2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm actually not so pessimistic now.

Short of Trump starting World War III or something, which is possible, the world isn't going to end. It will be very bad for a while, perhaps, and I don't mean to minimize the suffering that will happen as a consequence of this, but no political movement or regime lasts forever.

Progressivism will rally. This is not the beginning of perpetual Republican government.

Edit: And honestly, I'm tired of the defeatist mindset so many Democrats seem to have. That so many of us are already writing off elections several years away.

Now, if anything, is the time to fight harder and aim higher, not simply accept that it is now the Alt. Right's America.

[Q99]

It is noteworthy that roughly, oh...

Fifty thousand more Democratic voters in a few key cities in Michigan, thirty thousand in Wisconsin, and seventy thousand or so in Pennsylvania...

Would have been enough to flip this election.

We can point fingers and snarl at each other about which group failed to supply those 150,000 voters in three key swing states, but I think it would be missing the point.

Yea, it's close enough that there's no one failure point- No single gigantic failure by a single specific group cost us. Everyone came close enough that the lack of a small failure *here* or *there* could've put us over the top. Whichever group you identify with.

[Simon_Jester]

Right.

I stayed up stupidly late on election night, personally, and the last actual ray of hope I felt basically revolved around praying that there had been enough black voters in Detroit and Philadelphia to turn the tide.

I refuse to turn around with the spite of a disappointed hope and claim that those voters somehow let me, or America, down. Any more than a lot of other people did.

They could have prevented this. That is a fact. But they were not the only group of a few hundred thousand people who could have done so.

[FireNexus]

I'm actually not so pessimistic now.

Short of Trump starting World War III or something, which is possible, the world isn't going to end. It will be very bad for a while, perhaps, and I don't mean to minimize the suffering that will happen as a consequence of this, but no political movement or regime lasts forever.

Progressivism will rally. This is not the beginning of perpetual Republican government.

Edit: And honestly, I'm tired of the defeatist mindset so many Democrats seem to have. That so many of us are already writing off elections several years away.

Now, if anything, is the time to fight harder and aim higher, not simply accept that it is now the Alt. Right's America.

What sort of fights have you actually participated in? Besides giving $27 to Bernie and maybe hitting a campaign rally, how have you fought? You constantly spout this soaring rhetoric about getting down in the mud and really getting to work. What office have you run for? What campaigns have you volunteered for? Or do you consider Monday morning quarterbacking and spouting BS on web forums to be "fighting"?

Honestly, the tone of your posts implies a far more significant level of work on your part than the content of them. Don't tell me about "fighting" and "executing strategy". You almost certainly don't fight or execute strategy. You are likely just like me: A consumer of political news as a form of entertainment and voter with strong opinions.

You can get all self-righteous at me when you indicate actually doing anything to put forward your views. Until then, please stop trying to rub your progressive moral superiority in everyone's face for a while. Kthxbye.

[Gandalf]

Right.

I stayed up stupidly late on election night, personally, and the last actual ray of hope I felt basically revolved around praying that there had been enough black voters in Detroit and Philadelphia to turn the tide.

I refuse to turn around with the spite of a disappointed hope and claim that those voters somehow let me, or America, down. Any more than a lot of other people did.

They could have prevented this. That is a fact. But they were not the only group of a few hundred thousand people who could have done so.

I find that part of "black people failed" to be a really weird outcome of this election finger point. Why is it their job to stop Trump voting white people? Where are the moderate whites decrying this extremism and voting against it?

[Simon_Jester]

Exactly!

There are dozens if not hundreds of reasonable-sized collections of people in this country who could have prevented Trump's victory. Conversely, there are groups that, by voting Clinton, have at least made the electoral result close rather than a ludicrous lopsided victory. I ran the numbers recently myself, because my brother asked, for instance, and concluded something like:

"If every Stein voter had voted for Clinton, Clinton would have won, probably... but if every Johnson voter had voted for Trump, too, then Trump would have won in a massive blowout with a lead of something like 160 points, sweeping every state except the West coast, the Northeast, and Ilinois."

So blaming third parties, or minorities, or whoever, is foolish. Minorities DID have more power than they chose to exercise, and this election WOULD have gone to Clinton had they exerted themselves to the utmost. But that does not reflect a moral failing on the minorities' fault. Though it certainly is a valuable lesson that members of minorities should take to heart.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm actually not so pessimistic now.

Short of Trump starting World War III or something, which is possible, the world isn't going to end. It will be very bad for a while, perhaps, and I don't mean to minimize the suffering that will happen as a consequence of this, but no political movement or regime lasts forever.

Progressivism will rally. This is not the beginning of perpetual Republican government.

Edit: And honestly, I'm tired of the defeatist mindset so many Democrats seem to have. That so many of us are already writing off elections several years away.

Now, if anything, is the time to fight harder and aim higher, not simply accept that it is now the Alt. Right's America.

What sort of fights have you actually participated in? Besides giving $27 to Bernie and maybe hitting a campaign rally, how have you fought? You constantly spout this soaring rhetoric about getting down in the mud and really getting to work. What office have you run for? What campaigns have you volunteered for? Or do you consider Monday morning quarterbacking and spouting BS on web forums to be "fighting"?

Honestly, the tone of your posts implies a far more significant level of work on your part than the content of them. Don't tell me about "fighting" and "executing strategy". You almost certainly don't fight or execute strategy. You are likely just like me: A consumer of political news as a form of entertainment and voter with strong opinions.

You can get all self-righteous at me when you indicate actually doing anything to put forward your views. Until then, please stop trying to rub your progressive moral superiority in everyone's face for a while. Kthxbye.

I do not mean to be self-righteous at all- I simply do not see the point of defeatism other than to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I do find it rather unfortunate that you insist on responding to my posts only with (speculative) character attacks.

Edit: I will add that my ability to run for office in the US is rather sharply limited by the fact that I currently reside in Canada, although I have considered the idea of running for municipal council here in Canada.

[FireNexus]

I'm actually not so pessimistic now.

Short of Trump starting World War III or something, which is possible, the world isn't going to end. It will be very bad for a while, perhaps, and I don't mean to minimize the suffering that will happen as a consequence of this, but no political movement or regime lasts forever.

Progressivism will rally. This is not the beginning of perpetual Republican government.

Edit: And honestly, I'm tired of the defeatist mindset so many Democrats seem to have. That so many of us are already writing off elections several years away.

Now, if anything, is the time to fight harder and aim higher, not simply accept that it is now the Alt. Right's America.

What sort of fights have you actually participated in? Besides giving $27 to Bernie and maybe hitting a campaign rally, how have you fought? You constantly spout this soaring rhetoric about getting down in the mud and really getting to work. What office have you run for? What campaigns have you volunteered for? Or do you consider Monday morning quarterbacking and spouting BS on web forums to be "fighting"?

Honestly, the tone of your posts implies a far more significant level of work on your part than the content of them. Don't tell me about "fighting" and "executing strategy". You almost certainly don't fight or execute strategy. You are likely just like me: A consumer of political news as a form of entertainment and voter with strong opinions.

You can get all self-righteous at me when you indicate actually doing anything to put forward your views. Until then, please stop trying to rub your progressive moral superiority in everyone's face for a while. Kthxbye.

I do not mean to be self-righteous at all- I simply do not see the point of defeatism other than to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I do find it rather unfortunate that you insist on responding to my posts only with (speculative) character attacks.

Edit: I will add that my ability to run for office in the US is rather sharply limited by the fact that I currently reside in Canada, although I have considered the idea of running for municipal council here in Canada.

I am responding to your rhetoric with an apparently accurate characterization of its emptiness. You have not participated in the fights you insist "we" must "continue". So please, stop with the rhetoric implying that you have.

[The Romulan Republic]

I have not claimed any accomplishments that are not mine.

And since I can see that this conversation is once again, regrettably, becoming driven by nothing but your personal animosity toward me, I will bow out.

[Q99]

I find that part of "black people failed" to be a really weird outcome of this election finger point. Why is it their job to stop Trump voting white people? Where are the moderate whites decrying this extremism and voting against it?

And they're not the ones going, "See, it's your own fault we didn't turn out, if you'd only listened to us...".

[Flagg]

I find that part of "black people failed" to be a really weird outcome of this election finger point. Why is it their job to stop Trump voting white people? Where are the moderate whites decrying this extremism and voting against it?

And they're not the ones going, "See, it's your own fault we didn't turn out, if you'd only listened to us...".

Yeah, it's really disgusting left wing racism spurred by sour grapes and (legitimate) fear. There's no excuse for it.

IMO it was likely across the board low turnout due to every poll showing Clinton with a clear win. So if you have a kid or kids and a job or jobs and voting is possible but a hassle, why not stay home and get off your feet for 10 minutes? The polls show Clinton 5 points ahead.

[Flagg]

I have not claimed any accomplishments that are not mine.

And since I can see that this conversation is once again, regrettably, becoming driven by nothing but your personal animosity toward me, I will bow out.

Get off your cross you smarmy little cunt. You deserve more than you've gotten.

[mr friendly guy]

So blaming third parties, or minorities, or whoever, is foolish. Minorities DID have more power than they chose to exercise, and this election WOULD have gone to Clinton had they exerted themselves to the utmost. But that does not reflect a moral failing on the minorities' fault. Though it certainly is a valuable lesson that members of minorities should take to heart.

Too late. Rachel Maddow already blamed the third party voters.

[Flagg]

So blaming third parties, or minorities, or whoever, is foolish. Minorities DID have more power than they chose to exercise, and this election WOULD have gone to Clinton had they exerted themselves to the utmost. But that does not reflect a moral failing on the minorities' fault. Though it certainly is a valuable lesson that members of minorities should take to heart.

Too late. Rachel Maddow already blamed the third party voters.

Well, they didn't help.

[Block]

I find that part of "black people failed" to be a really weird outcome of this election finger point. Why is it their job to stop Trump voting white people? Where are the moderate whites decrying this extremism and voting against it?

And they're not the ones going, "See, it's your own fault we didn't turn out, if you'd only listened to us...".

No, they just didn't turn out for the non-black guy Democrat and then blamed white women for being the "handmaidens of oppression " who "chose race over gender." I have seen that phrase over and over in the last few days. Their job was to show up and vote if they didn't want the guy who got basically the same numbers Republicans always get to win.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I'm now at that stage of grief where I'm just giving up and going with the silver linings here: Republicans will have effective control of all three branches for at least two years, during that time anything that goes wrong will be blamed on them and anything they did right forgotten in a week because of "What Have You Done For Me Lately" attitude of the average voter regardless of whether it's their fault, and that too will be their own fault. They legitimized the emotion before facts-brand of populism for an entire generation of extremely angry, liberal millenials who actually are a concern when they make implicit threats of revolution, unlike the aging Republican base.

[Exonerate]

Just to be contra-contrarian to those saying that the Democrats need to understand the rural white working class more, it's worth remembering that it swings both ways.

I think they both ran on fear. Just Trump had more then fear of the opposition, he had fear of the economy, fear of immigration, fear of gun rights to play off. Hillary had fear of Donald and little else I think. People were afraid of what Donnie would do (might do meow) but no fears of people losing their ways of life and financial security unrelated to what tRump might or might no do. For the fears of Clinton herself there was existing evidence supporting the fears of her personally. The fears of her playing fast and loose with secrets and government rules, the fear of tuking ur gurns, the fear of being willing to throw allies like the LGBT community under the bus when its convenient to her which I'm sure sacred both members of the LGBT community (obviously) and moderate gun owners. Trump having no experience in politics has no concrete examples of the fears people have of him unfortunately, just shit that feel out of his fat mouth and shit people say aboot him.

Trump had "facts" to back up his fear, Clinton had hollow words. Fear of the Trumpster just wasn't enough to overcome the facts, the real ones or the imagined ones or the overblown ones, of Clinton.

Plus people were afraid of her cooties or so I've been reading on the internet.

While it's certainly true there was an element of fear in Trump's campaign, there was also a large element of hate. And it's more than that - the core of the issue is that the traditionally white worldview is collapsing. What used to be considered fringe issues like police brutality vs minorities are now mainstream topics of discussion and - dare I say it - even cool to get behind, at least among certain segments of the population. Making "jokes" about traditionally powerless groups gets vocal call-outs of racism instead of silence. According to exit polls, the most important issue to Trump voters out of the listed options was immigration. Even terrorism came in ahead of economy, despite the fact that the risk of bumfuck nowhere being a target of terrorism being just about nonexistent. So, I don't really buy the argument that economic reasons were the main factor that drove people into the arms of Trump. You look at the breakdown by income and you'll see that people making 50k+ actually voted for Trump more than those who made less than 50k.

There's a good body of research in psychology that says people are seldom rational when it comes to politics. I'd wager good money that Trump voters as a group even less so than the general population on average. For a substantial amount of people, it's as simple as he talked tough and trashed the outgroup of immigrants and Muslims, so tribal monkey brains got behind him (and before any Trump supporters get mad at me for saying this, I'll note that I also observed more authoritarianism in the Democratic camp than any other election I've seen). And when the big monkey says something, it doesn't matter what that something is - you get behind him.

Oh, and there is a single point of failure... It's the Clinton campaign.

[cosmicalstorm]

If I was an anti Trump BiQBLMkinosexual I would console myself with the possibilty that the economy is about as stable as a pen standing on its tip.

When it crashes, on purpose or because of the past decades of nonsense fiscal policy, he can be blamed.

Additionally there is always the real risk of a big quake or a VEI 7 going of, will the left channel the Wrath of God shit that conservatives usually chuck out? Probably he would be an effective disaster President though.

My biggest positive hope is that he will be big enough to tear down FDA and reform it so that true rejuvenation research can begin to take place ala SENS.

Anything short of a nuclear war could be forgiven if he did get rejuvenation rolling.

Its one effort I doubt Ms Hillary Private Stance on Big Biz Clinton would have cared at all about.

[Highlord Laan]

I'm now at that stage of grief where I'm just giving up and going with the silver linings here: Republicans will have effective control of all three branches for at least two years, during that time anything that goes wrong will be blamed on them and anything they did right forgotten in a week because of "What Have You Done For Me Lately" attitude of the average voter regardless of whether it's their fault, and that too will be their own fault. They legitimized the emotion before facts-brand of populism for an entire generation of extremely angry, liberal millenials who actually are a concern when they make implicit threats of revolution, unlike the aging Republican base.

Another silver lining: Every year, more boomers die, while more millennials, which already outnumber boomers, come of age. As an additional spring in our step the Xer's are, by comparison, a generational footnote and won't be able to provide much in the way of opposition.

It may take another 16 years, but the fuckups of the last 50 will finally start getting taken care of.

[Patroklos]

You do understand that the politics of people change as they age, right?

[The Vortex Empire]

You do understand that the politics of people change as they age, right?

Not much.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -behavior/

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/ ... first.html

[Joun_Lord]

While it's certainly true there was an element of fear in Trump's campaign, there was also a large element of hate. And it's more than that - the core of the issue is that the traditionally white worldview is collapsing. What used to be considered fringe issues like police brutality vs minorities are now mainstream topics of discussion and - dare I say it - even cool to get behind, at least among certain segments of the population. Making "jokes" about traditionally powerless groups gets vocal call-outs of racism instead of silence. According to exit polls, the most important issue to Trump voters out of the listed options was immigration. Even terrorism came in ahead of economy, despite the fact that the risk of bumfuck nowhere being a target of terrorism being just about nonexistent. So, I don't really buy the argument that economic reasons were the main factor that drove people into the arms of Trump. You look at the breakdown by income and you'll see that people making 50k+ actually voted for Trump more than those who made less than 50k.

There's a good body of research in psychology that says people are seldom rational when it comes to politics. I'd wager good money that Trump voters as a group even less so than the general population on average. For a substantial amount of people, it's as simple as he talked tough and trashed the outgroup of immigrants and Muslims, so tribal monkey brains got behind him (and before any Trump supporters get mad at me for saying this, I'll note that I also observed more authoritarianism in the Democratic camp than any other election I've seen). And when the big monkey says something, it doesn't matter what that something is - you get behind him.

Oh, and there is a single point of failure... It's the Clinton campaign.

Fear lead to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to having a Pumpkin headed dumbass leading the US. When people are fearful towards something they are going to lash out with anger. Do you not think there was just as much fear and hate towards Trump by those in the Hillary campaign?

And I would not say the traditional white worldview is collapsing, all traditional worldviews are. Backwards intolerant schools of thought are becoming recognized by many for the bullshit it is. The problem in the minds of some people is while backwards intolerance is not something that is just found in the realm of white people some people seem to imply that it is. Some people seem not against shitty things like being anti-gay or racist that unfortunately have had a massive part of white culture (though again, not just limited to whites) but seem against white culture in general. Quasi-racist comments and jokes against traditionally powerless people like poor whites in general and some distinctive rural cultures do not get called out, they are accepted. The plight of middle class and poor white people seems actively ignored if not ridiculed.

Whether this is true or not it still is what some people believe and informs their worldview. They think people hate them so they are going to hate right back or at the very least not care so much for issues championed by said people. And I don't think its really true, I don't think the Democrats are anti-white or rural. I do think they did fudge up by seeming to pander too hard to people who might feelz that way and ignoring the legitimate grievances of rural and poor white in the process.

I would not say, or in this case type with copious amounts of spell check involved, immigration is automatically racist. For some it is no doubt a worry about hordes of darkies coming over and stealing our white wimmen and our white jobs and not even having the decency to use our white english while doing it. For others it is the fact people are coming here using our resources, taking our jobs, bringing crime and drugs, and breaking our laws to arrive here. I don't think its really racist to be worried about that. It nor fear of terrorism is automatically racist just because the people most likely to come here tuking ur jerbs and blowing up our stuff are brown people.

Terrorism is a weird thing, its not rational, its based on fear. Fear ain't rational I tell you hwat. Most people in America are unlikely to be attacked by a terrorist of any stripe but thats part of the fear, the fact that its random and completely unexpected, can strike anyone at anytime no matter if they are some atheist devil worshipping abortion factory supporting liberal in the rotten apple or some good christian fellow who only smacks his wife on sundays in Bumfuck Nowhere. Its the same sort of fear that is related to mass shootings in the US. They are relatively rare, very few people actually die from them, and the "assault weapons" used actually kill few people overall but people are still extremely terrified of them, want to ban scary looking assault weapons, and pass a shitton of fear based laws and bills.

The fact that mostly liberals are the ones wetting themselves over mass shootings and the fact people who didn't even like Clinton were willing to vote for her despite scandals and all that bologna because anything is better then Trump makes me think if I took that bet about the rationality of Trump voters I'd probably maybe perhaps win. Maybe, I never win anything like fucking ever, probably should have voted for Trump considering my luck at winning. People just ain't rational when it comes to fear period, don't much matter which side of the political aisle they squat and shit in, fear makes fools of them all.

I disagree that the point of failure is the Clinton campaign. The CC failed both because of its own incompetence, it was their race to lose, but also for following the roadmap laid by Democrats in general. For seeming spineless, for focusing too much on bullshit, for seeming anti-white or anti-rural even if they weren't, for generally blundering for I think the better part of a decade and maybe longer, for setting up the country to be ripe enough for Trump to somehow, somehow as in the fact I still cannot believe it, in a haze of wondering if maybe I'm still dreaming some fucked up dream, somehow win despite all odds, despite it should have been unpossible.

Clinton and her campaign's primary failing atleast in my opinion is the fact they did not recognize that the shit they were standing in stunk like shit and not getting some new litter for the litterbox.

[K. A. Pital]

TTP, TTIP and even NAFTA are on the line:
http://www.politico.eu/article/trump-wi ... irst-days/

To be wiped out within first 100 days or 200 days of Trump. Hope this happens, fingers crossed.

[Starglider]

Rachel Maddow already blamed the third party voters.

Well, they didn't help.

The right-wing third parties (mostly the Libertarians) got four times as many votes as the left-wing third parties (almost entirely the greens). Third party votes would have had to break 2/3rds for Clinton to alter the overall outcome and it is ludicrous to expect that they would have done so (with no other options), rather than vote for Trump or abstein. In fact it is quite likely that removing the Libertarian party would have increased Trump's margins more than removing the Green party would have increased Hillary's.

Of course if you want to blame Stein supporters specifically, go for it.

[mr friendly guy]

So blaming third parties, or minorities, or whoever, is foolish. Minorities DID have more power than they chose to exercise, and this election WOULD have gone to Clinton had they exerted themselves to the utmost. But that does not reflect a moral failing on the minorities' fault. Though it certainly is a valuable lesson that members of minorities should take to heart.

Too late. Rachel Maddow already blamed the third party voters.

Well, they didn't help.

Sure they didn't help. But it seems like most of the blame should go to I don't know.... Hillary for being unelectable, the DNC for favouring her over Sanders instead of just letting them fighting it out (which gives the impression of corruption) etc.