Uprising in Libya

[Tribun]

By my count that is 3 of them, other reporting that his loyalists are holed up in the Rixos Hotel, which is where I expect Ghaddafi to be hiding...a place NATO would never bomb.

Yep, three captured, one dead. That leaves Khamis al-Gaddafi, Al-Mu'tasim-Billah al-Gaddafi and Hannibal Muammar al-Gaddafi.

[CJvR]

Assad in Syria will probably need to change his pants after getting the news from Libya, the fall of Mad Dog is a verrrry bad omen for him.

[Raptor 597]

Assad in Syria will probably need to change his pants after getting the news from Libya, the fall of Mad Dog is a verrrry bad omen for him.

Yea, but it seems to me Assad has a lot more muscle with alot of the military still behind him and most of the rebel areas are already suppressed. Unless new units or areas defy him I don't see much changing right now

Also, Sky News has a good live feed going aswell at Sky News.

[The Romulan Republic]

Are you joking? That article is dated the 21st. of February.

[Patrick Degan]

Are you joking? That article is dated the 21st. of February.

Ouch —it got put up as "breaking" news at the site I picked it up from. And actually, the Telegraph webpage on which that was posted is dated for August 22nd. Very well, if a mod could delete it...

[PeZook]

Done

[ComradeClaus]

By my count that is 3 of them, other reporting that his loyalists are holed up in the Rixos Hotel, which is where I expect Ghaddafi to be hiding...a place NATO would never bomb.

No need to waste a bomb. A SWAT team could handle that at this point.

His days were numbered the moment the Security Council authorized military force. (but doesn't this mean that the members who abstained lose face?)

[Sea Skimmer]

Yea, but it seems to me Assad has a lot more muscle with alot of the military still behind him and most of the rebel areas are already suppressed. Unless new units or areas defy him I don't see much changing right now

Syria was and is simply a more equal country; by not having piles of oil they had to have something resembling a normal economy. It’s still incredibly corrupt, but it could just never be as dictator centric as Qaddafi could be by controlling virtually all finance. Also in Syria power is more widely shared within the regime, more family members and relatives are exercising real power then was the case in Libya. This is backed up by a government/political system which is very extensive and has more secret police then anyone could count all operating in a generally fascist highly organized style. Qaddafi meanwhile just wanted all power in his hands, and as little of anything else like government as possible. On top of that Assad has street credit for never backing down or really negotiating with anyone, unlike Qaddafi who flip flopped on every topic multiple times. Also while Assad's father seized power in a coup like Qaddafi did, in Syrias case it only came after a long string of coups by other people that left the country highly unstable. People were kind of just glad to have a stable dictatorship. Qaddafi meanwhile overthrew a corrupt king, but this is not so impressive. So you are really looking at two dictatorships which are very different sorts of regimes, and Syria is just innately stronger in every way except having massive piles of spare cash.

Syria does have a much stronger military, but its clear that most of the troops will not fight or at least not reliability enough to be trusted. That’s why we constantly see a shifting pattern of attacks on cities, Assad and buddies are shuffling around the loyal forces they do have from hot spot to hot spot. Its containing the protests, but inadequate to crush them. Its impossible to tell what affect this will really have on the Syrian situation at the moment. Libya could still have trouble for a long time to come, and until its secure and stable its not really something that's going to easily win over more Syrian's to the idea of supporting regime change.

[Sea Skimmer]

Looks like its not easy yet, tanks has emerged from the Bab al Aziziya and are involved in a major battle over the place with rebel troops. About 20% of the city is still in pro Qaddafi hands by rebel estimates.

[Zac Naloen]

From the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14611549

Libya conflict: Fighting rages near Gaddafi compound


Click to play

Resident Omar describes rebels celebrating and waving opposition flags on Green Square
Continue reading the main story
Libya Crisis

Battle for Tripoli Live
As it happened: Rebel push - Sunday
No easy endgame
Reactions as rebels reach Tripoli
Heavy fighting is taking place in Tripoli around the compound of embattled Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi after rebels seized control of much of the city on Sunday.

Throughout the night, jubilant crowds remained in central Green Square, previously the scene of nightly pro-Gaddafi demonstrations.

Rebels met little resistance as they swept in from east, south and west.

A rebel spokesman says pro-Gaddafi forces still control 15-20% of Tripoli.

The rebels also said they had captured Col Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam, but there is no word of the colonel's whereabouts.

Tanks emerged from Col Gaddafi's Bab al-Azizia compound early on Monday morning and began firing, a rebel spokesman said.

Sustained gunfire has been heard in the area.

Western leaders have welcomed the rebel advance and urged Col Gaddafi to go.

Flags torn down
Continue reading the main story
At the scene


Matthew Price
BBC News, Tripoli
The hotel where we and other foreign journalists are staying is still under the control of pro-Gaddafi guards, and we believe that they are now preparing to defend it from opposition forces.

There's been an awful lot of firing going on in recent hours in the area.

We believe there will some sort of rebel attempt to take the hotel because it's the place from which the Libyan information minister has been broadcasting his take on the conflict - it's also the place from where Libyan TV has recently been broadcasting its nightly shows from.

So it's one of the targets of the opposition forces. What's happening here is in sharp contrast to what's happening three miles - or 5km - down the road in Green Square, where there are jubilant scenes.

Inside the Rixos hotel
The BBC's Tripoli correspondent, Rana Jawad, who has been unable to report openly since March, says people in her neighbourhood in eastern Tripoli were woken by the imam at the local mosque singing the national anthem of the pre-Gaddafi monarchy.

There is very much a sense that the end is near and the rebels have achieved what they wanted, our correspondent says.

In Green Square - which is to return to its original name of Martyrs' Square - rebel supporters tore down the green flags of the Libyan government and trampled on portraits of Colonel Gaddafi.

"Tonight, the momentum against the Gaddafi regime has reached a tipping point. Tripoli is slipping from the grasp of a tyrant," said US President Barack Obama in a statement.

UK Prime Minister David Cameron, who is cutting short his holiday to chair a meeting of the National Security Council, said it was clear "that the end is near for Gaddafi".

Mr Cameron said the Libyan leader had "committed appalling crimes against the people of Libya and he must go now to avoid any further suffering for his own people".

The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for Col Gaddafi, his son Saif al-Islam, and the head of the intelligence service, Abdullah al-Sanussi, for crimes against humanity. ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo said he had been informed of Saif al-Islam's arrest.

Another of Col Gaddafi's sons, Muhammad, was speaking on the phone to al-Jazeera TV when he said the rebels were surrounding his home. Gunfire was heard before the line cut off.

A diplomatic source told the AFP news agency that Col Gaddafi could still be in Bab al-Azizia. He has not been seen in public since May, although he has broadcast audio messages from undisclosed locations.

TV footage showed Libyans kneeling and kissing the ground in gratitude for what some called a "blessed day".

'Pockets of resistance'


Click to play

Tripoli resident: "This is the victory moment right now"
In an audio message broadcast late on Sunday, the Libyan leader urged residents to "save Tripoli" from the rebels.

"How come you allow Tripoli, the capital, to be under occupation once again?" he asked. "The traitors are paving the way for the occupation forces to be deployed in Tripoli."

Libyan Information Minister Moussa Ibrahim told CNN that the Gaddafi government still had 65,000 loyal soldiers under its command.

However, some forces have surrendered to the rebels, including the special battalion charged with securing Tripoli.

The chairman of the rebel National Transitional Council (NTC) Mustafa Mohammed Abdul Jalil said early on Monday: "I warn you, there are still pockets of resistance in and around Tripoli."

Mr Ibrahim said fighting in the city since noon (10:00 GMT) on Sunday had left 1,300 people dead and 5,000 wounded. There is no confirmation of the figures.

Rebel forces advanced from the east and west in recent days, backed by Nato aircraft enforcing a UN resolution to protect civilians.



Click to play

Libyan Information Minister Moussa Ibrahim: ''Nato is attacking the heart of a peaceful civilian city''
During the day, one group of rebels had pushed in from the west while another set up checkpoints on the eastern outskirts.

It is clear there have been bloody battles in parts of Tripoli, the BBC's Matthew Price reports from the city.

The Libyan information minister accused Nato of backing "armed gangs" with air power. He added that the Gaddafi government was prepared to negotiate directly with the NTC.

Mr Jalil said the rebels would halt their offensive if Col Gaddafi announced his departure.

Speaking about Saif al-Islam Gaddafi's capture, Mr Jalil said he was "being kept in a secure place under close guard until he is handed over to the judiciary".

He added that rebel forces would give Col Gaddafi and his sons safe passage out of the country.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Another story, with some interesting (underlined) details:

Libyan rebels claim control of most of Tripoli

By KARIN LAUB and BEN HUBBARD
Associated Press

TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) -- Libyan rebels claimed to be in control of most of the Libyan capital on Monday after their lightning advance on Tripoli heralded the fall of Moammar Gadhafi's nearly 42-year regime, but scattered battles erupted and the mercurial leader's whereabouts remained unknown.

The international community called on Gadhafi to step down and moved ahead with post-war planning as euphoric residents celebrated in the Green Square, the symbolic heart of the Gadhafi regime, but colleagues warned he wouldn't go easily.

NATO promised to continue airstrikes until all pro-Gadhafi forces surrender or return to barracks.

The relative ease with which the rebels captured Tripoli in an hours-long blitz backed by NATO airstrikes showcased the evolution of the opposition fighters who first rose against the regime six months ago, swiftly capturing the eastern part of the vast North African nation but failing to muster enough punch to advance westward toward Tripoli even with the help of months of NATO airstrikes.

For months, the rebels were judged to be big on zeal but short on organization and discipline, but their stunning success in Tripoli showed a high level of planning, coordination and discipline.

In London, British Prime Minister David Cameron said frozen Libyan assets would soon be released to help the country's rebels establish order, saying Gadhafi's regime was "falling apart and in full retreat."

Rebel spokesman Mohammed Abdel-Rahman, who was in Tripoli, cautioned that pockets of resistance remained and that as long as Gadhafi remains on the run the "danger is still there."

Clashes broke out early Monday at Gadhafi's longtime command center known as Bab al-Aziziya early Monday when government tanks emerged from the complex and opened fire at rebels trying to get in, according to Abdel-Rahman and a neighbor. An AP reporter at the nearby Rixos Hotel where foreign journalists stay could hear gunfire and loud explosions from the direction of the complex.

Tripoli resident Moammar al-Warfali, whose family home is next to the compound, said there appeared to be only a few tanks belonging to the remaining Gadhafi forces that have not fled or surrendered.

"When I climb the stairs and look at it from the roof, I see nothing at Bab al-Aziziya," he said. "NATO has demolished it all and nothing remains."

The Rixos also remained under the control of Gadhafi forces, with two trucks loaded with anti-aircraft machine guns and pro-regime fighters and snipers posted behind trees. Rebels and Tripoli residents set up checkpoints elsewhere in the city.

The rebels' top diplomat in London, Mahmud Nacua, said clashes were continuing in Tripoli, but opposition forces controlled 95 percent of the city. He vowed Gadhafi would be found, saying "the fighters will turn over every stone to find him" and make sure he faced justice.

A rebel field commander said reinforcements were arriving at Tripoli by sea from the north as well as the south and the southeast.

"Our fighters are coming from all directions and, God willing, today we will liberate the whole city," the commander, Suleiman Sifaw, told The Associated Press.

State TV broadcast bitter audio pleas by Gadhafi for Libyans to defend his regime as the rebels advanced on Sunday. Opposition fighters captured his son and one-time heir apparent, Seif al-Islam, who along with his father faces charges of crimes against humanity at the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands. Another son was under house arrest.

Rebel chief Mustafa Abdel-Jalil vowed Monday to give Gadhafi a "fair trial with all legal guarantees" when captured.

"It's over, frizz-head," chanted hundreds of jubilant men and women massed in Green Square late Sunday, using a mocking nickname of the curly-haired Gadhafi. The revelers fired shots in the air, clapped and waved the rebels' tricolor flag. Some set fire to the green flag of Gadhafi's regime and shot holes in a poster with the leader's image.

But Gadhafi's defiance in a series of angry audio messages raised the possibility of a last-ditch fight over the capital, home to 2 million people. Gadhafi, who was not shown in the messages, called on his supporters to march in the streets of the capital and "purify it" of "the rats."

Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim also claimed the regime has "thousands and thousands of fighters" and vowed: "We will fight. We have whole cities on our sides. They are coming en masse to protect Tripoli to join the fight."

Gadhafi's former right-hand man, who defected last week to Italy, said the longtime leader would not go easily.

"I think it's impossible that he'll surrender," Abdel-Salam Jalloud said in an interview broadcast on Italian RAI state radio, adding that "He doesn't have the courage, like Hitler, to kill himself."

Jalloud, who was Gadhafi's closest aide for decades before falling out with the leader in the 1990s, fled Tripoli on Friday, according to rebels.

The startling rebel breakthrough, after a long deadlock in Libya's 6-month-old civil war, was the culmination of a closely coordinated plan by rebels, NATO and anti-Gadhafi residents inside Tripoli, rebel leaders said. Rebel fighters from the west swept over 20 miles (30 kilometers) in a matter of hours Sunday, taking town after town and overwhelming a major military base as residents poured out to cheer them. At the same time, Tripoli residents secretly armed by rebels rose up.

When rebels reached the gates of Tripoli, the special battalion entrusted by Gadhafi with guarding the capital promptly surrendered. The reason: Its commander, whose brother had been executed by Gadhafi years ago, was secretly loyal to the rebellion, a senior rebel official, Fathi al-Baja, told The Associated Press.

On Monday, rebels erected checkpoints on the western approaches to the city, handing out candy to passengers and inquiring about their destination. Cars leaving the city were subjected to more rigorous checks.

President Barack Obama said Libya is "slipping from the grasp of a tyrant" and urged Gadhafi to relinquish power to prevent more bloodshed.

"The future of Libya is now in the hands of the Libyan people," Obama said in a statement from Martha's Vineyard, where he's vacationing. He promised to work closely with rebels.

South Africa, which led failed African Union efforts to mediate between the rebels and Gadhafi, refused to offer support to the rebels on Monday, saying it wants to see a unity government put in place as a transitional authority. But speaking to reporters, Foreign Minister Maite Nkoana-Mashabane said she did not envision a role for Gadhafi on such a transitional body, saying he had told AU mediators four months ago he was ready to give up leadership.

Nkoana-Mashabane also said repeatedly that South Africa has sent no planes to Libya to evacuate Gadhafi, has received no request from him for asylum and is involved in no efforts to extricate him.

Nkoana-Mashabane also said, "We don't know his (Gadhafi's) whereabouts. We assume he is still in Libya."

The uprising against Gadhafi broke out in mid-February, inspired by successful revolts in Egypt and Tunisia, Libya's neighbors to the east and west respectively. A brutal regime crackdown quickly transformed the protests into an armed rebellion. Rebels seized Libya's east, setting up an internationally recognized transitional government there, and two pockets in the west, the port city of Misrata and the Nafusa mountain range.

Gadhafi clung to the remaining territory, and for months neither side had been able to break the other.

In early August, however, rebels launched an offensive from the Nafusa Mountains, then fought their way down to the Mediterranean coastal plain, backed by NATO airstrikes, and captured the strategic city of Zawiya.

The rebels' leadership council, based in Benghazi, sent out mobile text messages to Tripoli residents, proclaiming, "Long live Free Libya" and urging them to protect public property. Internet service returned to the capital for the first time in six months.

Gadhafi is the Arab world's longest-ruling, most erratic, most grimly fascinating leader - presiding over this North African desert nation with vast oil reserves and just 6 million people.

For years, he was an international pariah blamed for the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am jumbo jet over Lockerbie, Scotland, that killed 270 people. After years of denial, Gadhafi's Libya acknowledged responsibility, agreed to pay up to $10 million to relatives of each victim, and the Libyan rule declared he would dismantle his weapons of mass destruction program. That eased him back into the international community.

[Knife]

That's rather interesting, if true. Super duper battalion surrendering because the commander threw his lot in with the rebels.

[ComradeClaus]

He put a guy who's brother he killed in charge of a unit guarding the capital?!

It's pathetic that he thinks the people will fight for him, even most of his lackeys now won't fight since they'll just get wiped out by NATO airstrikes.

[CaptainChewbacca]

The execution may have been so long ago that the link wasn't known. People were executed under Gadaffi for a variety of reasons over decades, it may be that the commander's brother was killed 15 years ago for graffiti tagging. We just don't know.

[fnord]

And who's to say the rebels that shake out when the dust settles (old scores, intertribal conflict, etc) will be any better than the current incumbent?

[Soontir C'boath]

And who's to say the rebels that shake out when the dust settles (old scores, intertribal conflict, etc) will be any better than the current incumbent?

And who's to say if Gadaffi continues to rule he'll actually be better than the wrong things that may happen under a different and fledgling government or that when he dies that his son will be any better as well?

Frankly, I hate this question because it means you would rather take what you have now than try to fight for something better. Yes it's a risk and apparently one many of the Libyan people have been willing to take for months now.

[Tribun]

As far as news go, two of Gaddafi's sons managed to escape before they could be shipped out of Tripoli. One of them of course boasted it was supposed to be a trap, but that's obvious bullshit. I sincerely doubt after all that it is a good tactic to have your enemies take over 3/4 of your stronghold. To make things worse for Gaddafi, according to reports, the road from Al-Khums is now free and reinforcements come from that side as well, and also by sea, not to speak of all the weapons looted from the Khamis HQ. Right now NATO is bombing the shit out of his fortress.

[Sea Skimmer]

It doesn't look like the rebels ever held Saif al-Islam, I was always very surprised by the claim. It was also claimed at points that Saadi Gaddafi was captured along with him.
Saif is his dads right hand man, he really would only be expected to be in some kind of secure position, capture seemed far too good to be true. Muhammad Gaddafi meanwhile had important roles but much less of an executive position in the regime. Doesn't seem to have been super interested in power which is likely a major reason why he was at his own house when captured giving an interview on TV (giving away his position! Not clever) rather then out rallying resistance against the rebels.

Random claims have been made that bodies have been found in a building ruined by air attacks that might be Khamis Qaddafi and several of his ranking officers. Of course Kamis has been claimed dead at least five times in as many months.

[Raptor 597]

Apparently Saif Gaddafi has not been captured after all. The confusion in the capitol seems to be only increasing. Article

[Steven Snyder]

Rebels are saying that they did capture him, but somehow he escaped.

As far as Saif's claim that this is all an elaborate trap for the rebels, well...I feel a bit of deja-vu here, this seems to be like the trap for the rebels in RoTJ...which didn't turn out so good for the regime there either.

[Tribun]

This picture is fresh from Tripoli showing what happened at Gaddafi's fortress.


I guess the Rebels finally decided to use the big guns (they surely captured them) and managed to blow open the western gate. Figting is now moving to Baab Aziziya area itself.

[CJvR]

Woah!

Probably NATO bombs rather than rebel artillery, spectacular!

[xerex]

Found on another site , the Bab Aziziya compund. judging by the cars this place is damn huge.

http://i53.tinypic.com/262msk0.jpg

[Tribun]

Found on another site , the Bab Aziziya compund. judging by the cars this place is damn huge.

http://i53.tinypic.com/262msk0.jpg

It IS huge. According to measurements, its 6km² big.

[Tribun]

Update: Rebels have breached the walls and are storming the compound. Since it is huge, that will take some time. If Gaddafi is still there, he's fucked now.