Roman Polanski Finally Arrested.

[Surlethe]

Polanski's strongest support seems to be coming from the arts community as well.

Couldn't this be chalked up to simple tribalism?

[Bluewolf]

Polanski's strongest support seems to be coming from the arts community as well.

Couldn't this be chalked up to simple tribalism?

Could also argue that people love his work and the fact that people have enjoyed it makes them a bit uncomfortable with the idea that the creator had committed such a crime, like denial. It is like how some people hate to hear things said about people they like or admire.

[Elfdart]

While I'm at it: Fuck You, Whoopi Goldberg!

[fgalkin]

Update to the list

Isabelle Adjani
Antoine Aronin
Paul Auster
Morgane Beauverger
Candice Belaisch-Goldchmit
Yamina Benguigui
Pascal Bruckner
Jessika Cohen
Philippe Corbé
Jean-Paul Dayan
Katarina De Meulder
Arielle Dombasle
Nathalie Faucheux
Corinne Figuet
Pierre Forciniti
Louis Garrel
Albert Gauvin
Johanna Gozlan
Davide Homitsu Riboli
Taylor Hackford
Isabelle Huppert
Neil Jordan
Thierry Kamami
Milan Kundera
Gaelle Lancien
Claude Lanzmann
Bernard-Henri Lévy
Sam Mendes
Camille Meyer
Patrick Mimouni
Yann Moix
Mike Nichols
Sandra Nicolier
Marie Nieves Perez Neël
Salman Rushdie
Carine Sarna
Ysabelle Saura Del Pan
William Shawcross
Olivier Soares Barbosa
Steven Soderbergh
Nil Symchowicz
Danièle Thompson
Eugenia Varela Navarro
Diane von Furstenberg
Margaret Walker
Elsa Zylberstein

More and more people support child rape, as long as it's done by their friends?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Bluewolf]

..and what I said probably extends to more famous people too. People are probably uncomfortable and are in denial, even more so if they also knew the person or liked them in real life, like an extention of what I perviously said. Does not makes it any less acceptable though.

Oh and that Wong linked in the thread, it is accurate on UK consent ages at least, I am sure othr people can confirm if its accurate for their respective countries.

EDIT: Oh and holy shit, that is a long list. We should probably expect more names added to it.

[Surlethe]

How is it fundamentally any different than the religious right being more willing to forgive its own for X crime than to forgive liberals?

[fgalkin]

It's not, of course.

Also, Luc Besson doesn't seem to go along with the whole "Free Polanski" crowd, despite being an artiste and French.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Broomstick]

"Looks like she's 18" is a shitty defense. Get over it.

She wasn´t defending him. She was stating that he´s probably not a pedophile since this girl looked like a woman an not like a child. And for that "Looks like 18" IS a good defense.

I was never arguing that he's a pedophile, that point I actually agree on. As far as "looks like 18" being a good defense? How many cases do you know of where the judge actually let someone off the hook on that?

Hey, SHITHEAD - where the FUCK did you get the idea I was "defending" this asswipe or asking that he be let off? Tell me where I said that. Point to it. Quote it. I have repeatedly stated that he a scum of the earth rapist who should serve jail time AND get extra time tacked on for fleeing the country. In fact, in my second post in this thread I said "Well, I’d really hate to see him drug and rape another 13 year old. That’s a really shitty thing to do. In fact, it’s really shitty to drug and rape a woman of any age." - I've been pretty clear all along that rape is heinous crime regardless of the age of the victim and Polanski deserves to get slammed for it.

[Erik von Nein]

Broomstick, what was your point for bringing up that she could, under the right circumstances with the right clothes and make-up, possibly look 16? Isn't that entirely irrelevant since not only did Polanski knew her beforehand and knew she was 13, but also raped her while she was, you know, naked? I can't imagine her looking very mature at that point.

[Broomstick]

My point is that Polanski is probably NOT a pedophile as he is NOT fucking children that look like children, he is fucking teenagers that have already started well down the road to physical maturity.

Point about her dressing up and looking older: that's how he started getting interested in her. Probably also works to justify in his mind that she's "mature" for her age, which is in no way condoning that, it's just a possible way he can justify such a rape to himself. Criminals frequently try to justify their actions: "She looked older" or "I didn't think she meant it when she said no" - all of which is horseshit, of course, but such stupid thought patterns do exist.

Point about developed sexual characteristics: even naked, at 13 she had tits and ass that looked more like a woman's than a child's. Thus, again, he is NOT interested in children so much as interested in teens.

It is just as wrong to rape an 18 year old woman who looks 13 as it is to rape a 13 year old who looks 18. What I objected to was the sloppy use of the term "pedophile". Yes, I am stickler for accuracy in discussing crimes. Pointing out that he's not, in a medical sense, a pedophile is in no way excusing his crime, defending him, or trying to justify anything here. It is accuracy in describing the facts of the case.

[Erik von Nein]

Here's the image you posted earlier:



Maybe this is a rather subjective argument but she doesn't look "well down the road to sexual maturity." She has noticeable (though not very prominent) breasts and such, but looking at her face she's clearly immature. To me she looks exactly like most of the 13 year olds I've met. It doesn't help that, again, Polanski already knew she was 13. Yeah, it was quite probable that he choose her to rape because not only was she someone he knew but he could easily physically and mentally overpower her. Quiet frankly it could go either way.

[Broomstick]

OK, let me explain something about men and women which I shouldn't have to explain to 90% of people posting on this forum.

Men are visiually oriented. Yes, really they are. And things like tits and asses trigger responses in them that are not entirely rational. I see this again and again, when I meet men in real life I have known up until that time only on the internet, or in aviation when men I'd known as voices on the radio encounter me face to face, or in a thousand other interactions I've had in a lifetime. They speak/act subtly differently when they can see me than when they can't. When men see something that looks female (i.e. has tits) they do react differently than when they're communicating through text or by voice alone. That is neither bad nor good, it just is. It doesn't mean men think less of women, or don't respect women, but it does mean they react to women as women. Gay men do less of this, because they aren't sexually attracted to women (duh!). Women do not need huge tits, or perky tits, or anything other than just tits for men to react to them as women.

This is also why a lot of men find crossdressers freaky or threatening - they find themselves reacting to them as if they're women (often, damn sexy looking women) even when they know, intellectually, that they're looking at a man in costume. Men who are afraid of catching "gayness" spaz out. They don't understand that they are not attracted to a man, they are attracted to the illusion of female secondary sexual characteristics (however that is achieved).

So, he could know she was 13, know she is immature, know that she is legally a child, he could look at her face and know she is young... but when he sees tits, womanly ass, etc. he may react as if she is a mature women because it's an emotional reaction.

Now, a normal, that is, non-criminal, man will beat down any sexual feelings he has towards a somewhat physically mature looking 13 year old. He might have sexual feelings, it's actually normal for him to have those feelings, but he won't act on them because he knows it's wrong. Polanski, on the other hand, clearly let his emotions and desires overrule his intellect and self control. That is why he is a criminal.

Polanski apparently likes very young women, but every picture I've seen of his victims at the age he was fucking them show some sexual development, enough to be visible in normal clothing, even if it is equally apparent the girls aren't finished growing. Hence why I say he is NOT a pedophile - while some of his victims may be very young, they are not childlike in appearance. Sure, they might look more their chronological age when naked, but maybe at that point he's not looking at their faces.

[Erik von Nein]

Uh, I am a man, thanks. Care to be any more of a condescending bitch, though? No, really, go ahead. Not even disagreeing with you won't stop you, so hey, keep being one.

I didn't even say he WAS a pedophile, just that his prior knowledge of her age and her obviously immature facial features (and still, to me, maturing secondary characteristics) could lead credence to that idea.

[Broomstick]

Well, if you're agreeing he's NOT a pedophile then what the hell was your question about? Seriously, WTF is the problem with people in this thread (not specifically you, Erik, I'm talking about the thread as a whole) who misconstrue "he is not a pedophile" into "he should be let off for serving time for a serious felony"? WTF is the problem with people who don't seem to understand that a 13 year old can have tits, or that a man might bullshit rationalize sexually pursuing a teenager who looks more physically mature than her chronological age would suggest?

Pedophiles aren't looking for a certain age they're looking for a certain look. They find children's sexually immature, not-yet-developing bodies sexually attractive. Put another way, they aren't looking for tits, they're looking for a lack of tits. Why is that such a hard concept for people to wrap their minds around?

Then again, your comment that she looks like the other 13 year olds you presently know has reminded me that that girls are maturing earlier than they used to. 30 years ago the first appearance of tits in young women was at a later age than it is now. In other words, fewer 13 year olds in the mid-1970's were growing tits than 13 year olds in 2009. Why is that relevant? Because in 1977 or 78 a girl with tits might well be presumed to have a young face for her age rather than having a chest that is "older" than the rest of her. Again, it leads to the bullshit rationalization of "she looked like an adult". No, that's NOT an excuse for rape, that's how a rapist tries to get around punishment for his crime.

[Erik von Nein]

I was questioning why you brought it up in the first place, but it was about the accusations of pedophilia. My continued point is that, based on the case itself (I don't know any more about Polanski's personality or desires) you could make the case for pedophilia, depending on how you define child. Complete sexual immaturity is not what his victim was, but she was certainly not sexually mature.

As I said, it's more probable that she was someone he could easily have power over, rather than pedophilia.

[Broomstick]

In general, rape involves the rapist having power over his victim so I don't see how this case is particularly distinctive for that.

[ThomasP]

Nothing about the picture of that girl sets off my innate "man-lust".

It's obvious that she's a barely-pubescent girl, and that's not really stoking the fires here. Trying to paint it as an automatic physical attraction because "men are visual" isn't persuasive from where I'm sitting.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Damn, that's a whole freaking lot of people I'm gonna have to boycott now. Of course, I'm exempting episodes of TNG that feature Whoppi Goldberg from this, since they're already in syndication.

'Rape Rape' indeed.

[Broomstick]

Different strokes for different folks - some men prefer older women just because that's what they prefer. That doesn't mean other men wouldn't find a teen attractive.

[Erik von Nein]

EDIT: Topic moved faster than I anticipated. Quoting for clarity.

In general, rape involves the rapist having power over his victim so I don't see how this case is particularly distinctive for that.

It's not. In general I think the whole tangent of if he is a pedophile is entirely too speculative to be worth pursuing. She wasn't physically mature (especially not in the face) and, like you said, he is attracted to teenagers, but there really isn't any other evidence of him being a pedophile (as in attraction to children without secondary sexual characteristics).

Laughing at the hilarious "defense" of Polanski and why he shouldn't be arrested is more worthwhile at this point.

[AniThyng]

Different strokes for different folks - some men prefer older women just because that's what they prefer. That doesn't mean other men wouldn't find a teen attractive.

Given that going by this thread one would be accused of being an outright pedophile in the latter case, I doubt you'll find anyone who would admit that.

[Elfdart]

There's no difference between Whoopi Goldberg's bullshit about "rape rape" and the pro-torture crowd insisting that water torture isn't torture. I can't wait for the child rape crowd to call what Polanski did "enhanced hot tub techniques".

[ThomasP]

There's finding teens attractive and then there's finding the barely-developed look attractive. Very few 13 year old girls are going to have the physical development to resemble a mature woman, and as far as I can see from that photo, the girl is obviously not a mature adult woman. I'd consider that substantially different from a 17-18 year old that could be mistaken for 20-something.

IIRC the attraction to the barely-developed teens is called ephebophilia.

[Erik von Nein]

Oh, hey, thanks ThomasP. I was racking my brain trying to think of that term. Man, that's a relief.

[Stark]

Didn't Broomstick already use that term, pages ago?