Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China.
US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi arrived in Taiwan on Tuesday night in a move that could significantly escalate tensions with China, which claims the self-ruled island as its own territory.

Third in line for the presidency after Joe Biden and vice-president Kamala Harris, she became the highest ranking US official to visit Taiwan in 25 years when she landed in the capital Taipei at 10:45pm local time.

Ms Pelosi, 82, arrived at Songshan airport, in the city's downtown, and was greeted by foreign minister Joseph Wu and the top US representative in Taiwan, Sandra Oudkirk.

On Tuesday night, Taiwan's tallest building, Taipei 101, lit up with messages including: "Welcome to Taiwan", "Speaker Pelosi", "Taiwan (heart) USA".

"Our congressional delegation's visit to Taiwan honors America's unwavering commitment to supporting Taiwan's vibrant democracy," the US House of Representatives speaker said in a statement after landing.

"America's solidarity with the 23 million people of Taiwan is more important today than ever, as the world faces a choice between autocracy and democracy."

Despite being welcomed by many, barricades had to be erected outside the Grand Hyatt Hotel in Taipei where Ms Pelosi, a long time critic of Beijing, was due to stay amid heightened security concerns.

China views visits by foreign government officials as recognition of the island’s sovereignty, with Beijing threatening retaliation ahead of the visit, driving concerns of a new crisis in the Taiwan Strait.

Shortly after Ms Pelosi’s arrival, a representative of the Chinese legislature’s Standing Committee issued a statement saying the trip “severely violated” the “One China principle,” which is Beijing’s claim to be the sole government of both mainland China and Taiwan.

As ITV News Asia Correspondent Debi Edward notes, China has now announced it will conduct live-fire drills from Thursday to Sunday in the waters surrounding Taiwan.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry has released a statement saying no matter who Ms Pelosi meets or what she does her visit is a major provocation.

“The Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is on high alert and will launch a series of targeted military operations to counter this, resolutely defend national sovereignty and territorial integrity, and resolutely thwart external interference and ‘Taiwan independence’ separatist attempts,” China's ministry of defence said in a statement condemning the trip.

Before Ms Pelosi's arrival, unidentified hackers launched a cyberattack on the Taiwanese Presidential Office’s website, making it temporarily unavailable on Tuesday evening.

The Presidential Office said the website was restored shortly after the attack, which overwhelmed it with traffic.
“China thinks by launching a multi-domain pressure campaign against Taiwan, the people of Taiwan will be be intimidated. But they are wrong,” Wang Ting-yu, a legislator with the Democratic Progressive Party, said on Twitter in response to the incident.

A plane carrying Ms Pelosi, who is on an Asian tour this week, and her delegation left Malaysia on Tuesday after a brief stop, which included a working lunch with the country’s prime minister, Ismail Sabri Yaakob.

The stop to Taipei was unannounced and reportedly not included on the official itinerary of the highly-anticipated diplomatic tour, which included Singapore, Japan, Malaysia, and South Korea.

The Biden administration did not explicitly urge Pelosi to call off the visit - but sought to assure Beijing it would not signal any change in American policy on Taiwan.

Although it has no official diplomatic relations with Taiwan, the US is bound by American law to provide the island with the means to defend itself.

As relations between Washington and Beijing deteriorate, there have been reports of high levels of movement and preparations among the Chinese, Taiwanese and US militaries.

Four US warships were stationed in waters east of Taiwan on what the American Navy described as routine deployments.

Meanwhile, several Chinese warplanes flew close to the line dividing the Taiwan Strait on Tuesday morning, before leaving later in the day, a source told Reuters.

Since last week, China's PLA has been stepping up displays of military strength.

Live-fire drills in the South China Sea, Yellow Sea and Bohai Sea were among the exercises carried out.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

Post by ray245 »

There'll be some diplomatic uproar and overtime it will die down. That's the norm for Taiwan-China issues.

Although what's been downplayed a lot is there are a number of anti-Pelosi protest going around. Some probably funded by CCP sources, but there are indeed some that do feel annoyed by her arrival in Taiwan.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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ray245 wrote: 2022-08-02 06:18pm Although what's been downplayed a lot is there are a number of anti-Pelosi protest going around. Some probably funded by CCP sources, but there are indeed some that do feel annoyed by her arrival in Taiwan.
True, but on the upside one can even point to anti-Pelosi protests and say it's a benefit of not suppressing speech. Everyone had a say, and life goes on.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

Post by ray245 »

Gandalf wrote: 2022-08-02 08:21pm
ray245 wrote: 2022-08-02 06:18pm Although what's been downplayed a lot is there are a number of anti-Pelosi protest going around. Some probably funded by CCP sources, but there are indeed some that do feel annoyed by her arrival in Taiwan.
True, but on the upside one can even point to anti-Pelosi protests and say it's a benefit of not suppressing speech. Everyone had a say, and life goes on.
Yeah, but my point was to merely highlight Taiwanese aren't universally welcoming her visit.

Some do feel her visit was unnecessary and might not have helped Taiwan in the long run.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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China announces live military exercises in territorial waters of Taiwan. And yes, this is legitimate grounds for Taiwan to defend their claimed borders with armed force, although I doubt it'll come to that. This is a move designed to put the ball back in Taiwan's court - "Oh, you want to act like a sovereign state? Go ahead, defend your borders - I dare you"

This isn't business as usual, this is the beginning of a period of heightened tensions. The foundation of US-China relations is based on the Three Communiques, in which the US basically switches recognition and promises they'll stop treating ROC/Taiwan like an official state, maintaining only unofficial relations. Fast forward and the US makes noises about adhering to it but sends Congressional delegations, tears up the previous State Department rules, etc, making "unofficial" relations indistinguishable in both form and function from official ones. Pelosi's visit - as House Speaker and 2nd in line of succession - is viewed by China not in isolation but as a signal that the US is unwilling to honor it's commitment.

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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

Post by wautd »

I'm all for a free and independent democratic Taiwan but this visit seems to be counter productive.
I see this more damaging to both Biden's administriation (Pelosi going when Biden preferred not to makes him look weak) and Taiwan (which is at the risk of China's backlash, case in point: China already taking economic sanctions)
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

Post by AniThyng »

A message making the rounds on WhatsApp tells us this was a ploy by Biden to provoke china to attack, which china did not take because they play the long game.

I can see how that plays well to a pro Chinese audience
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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wautd wrote: 2022-08-03 04:41am I'm all for a free and independent democratic Taiwan but this visit seems to be counter productive.
I see this more damaging to both Biden's administriation (Pelosi going when Biden preferred not to makes him look weak) and Taiwan (which is at the risk of China's backlash, case in point: China already taking economic sanctions)
Actual welfare of the Taiwanese are rarely taken into account. Taiwan is ultimately treated as a pawn by both China and US.

The most frustrating thing about it all is most Taiwanese are happy with the status quo, because aside from some relatively minor inconveniences, the status quo allows Taiwan to be a de facto independent state in every shape or form.

But the western media tends to downplay the whole happy with status quo and have a tendency or bias to interview those who are more pro-formal independence.

AniThyng wrote: 2022-08-03 08:29am A message making the rounds on WhatsApp tells us this was a ploy by Biden to provoke china to attack, which china did not take because they play the long game.

I can see how that plays well to a pro Chinese audience
It's more Pelosi and Biden in my opinion. And a lot of that has more to do with mid-term elections in both the US and Taiwan. Even KMT in Taiwan felt they had to welcome Pelosi because they'll lose too many votes if they are seen as too anti-US and too pro-China.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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Really sounds like the ukraine and russia of asia.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-05 02:52pm Really sounds like the ukraine and russia of asia.
With the difference being the Strait of Taiwan rather than a gigantic land border. Otherwise the PRC would have ground Taiwan beneath its boot a long time ago.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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Chinese MFA announces cancelation/suspension of several China-US initiatives, notably including direct lines of military consultations. Drone and ballistic missile overflights of Taiwanese territory. South Korean president wants no part of this, declines meeting with Pelosi. ASEAN calls for restraint on all sides, with member states reaffirming their One China stance.

I think this is the beginning of a strategic pushback, not a one-time warning. Escalation/risk is the point, China wants to signal its seriousness and willingness to act on this issue. Nobody wants armed conflict and we're a ways from that, but it's a very bad dynamic and this is uncharted territory.

Taiwan lost more than it gained from this visit. All they got out of it was a photo op with a politician on her way out and now they have to contend with China pushing boundaries.

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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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Exonerate wrote: 2022-08-06 12:38am I think this is the beginning of a strategic pushback, not a one-time warning. Escalation/risk is the point, China wants to signal its seriousness and willingness to act on this issue. Nobody wants armed conflict and we're a ways from that, but it's a very bad dynamic and this is uncharted territory.

Taiwan lost more than it gained from this visit. All they got out of it was a photo op with a politician on her way out and now they have to contend with China pushing boundaries.
Pelosi is just a shit Taiwanese ally. She doesn't care about Taiwan, just mostly trying to annoy China.

And before you can say the Taiwanese allowed her to visit, the reality was that they are in a no-win scenario. Reject Pelosi and people will say they are bowing down to China's pressure in the midst of an election cycle.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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Exonerate wrote: 2022-08-06 12:38am Taiwan lost more than it gained from this visit. All they got out of it was a photo op with a politician on her way out and now they have to contend with China pushing boundaries.
They should ally more closely with the west while there is time, or go to china, with the lessons of Ukraine we can see those are ultimately the choices they have but don't want to take. This trying to balance between east and west won't work forever, soon a clash will be coming between china/russia and the west and Taiwan should consider on which side it wants to be.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-06 10:26am
Exonerate wrote: 2022-08-06 12:38am Taiwan lost more than it gained from this visit. All they got out of it was a photo op with a politician on her way out and now they have to contend with China pushing boundaries.
They should ally more closely with the west while there is time, or go to china, with the lessons of Ukraine we can see those are ultimately the choices they have but don't want to take. This trying to balance between east and west won't work forever, soon a clash will be coming between china/russia and the west and Taiwan should consider on which side it wants to be.
Stop forcing countries to choose sides. That's essentially western imperialism at work again.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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I have friends that live in Taiwan, China can suck it. They have been aggressively trying to loophole their way into more territory for years in the South China Sea by creating islands and slowly moving the border with India, just like trump did with the sharpie. Not to mention their ongoing genocide and imperialistic crap they are pulling with all their neighbors: Tibet and India to name a couple.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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Zwinmar wrote: 2022-08-06 12:17pm I have friends that live in Taiwan, China can suck it. They have been aggressively trying to loophole their way into more territory for years in the South China Sea by creating islands and slowly moving the border with India, just like trump did with the sharpie. Not to mention their ongoing genocide and imperialistic crap they are pulling with all their neighbors: Tibet and India to name a couple.
I am half-Taiwanese. My family like my grandma and uncles and aunts are all there.

But despite that, I feel westerners are more upset about this whole thing than actual Taiwanese.

I find a lot of westerners very patronising.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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ray245 wrote: 2022-08-06 12:02pm
His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-06 10:26am
Exonerate wrote: 2022-08-06 12:38am Taiwan lost more than it gained from this visit. All they got out of it was a photo op with a politician on her way out and now they have to contend with China pushing boundaries.
They should ally more closely with the west while there is time, or go to china, with the lessons of Ukraine we can see those are ultimately the choices they have but don't want to take. This trying to balance between east and west won't work forever, soon a clash will be coming between china/russia and the west and Taiwan should consider on which side it wants to be.
Stop forcing countries to choose sides. That's essentially western imperialism at work again.
We're gonna have a confrontation with China sooner or later. Taiwan will get gobbled up by China when that happens unless they take steps to correct it. They can do as they like though, it's just what it is.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-06 01:03pm
ray245 wrote: 2022-08-06 12:02pm
His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-06 10:26am

They should ally more closely with the west while there is time, or go to china, with the lessons of Ukraine we can see those are ultimately the choices they have but don't want to take. This trying to balance between east and west won't work forever, soon a clash will be coming between china/russia and the west and Taiwan should consider on which side it wants to be.
Stop forcing countries to choose sides. That's essentially western imperialism at work again.
We're gonna have a confrontation with China sooner or later. Taiwan will get gobbled up by China when that happens unless they take steps to correct it. They can do as they like though, it's just what it is.
You can expect the Seventh Fleet will be at the heart of such a thing.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-06 01:03pm We're gonna have a confrontation with China sooner or later. Taiwan will get gobbled up by China when that happens unless they take steps to correct it. They can do as they like though, it's just what it is.
A confrontation means a lot more dead Taiwanese than western civilians. So kindly fuck off about wanting a confrontation.

The best solution is to preserve the status quo indefinitely, and life is Taiwan is generally benefitting from maintaining the status quo.

Westerners want war over Taiwan more so than actual Taiwanese.

You just want to kill off my family.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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Yup you got me there

Seriously, get real. I don't have to like or dislike anything, more importantly it doesn't matter what I think or don't think. What's gonna happen is gonna happen. The world is going to war eventually as globalized capitalism and climate change makes it inevitable. The world is spinning apart more every year and it will only get worse.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-06 03:59pm Yup you got me there

Seriously, get real. I don't have to like or dislike anything, more importantly it doesn't matter what I think or don't think. What's gonna happen is gonna happen. The world is going to war eventually as globalized capitalism and climate change makes it inevitable. The world is spinning apart more every year and it will only get worse.
Idiots like you in public discourse are the people that will result in a war breaking out, with no real desire for de-escalation. The idea that war or confrontation is inevitable is the kind of warmongering scum that will result in a war breaking out.

Because there are times when Taiwan and China did have good relations. Sometimes its bad, sometimes it good. Except Western Media completely ignores all the times when relationship between the two countries are good.

If you're an idiot about the issue, stop adding more stupidity to the mix. Pouring fuel to the fire will only make life worse.

Stay the fuck away and let people with actual invested stakes handle the issue. Not someone sitting comfortably in their room even if a war does break out in Asia.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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Get fucked
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-06 04:12pm Get fucked
So you're telling my family in Taiwan to die then? Get fucked yourself.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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It was just you personally. Because you are being too fucking stupid to talk to.
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Re: Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan despite retaliation warnings from China

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His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-06 04:26pm It was just you personally. Because you are being too fucking stupid to talk to.
So you're telling me to die then? Got it.

What a pathetic person that has no argument to make.
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