbled out of the starting gate, making several verbal gaffes, and raising questions about his competence. Yes, the latest poll numbers are in the toilet, showing only 21 percent of the American people call themselves Republicans. Yes, Arlen Specter decided the GOP was a drag on his personal political future. And yes, we lost a special election in upstate New York that maybe we should have won.

But things change. Remember a year-and-a-half ago, when everybody thought the election would be a referendum on the Iraq war. Remember 10 months ago, when everyone thought that expensive gas was going to drive people to the polls. It turned out that, by the time of the election, the most important thing that people cared about was their declining 401ks or their lost job.

Here are five reasons why the Republican Party will be back and perhaps sooner than anyone thinks:

1) Overreach: Several of my Democratic friends over the last several months have tried to comfort me when discussing the fall of the Republican Party with one consoling thought: Don't worry, we will screw it up. And on that one thing I agree with them. The liberal Democrats that currently run the Congress are destined to overreach on the legislative front. Pelosi and her California allies, like Reps. Henry Waxman, George Miller and Pete Stark, tend to think the rest of America wants the same things they do, from higher taxes on energy to a national health care plan that could be a blueprint for socialized medicine, from abortion on demand to gay marriage. But most Americans actually look at California as an economic basket case and social mess. It is a beautiful state, but it is also completely screwed-up, thanks largely to liberal governance. The Democrats are certain to overdo it on the liberalism, and that will make the Republicans much more attractive in two to four years.
While I agree that a massive fuck-up on the part of the Democrats is the only way the Republicans can salvage their reputation in the short term, Feehery's take on this is rather puzzling. He just mumbles vaguely about socialized medicine and gay marriage (without providing any evidence as to why these particular issues will lead to the downfall of the Democrats, despite the utter failure of the Republican's value campaigning strategy last November). I do not know much about the economic crisis in California, but is it fair to say it was "liberal governance" that caused it? I was under the impression it had more to do with across the board mismanagement of the budget gap, among other things.
2) Checks and balances: Unlike the parliamentary governments of Europe, where one party runs everything until they mess up, the American system actually gives a preference to both parties having skin in the game. While most voters don't actually think "divided government" when they go to the polls, they do think that one-party government tends to lead to excess and corruption. That is why the people have a chance a mere two years after the president gets elected to give him a midterm report card in the form of Congressional elections. Most polls now show voters prefer a candidate who will serve as a check on President Obama's power. And for most voters, who see Pelosi and Nevada Sen. Harry Reid as even more liberal than the president, Republicans will serve as that check.
Does anybody have any idea what polls he is citing? I can not find any evidence of what he claims. This reason seems utterly insubstantial, except for a vague reference to the American system being better than the European one.
3) Crisis breeds renewal: When things are going well, a political party tends to discourage independent thought and enforce philosophical orthodoxy. But when a political party faces crisis, all of that goes out the window. It is a wide-open world right now for Republicans as they debate amongst themselves what the party truly stands for. The debate will be painful, as neoconservatives, paleo-conservatives, progressive conservatives, moderates and libertarians battle it out to chart the course for a new and more vibrant party. Republicans can afford to have these debates now when they are in the minority, because frankly, they have nothing else to do. The Democrats went through this process in the mid-90s, and they built a new party that attracted centrists like Mark Warner, without alienating old-line liberals like Pelosi or Waxman.
It is true that the mid-90s forced the Democratic party to move more to the center, but that does not necessarily mean this will happen again. If anything, the opposite is happening for the Republicans. Between Specter's defection and Limbaugh's bitch slapping of the party, it seems that the GOP is discouraging independent thought and enforcing philosophical orthodoxy DURING its time of crisis. Feehery makes the point of what the Republicans SHOULD do, but I see no evidence that this is actually what they ARE doing.
4) Talent senses opportunity: Investors know that the time to buy is not when the market is at its peak, but when the market is at the bottom. But it is not always easy to know when the bottom hits. In politics, it is pretty easy to know when a party has hit the bottom. And for the Republicans, it is now. Talented political entrepreneurs look to the GOP and see nothing but opportunity. The old bulls have been wiped out. The new guard is ready to start leading. In the House, young guns like Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan are charting the future for the next Republican takeover. Adam Putnam of Florida and Mark Kirk of Illinois are getting ready for state-wide runs. But it is not just the young guns. It also more experienced politicians, John Kasich and Rob Portman of Ohio, Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania, Jeb Bush of Florida, who see an opportunity to lead the party back to power.
This he is mostly pulling out of his ass. A lot of Republicans hate Cantor, and Limbaugh has already bitch slapped him into place for supposedly diverging from the party line ("we don't listen, we teach!"). He desperately ignores the important example of Specter in all of this: it is true that some of the old guard have been wiped out, but they are being replaced by what amount to fanatics like Jindal. New faces, same ideas.
5) The Republican Party is the de facto Libertarian Party: Most people I talk to think of themselves not as Republicans or Democrats, but as libertarians. Not libertarians in the political party sense, but libertarians in a deeper philosophical sense. They tend to want government to stay out of their lives as much as possible. They tend to distrust all politicians, and when they hear someone say, "I am from the government, and I am here to help," they tend to laugh uproariously. It was Will Rogers who said, "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." The Republican Party does best when it seeks to reform government, to lessen the power of the bureaucrat, and to fight to give more freedom to the people. When the GOP returns to that philosophical creed -- which it will do in the face of the Obama administration's vast expansion of government power -- its fortunes will brighten again.
This last point is ... well, I am just going to let it stand for itself. It amounts to nothing more than, "Hey, remember the last eight years? Me neither!"
If the Republican Party were a stock, the smart investor would start buying it now. Yes, things look grim at the present time, but things change. The GOP is not dead yet, and Speaker Pelosi may see her wish of a resurgent Republican Party come true quicker than she anticipated.
The one thing I must give Feehery credit for is that he at least acknowledges, unlike most Republicans, that it is not merely an issue of branding and marketing, and that the party is going to have to undergo a fundamental ideological overhaul. That doesn't change the fact that I think he's a misguided idiot, however.

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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Samuel »

He just mumbles vaguely about socialized medicine and gay marriage (without providing any evidence as to why these particular issues will lead to the downfall of the Democrats, despite the utter failure of the Republican's value campaigning strategy last November). I do not know much about the economic crisis in California, but is it fair to say it was "liberal governance" that caused it? I was under the impression it had more to do with across the board mismanagement of the budget gap, among other things.
So the Republicans will work on the same issues? I'm shaking in my boots. California's problem is that we had property taxes set in stone, the budget process requires 2/3 vote and the state is in a recession.
This reason seems utterly insubstantial, except for a vague reference to the American system being better than the European one.
Its worse. In the European system you can actually hold a party to account for what they did- in the US they have to work with the opposition so much that you can't hold anyone responsible.

Honestly? The man offers no platform or change to the party that would rejuvinate it besides "not democrats".
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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Pelosi and her California allies, like Reps. Henry Waxman, George Miller and Pete Stark, tend to think the rest of America wants the same things they do, from higher taxes on energy to a national health care plan that could be a blueprint for socialized medicine, from abortion on demand to gay marriage.
How does this guy know that a majority of Americans won't accept these ideas moving forward, especially since the older generation is literally dying off and younger people are much more liberal on all these issues?
2) Checks and balances: Unlike the parliamentary governments of Europe, where one party runs everything until they mess up, the American system actually gives a preference to both parties having skin in the game.
The irony of a GOPer talking about the need for "checks and balances" is so thick you could cut it with a knife. This is the party which did everything in its power to remove checks and balances, with people like the author cheering them on.
3) Crisis breeds renewal: When things are going well, a political party tends to discourage independent thought and enforce philosophical orthodoxy. But when a political party faces crisis, all of that goes out the window. It is a wide-open world right now for Republicans as they debate amongst themselves what the party truly stands for.
That would be a good argument if there was any evidence whatsoever that Republicans are willing to challenge their internal status quo. As it stands, they aren't even willing to offend Rush Limbaugh. There is no "debate" inside the Republican Party; when they hold meetings all they do is bash Obama and rant about how very very right George W. Bush was about everything.
4) Talent senses opportunity: Investors know that the time to buy is not when the market is at its peak, but when the market is at the bottom.
By this logic, any team which finishes last in the NFL should be a champion team shortly, even without a draft system designed to favour them.
5) The Republican Party is the de facto Libertarian Party
Bullshit. They're the economic ultra-liberal party but they're the social totalitarian party.
If the Republican Party were a stock, the smart investor would start buying it now.
No he wouldn't, because a smart investor will wait to see evidence that the policies which drove the company into the toilet in the first place will be discontinued.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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Wait... this guy is citing Tom Ridge as an experienced Republican politician that is going to lead the Republicans back to the Promised Land? And lists Jeb Bush next to him? Oh man... you just can't make that shit up. :lol:

Tom Ridge couldn't lead Republicans to an Applebees, let alone back to power. I thought he had disappeared back into obscurity when he took the Homeland Security gig. He's exactly part of the old guard that the Republican party needs to flush out, not an experienced politician that will give the party a new lease on life.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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Samuel wrote:So the Republicans will work on the same issues? I'm shaking in my boots. California's problem is that we had property taxes set in stone, the budget process requires 2/3 vote and the state is in a recession.
It's really amazing that people could blame "liberal" government for California's problems, when they got fucked by energy deregulation and hamstrung by an inability to raise taxes. The last time I checked, rock-bottom tax rates and energy deregulation were Republican policy planks, not "liberal policies".
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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2) Checks and balances: Unlike the parliamentary governments of Europe, where one party runs everything until they mess up, the American system actually gives a preference to both parties having skin in the game.
Just by this sentence, I know that the writer has done no research and is far from being the politpro he tries to be. No party in Europe runs everything until they mess up. And the fact that he thinks checks and balances are less visible in Europe than in the USA means he has never read any European constitution.

Remind me again, which country has seen no change in the political party landscape since the 1930s?

Of course, he probably is one of those idiots who think checks and balances is something invented in the USA, whereas Europe in his mind is probably run by shifty European party hacks.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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Generally speaking though not even people like this defend Bush anymore--they're more inclined to say he was a RINO and didn't follow real Republican policies at all.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Generally speaking though not even people like this defend Bush anymore--they're more inclined to say he was a RINO and didn't follow real Republican policies at all.
Which is of course one of the biggest self-deceptions ever made - I guess two nominating conventions do not count anymore.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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Samuel wrote:California's problem is that we had property taxes set in stone, the budget process requires 2/3 vote and the state is in a recession..
California's problem is that it's got a retarded moron for governor. If Schwarzenegger had held the line on spending and forced the legislature to only approve increases in spending at/near the rate of population growth/inflation, California would have a surplus of a couple billion or so, instead of being $40 billion in the hole.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

MKSheppard wrote:
Samuel wrote:California's problem is that we had property taxes set in stone, the budget process requires 2/3 vote and the state is in a recession..
California's problem is that it's got a retarded moron for governor. If Schwarzenegger had held the line on spending and forced the legislature to only approve increases in spending at/near the rate of population growth/inflation, California would have a surplus of a couple billion or so, instead of being $40 billion in the hole.
Shep, that 2/3rds vote means that any budget that can be passed that involves raising taxes automatically overrides the governor's veto.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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MKSheppard wrote:
Samuel wrote:California's problem is that we had property taxes set in stone, the budget process requires 2/3 vote and the state is in a recession..
California's problem is that it's got a retarded moron for governor. If Schwarzenegger had held the line on spending and forced the legislature to only approve increases in spending at/near the rate of population growth/inflation, California would have a surplus of a couple billion or so, instead of being $40 billion in the hole.
Ah Shep, if only your knowledge of California politics was equivalent to that of 1950s SAC trivia...

So, Prop 13 and the inability of the California GOP to even the least bit compromise on a budget is Arnold's fault how exactly?

I can only hope that in a few years, the CA GOP will have shrunken to the point where the Dems can pass a budget without holding out for any GOP votes.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

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The Republican party is facing both a short term problem and a couple of long term problems.

The short term problem is that Republican governance has conclusively and fully failed and in the process irreparably tainted everyone associated with their governance, so that all of their leaders have no credibility on the national stage. The nation doesn't trust them, and it doesn't trust any of their leadership, so that's a double blow. They have to find a whole new board of directors, and so far they're doing a shitty job. The lack of leadership and fratricide within the party, especially the primary challenges by unelectable ideologues, means that they're not well positioned to reverse their decline in the midterm elections. So barring the unforeseeable they're looking at several years in the wilderness. People have said that the death of the GOP has been predicted over and over again but they've still come through, but I take that with a grain of salt. Arguably the tactical situation for the GOP might be the worst it's ever been; they were able to come back from the post-Nixon slump with a vengeance, partly because their alliance with Southern and evangelical interests began to pay big dividends, partly because of poor economic performance during Carter's term, but I think more critically because they had dynamic leadership in the form of Ronald Reagan and his allies. Nothing resembling those factors are working for them now; the conservative wing of the party is frenzied and eating their own, the nation blames them for the economy and has no confidence in their ability to resolve it, and they don't have any leaders.

Now one could say that the leadership vacuum in the GOP right now is a temporary thing soon to be resolved, but I'm not so sure. Reagan didn't come out of nowhere, he was a nationally known entity for years and had challenged Ford in the '76 primary. Who now prominent in the GOP seems popular and capable of stepping up to steer them onto a new track? And not only do they not have good leaders now, the party has arguably been rudderless for several years, since Tom Delay was forced out and they lost the 2006 elections, and despite this length of time no one of talent has stepped forward. This is a serious goddamn problem that shows no signs of being fixed.

The long term problems are demographics and Democratic policy initiatives. Demographically it looks very bad. Young people do not respond to the wedge tactics that delivered elections between 1994 and 2004, and by and large they despise the Republican party. The country is also becoming more diverse, and the Democrats dominance among minorities looks unassailable. Over time the position of the Republican party as it is now constituted, basically built upon the backs of white men over 30, is just going to get weaker.

As for the impact of current Democratic Party policy initiatives, I'm speculating here, but some of what they're proposing will have a serious long-term impact on GOP electoral prospects. To whit, the GOP will be known as the party that opposed universal health care, and the Democrats will be known as the people who delivered it. The changes in tax policy might hurt Democrats among high-income earners but huge numbers of Americans are going to get good, cheap health care for the first time ever. This is a recipe for turning millions of people into life-long Democrats. Similar speculation applies to other public works like improving infrastructure, access to higher education, renewable energy, and so on. Some of those are a sure bet to work, others could go either way, but being known as the party that wanted to keep Americans from health care is a bad hand to deal yourself.

What the original article got right is that Republicans have to wait for the Democrats to mess up; they have no other path forward. But he presented this as some kind of strength, which is just perverse. My opinion is that the Republican party is basically already dead because it is a rump regional party without the capacity to even articulate a concept for governing, and it has no prospects to reverse this status unless it makes radical changes. The Republican Party must reinvent itself and move towards the middle so that it can make a play for centrist voters, and I think they will do it at some point, once a new leader emerges from wherever he (or she) is hiding. But it might take several years before they work up the will to abandon their base and try to find a new one.

Of course, I could just as likely end up being wrong. I'm not a political analyst.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by MKSheppard »

Ah Shep, if only your knowledge of California politics was equivalent to that of 1950s SAC trivia...
I know a lot more than just 1950s SAC Trivia.
So, Prop 13 and the inability of the California GOP to even the least bit compromise on a budget is Arnold's fault how exactly?
From some skimming of articles, Arnold had quite a bit of problems from the democrats too, who opposed any budget cuts of their precious pet projects, like school funding, etc, but the larger issues need to be discussed later on.
Cecelia5578 wrote:I can only hope that in a few years, the CA GOP will have shrunken to the point where the Dems can pass a budget without holding out for any GOP votes.
In a couple years, California will be totally, utterly, FUBAR.

Why?

A.) The state will have damn high tax rates; even more so with the tax increases.

Railing against proposition 13, and "LOL NO PROPERTY TAXES" is a massive strawman, when you study comparative tax rates between states.

California

Corporate
Corporations other than banks and financials 8.84%
Banks and financials 10.84%

Income
-- 1 percent on the first $7,168 of taxable income
-- 2 percent on taxable income between $7,169 and $16,994
-- 4 percent on taxable income between $16,995 and $26,821
-- 6 percent on taxable income between $26,822 and $37,233
-- 8 percent on taxable income between $37,234 and $47,055
-- 9.3 percent on taxable income of $47,056 and above

Sales
-- 8.25% percent

Property
--1% of assessed value, cannot increase more than 2% a year.

Maryland (Selected since it's a liberal-ish state, and because I live there).

Corporate
--8.25%

Income
-- 2 percent on the first $1,000 of taxable income
-- 3 percent on taxable income between $1,001 and $2,000
-- 4 percent on taxable income between $2,001 and $3,000
-- 4.75 percent on taxable income between $3,001 and $150,000
-- 5 percent on taxable income between $150,001 and $300,000
-- 5.25 percent on taxable income between $300,001 and $500,000
-- 5.5 percent on taxable income between $500,001 and $1 million
-- 6.25 percent on taxable income more than $1 million.

Sales
--6%

Property
$0.112 per $100 of value for State
$0.661 per $100 of value for Montgomery County (where I live)

California Tax Bill

Income
Income of $50,000: $4,650

Housing (NOTE: Before the financial market collapse, the median single family home price was $418k in CA in 2008; now it's $247k)
$250,000 home price -- $2,500

Sales
Family spends $300 a week on groceries -- $1,287

Total rough yearly tax bill: $8,437

Maryland Tax Bill

Income
Income of $50,000: $2,375

Sales
Family spends $300 a week on groceries -- $936

Housing
$250,000 home price -- $1,932.50

Total rough yearly tax bill: $5,243.5

-----------------------------------------------------

So you have two liberal-ish states, on opposite coasts; and the tax bill for a genericized family is:
CA: $8,437
MD: $5,243.50

So the question is: Why should the genericized liberal family stay in a place that burns down every other year; has high tax rates, with a programmed tax rate increase coming; when they can move across country to a state with the same liberal values they do, but saves them $3,194 a year?

B.) California's leadership is utterly incompetent; we had Gray Davis, who was incompetent, and now Schwarzenegger, who is even more incompetent (if that was possible) -- Ahhhnuld's plan to "close" the budget deficit is based around three things:

---Raise taxes by $12 billion
---Cut Spending by $10-12 billion (not sure on exact amount)
---Raise money through a bond isuse of $11 billion or so. (BRILLIANCE! Go see C below)

As a final bonus, the Schwarzenegger budget was based on rosy projected tax-receipts. Link to fun. Basically, CA is behind projected tax income by about $1.8 billion so far this year.

C.) The entire "lets issue bonds" attitude in california. Want to fund new schools? A new highway? A environmental initative? Don't worry about the problems of computing how much the proposal would cost to implement out of the state's budget, or if the budget is redlined, how can we pay for it with no taxes (which piss voters off)? Eureka! We'll issue bonds! Only problem is, it's becoming harder and harder to access capital since the financial meltdown of last year.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Stark »

Thanas wrote:
2) Checks and balances: Unlike the parliamentary governments of Europe, where one party runs everything until they mess up, the American system actually gives a preference to both parties having skin in the game.
Just by this sentence, I know that the writer has done no research and is far from being the politpro he tries to be. No party in Europe runs everything until they mess up. And the fact that he thinks checks and balances are less visible in Europe than in the USA means he has never read any European constitution.

Remind me again, which country has seen no change in the political party landscape since the 1930s?

Of course, he probably is one of those idiots who think checks and balances is something invented in the USA, whereas Europe in his mind is probably run by shifty European party hacks.
That really struck me too - but to be honest, I think it was more backfaced 'checks and balances now that we lost' coupled with 'ha ha excessive decadent European politics'. His use of a hilarious Americanism like 'HAVING SKIN IN THE GAME' demonstrates exactly who he's talking to.

Frankly I've never heard an American say a variation on 'our system is better than parlimentary systems' where this kind of ignorance WASN'T displayed.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Count Chocula »

Pablo Sanchez, among other good items, wrote:Now one could say that the leadership vacuum in the GOP right now is a temporary thing soon to be resolved, but I'm not so sure. Reagan didn't come out of nowhere, he was a nationally known entity for years and had challenged Ford in the '76 primary. Who now prominent in the GOP seems popular and capable of stepping up to steer them onto a new track? And not only do they not have good leaders now, the party has arguably been rudderless for several years, since Tom Delay was forced out and they lost the 2006 elections, and despite this length of time no one of talent has stepped forward. This is a serious goddamn problem that shows no signs of being fixed.
The leadership vacuum in the Republican party is, to misquote H. Ross Perot, "a great big sucking sound." Reagan ran for President as a Republican three times before winning against Carter in 1980, and was seen by many in the Republican party as an outsider...yet he energized millions of people and won both his terms by huge electoral and popular margins, and (unfortunately) paved the way for G.H.W. Bush to win in 1988. Both Bushes are FAR more representative of the Republican party than the party itself would like to admit, while they at the same time invoke Reagan's name like it's some sort of talisman.

There are some good Republicans (Gus Bilirakis, my Congressman, voted "No" on TARP twice because he saw the disaster it was), but there seem to be more go along to get along RINOs than principled men and women. Worse, their up-and-comers like Steele and Jindal don't have the firmly held positions, presence or charisma to pose a serious challenge to Obama, who is a very smooth and persuasive talker. Plus, they lack any Congressional power, thanks to Bush's (and their) fuckups, lack of regulation enforcement, and growth in government's size and scope from 2000-2008. At this point, their only real choices are to 1) clearly articulate their principles, and stand by them, or 2) wait for the Democrats to get so drunk with power that they fuck up and really hurt peoples' incomes and opportunities. So far, it looks like they've settled for option 2.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Patrick Degan »

They tend to distrust all politicians, and when they hear someone say, "I am from the government, and I am here to help," they tend to laugh uproariously.
Suuuuuuuure they do. I'll bet every Republican who's had his house flattened by a tornado greets the government rep with a belly laugh instead of the question "when do I get my cheque?"
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Darth Wong »

They never get tired of demonizing government, do they? And yet, they call themselves the "tough on crime" party, with a perfectly straight face. And their followers are too fucking stupid to see the contradiction.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Androsphinx »

The electoral maths for the Republicans is actually pretty simple. If the economy is no better by 2012, they have a chance. If not, not. So all they need to do is sit tight and make enough noise so that the money keeps coming in. The Great American Public who elected Bush twice, and Reagan twice and Nixon twice (and not small wins, either) will give them another go.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Edi »

So, Shep, by what measure are those taxation examples of yours about California and Maryland considered high taxes? Sure, if you have a baseline tax rate of 0%, they're high, but for those of us who live in the real world, they just illustrate that Americans are by and large fucking whiny bitches who have no idea what high taxation means. No wonder the country has such budget deficits and is going down the shitter. You get what you pay for.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Samuel »

So the question is: Why should the genericized liberal family stay in a place that burns down every other year; has high tax rates, with a programmed tax rate increase coming; when they can move across country to a state with the same liberal values they do, but saves them $3,194 a year?
Uh, Shep you can find liberal places in Texas as the natives have been pointing out- it isn't too much of a problem as long as you stick to urban centers in the US. A bigger one is jobs.

As for higher taxes in California, Maryland has over twice the population density (541 to 234), doesn't experience brush fires, earthquakes and flooding on a regular basis and is not partially a desert. All things being equal Californias taxes SHOULD be higher- they need to pay for more costs than in Maryland.

More fun- much of the budget cannot be canceled because it is locked in.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by MKSheppard »

Edi wrote:So, Shep, by what measure are those taxation examples of yours about California and Maryland considered high taxes?
You are aware that there are such things as:

County Taxes
State Taxes
Federal Taxes

I only covered State taxes.
Sure, if you have a baseline tax rate of 0%, they're high, but for those of us who live in the real world, they just illustrate that Americans are by and large fucking whiny bitches who have no idea what high taxation means.
We revolted over taxes. What do you expect?

And holy fucking christ. Russia is probably the sanest place in Europe when it comes to taxes. Image
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Aaron »

Edi wrote:So, Shep, by what measure are those taxation examples of yours about California and Maryland considered high taxes? Sure, if you have a baseline tax rate of 0%, they're high, but for those of us who live in the real world, they just illustrate that Americans are by and large fucking whiny bitches who have no idea what high taxation means. No wonder the country has such budget deficits and is going down the shitter. You get what you pay for.
Just to illustrate the difference between Maryland and British Columbia (because that's where my parents are and I don't pay income tax):
Maryland (Selected since it's a liberal-ish state, and because I live there).

Corporate
--8.25%

Income
-- 2 percent on the first $1,000 of taxable income
-- 3 percent on taxable income between $1,001 and $2,000
-- 4 percent on taxable income between $2,001 and $3,000
-- 4.75 percent on taxable income between $3,001 and $150,000
-- 5 percent on taxable income between $150,001 and $300,000
-- 5.25 percent on taxable income between $300,001 and $500,000
-- 5.5 percent on taxable income between $500,001 and $1 million
-- 6.25 percent on taxable income more than $1 million.
BC
British Columbia 5.06% on the first $35,716 of taxable income, +
7.7% on the next $35,717, +
10.5% on the next $10,581, +
12.29% on the next $17,574, +
14.7% on the amount over $99,588
Call me crazy but it doesn't seem that Americans have high taxes at all. I'm not sure what they pay Federally but for the bracket my folks are in, their at 29%.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by MKSheppard »

Samuel wrote:Uh, Shep you can find liberal places in Texas as the natives have been pointing out- it isn't too much of a problem as long as you stick to urban centers in the US. A bigger one is jobs.
I'm sure you can find a liberal town (usually a college town) in Montana. Doesn't mean the state is generally liberal in it's overall state laws; etc.

Though Texas DID give us Elfdart. :lol:
As for higher taxes in California, Maryland has over twice the population density (541 to 234), doesn't experience brush fires, earthquakes and flooding on a regular basis and is not partially a desert. All things being equal Californias taxes SHOULD be higher- they need to pay for more costs than in Maryland.
California DOES keep rewarding morons for living in the same place over and over; even after disasters prove it's a bad Idea -- Malibu anyone? :lol:
More fun- much of the budget cannot be canceled because it is locked in.
You mean the "Classroom Instructional Improvement and Accountability Act" that effectively prevents any real cut in educational spending? It's as brilliant as vaccinating against ebola. :D
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by apocolypse »

Cpl Kendall wrote:Call me crazy but it doesn't seem that Americans have high taxes at all. I'm not sure what they pay Federally but for the bracket my folks are in, their at 29%.
Shep is only using part of the total taxation. I live in CA myself and combined (state, Fed, etc) my total taxes are probably about 25-30% of my pay. I can't recall the exact percentage, but it's in that area. Although I do get some back as a refund.
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Re: CNN: 5 reasons GOP will rebound

Post by Darth Wong »

What makes you think Canadians do not also have multiple levels of tax?
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