Malwebolence: New York Times Article on Internet Trolls

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Saxtonite
Padawan Learner
Posts: 385
Joined: 2008-07-24 10:48am
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Malwebolence: New York Times Article on Internet Trolls

Post by Saxtonite »

This guy went with to met several internet trolls in real life, talked to them on why they troll, etc.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/03/magaz ... ref=slogin

one guy's response, the comments listed are interesting
http://themedium.blogs.nytimes.com/2008 ... lls&st=cse

One of the trolls mentioned in the first article, "Weev" is interviewed by the site corrupt.org
http://www.corrupt.org/act/interviews/weev

the guy's LJ and some more of his explanation and beliefs
http://weev.livejournal.com/305600.html

Kevin Pereira discusses this with Matthias Schwartz on G4TV
http://www.g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/vid ... ernet.html

what do you think
User avatar
Saxtonite
Padawan Learner
Posts: 385
Joined: 2008-07-24 10:48am
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Post by Saxtonite »

I just checked the links, first link does not work (have to register). google "The Trolls Amongst Us" and click the first link to get to the article unhindered.
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12449
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by Edi »

So these guys are unhinged morons with some computer skills with delusions of grandeur about their importance. Whoopde-fucking-doo.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8774
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Post by Solauren »

Not total morons.

They know if they pull that shit in real life, say in a bar, it will get them beaten the crap out of, so they do it online where its safe.
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29205
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Post by General Zod »

“Lulz” is how trolls keep score. A corruption of “LOL” or “laugh out loud,” “lulz” means the joy of disrupting another’s emotional equilibrium. “Lulz is watching someone lose their mind at their computer 2,000 miles away while you chat with friends and laugh,” said one ex-troll who, like many people I contacted, refused to disclose his legal identity.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm sorry, but I just can't take the article seriously after this. I'm suddenly reminded of the part in Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas where Hunter is at that press conference listening to some clueless twat in a suit talking about marijuana culture.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."

Image

ImageImage
User avatar
Mobius
Jedi Knight
Posts: 576
Joined: 2005-09-10 05:42am
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Post by Mobius »

why am i reminded of this?
XET360 belgian news for Xbox 360
User avatar
Coyote
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 12464
Joined: 2002-08-23 01:20am
Location: The glorious Sun-Barge! Isis, Isis, Ra,Ra,Ra!
Contact:

Post by Coyote »

I like how they also try to make it sound like some sort of Robin Hood public service-- "we go after blowhards, people who are full of it". Uh-huh. The griefers go after everyone. That they actually tried to get that description of their activity in after describing how they pilloried a dead kid and stalked and terrified his family.... yeah. Real public service against egoists, there. :roll:
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15749
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Post by Knife »

Wow, that was a lot of text to say; 'geeky kids lash out on the internet where they can be bullies, instead of real life where they'd get their teeth kicked in.'


To illustrate;
After receiving death threats, Fortuny meticulously scrubbed his real address and phone number from the Internet. “Anyone who knows who and where you are is a security hole,” he told me. “I own a gun. I have an escape route. If someone comes, I’m ready.
He's a big man while hiding behind the internet, and yet still realizes he's a fucking douche in real life.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
User avatar
Covenant
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4451
Joined: 2006-04-11 07:43am

Post by Covenant »

Weev is far and beyond the more aggrivating of the two, since he takes what's just standard interwebs banditry and adds in layer upon layer of religious context which would make him something along the lines of a fundie hacker. Obviously it's hard to take anything he says as honest, but adding "religious zealot" and "bigot" to the list is extra special negative awesome. The article's big issue is that it gives the idea that trolling is a philosophy overall, rather than the idea of a philosophy just being tacked-on by the crazy extremist sorts. A real internet war to settle these people out can never happen, so you're always going to be left with a variety of mess on the internet, but that doesn't make it a movement.
Buddha
Youngling
Posts: 101
Joined: 2008-02-04 07:17pm
Location: Nara, Japan

Post by Buddha »

Coyote wrote:I like how they also try to make it sound like some sort of Robin Hood public service-- "we go after blowhards, people who are full of it". Uh-huh. The griefers go after everyone. That they actually tried to get that description of their activity in after describing how they pilloried a dead kid and stalked and terrified his family.... yeah.
Are you talking about the guy who took drugs and was egged on by friends online? The guy went by the chat name Ripper. Same sentiment there.
Image
User avatar
Pablo Sanchez
Commissar
Posts: 6998
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:41pm
Location: The Wasteland

Post by Pablo Sanchez »

So from an emotionally disturbed loser (look at how he tried to pick up that waitress, ffs) with a history of sexual abuse and a delusional sneak thief we are supposed to extrapolate some kind of movement? I found the article interesting enough to finish but not interest enough to draw any conclusions from, except stuff I already knew, that trolls and griefers are nothing more than assholes too timid to misbehave in public.
Image
"I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war."
--The Lord Humungus
User avatar
ArmorPierce
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 5904
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:54pm
Location: Born and raised in Brooklyn, unfornately presently in Jersey

Post by ArmorPierce »

Mobius wrote:why am i reminded of this?
Out of 90 friends they killed 32 of my friends... computers.
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
User avatar
Saxtonite
Padawan Learner
Posts: 385
Joined: 2008-07-24 10:48am
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Post by Saxtonite »

Edi wrote:So these guys are unhinged morons with some computer skills with delusions of grandeur about their importance. Whoopde-fucking-doo.
Based off the article and their tactice, some of them seem pretty intelligent. Assholes yes.
Mobius wrote:why am i reminded of this?
you know, FOX did a follow-up on that linked here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai09cWlyPrQ
General Zod wrote: I'm sorry, but I just can't take the article seriously after this. I'm suddenly reminded of the part in Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas where Hunter is at that press conference listening to some clueless twat in a suit talking about marijuana culture.
how so, that's close to encyclopediadramatica' article on "lulz".
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29205
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Post by General Zod »

Saxtonite wrote: how so, that's close to encyclopediadramatica' article on "lulz".
Nobody takes Encyclopediadramatica seriously, and frankly anyone that does either has a stick up their ass or is a clueless twat. The fact that they think "lulz" are a point system just shows that they're either completely clueless as to the reality of *chan boards or the trolls they talked to were yanking their chain.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."

Image

ImageImage
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

I don't see a link to SDN.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
Saxtonite
Padawan Learner
Posts: 385
Joined: 2008-07-24 10:48am
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Post by Saxtonite »

General Zod wrote:
Saxtonite wrote: how so, that's close to encyclopediadramatica' article on "lulz".
Nobody takes Encyclopediadramatica seriously, and frankly anyone that does either has a stick up their ass or is a clueless twat. The fact that they think "lulz" are a point system just shows that they're either completely clueless as to the reality of *chan boards or the trolls they talked to were yanking their chain.
oh; I just saw the first sentence. Oops.
Covenant wrote:A real internet war to settle these people out can never happen, so you're always going to be left with a variety of mess on the internet,
Can you explain?
User avatar
Pulp Hero
Jedi Master
Posts: 1085
Joined: 2006-04-21 11:13pm
Location: Planet P. Its a bug planet.

Post by Pulp Hero »

Ahhh, someone dress the OP's links. My eyes.
I can never love you because I'm just thirty squirrels in a mansuit."

"Ah, good ol' Popeye. Punching ghosts until they explode."[/b]-Internet Webguy

"It was cut because an Army Ordnance panel determined that a weapon that kills an enemy soldier 10 times before he hits the ground was a waste of resources, so they scaled it back to only kill him 3 times."-Anon, on the cancellation of the Army's multi-kill vehicle.
User avatar
Tanasinn
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1765
Joined: 2007-01-21 10:10pm
Location: Void Zone

Post by Tanasinn »

The problem with doing anything on trolling is that they're a pretty varied group with a ton of different stated and actual motivations, methods, and targets of choice.

Also, I don't know why these journalists insist on focusing on and improperly interpreting "lulz" when there's the perfectly servicable "schaedenfreude" to describe what trolling provides for the average troll.

I can't say I take the bits on weev seriously at all. I'm not familiar with the guy (the idea of a troll celebrity strikes me as hilarious, since internet preeners tend to be a favorite troll target), but he sounds so far out there as to be yanking the guy's chain.
Truth fears no trial.
User avatar
Covenant
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4451
Joined: 2006-04-11 07:43am

Post by Covenant »

Saxtonite wrote:
Covenant wrote:A real internet war to settle these people out can never happen, so you're always going to be left with a variety of mess on the internet,
Can you explain?
Not really. I don't think it needs an explination, since only a deranged mind could take it out of context. Aww, but whatever, fine.

I'm just saying that since the dregs of the internet never go away. The good people of the Earth could log on and out-troll the trolls, or clean out the security loopholes and data leakage, or learn to entirely ignore anyone who says a mean thing, and it won't do a thing. They'll always exist, and they'll remain as just a bunch of internet hooligans. They're common thugs. Even your average hacker is just a bog-standard moron with little more distinguishing merit over a hoodie-wearing mugger.

The only thing they do have that the e-chavs don't have is relative safety from reprisal, since the law has not yet caught up or determined what role it should take in a variety of these cases. It's also difficult to support harder legislation for some of this in light of the hamfisted way a lot of that legislation is written. So unlike gang crime comitted by idiots with knives, these idiots with computers have a level of security due to the fact we can't just fight back or flood their stomping grounds with police.

Unlike the wild west scenario that they posted, you can't send in the lawmen and bring some order to the border. Thus, no e-war to cleanse the interwebs of script-kiddies and dime-a-dozen hackers that aid the troll efforts. Even if we tried, they'd just keep cropping up. Hackers of various sorts will mess with each other, with the rest of us, grow disenfranchised and decide to create security firms at the same rate as new moron script-kiddies come to take their place and hassle other people. Casting them as anything else but thugs who prey on the easy opportunity of the internet's relatively poor security does a disservice to the kinds of people they harass. You don't need to deserve it, or be a high-profile whiner, to get harassed. It's extremely easy to get someone's SSN, or their address, or other information, and to throw that information to the wolves who are too happy to mess with someone's life.

Lulz or not, people deserve more respect. They'd be able to demand it too, if these weren't cowardly attacks from the darkness.
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Assholes thrive in anonymity. What a shock.

This kind of thing will never be solved as long as we demand privacy and our computer and telecommunications networks are set up to provide it. The same privacy which some people crave in order to assuage their fears is also what gives trolling assholes their cover.

Frankly, what most of these trolls need is to be outed and then beaten to a pulp, but we all know that won't happen. They think it's oh so hilarious to intrude on other peoples' lives, but they meticulously keep their own lives secret and would be indignant at any attempt to do the same back to them.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
CaptainChewbacca
Browncoat Wookiee
Posts: 15746
Joined: 2003-05-06 02:36am
Location: Deep beneath Boatmurdered.

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

I don't think its been said yet, but the term 'Malwebolence' makes me want to punch someone in the neck, such is its idiocy.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
ImageImage
User avatar
Saxtonite
Padawan Learner
Posts: 385
Joined: 2008-07-24 10:48am
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Post by Saxtonite »

Darth Wong wrote:This kind of thing will never be solved as long as we demand privacy and our computer and telecommunications networks are set up to provide it. The same privacy which some people crave in order to assuage their fears is also what gives trolling assholes their cover.

Frankly, what most of these trolls need is to be outed and then beaten to a pulp, but we all know that won't happen. They think it's oh so hilarious to intrude on other peoples' lives, but they meticulously keep their own lives secret and would be indignant at any attempt to do the same back to them.
What about the trolls who don't care and are okay with revealing who they are-as Jason Fortuny is (and has done so in the past).

Also, what about the other trolls (what is a good 'remedy' to the minority of trolls who don't need their asses kicked)?

And Covenant, thank you.
User avatar
Dooey Jo
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3127
Joined: 2002-08-09 01:09pm
Location: The land beyond the forest; Sweden.
Contact:

Post by Dooey Jo »

A troll that doesn't need to have its ass kicked? That's like a Christian who doesn't need God.
Image
"Nippon ichi, bitches! Boing-boing."
Mai smote the demonic fires of heck...

Faker Ninjas invented ninjitsu
Post Reply