The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

[Crown]

Fucking hell this board.

Love it or leave it.

Channelling your GW Bush; you're either with us or against us?

[Flagg]

Half of America has been conditioned for decades to love bullies, to applaud the boot stamping on the human face so long as the face being stamped on isn't theirs.

The nation still has the potential to be systematically better than that. Parts of it are. But making the whole nation better is going to take time, and commitment, and movements that know what they're trying to accomplish and are outspoken about getting there.

Whatever happens to Trump's approval ratings, my concern is that by 2020, the Republicans will have had four years to pass sweeping voter ID laws, voting restrictions, and restrictions on the press, possibly revoke birthright citizenship and deport millions of voters from Democratic leaning demographics, and appoint justices all the way to the Supreme Court who will sign off on the preceding.

Suffice to say that I do not think having control of the government will render them as suddenly, sharply, phenomenally omnipotent as you appear to believe. If serious efforts are made, preparing well in advance, a great deal can be done to neutralize the effects of voter ID and voting restriction laws.

Mass revocation of citizenship, in particular, would require a constitutional amendment, and that is not within the level of power the Republicans now possess. Certainly not in two years' time, nor in four.

The key is going to be to start organizing NOW. To get people galvanized to vote NOW, to make sure that they are prepkared, with their paperwork in order, to act when the election comes. Registering people to vote on-the-day-of isn't going to cut it anymore. But it's hardly beyond the organizational powers of a determined left to deal with that reality.

Andrew Jackson ignored a SCOTUS order. And since Rapist Donnie Douchebag is going to be filling the vacancy he may well be able to get away with plenty.

[Flagg]

Fucking hell this board.

Love it or leave it.

Channelling your GW Bush; you're either with us or against us?

No, channeling dipshits like you throughout the ages.

[Crown]

Channelling your GW Bush; you're either with us or against us?

No, channeling dipshits like you throughout the ages.

Flagg, I love you. Even if you do not.

[Flagg]

If you want some optimism, here's the closest you're going to get.

<snip>

Game on.

Yeah, TYT will save us, I love Cenk's moral outrage. He's funded by the slave state of Qatar but, he's morally outraged.



(if he's no longer funded by Aljazeera, correct me)

He's an Armenian Genocide denier, too.

[Crown]

He's an Armenian Genocide denier, too.

I always thought that was an urban myth, I've never seen anything myself that could lend credibility to that claim (beyond the linking of the name 'TYT' of course), you sincere?

[Simon_Jester]

Andrew Jackson ignored a SCOTUS order. And since Rapist Donnie Douchebag is going to be filling the vacancy he may well be able to get away with plenty.

The kind of nation-changing power required to, say, deport millions of people who already have citizenship... That kind of power is about structure, not about individuals. Structures like that only function as long as all or nearly all the people involved agree on how the structure is supposed to function.

Jackson ignored a Supreme Court order when the US was two generations old and the relationships between the presidency, Congress, the Supreme Court, and the state governments were far more in flux than they are now. There are a lot of people both in and out of Trump's party who will drag their feet both on supporting and on implementing things that are overtly, obviously, blatantly a declaration of war on the concept of a functional democracy.

Not every Trump voter is a fascist goon waiting for an excuse to end meaningful elections in the United States. Certainly, not every person in American law enforcement or the armed forces who would have to help fascist goons for them to succeed is themselves such a goon.

Nobody who fails to remember that fact is going to have the remotest chance of understanding, let alone influencing, events in the next four years.

[The Romulan Republic]

No one is saying that every Trump voter, or every American soldier or law enforcement officer, is a fascist, so please don't straw man. And yes, their are safe guards.

But at the same time, out democratic institutions have already been badly eroded in many respects, and we would not be the first country to move from democracy to authoritarianism.

Nothing make such an outcome more likely than the self-satisfied complacency of assuming that it can never happen.

[Thanas]

He's an Armenian Genocide denier, too.

I always thought that was an urban myth, I've never seen anything myself that could lend credibility to that claim (beyond the linking of the name 'TYT' of course), you sincere?

No it is true about him. Can't remember but I saw him denying it on video - that is also why I no longer watch him.

[Crown]

Right, I obviously want to have a conversation beyond the hyperbole of America just elected 'LITERALLY HITLER', so I should contribute to that.

Putting aside everything about these two candidates for a moment I want to gauge what are peoples feelings on the following matters.

Are you all comfortable with the fact that during this election cycle the fourth estate completely failed in its obligation of impartiality in reporting, to completely becoming the mouthpiece of one of the candidates? This goes beyond being tough on Trump (which is what they should do), it goes into close collusion between themselves and the Hillary campaign. The constant selective editing of information via editorialisation (or in some cases omission of all the facts). The clear financial link between the Clinton campaign Time Warner (owner of HBO and CNN), also Fox (and I think MSNBC) which obviously created a conflict of interest, and the pipeline of insiders moving between media and the Clinton campaign.

Also, are we all comfortable with the fifth estate not only engaging in all of the above, but actively using their platforms (Facebook, Twitter - although lol at their stock now - and Reddit) to not only moderate what people could see but actively removing or burying anything that they could? Basically a cabal of very few and very rich tech giants were trying to shape public dialogue.

[aerius]

And I can't fathom how anyone could find Rapist Donnie Douchebag "likeable". He exudes slimeball jackass. And while I agree that Clinton wasn't likable, it was in a "politician" kind of way, if that makes any sense.

That's because you don't understand what pickup artists call "game".

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/08 ... p-on-game/

When Trump raised his hand at the debate as the only person who would not pledge to back the eventual Republican candidate, he sent a message to the party that the only way they can win is by nominating him. And people like to win. It is in their nature.

Trump is a winner. This is why he bugs cuckservatives so much.

And what about Trump’s habit of bluster and self-complimenting? Every time he opens his mouth he is saying something about the Trump brand being fabulous or amazing or great. The rational part of your brain thinks this guy is an obnoxious, exaggerating braggart. But the subconscious parts of your brain (the parts that make most of your decisions) only remember that something about that guy was fabulous, amazing and great.

Game concept: DHVing (demonstrating higher value).

Trump played the part of the jerkboy asshole to perfection. As I noted in the other thread, Trump gets that elections aren't won on facts & logic, they're won on emotion. What he did was get enough people emotionally invested in his brand & message. He did for the Republicans what Obama did for the Democrats 8 years ago (remember Hope & Change?); he sold a brand & message to a large number of neglected people who otherwise wouldn't vote and got them to the polls. Different message, different people, different methods, same results.

[The Romulan Republic]

From Senator Sanders' Facebook page, in case anyone is interested in his response to last night's result:

Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer.
To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.

Personally I think he's giving the deplorables a bit too much credit, but I suppose he's trying to put the best spin he can on a terrible situation.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Seriously though I do feel for all those armed forces personnel who are certain to die, directly or otherwise if America no longer counterbalances Russian aggression.

Because Russia has attacked US forces... how many times in history? I mean, seriously, get a grip.

What I mean is:

• The direct casualties that will inevitably result when Trump either starts another Iraq/Afghanistan/etc, or puts US boots on the ground like some supporters are wanting him to do vs IS.
  
  The indirect (i.e. non-US) ones that come about when Trump allows the Russians to do whatever the fuck they want in Eastern Europe, which is highly likely if he pulls the USA out of NATO.

[Crown]

From Senator Sanders' Facebook page, in case anyone is interested in his response to last night's result:

Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer.
To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.

Personally I think he's giving the deplorables a bit too much credit, but I suppose he's trying to put the best spin he can on a terrible situation.

Just so you know; that's not having the effect you would like it to.

EDIT :: He fucking campaigned under it, and it won him more people.



At some point you might have to stop doing stupid shit if you want to win.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time showing the people who elected a groping, bigoted crook any respect. So sue me.

[Crown]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time showing the people who elected a groping, bigoted crook any respect. So sue me.

Keep losing then.

[Gandalf]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time showing the people who elected a groping, bigoted crook any respect. So sue me.

Does that work when pointed at people who voted for "we tortured some folks" Obama, Lord of the Drones?

[aerius]

Putting aside everything about these two candidates for a moment I want to gauge what are peoples feelings on the following matters.

Are you all comfortable with the fact that during this election cycle the fourth estate completely failed in its obligation of impartiality in reporting, to completely becoming the mouthpiece of one of the candidates? This goes beyond being tough on Trump (which is what they should do), it goes into close collusion between themselves and the Hillary campaign. The constant selective editing of information via editorialisation (or in some cases omission of all the facts). The clear financial link between the Clinton campaign Time Warner (owner of HBO and CNN), also Fox (and I think MSNBC) which obviously created a conflict of interest, and the pipeline of insiders moving between media and the Clinton campaign.

Also, are we all comfortable with the fifth estate not only engaging in all of the above, but actively using their platforms (Facebook, Twitter - although lol at their stock now - and Reddit) to not only moderate what people could see but actively removing or burying anything that they could? Basically a cabal of very few and very rich tech giants were trying to shape public dialogue.

I wrote a comment about this on Facebook somewhere, in short, the blatant editorializing and selective information control is by far the scariest thing to come out of this election. I've known for a long time now that the mainstream media are bunch of crooked fucks who seek to create their own narratives (Trayvon Martin case where they edited the 911 calls and security camera footage to make Zimmerman look 100% guilty), but this election cycle took it to a whole new level. It's literally like the Bond villain in Tomorrow Never Dies where they seek to make their own news by manipulating global events rather than actually reporting on actual news.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time showing the people who elected a groping, bigoted crook any respect. So sue me.

Does that work when pointed at people who voted for "we tortured some folks" Obama, Lord of the Drones?

I can't say that I agree with everything Obama has done. I think that he has engaged in some morally questionable tactics in the name of national security, and that domestically he has sometimes shown a lack of spine against the far Right.

But he is not at all comparable to the monstrosity that is Trump.

[Flagg]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time showing the people who elected a groping, bigoted crook any respect. So sue me.

Does that work when pointed at people who voted for "we tortured some folks" Obama, Lord of the Drones?

I'm sick of pointing this out, but it was clear in 2006 that the torturers were never going to be prosecuted. That's on Nancy Pelosi. So anyone who voted for Obama expecting there to be prosecutions just wasn't paying attention. But the fact is that (as far as we know) he stopped torture and he did make a concerted attempt to close Gitmo.

Personally I'm of 2 minds regarding that decision. On the one hand there weren't trials going on taking up "space" that was ultimately used to get the ACA passed. On the other, with there being no consequences, the same psychopaths who engaged in Bush era torture will likely be engaging in Donnie Douchebag era torture. So it was a trade off and one that shouldn't have "needed" to be made.

[Dominus Atheos]

Right, I obviously want to have a conversation beyond the hyperbole of America just elected 'LITERALLY HITLER', so I should contribute to that.

Putting aside everything about these two candidates for a moment I want to gauge what are peoples feelings on the following matters.

Are you all comfortable with the fact that during this election cycle the fourth estate completely failed in its obligation of impartiality in reporting, to completely becoming the mouthpiece of one of the candidates? This goes beyond being tough on Trump (which is what they should do), it goes into close collusion between themselves and the Hillary campaign. The constant selective editing of information via editorialisation (or in some cases omission of all the facts). The clear financial link between the Clinton campaign Time Warner (owner of HBO and CNN), also Fox (and I think MSNBC) which obviously created a conflict of interest, and the pipeline of insiders moving between media and the Clinton campaign.

Also, are we all comfortable with the fifth estate not only engaging in all of the above, but actively using their platforms (Facebook, Twitter - although lol at their stock now - and Reddit) to not only moderate what people could see but actively removing or burying anything that they could? Basically a cabal of very few and very rich tech giants were trying to shape public dialogue.

That didn't happen, except in the alternate reality the hard right lives in. Their reporting was driven by ratings. Whatever got more people to click was what they reported on.

[Flagg]

And I can't fathom how anyone could find Rapist Donnie Douchebag "likeable". He exudes slimeball jackass. And while I agree that Clinton wasn't likable, it was in a "politician" kind of way, if that makes any sense.

That's because you don't understand what pickup artists call "game".

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/08 ... p-on-game/

When Trump raised his hand at the debate as the only person who would not pledge to back the eventual Republican candidate, he sent a message to the party that the only way they can win is by nominating him. And people like to win. It is in their nature.

Trump is a winner. This is why he bugs cuckservatives so much.

And what about Trump’s habit of bluster and self-complimenting? Every time he opens his mouth he is saying something about the Trump brand being fabulous or amazing or great. The rational part of your brain thinks this guy is an obnoxious, exaggerating braggart. But the subconscious parts of your brain (the parts that make most of your decisions) only remember that something about that guy was fabulous, amazing and great.

Game concept: DHVing (demonstrating higher value).

Trump played the part of the jerkboy asshole to perfection. As I noted in the other thread, Trump gets that elections aren't won on facts & logic, they're won on emotion. What he did was get enough people emotionally invested in his brand & message. He did for the Republicans what Obama did for the Democrats 8 years ago (remember Hope & Change?); he sold a brand & message to a large number of neglected people who otherwise wouldn't vote and got them to the polls. Different message, different people, different methods, same results.

Too bad those people are the type that don't find the KKK endorsing him troubling and only get disgusted at attacking a gold star family if they're Lilly white.

[Flagg]

Right, I obviously want to have a conversation beyond the hyperbole of America just elected 'LITERALLY HITLER', so I should contribute to that.

Putting aside everything about these two candidates for a moment I want to gauge what are peoples feelings on the following matters.

Are you all comfortable with the fact that during this election cycle the fourth estate completely failed in its obligation of impartiality in reporting, to completely becoming the mouthpiece of one of the candidates? This goes beyond being tough on Trump (which is what they should do), it goes into close collusion between themselves and the Hillary campaign. The constant selective editing of information via editorialisation (or in some cases omission of all the facts). The clear financial link between the Clinton campaign Time Warner (owner of HBO and CNN), also Fox (and I think MSNBC) which obviously created a conflict of interest, and the pipeline of insiders moving between media and the Clinton campaign.

Also, are we all comfortable with the fifth estate not only engaging in all of the above, but actively using their platforms (Facebook, Twitter - although lol at their stock now - and Reddit) to not only moderate what people could see but actively removing or burying anything that they could? Basically a cabal of very few and very rich tech giants were trying to shape public dialogue.

That didn't happen, except in the alternate reality the hard right lives in. Their reporting was driven by ratings. Whatever got more people to click was what they reported on.

I had a problem with Donnie Douchebag's surrogates lying and when called on said lies just laughing and saying "well it worked".

[Flagg]

He's an Armenian Genocide denier, too.

I always thought that was an urban myth, I've never seen anything myself that could lend credibility to that claim (beyond the linking of the name 'TYT' of course), you sincere?

No it is true about him. Can't remember but I saw him denying it on video - that is also why I no longer watch him.

Yeah, it's been disappeared because I've been looking for it most of the afternoon and can't find it. But that's the exact same reason I stopped watching them when they were on Al Gores TV network. That and his constant whining about Al Sharpton (granted, notorious Obama dick-rider) "stealing" his job.

[TimothyC]

Well, that was fun. Now I get a year down while the Ohio GOP gears up for the 2018 Governor's race and Senate race.

Ah yes, the Alt. Right. I suppose that would make you the Ctrl. Left? Whose the Del. Middle?

Silly Crown, it's Del. Left and Ctrl. Middle. Just look at your keyboard!

Edit: or I can't tell my left from my right.