Italian police to create 'Satan Squad'

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-12-11 07:46am

Italian police want to set up a special unit to tackle the growth of new religious sects, particularly a violent new breed of home-grown Satanists.

The new police squad would include psychologists, as well as a priest who is an expert on the occult.

It would co-ordinate - nationwide - investigations into potentially dangerous religious movements.

The move follows a spate of high profile, gruesome murders blamed on a new generation of Satanists.

They indulge in a lethal blend of black magic, hard drugs, sex and heavy metal.

In the most recent case a gang known as the "Beasts of Satan" bludgeoned, then buried alive, two of their own members - a young woman and her boyfriend - in woods outside Milan.

Experts say the number of Satanists in Italy is tiny - and the product as much of youthful alienation as of any more traditional religious conviction.

But more than a million Italians belong to other minority religions, and some experts are worried that the new police squad could target members of them as well - even though, despite their perhaps strange beliefs, they are entirely harmless.

The police need to concentrate on tackling Satanic criminality, says one of the country's leading experts on new religions, or they will end up threatening religious freedom as well as wasting scarce resources.

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2006-12-11 07:57am

Why do you need a priest? Why not any expert on small religions? Is it just that this expert just so happens to be a priest.

I would also like to know why it just tackles new religious sects. What, you mean old religions don't commit much crimes, cough paedophile catholic priests cough.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-12-11 08:07am

Why do you need a priest? Why not any expert on small religions? Is it just that this expert just so happens to be a priest.

Isn't much of satanism based on catholic imagery?

What, you mean old religions don't commit much crimes, cough paedophile catholic priests cough.

This is Italy. If the police went after the RCC the public outcry would be enormous.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2006-12-11 08:38am

Bounty wrote:
Why do you need a priest? Why not any expert on small religions? Is it just that this expert just so happens to be a priest.
Isn't much of satanism based on catholic imagery?

What, you mean old religions don't commit much crimes, cough paedophile catholic priests cough.
This is Italy. If the police went after the RCC the public outcry would be enormous.

Why bother with satanists then? I saw a report yesterday about the mafia that controls Naples, and how they have complete dominance over the local police and that the Army is on constant alert to charge into the city if the Mafia tries something even bigger than normal. I think the Italian authorities are slightly missing the bigger picture here.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2006-12-11 08:57am

That is so hollywood...

Oni Koneko Damien · Post by **Oni Koneko Damien** » 2006-12-11 10:08am

I saw the title and had a mental image of the 'Satan Squad' running around in red leotards with horns, beards, and black pitchforks, scaring the overly religious into confessing their crimes.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-12-11 10:13am

Bounty wrote:
Why do you need a priest? Why not any expert on small religions? Is it just that this expert just so happens to be a priest.
Isn't much of satanism based on catholic imagery?

Depends on the type of Satanism. LaVey Satanism, for example, is very absent of Christian imagery and background.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2006-12-11 10:14am

mr friendly guy wrote:Why do you need a priest? Why not any expert on small religions? Is it just that this expert just so happens to be a priest.

The idea is that an expert in the occult, priest or not, would be good at recognizing symbolism and such that a Satanist gang (such things do exist) uses, since such groups are all about symbolism and the occult themselves. Such a individual would be good to have on staff.

I would also like to know why it just tackles new religious sects. What, you mean old religions don't commit much crimes, cough paedophile catholic priests cough.

Aside from the fact that it is Italy, regular police can do that. From the article, this unit was formed to deal with a specific problem with Satanists.

And I'm pretty sure the Italian government, at least the part that isn't bought and owned by mafiosa, is well aware that the Mafia is a problem. Particularly in places like Naples and Sicily. Fighting the mob in Italy is a major problem, since following WW2 they had so much power that was picked up in the fall of fascism (some of it was even handed to them by the Allies, since the Mafia helped the Allies invade Italy during the war). Believe me, they know the big picture. You should hear the rants my old Italian teacher had about the mafia, though he was of the opinion that the government was too corrupt to effectively fight them.

Chiaroscuro · Post by **Chiaroscuro** » 2006-12-11 10:22am

But why do they have to go after the entire sect of Satanists? Why don't they just prosecute the murderers? I mean, obviously murder is bad, but if you follow Satan in your own quiet way without hurting anyone I don't see the harm.
I don't quite understand what the priest's function is supposed to be. So he's familiar with the occult, great. Does he expect to have to exorcise demons from all of these people?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-12-11 10:26am

Chiaroscuro wrote:But why do they have to go after the entire sect of Satanists? Why don't they just prosecute the murderers? I mean, obviously murder is bad, but if you follow Satan in your own quiet way without hurting anyone I don't see the harm.
I don't quite understand what the priest's function is supposed to be. So he's familiar with the occult, great. Does he expect to have to exorcise demons from all of these people?

I take it you missed the article awhile back about the Catholic Church starting to train whole groups of exorcists?

Chiaroscuro · Post by **Chiaroscuro** » 2006-12-11 10:31am

I take it you missed the article awhile back about the Catholic Church starting to train whole groups of exorcists?

I take it I did. Are you serious?
...I would ask "Why??" but I take it I can find that out in the article.
An increasing number of demons in Italy, apparently... Don't they, like, believe in science over there?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-12-11 10:34am

Chiaroscuro wrote:
I take it you missed the article awhile back about the Catholic Church starting to train whole groups of exorcists?
I take it I did. Are you serious?
...I would ask "Why??" but I take it I can find that out in the article.
An increasing number of demons in Italy, apparently... Don't they, like, believe in science over there?

Article courtesy of the Telegraph

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-12-11 10:42am

Chiaroscuro wrote:
I take it you missed the article awhile back about the Catholic Church starting to train whole groups of exorcists?
I take it I did. Are you serious?
...I would ask "Why??" but I take it I can find that out in the article.
An increasing number of demons in Italy, apparently... Don't they, like, believe in science over there?

The RCC trains exorcists because, believe it or not, people still turn to abbeys when they think someone is possessed. Exorcist is a perfectly valid career choice within the Church and it is regulated like any other branch. In fact, the manual on exorcism was updated in 1999, adding extra warnings about confusing mental illnesses with demonic possession and unless I'm mistaken, the training to become an exorcist now includes an introduction to recognising mental and physical illnesses so 'possessed' people can be instructed to see a proper doctor.

(I met the exorcist of Averbode - at least I think it was the abbey of Averbode - and he seemed like a nice guy. I considered the job myself, but I wasn't enough of a people person for it).

The increasing number of demons is no such thing; the problem in Italy, it would seem, is that more and more kids like to form their little satanic death cults and end up committing crimes. Since the common element of some of these cults is their satanic imagery, the Italian police thought a priest might be helpful.

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2006-12-11 10:43am

Dartzap wrote:
Bounty wrote:
Why do you need a priest? Why not any expert on small religions? Is it just that this expert just so happens to be a priest.
Isn't much of satanism based on catholic imagery?

What, you mean old religions don't commit much crimes, cough paedophile catholic priests cough.
This is Italy. If the police went after the RCC the public outcry would be enormous.
Why bother with satanists then? I saw a report yesterday about the mafia that controls Naples, and how they have complete dominance over the local police and that the Army is on constant alert to charge into the city if the Mafia tries something even bigger than normal. I think the Italian authorities are slightly missing the bigger picture here.

The Devil you know I guess.

I take it these mafia bosses are quite good and godly then or, what's that qualification again on cults? Oh, yes, religions without political power.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-12-11 10:45am

Where is the actual proof that these are Satanists? The U.S. has had a few "Satanist scares and ritual BS," only to result in the FBI releasing a study saying it's a bunch of shit.

Satan and these so called Satanists mostly exist in the minds of paranoid morons. The claims that these people make rarely end up being true.

AMX · Post by **AMX** » 2006-12-11 11:06am

Chiaroscuro wrote:But why do they have to go after the entire sect of Satanists? Why don't they just prosecute the murderers? I mean, obviously murder is bad, but if you follow Satan in your own quiet way without hurting anyone I don't see the harm.

For the same reson Germany outlawed the entire Nazi party, rather than prosecute only those who personally gassed any jews: The crimes are not merely actions of people who happened to be members of these specific sects/the Nazi party, they are an integral part of the sect's/party's belief/doctrine.

Incidentally, that's also the flaw in mr friendly guy's analogy to paedophile priests: Those were perverted criminals who happened to be priests, and while the RCC tried to sweep the affair under the carpet, they never actively told anyone to go and rape children.

These specific sects, however, do exactly that. (Well, not *exactly* since murder is a different crime than CSA, but you get what I mean.)

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2006-12-11 11:46am

The "Beasts of Satan" thing was when four members of a black/death metal band in Italy (Beasts of Satan), they killed 3 people, including one of their own bandmembers and a nun. My understanding is they were all estranged from their disinterested parents, ridiculed and religiously persecuted at school and in the street and such.

It was the only such case, it got some publicity so now the catholic conservatives are using it to promote fear of satanism and goths, as well as remove metal cds and concerts from the area. This satanism force is more lameness in the same vain.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-12-11 12:49pm

Rye wrote:The "Beasts of Satan" thing was when four members of a black/death metal band in Italy (Beasts of Satan), they killed 3 people, including one of their own bandmembers and a nun. My understanding is they were all estranged from their disinterested parents, ridiculed and religiously persecuted at school and in the street and such.

It was the only such case, it got some publicity so now the catholic conservatives are using it to promote fear of satanism and goths, as well as remove metal cds and concerts from the area. This satanism force is more lameness in the same vain.

I hear goths eat their own children, is this true?

Otherwise, I don't have a problem with them and have been out with a couple. No fatalities either!

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-12-11 04:05pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Otherwise, I don't have a problem with them and have been out with a couple. No fatalities either!

Obviously, you have been corrupted. Bad sinner! To the re-edumacation camp with you.

Chiaroscuro · Post by **Chiaroscuro** » 2006-12-11 04:11pm

In fact, the manual on exorcism was updated in 1999, adding extra warnings about confusing mental illnesses with demonic possession and unless I'm mistaken, the training to become an exorcist now includes an introduction to recognising mental and physical illnesses so 'possessed' people can be instructed to see a proper doctor.

Well, I mean in no way to denigrate your exorcist friend, but... is there a difference between being "possessed" and mental illness?

Redleader34 · Post by **Redleader34** » 2006-12-11 04:14pm

Probaly not... but it depends on your beliefs on daemons and the like, on the OP's point, it sounds like the helsing manga or the Trinty blood series... a squad of tropers to fight the forces of Satan...

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-12-11 04:28pm

Chiaroscuro wrote:
In fact, the manual on exorcism was updated in 1999, adding extra warnings about confusing mental illnesses with demonic possession and unless I'm mistaken, the training to become an exorcist now includes an introduction to recognising mental and physical illnesses so 'possessed' people can be instructed to see a proper doctor.
Well, I mean in no way to denigrate your exorcist friend, but... is there a difference between being "possessed" and mental illness?

I don't have an exorcist friend, I just spend a few days in the abbey over the years.

And the profession of exorcist has shifted in recent years to a more general counselling job. People who end up at the abbey often just need someone to talk to. Actual exorcisms have to been specifically approved by the bishop and I don't think one of those has happened in recent memory - people are either sent to real doctors or just given a shoulder to cry on.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2006-12-11 06:33pm

If I were in the catholic church and wanted to meet a happy medium between mental illness and possession superstitions, I would merely identify all "untreatable" cases as mental illness, and focus on claiming possession when the cause was obviously hysteria or something else you can take control of with charisma rather than a whole mental hospital.

AV wrote:I hear goths eat their own children, is this true?

No, but we sacked Rome once, we can do it again if they keep this shit up.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2006-12-11 06:33pm

Superman wrote:Where is the actual proof that these are Satanists? The U.S. has had a few "Satanist scares and ritual BS," only to result in the FBI releasing a study saying it's a bunch of shit.

Yeah, too bad it was after the fucking damage had been done.

Here's a small sampling, check out the years of these people's lives that were taken from them due to "concerned parents" and the like...

Kelly Michaels, teacher's aide imprisoned for five years in New Jersey's Wee Care ritual abuse case before her 47-year sentence was overturned on appeal.

Peggy Ann Buckey and Ray Buckey, teachers accused and jailed in Ca1ifornia's landmark McMartin Preschool case--the longest, costliest trial in U.S.history.

Cheryl and Violet Amirault, mother and daughter convicted in the Massachusetts' Fells Acres Case: convictions recently overturned after 14 years imprisonment.

Bobby Fijnje l4 year-old Dutch citizen, a child-care worker tried for ritual abuse by Dade County, Florida prosecutor, Janet Reno, now U.S. Attorney General held without bail for over a year before his acquittal.

Pastor and Mrs. Roby Roberson, separated for years from their child, then tried and acquitted in the Wenatchee Washington "sex ring" scandal of false accusations.

Brenda and Scott Kniffen, sentenced to 240 years each in the Kern County, CA sex ring cases; convictions overturned this year.

Taken from here.
Janet Reno refused to admit to any hint of any sort of mistake in that Dade Co. case, BTW...

I lived down the road from Manhattan Beach when the McMartin Pre-School case broke, I knew it was nothing but rich twats in that town resenting Okie white trash long before the eventual outcome, sadly it destroyed a whole fuck of a lot of lives due to it's influence.

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » 2006-12-11 06:39pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:That is so hollywood...

Exactly what I thought, I wonder if anyone else on this 'team' fills any other classic niche; the geeky tech-guy, the smart-and-intelligent female lead, the crazy guy who likes explosives, ect.

No, but we sacked Rome once, we can do it again if they keep this shit up.

A mass of poorly-dressed, make-up wearing goth kids storming the Basilica would be funny as hell to watch on CNN.