Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
TimothyC
Of Sector 2814
Posts: 3793
Joined: 2005-03-23 05:31pm

Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by TimothyC »

Alexander Burns for the New York Times] wrote:Obama Quietly Gives Advice to 2020 Democrats, but No Endorsement

A secret meeting of former President Barack Obama’s financial backers convened in Washington early this month: Organized by David Jacobson and John Phillips, Mr. Obama’s former ambassadors to Canada and Italy, the group interviewed an array of 2020 presidential candidates and debated whether to throw their wealth behind one or two of them.

Mr. Obama had no role in the event, but it unfolded in his political shadow: As presidential hopefuls like Senators Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar and Sherrod Brown auditioned before them, the donors wondered aloud whether Mr. Obama might signal a preference in the race, according to three people briefed on the meeting, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

David Axelrod, Mr. Obama’s former chief strategist, told the group they should expect no such directive. Mr. Axelrod confirmed in an interview that he briefed the gathering, recalling: “They asked me about Obama endorsing. I said, ‘I don’t imagine he will.’”

Mr. Axelrod said he had been sharing his own perspective, not speaking as an official Obama emissary. But his forecast matches what Mr. Obama has told friends and likely presidential candidates in private: that he does not see it as his role to settle the 2020 nomination, and prefers to let the primary unfold as a contest of ideas. Michelle Obama, the former first lady, also has no plans to endorse a candidate, a person familiar with her thinking said.

Even former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. does not expect to secure Mr. Obama’s backing if he runs, according to allies of Mr. Biden’s.

Yet if Mr. Obama has all but officially taken a vow of neutrality, he remains the party’s most convincing model for success at the national level, and continues to shape the mind-set and strategy of Democratic presidential candidates.

He has counseled more than a dozen declared or likely candidates on what he believes it will take to beat President Trump, holding private talks with leading contenders like Ms. Harris, Mr. Booker and Senator Elizabeth Warren; underdogs like Pete Buttigieg, the mayor of South Bend, Ind.; and prominent figures who remain undecided on the race, like Eric H. Holder, his former attorney general, and Michael R. Bloomberg, the former mayor of New York.

During these informal conversations, usually at his office in Washington, Mr. Obama has offered a combination of supportive advice and sober warnings, cautioning candidates that running for president is a more punishing process than they could ever imagine, according to seven people who have spoken with him directly or were briefed in detail on the meetings.

Mr. Obama continues to express frustration that he did not anticipate Mr. Trump’s victory, these people said, even after years of clashing with the forces of right-wing populism as president. He has urged candidates to push back on Mr. Trump’s bleak and divisive rhetoric about economic change, and to deliver a competing message that can resonate even in Republican-leaning areas, courting rural voters and other communities that tend to distrust Democrats.

Eric Schultz, a senior adviser to Mr. Obama, said the former president was encouraged by the “diverse, experienced and principled” field of candidates taking shape, and said Mr. Obama had been “happy to speak privately with candidates seeking his guidance on the best way to lead the country.”

“President Obama counsels candidates to always show up and make their case even in areas or in front of audiences they may not necessarily win; express views and positions that reflect their genuine beliefs; and share a positive vision for the country true to their own personal story,” he said.

The discreet role Mr. Obama is taking reflects his longstanding ambivalence about acting as a partisan political leader, and has the potential to disappoint Democrats who pine for him to intercede more decisively. Known for his lack of interest in intraparty wrangling when he was president, Mr. Obama has privately voiced both an impatience to move on from politics and an urgent sense of responsibility to do what he can to thwart Mr. Trump.

Some Democrats still hope Mr. Obama might help resolve the primary in an active way, perhaps if the contest narrows to just two candidates and he believes one of them cannot beat Mr. Trump. Steve Westly, a California investor who was a major fund-raiser for Mr. Obama, said he expected the race to “come down to two or three candidates very quickly” and foresaw an opening for Mr. Obama to act.

“I am sure he feels, as an American, that he wants to make sure the Democratic Party puts up the best possible candidate,” Mr. Westly said.

Mr. Obama has indicated to candidates that he worries about the possibility of a damaging primary fight, and has urged them to avoid attacking each other in bitterly personal terms that could help Mr. Trump. He has also hinted that he sees a relatively open space for a more moderate Democrat, given the abundance of hard-charging liberals in the race.

Democrats have kept the meetings almost entirely confidential, out of deference to Mr. Obama. Beto O’Rourke, the former Texas Senate candidate, briefly described his session with the former president in an interview with Oprah Winfrey this month, recalling that Mr. Obama spoke with disarming candor about the personal strain of running for president. Mr. O’Rourke said Mr. Obama had not lobbied him to run.

“You asked if he encouraged me to; he did not,” Mr. O’Rourke said. “But he was very generous in sharing what his thought process was, leading up to that decision.”

Other candidates have declined to share details of their meetings with Mr. Obama, but invoke him reverently on the campaign trail. Mr. Booker drew laughter and applause from a crowd in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, last weekend, when he declared: “I miss Obama — and I miss her husband, too!”

The primary will represent something of a test for Mr. Obama’s brand of politics, if perhaps not of his influence within the party. He is personally revered by many Democrats, and his achievements like the Affordable Care Act, the Paris climate agreement and the regulations he imposed on banks and coal companies are seen as sacrosanct by most liberals.

But Mr. Obama’s party has also plainly moved leftward on core matters of policy since his term ended, and some factions have grown contemptuous of the consensus-seeking approach Mr. Obama took as president. The coming primary campaign may hinge in part on whether Democratic voters favor making gradual improvements to Mr. Obama’s legacy or pursuing more disruptive policy changes like enacting single-payer health care.

Mr. Obama’s doctrine of nonintervention could represent a setback, though not an unexpected one, to Mr. Biden. The former vice president and his political allies have confided to potential supporters that they do not expect Mr. Obama to issue an endorsement in the primary, for Mr. Biden or anyone else.
But the two men have discussed the race, and allies of Mr. Biden hope Mr. Obama might speak favorably about Mr. Biden’s service as his running mate and vice president, people who have spoken to Mr. Biden’s inner circle said.

Bill Russo, a spokesman for Mr. Biden, declined to comment.

In public and private, Mr. Obama has spoken admiringly about a few potential presidential candidates as they burst upon the national scene, applauding signs that a newer generation of leaders is rising in the party. He has told friends that Mr. O’Rourke and Mr. Buttigieg represent precisely that kind of generational change, and expressed deep admiration for Mitch Landrieu, the former mayor of New Orleans, for his approach to in his city.

After campaigning in Georgia last fall, Mr. Obama described [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/us/p ... ule=inline]Stacey Abrams
, the party’s nominee for governor in 2018, as one of the most impressive candidates he had encountered.

And Mr. Obama took a keen interest in Deval Patrick, the former governor of Massachusetts, when he was considering a presidential run last year. A former civil rights lawyer with moderate instincts, Mr. Patrick spoke repeatedly with Mr. Obama before announcing in December that he would not run, citing the strain a campaign would impose on his family.

Mr. Obama has spoken out selectively since leaving office, usually focusing on themes related to the integrity of the political system. He campaigned widely in the midterm elections, focusing many of his endorsements on promoting women and candidates of color, and he has taken a leading role in a group set up to fight congressional gerrymandering, the National Democratic Redistricting Committee. Mr. Obama is expected to help raise money in the coming months for the organization, said a spokesman for the group, which is helmed by Mr. Holder.

To some veteran Obama supporters, there is a certain irony to Democrats wishing that Mr. Obama would act as an old-school party leader and decree his preferences from on high.

Rufus Gifford, a top Obama fund-raiser who served as ambassador to Denmark, suggested that the diversity of the Democratic candidates was a consequence of Mr. Obama’s pathbreaking presidency. He said the 2020 field was a tribute to the former president, even if it left voters and donors struggling to parse their options.

“You look at the number of women, the racial diversity, the diversity of experience, the different levels of public service — I think a lot of that can and should be attributed to the legacy of Barack Obama,” Mr. Gifford said.
Good rundown of what's happening so far to get the thread started!

(Started with permission of Alyrium Denryle)
"I believe in the future. It is wonderful because it stands on what has been achieved." - Sergei Korolev
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Very good.

Next notable event should be the Sanders town hall on CNN Monday, unless Joe Biden should happen to declare in the next six days.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/bernie ... ement-from kamala-harris-backyard
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) landed a rather interesting endorsement on Thursday.

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) threw his support to Sanders, making him the first member of Congress to endorse a presidential candidate from a state outside his own. Khanna will serve as one of Sanders’ national campaign co-chairmen.

“Every 50 years, there is someone who can fundamentally alter the course of American politics,” Khanna said in a statement released by Sanders’ campaign. “Bernie Sanders has the chance to reorient our economic policy towards workers and communities left behind instead of corporate interests and to reorient our foreign policy to prioritize peace, diplomacy and restraint instead of war.”

The endorsement is a slight to Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) — Khanna represents a district in Harris’ Bay Area home region.

Khanna has worked to become a leading progressive voice in the House in his two terms in Congress, joining the House Progressive Caucus and regularly speaking out on foreign policy and economic issues. Khanna has partnered with Sanders a few times on legislation, sponsoring the House version of Sanders’ bills to force large corporations like Amazon to pay a living wage to workers and another bill aimed at lowering prescription drug prices.

His elevation into Sanders’ inner circle means he’ll likely serve as a leading surrogate for the senator’s campaign. Notably, three of Sanders’ four campaign co-chairs are nonwhite, a sign that Sanders is making a heavy effort to reverse his campaign’s male-dominated, heavily white 2016 campaign structure. If Sanders is going to win the Democratic nomination, he’ll have to significantly improve his 2016 performance among nonwhite and female voters. Sanders’ other co-chairs are Ohio state Sen. Nina Turner (D), who’s headed the pro-Sanders Our Revolution PAC, San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz, and Ben & Jerry’s co-founder Ben Cohen.

Khanna has legislated as a staunch progressive, but ran as a much more moderate, pro-Silicon Valley candidate in both 2016 and 2014, when he challenged then-Rep. Mike Honda (D-CA).

His support could help Sanders make some inroads in the state, though Khanna is not particularly well-known outside of Washington, D.C. and endorsements rarely matter much in terms of moving voters.
This makes Sanders the first candidate to pick up a Congressional endorsement from outside their home state (he has also been endorsed by Senator Patrick Leahy (who endorsed Hillary in 2016) and Rep. Welch of Vermont. This follows on his blowing the previous first day fundraising record out of the water (5.9 million, with the previous record being effectively a tie between him and Kamala Harris at around 1.5 million).

I'm also glad to see that he is working to reverse his campaign's reputation of being white male-dominated, though time will tell how effective, and sincere, this effort is.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Also, a quick summery of the candidates thus far, because this list is looooong, and likely enough to grow longer.

At present, the declared candidates (either opening an exploratory committee, or definitely committed to running) include:

Democrats:

Senator Bernie Sanders (Independent, but has stated his intention to run as a Democrat).
Senator Amy Klobuchar.
Senator Elizabeth Warren.
Senator Kamala Harris.
Senator Corey Booker.
Senator Kristen Gillibrand.
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard.
Secretary Julian Castro (former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development under Obama).

Republicans:

Traitor In Chief Donald Trump (incumbent).
Governor William Weld (former Gov. of Massachusetts).

There's also John McAfee. I'm not sure what party (if any) he's running for, though by his own admission its not a serious campaign.

Others considered likely to run/publicly contemplating running include:

Vice President Joe Biden (Democrat).
Former Starbucks CEO Howard Schlutz (Independent).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12749
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by His Divine Shadow »

You got an uphill battle:
https://twitter.com/sunrisemvmt/status/ ... 0649107458

This kind of boomer shit ain't gonna get anybody out of the couch.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by FaxModem1 »

His Divine Shadow wrote: 2019-02-23 02:18am You got an uphill battle:
https://twitter.com/sunrisemvmt/status/ ... 0649107458

This kind of boomer shit ain't gonna get anybody out of the couch.
CNN
Dianne Feinstein's climate change discussion with schoolchildren gets heated
CNN Digital Expansion 2018, Caroline Kelly
By Caroline Kelly, CNN

Updated 9:35 PM ET, Fri February 22, 2019

(CNN)Sen. Dianne Feinstein clashed Friday with a group of children over climate change policy, criticizing their requests that she back the Green New Deal, accusing them of presenting an ultimatum and contrasting their inability to vote with her three decades in office.

The exchange comes as moderate Democrats grapple with the Green New Deal, a 10-year plan to mitigate climate change championed by progressives such as Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York.
In a video posted on Facebook by the Sunrise Movement, a youth climate-change advocacy group, more than a dozen children and several adults meet with the senator to present her a letter they wrote and ask her to vote yes on the deal. The California Democrat argues that the policy is unworkable and says she doesn't agree with it.
"There's reasons why I can't, 'cause there's no way to pay for it," she says, adding, "I don't agree with what the resolution says. That's part of it."
"That resolution will not pass the Senate, and you can take that back to whoever sent you here," she says, citing that the deal doesn't have a single Republican in favor of the proposal and "the key to good legislation is to tailor something that you write so that it can pass, and you can get a step ahead."
When a girl urges her to vote yes anyway, Feinstein replies, "I may do that ... but it's not a good resolution."
In a statement Friday night about the confrontation, Feinstein said she "always welcomes the opportunity to hear from Californians who feel passionately about this issue and it remains a top priority of mine."
"Unfortunately, it was a brief meeting but I want the children to know they were heard loud and clear. I have been and remain committed to doing everything I can to enact real, meaningful climate change legislation," Feinstein said.
"We had a spirited discussion and I presented the group with my draft resolution that provides specific responses to the climate change crisis, which I plan to introduce soon."
The conversation at times grew heated, especially when Feinstein dismissed the group's request due to their tone and their youth.
A young woman tells Feinstein she's "looking at the faces of the people who will be living with these consequences" of climate change.
"I've been doing this for 30 years. I know what I'm doing," Feinstein says. "You come in here and you say, 'It has to be my way or the highway.' I don't respond to that."
"I've gotten elected. I just ran," she continues. "I was elected by almost a million-vote plurality, and I know what I'm doing. So, you know, maybe people should listen a little bit."
In the video, Feinstein also asks a girl how old she is as the girl says politicians should listen to the people they represent. The girl replies that she is 16.
"Well, you didn't vote for me," the senator says.
Later, a young woman stresses the need for a climate plan with "bold, transformative action," and Feinstein replies, "Well, you know better than I do."
"So I think one day you should run for the Senate, and then you do it your way. But in the meantime, I just won a big election," the senator adds.
When Feinstein tries to conclude the meeting, a woman says the children "have decades of life that they hope to still have, and your leadership is so beautifully, beautifully possible," the senator replies, "That doesn't work with me, thank you."
A woman urges the children to read the letter aloud.
Once most of the children exit, several women stay and calmly chat with Feinstein. One of them says voting to support the deal is important even though it "isn't something that's aimed at passing right now" and the 16-year-old inquires about internship opportunities in Feinstein's office.
I think this is something Democrats who are more moderate are going to have to realize is that their base is leaning more leftward, and want action, as it seems(real or not, perceived or not) that the Democrats have been mostly sitting on their hands the past couple of decades as opposed to making real change.

She says She knows what she's doing, but what she seems to be doing is keeping her seat, not really going forward, but keeping her seat. That is important, but she'll lose votes that way if she's seen as impotent at best, and apathetic at worst.
Image
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I doubt Feinstein's seat is in any danger. What I'm worried about is stuff like this depressing youth turnout in closer districts. She may keep her seat, but be a weight dragging the party as a whole down.

Not that her attitude, offensive as it is, is an excuse for not voting Democrat, when the stakes are literally "will fascists control the most powerful nation on Earth?"
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by FaxModem1 »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-02-23 02:53am I doubt Feinstein's seat is in any danger. What I'm worried about is stuff like this depressing youth turnout in closer districts. She may keep her seat, but be a weight dragging the party as a whole down.

Not that her attitude, offensive as it is, is an excuse for not voting Democrat, when the stakes are literally "will fascists control the most powerful nation on Earth?"
And that attitude is something moderate Democrats count on when it comes to their dispirited voters, "What are you going to do, vote Republican?"
Image
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-02-23 02:59am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-02-23 02:53am I doubt Feinstein's seat is in any danger. What I'm worried about is stuff like this depressing youth turnout in closer districts. She may keep her seat, but be a weight dragging the party as a whole down.

Not that her attitude, offensive as it is, is an excuse for not voting Democrat, when the stakes are literally "will fascists control the most powerful nation on Earth?"
And that attitude is something moderate Democrats count on when it comes to their dispirited voters, "What are you going to do, vote Republican?"
True, but that doesn't change the facts- realistically, the next President is going to be a Democrat, or a neo-fascist. The next Congress will be Democrat, or collaborators of a neo-fascist. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. If some people want to stay home or protest vote or whatever and call that principle, then they can at least be honest about what they're doing and what the consequences could be, rather than trying to wash their hands of the outcome.

I'll push for progressives in the primaries. But when the general roles around, I will have only one priority: keeping the country (and the world) out of the hands of despotic lunatics.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by FaxModem1 »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-02-23 03:02am
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-02-23 02:59am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-02-23 02:53am I doubt Feinstein's seat is in any danger. What I'm worried about is stuff like this depressing youth turnout in closer districts. She may keep her seat, but be a weight dragging the party as a whole down.

Not that her attitude, offensive as it is, is an excuse for not voting Democrat, when the stakes are literally "will fascists control the most powerful nation on Earth?"
And that attitude is something moderate Democrats count on when it comes to their dispirited voters, "What are you going to do, vote Republican?"
True, but that doesn't change the facts- realistically, the next President is going to be a Democrat, or a neo-fascist. The next Congress will be Democrat, or collaborators of a neo-fascist. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. If some people want to stay home or protest vote or whatever and call that principle, then they can at least be honest about what they're doing and what the consequences could be, rather than trying to wash their hands of the outcome.

I'll push for progressives in the primaries. But when the general roles around, I will have only one priority: keeping the country (and the world) out of the hands of despotic lunatics.
I'm sure plenty of voters will vote Democrat just to get the Republicans out of office.

But, and here's the key thing, the Democrats who are more moderate need to realize that their voter base is just waiting for leadership. I hope the Democrats are learning that they can't take their voters for granted. They need a big platform to energize the base, get them talking, get them excited. Same way that the big words of the Republicans in 2015 and 2016 were 'Build a Wall' and 'Lock her Up'. It's why there are so many liberal candidates in the primary already.

People are so thirsty for real leadership right now that they'll take what they can get. They're so thirsty already that they'll drink the sand.

Right now, I think those words are 'Green New Deal'.
Image
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12749
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by His Divine Shadow »

FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-02-23 02:43am I think this is something Democrats who are more moderate are going to have to realize is that their base is leaning more leftward, and want action, as it seems(real or not, perceived or not) that the Democrats have been mostly sitting on their hands the past couple of decades as opposed to making real change.

She says She knows what she's doing, but what she seems to be doing is keeping her seat, not really going forward, but keeping her seat. That is important, but she'll lose votes that way if she's seen as impotent at best, and apathetic at worst.
I think it's just not how realistic the new green deal is, how likely they can achieve any or all of it. But damn it they need to offer a vision like what AOC has done, they're still in the mode of "everything is fine with the system, just need a little tweaking" mode. It doesn't motivate. So you need visionaries with glorious dreams of a better future, even if they fall short in the end, well fuck, at least they're reaching for something.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I do think we need to aim high. There's no point running away from the Left- the Republicans will brand us socialists and then embrace fascism whether we push bold Leftist policies or not. Might as well own the label and stand for something bold and innovative.

The electorate likes something new, flashy, and daring. It does not like weakness, or even the perception of weakness.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7954
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by ray245 »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-02-23 11:12pm I do think we need to aim high. There's no point running away from the Left- the Republicans will brand us socialists and then embrace fascism whether we push bold Leftist policies or not. Might as well own the label and stand for something bold and innovative.

The electorate likes something new, flashy, and daring. It does not like weakness, or even the perception of weakness.
That's part of the appeal of Trump for many people. He can project the image of being something "new, flashy and daring" even when he's saying or doing stupid things.

Charisma is the key to winning the election.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15769
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by Knife »

ray245 wrote: 2019-02-24 01:47pm
That's part of the appeal of Trump for many people. He can project the image of being something "new, flashy and daring" even when he's saying or doing stupid things.

Charisma is the key to winning the election.
Sure, I've often described Trump and his policy proposals as a used car salesman gimmick. And I do think a lot of people fell for it in 2016. Now, 2 years on, I don't think a lot of those people think they got a good deal and instead got a lemon. I'm not so sure they will go for round 2.

Granted, for a general sense, the GOP is full of people who are authoritarian and/or want authoritarianism and will vote GOP in all elections, but there were plenty of moderates, independents, and others who voted Trump in 16 and probably won't again. Charisma is key if the actual person is unknown. Once people know you're a jackass, charisma comes off as swarmy.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7954
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by ray245 »

Knife wrote: 2019-02-24 03:01pm Sure, I've often described Trump and his policy proposals as a used car salesman gimmick. And I do think a lot of people fell for it in 2016. Now, 2 years on, I don't think a lot of those people think they got a good deal and instead got a lemon. I'm not so sure they will go for round 2.

Granted, for a general sense, the GOP is full of people who are authoritarian and/or want authoritarianism and will vote GOP in all elections, but there were plenty of moderates, independents, and others who voted Trump in 16 and probably won't again. Charisma is key if the actual person is unknown. Once people know you're a jackass, charisma comes off as swarmy.
Don't underestimate a good salesman. Part of their job is to make sure you believe you didn't regret your decision and come back again. Trump is very good at that. 4 years of Trump is not enough to get people sick and tired of him.

I think you've underestimated just how much people can be sway by charisma rather than actual popular policies. Obama's massive charisma helped him a massive deal in securing the elections.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
GrosseAdmiralFox
Padawan Learner
Posts: 481
Joined: 2019-01-20 01:28pm

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by GrosseAdmiralFox »

Actually it should be noted that with what has been coming out of the Trump-Russia investigation, 2016 illegitimate and what has come out has painted a rather frightening picture...
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15769
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by Knife »

ray245 wrote: 2019-02-24 06:16pm

Don't underestimate a good salesman. Part of their job is to make sure you believe you didn't regret your decision and come back again. Trump is very good at that. 4 years of Trump is not enough to get people sick and tired of him.

I think you've underestimated just how much people can be sway by charisma rather than actual popular policies. Obama's massive charisma helped him a massive deal in securing the elections.
Problem with a used car salesman and his pitch is eventually you get home and learn your car is a piece of shit. Same with Trump. A lot of those peeps he conned into voting for him are not liking what they bought.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Knife wrote: 2019-02-27 12:05am
ray245 wrote: 2019-02-24 06:16pm

Don't underestimate a good salesman. Part of their job is to make sure you believe you didn't regret your decision and come back again. Trump is very good at that. 4 years of Trump is not enough to get people sick and tired of him.

I think you've underestimated just how much people can be sway by charisma rather than actual popular policies. Obama's massive charisma helped him a massive deal in securing the elections.
Problem with a used car salesman and his pitch is eventually you get home and learn your car is a piece of shit. Same with Trump. A lot of those peeps he conned into voting for him are not liking what they bought.
But far too many aren't- whether because they're too stubborn/prideful to admit they made a bad call, or because they didn't really care about whether he was going to make the economy work for the middle class or drain the swamp or whatever- they just wanted a white man who would be a dick towards women and minorities in power, and Trump has delivered on that much.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
U.P. Cinnabar
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3845
Joined: 2016-02-05 08:11pm
Location: Aboard the RCS Princess Cecile

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by U.P. Cinnabar »

The Romulan Republic wrote:But far too many aren't.
Because this is the America they wanted all along, an America where dicks are free to be real dicks, and, there's nothing to stop them. They knew they were buying a lemon, and didn't care, as long as that lemon got them what they wanted in the long run.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
—29th Scroll, 6th Verse of Ape Law
"Indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter. The uproarious laughter between the two, and their having fun at my expense.”
---Doctor Christine Blasey-Ford
houser2112
Padawan Learner
Posts: 464
Joined: 2006-04-07 07:21am
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by houser2112 »

I would contend that Trump is not a lemon in their eyes, but a peach.
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16310
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by Gandalf »

Knife wrote: 2019-02-27 12:05amProblem with a used car salesman and his pitch is eventually you get home and learn your car is a piece of shit. Same with Trump. A lot of those peeps he conned into voting for him are not liking what they bought.
I'm curious, is there polling which deals with that question of "Trump regret?"
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15769
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by Knife »

Some, a couple behind pay walls. Looks like 10-20% of Trump voters may swap votes. Though 10% may have been enough in the rust belt.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... ch-in-2020
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Well, if that happens, he's done. Short of the level of fraud we see in dictatorship (which would be obvious enough to cause major riots nationwide), Trump isn't overcome that kind of loss of support.

Unless Schultz or another Independent peels off 10 or 20 percent of Democrats or something. That's my biggest fear.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
TimothyC
Of Sector 2814
Posts: 3793
Joined: 2005-03-23 05:31pm

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by TimothyC »

Sydney Ember and Jonathan Martin for the NYT wrote:Senator Sherrod Brown, the populist Ohio Democrat known for extolling the “dignity of work,” announced Thursday that he would not seek the Democratic nomination for president, ceding the primary field to other left-leaning candidates with broader national appeal.

His exit comes as better-known Democrats like former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. prepare to announce their own plans for 2020, and as the field itself has swelled to 14 candidates, including fellow liberal senators like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

Allies of Mr. Brown said on Thursday that his decision to forgo a 2020 bid had nothing to do with the signs that Mr. Biden is preparing to enter the race. Rather, they said, Mr. Brown ultimately resolved that he was content in the Senate and lacked the consuming drive to become president. And there were obvious practical obstacles to the 2020 nomination for a 66-year-old white man with a mix of liberal and moderate views and a relatively modest donor base. Indeed, for Mr. Brown, the popularity and fund-raising strength of Mr. Sanders, a fellow populist, were obstacles that were at least as big as any Mr. Biden might present.

Speaking to reporters between votes in the Capitol on Thursday, Mr. Brown quickly noted that he “didn’t have a lifelong ambition to be president.” Though he argued that there was a “path for me,” highlighting his progressive credentials, he said he felt tugged to remain in the Senate, a job he relishes more than some of his colleagues who covet the presidency.

Mr. Brown, who was a finalist in the 2016 vice-presidential sweepstakes, also dismissed the prospect of serving in that role in 2020 but said whoever the nominee is should compete for Ohio. “I’m not even interested in thinking about that,” he said about the vice presidency.

Some Democrats had seen Mr. Brown as a compelling possibility, even in a packed Democratic contest, because he was the only major Democrat last November to win a statewide seat in Ohio. The bet was that his success in a Republican-leaning battleground state would translate to broad support.

In recent weeks, he had embarked on a listening tour of early primary states that included stops in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, which had been widely viewed as an indication he was seriously leaning toward running.

But while Mr. Brown, with his signature gravelly voice and populist rhetoric, generated some initial excitement — especially among those Democrats who believe defeating President Trump depends largely on the party’s ability to win in the Midwest — his road to the nomination seemed almost hopelessly long. Neither well known outside of his home state nor particularly fiery, he likely would have struggled to stand out from a crowded field that included dynamic rising stars and more established politicians.

And even he seemed to acknowledge recently that he might have trouble competing for the nomination. Asked in Selma, Ala., last weekend about his chances in such a racially diverse field of Democratic candidates, Mr. Brown ticked off his progressive bona fides. But then he pointed to his face. “I can change a lot of things,” he said, “but I can’t change this part of me, right?”

Still, Mr. Brown has long championed working-class issues that have resonated in Ohio’s conservative quarters while also supporting liberal social causes like women’s reproductive rights. Though he splits with President Trump on almost every issue, he is often aligned with him on trade, with an openness to tariffs and other measures billed as protecting American manufacturing jobs that are at odds with his own party.

But it was his nearly seven-point victory in November for his third term in the Senate that suggested to his supporters that he could be singularly positioned to win back not just Ohio but the key Midwestern and Rust Belt states that Mr. Trump flipped in 2016: Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Mr. Brown ran roughly 10 percentage points better than Hillary Clinton did in Ohio two years earlier.

His decision not to run will deprive the field of a candidate who enjoys deep ties to organized labor and could make it easier for Mr. Biden to win over some unions. But Mr. Brown said he had not talked to the former vice president about his decision.

“His getting in or out had zero impact on this,” he said.

Mr. Biden is not the only candidate who could benefit from the exit of the Ohio populist. Without Mr. Brown, Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota is the lone Midwesterner elected to statewide office in the race.

An Ohio state legislator who hung out at union halls in his free time, Mr. Brown was first elected to the House of Representatives in 1992. One of his first votes was against the North American Free Trade Agreement. He also voted against the Defense of Marriage Act and against the Iraq war.

Elected to the Senate in 2006, he has criticized Wall Street banks and defended the Affordable Care Act, refusing to accept congressional health care until it passed.

“I don’t buy the left or right,” he said after his victory in the midterms. “You have to be authentic about whom you fight for and what you fight against. That’s just who I am.”
Sign Up for On Politics With Lisa Lerer

A spotlight on the people reshaping our politics. A conversation with voters across the country. And a guiding hand through the endless news cycle, telling you what you really need to know.

Ohio born and bred, with a tangle of unruly gray hair, Mr. Brown is often praised for projecting an authenticity that at times comes across as almost aggressively disheveled. He is an ardent fan of the Cleveland Indians, known to wear the team’s sweatshirt even on the campaign trail. He talks frequently about how his suits are made just miles from where he lives in Cleveland. On his lapel, he wears a canary pin that a steelworker gave him years ago.

But although Mr. Brown was considered a possible running mate for Mrs. Clinton in 2016, he is not well known on the national stage — especially compared to other potential candidates including Mr. Sanders and Mr. Biden. As part of his decision-making process, he set off on what he called his “Dignity of Work” tour, billing it as an opportunity to listen to voters and spread his signature message across the country.

“The dignity of work is a value that unites us all,” he said in a statement announcing the tour. “It’s what I fight for every day representing the people of Ohio, and it’s what we will fight for together on this tour around the country.”
Darn.
"I believe in the future. It is wonderful because it stands on what has been achieved." - Sergei Korolev
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Democratic Presidential Primary 2020 Super Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I think its for the best. If we want a progressive nominee, then we need the progressives and "anti-establishment" types to unite behind one candidate, not split their vote between several choices. The field was already over-crowded with Bernie, Warren, and Gabbard* in play. Its just as well that Brown is sitting this one out. Hopefully he'll throw his support behind either Bernie or Warren (whichever looks likelier to win).


*Note that I regard Gabbard as a possible closet Trumper/Putinist, or at least a bigot and apologist for dictators, in faux progressive clothing. But she is definitely angling for a chunk of Bernie and Warren's base.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Post Reply