Michael Brown Case

[Terralthra]

Imagine if blacks paid this much attention to inter-black murders which are a dozen a day. There would not be time for anything but the latest unprovoked murder of innocents. Good to see the cop walk free, he did the right thing. Pity his life will be ruined, if he was any good at rapping he would have been a hero instead.

I wonder what will happen with these looted areas? I suspect the white flight will be massive from Ferguson in the coming years.

Maybe you don't notice blacks taking action about intraracial crime because, surprise, it's targeted at other people of color, and involves them, not you. Not to mention the massive tu quoque in which you are engaging. "Black people kill other black people, why do they care so much that a white person killed a black person?" I mean, pro-tip, you're most likely to be killed by someone you know, and practically speaking, America is a very segregated nation, so if you look at crime statistics, both blacks and whites are more likely to be killed by someone within their own race, your hilarious "dozen a day" ass-pull notwithstanding. Guess how many homicides there were in Ferguson in 2014 before Mike Brown was killed: zero.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but on average, a white police officer has shot and killed a black person twice a week for the past ~10 years. So maybe there's more of a problem there than you'd like to admit.

The simple fact is that this case, among many many others, indicates that the simple truth, especially for young black men, is that if you get into an altercation with a police officer, they are within their rights to kill you.

[Beowulf]

I decided "ah, fuck it" and decided to look up stuff about hopping state lines after committing a crime. USA Today found that there are quite a few (over 186,000 suspects) that went into another state after allegedly committing a crime and the police in those sates are disinclined to do shit about it.

So... This indicates that crossing state lines can be just as effective as fucking off to Mexico, Brazil, or Russia. Unless people with jurisdiction there feel like it, they don't have to do shit. Maybe this makes things look a little bit worse now?

Wait, no. You don't care.

It's not the state that the fugitive is residing in that has to care, but the state the fugitive committed the crime in. It costs money to do the extradition, and for lower level crimes, the state that has the warrant out won't pay. But they sure as shit will do it for manslaughter on up.

[Flagg]

Are you really this fucking stupid, Flagg? Brown and Johnson were walking in the middle of the street. Somebody driving in a car had to look twice at him, unless they wanted to run him over. The shooting didn't happen because Brown was black, it happened because Brown was committing an incredibly obvious, incredibly petty crime that made it impossible not to pay attention to him, then attacked a cop and grabbed his gun, then approached the cop again instead of surrendering after all his fuckups had come back to bite him in the ass.

Dumbass, they were jaywalking, at most some white goobers would have just been told over the loudspeaker to hurry to the curb. But not Brown, he's a nigger and therefore SUSPICIOUS. He might have pot pills!

And really? he grabbed the cops gun? Are there fingerprints? No? Then we have the testimony of the killer against the testimony of several residents that Brown was grabbed by Officer Duke and broke free, started running, got shot at, turned around with his hands in the air and was then finished off. Oh but wait, all of the eyewitnesses were black so in your tiny mind their accounts only count for 3/5 and since we have a shining white knight of the Ku Klux Klan policeman his testimony trumps all of that because racism.

[Agent Fisher]

He was also matched a FUCKING ROBBERY SUSPECT description, and guess what, Brown's buddy that was with him has admitted in interviews that Brown robbed hte fucking store.

And as for grabbing the gun, yeah, he fucking reached in, grabbed for the gun, it was fired twice, one round hitting the interior of the door, the other hitting Brown. Wilson didn't shoot his door for shits and fucking giggles. And seriously? The witnesses say that Wilson grabbed brown and tried to drag him into the car? That is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard! You've got no room to apply control holds, no room to do anything if you're pulling someone into your window. All your doing is giving them better access to what's on your duty belt. The front section of a police car is an officers fucking sanctuary, you'd never try and bring a subject into that area.


EDIT: From an AP article about the shooting The article

Minutes later, surveillance cameras show, Brown and Johnson walked into the convenience store, a beige brick box at the corner of Florissant and Ferguson Avenue.

Johnson's testimony of what happened inside is backed up by the video. Brown went up to the counter and asked for Swisher Sweets, popular for making "blunts" — cigarillos hollowed out and filled with marijuana. He reached across the counter and grabbed a box, then reached again and grabbed a second handful. The clerk tried to slap his hand. Brown turned toward the door.

The clerk intercepted him. Brown shoved him away and told him to get back. As they left, the clerk said he was going to call the police.

"It shocked me a lot," Johnson said. "So I was asking him, I was like, you know, 'Hey, I don't do stuff like that. What's going on?'"

Brown just laughed it off and told him to relax, Johnson said.

"But in my head I'm like, I can't be calm. I can't be cool. Because I know what just happened, and we were on camera."

[Flagg]

He was also matched a FUCKING ROBBERY SUSPECT description, and guess what, Brown's buddy that was with him has admitted in interviews that Brown robbed hte fucking store.

And as for grabbing the gun, yeah, he fucking reached in, grabbed for the gun, it was fired twice, one round hitting the interior of the door, the other hitting Brown. Wilson didn't shoot his door for shits and fucking giggles. And seriously? The witnesses say that Wilson grabbed brown and tried to drag him into the car? That is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard! You've got no room to apply control holds, no room to do anything if you're pulling someone into your window. All your doing is giving them better access to what's on your duty belt. The front section of a police car is an officers fucking sanctuary, you'd never try and bring a subject into that area.


EDIT: From an AP article about the shooting The article

Minutes later, surveillance cameras show, Brown and Johnson walked into the convenience store, a beige brick box at the corner of Florissant and Ferguson Avenue.

Johnson's testimony of what happened inside is backed up by the video. Brown went up to the counter and asked for Swisher Sweets, popular for making "blunts" — cigarillos hollowed out and filled with marijuana. He reached across the counter and grabbed a box, then reached again and grabbed a second handful. The clerk tried to slap his hand. Brown turned toward the door.

The clerk intercepted him. Brown shoved him away and told him to get back. As they left, the clerk said he was going to call the police.

"It shocked me a lot," Johnson said. "So I was asking him, I was like, you know, 'Hey, I don't do stuff like that. What's going on?'"

Brown just laughed it off and told him to relax, Johnson said.

"But in my head I'm like, I can't be calm. I can't be cool. Because I know what just happened, and we were on camera."

No, what we know is that Officer dickface pulled Brown into the cruiser and the gun was fired twice. According to the killer it was a struggle over the gun. Sure would be nice if the other guy who got blown away seconds later were around to corroborate or dispute that. And wasn't it the Grand Dragon err Chief of Police who maintained that Killson wasn't even aware of the "robbery" which was really a glorified shoplifting?

As for Officer Earl Ray having to be stupid to pull him into his cruiser, well lets add up the evidence here. Hick cop in the Midwest? Check. Guns down a black kid in a black neighborhood who had his hands in the air when he's there by himself surrounded by tons of witnesses some of whom, in his pea sized greymatter, are probably carrying guns themselves? Now THAT is dumbass of the year. So yeah, I'm not really all in on this guys intelligence.

[Agent Fisher]

From the radio traffic, clearly he was aware of the robbery if he was asking other units on scene if they wanted an additional. And I guarantee that as soon as he had cleared from the call he was on and got back in the cruiser, he checked the call card for that robbery call, to see what was going on. And yes, that was robbery. Robbery is theft by force or fear of force. Brown shoved the shopkeeper, that counts as force. Doesn't matter the price of the item, robbery is robbery.

And again, the idea of Officer Wilson pulling Brown into his cruiser is just fucking ridiculous. There is absolutely no advantage to be gained by grabbing someone and trying to pull them in.

But never mind, I can see you have one version of the events stuck in your head and can't conceive of even attempting to understand that guess what, maybe Wilson isn't racist, maybe Brown wasn't a gentle, innocent teenager, maybe this was just a shit situation that ended badly and that end didn't require any sort of maliciousness on Wilson's side.

[Flagg]

From the radio traffic, clearly he was aware of the robbery if he was asking other units on scene if they wanted an additional. And I guarantee that as soon as he had cleared from the call he was on and got back in the cruiser, he checked the call card for that robbery call, to see what was going on. And yes, that was robbery. Robbery is theft by force or fear of force. Brown shoved the shopkeeper, that counts as force. Doesn't matter the price of the item, robbery is robbery.

And again, the idea of Officer Wilson pulling Brown into his cruiser is just fucking ridiculous. There is absolutely no advantage to be gained by grabbing someone and trying to pull them in.

But never mind, I can see you have one version of the events stuck in your head and can't conceive of even attempting to understand that guess what, maybe Wilson isn't racist, maybe Brown wasn't a gentle, innocent teenager, maybe this was just a shit situation that ended badly and that end didn't require any sort of maliciousness on Wilson's side.

You really are a useless moron. I don't believe Brown was anything but a shitstain on society and thuggish piece of shit. It's on video. But I also believe that Wilson is a racist cunt who went out of his way to start an altercation with a couple of black kids jaywalking because he could. Only it turned out that Johnson wasn't going to put up with being abused and when Officer dicksplatter tried to give him a "talkin to about being a "shiftless nigger"" Brown kept walking. Wilson lost his shit and pulled Brown's head and arm inside the cruiser then panicked when Brown fought back, pulled his pistol shot him in the hand at which point Brown ran, then turned around and, here's the important part: PUT HIS HANDS UP IN THE GLOBAL SIGN OF SURRENDER AT WHICH POINT OFFICER FRIENDLY EXECUTED HIM.

[Patroklos]

Forensics proves his hands were not up and it's corroborrated by the vast majority of witness testimony.

You are like crime reporting version of an anti science creationist.

[Flagg]

Forensics proves his hands were not up and it's corroborrated by the vast majority of witness testimony.

You are like crime reporting version of an anti science creationist.

Lets assume that your claim is true (and whose forensics department made the claim?) and his hands weren't up, On what basis does Officer Dipshit get to use deadly force? By his own admission he knows Brown is unarmed because of the claim that he went for the Officers gun. Unless Brown is on fucking PCP or wanted to kill himself by "cop" (don't want to offend KS by pretending this shitshow was carried out by actual police officers) he's not going to charge the guy. So by what legal grounds did Officer Semen Splat have the right to use deadly force?

[Beowulf]

he's not going to charge the guy.

You have no way of knowing Brown's state of mind. He may have thought that he could, in fact, successfully struggle with Officer Wilson, now that Wilson had gotten out of the car. We, Monday morning quarterbacks that we are, know that he could not have actually managed that (given that he's dead), but he may have thought Wilson was closer, and been able to close the distance easier.

We don't know why Brown turned around. We know that he did. We know that Wilson percieved that Brown was significantly larger than Wilson (because he was, by 50% in mass). We know that someone doesn't need to be fucking armed to do serious damage to someone else. We know Wilson claims to have percieved that Brown was charging him. We know that Brown was not afraid to assault an armed cop, regardless of the fact that Brown was not. We know that Wilson did in fact sustain bruising to his face (there's a picture released that shows some fairly decent bruising on his right cheek (it's more obvious with the pic with the ruler, as it does kinda look like shadowing in the one without the picture)). From blood spatter, we know that Brown was moving towards Wilson when he was shot.

It is therefore reasonable to find that Wilson could have been in fear of grevious bodily injury, and that he was therefore acting in self-defense, and the grand jury decided that the preponderence of evidence indicated that he was doing so.

As rubber stamp-ish as modern grand juries are, they work for the people, not the government. The fact that normally they return indictments does not mean that exculpatory evidence should not be presented to them. They were written into constitutions as a check on prosecutor's power. That they don't normally do so doesn't mean that them doing their job in this case was bad. It means that the other ones, elsewhere, aren't doing their jobs.

[Simon_Jester]

If Brown was standing still, Wilson did not have the right to use deadly force.

If Brown was advancing, Wilson was in a different situation. The distance we've been told separated the two men, about ten or fifteen yards, can be covered very quickly by a running man. If an unarmed man thirty feet away from you is advancing on you, and actually has inflicted physical injury on you previously and/or tried to reach for a weapon... at that point I think you would need to shoot, because if you wait more than another second or two, he's going to be on top of you.

Now, there are statements I've read claiming that the actual distance from Brown to Wilson was actually more like fifty yards; that would make the threat less imminent. I'm not sure what to make of them because if that were the case I'd be genuinely surprised if Wilson could even hit Brown six times, four of them in the forearm, out of twelve rounds fired.

[Flagg]

he's not going to charge the guy.

You have no way of knowing Brown's state of mind. He may have thought that he could, in fact, successfully struggle with Officer Wilson, now that Wilson had gotten out of the car. We, Monday morning quarterbacks that we are, know that he could not have actually managed that (given that he's dead), but he may have thought Wilson was closer, and been able to close the distance easier.

We don't know why Brown turned around. We know that he did. We know that Wilson percieved that Brown was significantly larger than Wilson (because he was, by 50% in mass). We know that someone doesn't need to be fucking armed to do serious damage to someone else. We know Wilson claims to have percieved that Brown was charging him. We know that Brown was not afraid to assault an armed cop, regardless of the fact that Brown was not. We know that Wilson did in fact sustain bruising to his face (there's a picture released that shows some fairly decent bruising on his right cheek (it's more obvious with the pic with the ruler, as it does kinda look like shadowing in the one without the picture)). From blood spatter, we know that Brown was moving towards Wilson when he was shot.

It is therefore reasonable to find that Wilson could have been in fear of grevious bodily injury, and that he was therefore acting in self-defense, and the grand jury decided that the preponderence of evidence indicated that he was doing so.

As rubber stamp-ish as modern grand juries are, they work for the people, not the government. The fact that normally they return indictments does not mean that exculpatory evidence should not be presented to them. They were written into constitutions as a check on prosecutor's power. That they don't normally do so doesn't mean that them doing their job in this case was bad. It means that the other ones, elsewhere, aren't doing their jobs.

Hey, nice job picking 7 words completely without the context surrounding them to suggest that I denied Brown would have any reason to charge Officer Roach Shit when I explicitely suggested that he may very well have reason to do so.

And sorry, but when virtually every other Grand Jury takes hours or days to indict or not, is said to be incredibly odd by every respectable legal professional I've read or seen on TV, and the prosecutor running the grand jury had deep ties to the police department, who gives a shit how it technically should be run? Especially when it skews towards the benefit of the powerful?

[Flagg]

Ghetto Edit:

EDIT: Actually looking back on the post from which you cherry picked , I left that a little too... closed? To other possibilities than I had intended. So Mea Culpa.

I'm having a hard time searching for words and terminology in my addled brain due to this illness I've been dealing with for the past 8 months so my apologies if things sound odd or don't make complete sense.

[Beowulf]

It was 150 odd feet from the car to where Brown's body was. However, Brown, after assaulting Wilson, had run along the road, and Wilson had given chase, putting some distance between the initial and final shots of the altercation. Brown's body is some 25 odd feet closer to the police car than blood spatters are, indicating he ran a good 8 yards back towards Wilson before dying. Wilson claims 20-30 feet between them when he started shooting, but testimony as to distances is somewhat unreliable, as most people are actually fairly bad at it, and it gets worse once adrenline gets going.

Ghetto Edit:

EDIT: Actually looking back on the post from which you cherry picked , I left that a little too... closed? To other possibilities than I had intended. So Mea Culpa.

I'm having a hard time searching for words and terminology in my addled brain due to this illness I've been dealing with for the past 8 months so my apologies if things sound odd or don't make complete sense.

Yeah, you did leave it fairly closed. If you hadn't, I probably would have included more context.

[aerius]

The forensics reports raise some questions, specifically the gunshots which entered from the top of Brown's head and one that went downwards from his forehead and through his chest. Those shots are consistent with consistent with someone who's bent over and charging towards his target with his head down. So far so good for Wilson. One problem. The shot through the top of the head would've killed Brown instantly, he'd be dead before he hit the ground. Basically, he'd go from running at a full charge to flat on the ground in an instant. Falling on the pavement or sidewalk like that would leave a hell of a lot of scrapes & bruises, and some pretty nasty ones at that.

IMO, unless Brown had the skin of a rhino he'd have taken a lot worse scrapes than the ones that are noted in the autopsy report. Doing a faceplant on pavement from a run with no way to break the fall because he's dead would do a hell of a number on his face and upper body. It's also not consistent with an execution style killing where Brown was already down on his knees, if that were the case the abrasions on the hip & chest wouldn't be there. It's consistent with someone who's bent over and moving at low speed towards the shooter, but that does not fit with any of the stories I've seen so far. As I said, it doesn't quite make sense.

[Edi]

Little of Wilson's testimony does and the prosecutor's conduct is that he behaves as if he were Wilson's defense lawyer instead of doing his job as a prosecutor. He's a shitstain who is a disgrace to his profession and that's roughly the most charitable thing that can be said about him.

[Simon_Jester]

Little of Wilson's testimony does and the prosecutor's conduct is that he behaves as if he were Wilson's defense lawyer instead of doing his job as a prosecutor. He's a shitstain who is a disgrace to his profession and that's roughly the most charitable thing that can be said about him.

I'm agreeable to this; the main issue that I see is the forensics. Even ignoring Wilson's testimony, it's hard to explain the forensics (and the bulk of the actual eyewitness testimony) while preserving the "this was a cold-blooded massacre of an innocent man" narrative.

The forensics reports raise some questions, specifically the gunshots which entered from the top of Brown's head and one that went downwards from his forehead and through his chest. Those shots are consistent with consistent with someone who's bent over and charging towards his target with his head down. So far so good for Wilson. One problem. The shot through the top of the head would've killed Brown instantly, he'd be dead before he hit the ground. Basically, he'd go from running at a full charge to flat on the ground in an instant. Falling on the pavement or sidewalk like that would leave a hell of a lot of scrapes & bruises, and some pretty nasty ones at that.

IMO, unless Brown had the skin of a rhino he'd have taken a lot worse scrapes than the ones that are noted in the autopsy report. Doing a faceplant on pavement from a run with no way to break the fall because he's dead would do a hell of a number on his face and upper body. It's also not consistent with an execution style killing where Brown was already down on his knees, if that were the case the abrasions on the hip & chest wouldn't be there. It's consistent with someone who's bent over and moving at low speed towards the shooter, but that does not fit with any of the stories I've seen so far. As I said, it doesn't quite make sense.

I'm not a forensics expert so I don't know exactly what level of scraping and bruising to expect.. Assuming that's correct...

One possibility is that Wilson opened fire as Brown was preparing to rush him, but before he built up speed. Another possibility (which might be inconsistent with the exact nature of the wounds) is that Wilson opened fire, Brown was hit multiple times, apparently in the arm, slowed down, and was shot fatally by the eleventh and twelfth rounds.

[Joun_Lord]

The forensics reports raise some questions, specifically the gunshots which entered from the top of Brown's head and one that went downwards from his forehead and through his chest. Those shots are consistent with consistent with someone who's bent over and charging towards his target with his head down. So far so good for Wilson. One problem. The shot through the top of the head would've killed Brown instantly, he'd be dead before he hit the ground. Basically, he'd go from running at a full charge to flat on the ground in an instant. Falling on the pavement or sidewalk like that would leave a hell of a lot of scrapes & bruises, and some pretty nasty ones at that.

IMO, unless Brown had the skin of a rhino he'd have taken a lot worse scrapes than the ones that are noted in the autopsy report. Doing a faceplant on pavement from a run with no way to break the fall because he's dead would do a hell of a number on his face and upper body. It's also not consistent with an execution style killing where Brown was already down on his knees, if that were the case the abrasions on the hip & chest wouldn't be there. It's consistent with someone who's bent over and moving at low speed towards the shooter, but that does not fit with any of the stories I've seen so far. As I said, it doesn't quite make sense.

Could have been that Brown didn't have an instant loss of motor control when shot. Not to get into the 9mm vs 45 debate, Wilson was as far as I'm aware using a 9mm handgun with a round that has been proven to be small and fast enough to not do a ton of damage when taken to the dome. Brown could have been shot and kept going a few steps while his brain and body processed what just happened to him, adrenaline and everything high from his initial fight with Wilson making sure he might not have been even aware he was shot at first. Then he might have stopped himself once the damage registered rather then his body losing all motor control and skidding to a halt from momentum.

Brown might have actually been alive for a few moments after getting his head shot. That sounds a bit horrifying really, stuck in a body as it slowly shuts down from damage, memories and consciousness going haywire, having enough control to know what happened but not enough to do anything about it but wait to die.

I don't think Brown was innocent but still I have to feel bad for the guy if thats what his last moments were like, nobody should have to go through something like that. That isn't blaming Wilson either, if shit happened like he said it he was just defending himself with the tools he had.

Somebody really needs to invent some Judge Dredd or Robertcop style taser bullets.

[Enigma]

Darren Wilson has quit the police force.

[Broomstick]

I don't see him as having much choice, do you?

[Agent Fisher]

With all the death threats he's received, there was no way he could go to being a police officer in Ferguson, or hell, any department. His career in law enforcement was over the moment this incident became a national level event.

[Joun_Lord]

Just the media attention alone on Wilson would probably bar him from being a cop for the foreseeable future. Having such a high risk job and having the added bonus of vultures watching your every move even if not physically. Thats a whole heap of stress on a guy probably already a bit broken up for killing someone even if the kill was totally above board and legal.

Plus his continued police work would be too much of a risk to his fellow officers and Ferguson law enforcement in general. It would be a PR disaster among the black community to have the "racist child killing monster" Wilson back on the streets. Vigilantes would have been further incensed to try plots and protestors would continue to rabble and people who are in no way related to the protests would continue to burn crap down.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ferguson PD offered him a healthy severance package to GTFO of the force.

[Gaidin]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ferguson PD offered him a healthy severance package to GTFO of the force.

Wasn't there rumors that that was his plan anyway, just that the only thing keeping him from doing it was the smell of being guilty during either the Grand Jury or possible Trial?

[Crossroads Inc.]

There are a LOT of rumors about him leaving with lots of money... Especially depending on what you believe about how much he may have got via donations...

[Gaidin]

Well, I never heard anything about Lots Of Money(TM). I did hear about him having to resign for whatever reason, just that his lawyer said not to until things were resolved for image reasons.