Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

[ray245]

I have got to say, as a finnish person we've lived all our lives with the thread of Russia on our borders and the idea has always been that if they attack, they'll steamroll us and our tactic basically to make them bleed for it, basically make the price so high it no longer seems palatable.

But after seeing the Russian army in action and learning just how hollow a shell it is of the red army that was. I don't really fear a russian attack anymore, I now believe if they tried, we'd curbstomp them so incredibly hard.

Let's not forget Russian army did well in 2014. The reason why Ukraine is resisting so successfully now was because their army was reformed after 2014.

[Ralin]

I feel like it's probably a mistake to dismiss the competence and strength of the Russian military overall based all the fuckups in this particular invasion. They seem to be suffering from horribly inadequate supplies and logistics as much as anything else. Which is more than enough to lose a war, but it's a fixable problem.

[ray245]

I feel like it's probably a mistake to dismiss the competence and strength of the Russian military overall based all the fuckups in this particular invasion. They seem to be suffering from horribly inadequate supplies and logistics as much as anything else. Which is more than enough to lose a war, but it's a fixable problem.

Except they will face all sorts of economic sanctions that prevents them from adequately rebuilding the Russian army. Their ability to get new jets will not be easy, and the same can be said about manufacturing all sort of other tanks and armoured vehicles.

Russian military industry complex is not structured like its Soviet counterparts. A lot of their newer stuff depends heavily on imports. You can't build a military system with modern electronics when the main chips manufacturer refuses to export its chips to you.

[Ralin]

Except they will face all sorts of economic sanctions that prevents them from adequately rebuilding the Russian army. Their ability to get new jets will not be easy, and the same can be said about manufacturing all sort of other tanks and armoured vehicles.

Russian military industry complex is not structured like its Soviet counterparts. A lot of their newer stuff depends heavily on imports. You can't build a military system with modern electronics when the main chips manufacturer refuses to export its chips to you.

But they can sure as hell fix the issue of the people responsible for maintaining their tires and keeping their troops supplied consisting mainly of conscripts with low morale and little reason to expect consequences if they slack off or get corrupt.

[Col. Crackpot]

I have got to say, as a finnish person we've lived all our lives with the thread of Russia on our borders and the idea has always been that if they attack, they'll steamroll us and our tactic basically to make them bleed for it, basically make the price so high it no longer seems palatable.

But after seeing the Russian army in action and learning just how hollow a shell it is of the red army that was. I don't really fear a russian attack anymore, I now believe if they tried, we'd curbstomp them so incredibly hard.

Let's not forget Russian army did well in 2014. The reason why Ukraine is resisting so successfully now was because their army was reformed after 2014.

So when they have to fight a real, effective and motivated army as opposed to Syrian partisans they get their ass kicked. Imagine them trying to fight someone like Finland. A nation with a thoroughly modern army and a history of kicking Russian ass.

[ray245]

Except they will face all sorts of economic sanctions that prevents them from adequately rebuilding the Russian army. Their ability to get new jets will not be easy, and the same can be said about manufacturing all sort of other tanks and armoured vehicles.

Russian military industry complex is not structured like its Soviet counterparts. A lot of their newer stuff depends heavily on imports. You can't build a military system with modern electronics when the main chips manufacturer refuses to export its chips to you.

But they can sure as hell fix the issue of the people responsible for maintaining their tires and keeping their troops supplied consisting mainly of conscripts with low morale and little reason to expect consequences if they slack off or get corrupt.

But they can't replace the lost troops and equipment. They will have to find new trucks and tanks and etc, but they will be forced to be using even older equipment, with possibly even more issues.

So when they have to fight a real, effective and motivated army as opposed to Syrian partisans they get their ass kicked. Imagine them trying to fight someone like Finland. A nation with a thoroughly modern army and a history of kicking Russian ass.

It's clear that the Russian army is no match in a straight ground war with NATO or NATO equivalent forces. My point was that it's not that Russian military is hollow as a whole. They can conduct capable military expeditions, as long as their rivals are clearly inferior.

So it's an army good for what it does, smacking small countries with underequipped military. The mistake made by Putin was thinking Ukraine as a whole is just like Georgia and etc.

The "good" thing that came out of this war in Ukraine is that Russian had just eroded their military for the next decade or so. They have lost a huge amount of expensive equipment, and now their economy is in no shape to further fund their shiny next-gen equipment like the SU-57 and warships.

The Russian navy is most likely to be destroyed with their current ships slowing eroding away and there is no funds to replace them with future warships. Their airforce will not be a capable peer-threat against NATO planes.

[Gandalf]

So when they have to fight a real, effective and motivated army as opposed to Syrian partisans they get their ass kicked. Imagine them trying to fight someone like Finland. A nation with a thoroughly modern army and a history of kicking Russian ass.

George W Putin is learning that when you have an army built for one purpose, having it do another just leads to all sorts of problems. Weirdly, it's like the first few years of the US and friends in Iraq. They went from "unstoppable" to "uh oh" and now it looks like they're in the early part of "quagmire."

Hopefully when this is resolved it leads to proper reforms in Russia, but I'm not holding my breath.

[ray245]

So when they have to fight a real, effective and motivated army as opposed to Syrian partisans they get their ass kicked. Imagine them trying to fight someone like Finland. A nation with a thoroughly modern army and a history of kicking Russian ass.

George W Putin is learning that when you have an army built for one purpose, having it do another just leads to all sorts of problems. Weirdly, it's like the first few years of the US and friends in Iraq. They went from "unstoppable" to "uh oh" and now it looks like they're in the early part of "quagmire."

Hopefully when this is resolved it leads to proper reforms in Russia, but I'm not holding my breath.

I do wonder if we have reached a stage where it's nearly impossible for any army today to successfully occupy a middle-sized country. US never achieved a strong degree of control in Iraq and Afghanistan even after years of occupation. Russia is most likely going to fail in Ukraine.

Modern armies have largely downsized as lethality of weapons increased due to technological advances. But there is no way a small army can occupy a mid-sized country with a largish hostile population.

You need large scale WW2 level of mobilisation if one is to have enough men to even occupy a hostile country.

[Zwinmar]

A big part of it is that the modern military is not being used for the mission it was built for. They want to blitz and have an end run around everyone rather than build a base and grow out from there. You have to get the populace on your side by bringing law and order and not being a complete dick, but we know some are utterly incapable of that.

[Col. Crackpot]

Weirdly, it's like the first few years of the US and friends in Iraq. They went from "unstoppable" to "uh oh" and now it looks like they're in the early part of "quagmire."

Amazingly it went to shit in less than two weeks. It took the US years to get to this level of shit show. And our tanks always had gas.

[Solauren]

Also, alot of Russian troops also know the entire stated reason for the invasion is utter bullshit.

That gives them motivation to, when they get the chance, go 'fuck it', and abandon equipment and take off, or to surrender.

I bet if the Ukraine started offering bounties on surrendering Russian troops and forces, you'd see the entire advance quickly break-down to Putin screaming at people to do their job, with former Russian soldiers and military joining the Ukraine or going somewhere else.

[LadyTevar]

Ukraine war: Pregnant woman and baby die after hospital shelled

A pregnant woman wounded in the Russian bombing of a Ukrainian maternity hospital has died along with her baby, reports say.

Images showed her on a stretcher following the air strike in Mariupol last Wednesday, in which at least three other people were killed.

After the place where she was meant to give birth was attacked, she was taken to another hospital.

Her baby was born by Caesarean section, but showed no signs of life.

The surgeon, Timur Marin, told the Associated Press news agency that the woman's pelvis had been crushed and her hip detached.

Medics said that as they were trying to save her life, she realised she was losing her baby and shouted, "Kill me now!"

When it became clear to them that the child was stillborn, they tried to resuscitate the mother, but realised after 30 minutes that it was hopeless.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Russia strikes Kyiv apartment block as talks end with little progress made.

One person died and three were hospitalised after a Russian shell destroyed a nine-storey residential block in Kyiv overnight, officials have said.

After a night of death and destruction in the capital's northwest, negotiations resumed between Russia and Ukraine but were paused later in the day with little progress made.

Russian forces struck a large apartment block early in the morning, the state emergency service said. In another statement hours later, the death toll was revised from two to one. A school, nursery and sports track were nearby the building.

The Russians killed two more people after striking an aircraft factory, located around 11 kilometres northwest of Kyiv, city authorities said. The factory in Antonov, also known as Hostomel, is Ukraine’s largest aircraft manufacturing plant and is best known for producing many of the world’s biggest cargo planes.

Away from Kyiv, strikes occurred overnight on the northwest towns of Irpin and Bucha and Hostomel. The areas have seen some of the worst fighting in Russia’s stalled attempt to take the capital.

A town councillor for Brovary, east of Kyiv, was killed in fighting there, officials said.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Russian protester Marina Osvyannikova fined £200 after interrupting live news bulletin.

A Russian state media employee who held up a placard during a live broadcast denouncing Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, has been fined 30,000 rubles (around £200) after being found guilty of breaking protest laws.

But it is not yet clear whether Marina Osvyannikova could face further punishment for her protest, a move the Kremlin called an act of "hooliganism".

There had been fears she could be imprisoned for 15 years, the maximum punishment for the new law under which she was prosecuted.

Ms Osvyannikova told reporters after leaving court that she was exhausted after being questioned for 14 hours and was not provided with legal assistance, adding that she would need a rest before commenting further.

Earlier on Tuesday, Ms Osvyannikova's lawyer, Anton Gashinsky, shared a picture he took with her at Moscow's Ostankino District Court.

Her legal representatives had earlier told ITV News Editor Emma Burrows that it was "impossible to get in touch with her," and believed that her phone had been taken away.

Russian troops take patients and doctors hostage in Mariupol hospital as thousands of civilians flee.

Patients and doctors in a Mariupol hospital are being held "like hostages" by Russian soldiers, a regional governor has said as he appealed for help from outside Ukraine.

Pavlo Kyrylenko, the head of the Ukrainian military administration in the Donetsk region, appealed to international human rights organisations to respond to what he called "crimes against humanity".

Ukrainian children at a shelter in Poland bear the invisible injuries of war
"It's impossible to get out of the hospital," Mr Kyrylenko wrote in a Telegram post. "They're shooting hard, we sit in the basement."

He went on: "Cars can't drive to the hospital for two days already. High-rise buildings are burning around. Russians drove 400 people from neighbouring houses into our hospital. We can't get out."

Mr Kyrylenko posted a picture of what the regional intensive care hospital looked like before it was "practically destroyed".

Two journalists killed in attack while reporting in Ukraine.

Two journalists have been killed while reporting in Ukraine on Russia's invasion.

Veteran war photographer and camera operator Pierre Zakrzewski and young Ukrainian producer and fixer Oleksandra Kuvshynova, also known as Sasha, were killed on Monday in Horenka, about 12 miles outside of the Ukrainian capital Kyiv.

The pair are thought to have been killed after the vehicle they were travelling in was struck by incoming fire while they were newsgathering.

British journalist Benjamin Hall, who also works for Fox News, was with the pair at the time and was wounded in the attack. He remains in hospital.

Fox News CEO Suzanne Scott said on Tuesday: "It is with great sadness and a heavy heart that we share the news this morning regarding our beloved cameraman Pierre Zakrzewski."

There's also talk of Ukraine giving up its quest for NATO membership in an effort to appease the Russians in negotiation, hopefully that's just a rumour.

[LadyTevar]

At least some of NATO has balls:

European Leaders travel to Kyiv

Ukraine has praised the courage of three European leaders who made a long, hazardous journey by rail from Poland to Kyiv in a show of support as the city came under further Russian attack.

The prime ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic met Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday evening as a curfew began in Kyiv.

The trip was a Polish idea, after the EU warned of potential security risks.

The Czech prime minister said Ukraine was fighting for its freedom.

"We admire your brave fight," Petr Fiala wrote in a tweet after the meeting. "We know that you're also fighting for our lives. You're not alone, our countries stand by your side."

Poland's Mateusz Morawiecki said that Europe would never be the same if it lost Ukraine. Instead, he wrote, it would be a "defeated, humiliated and pathetic version of its former self".

Mr Morawiecki, Mr Fiala, and Slovenia's Janez Jansa are the first international leaders to visit President Volodymyr Zelensky since Russia unleashed war on its neighbour on 24 February.

"Your visit is a powerful expression of support for Ukraine," the president is quoted as telling the group.

Ukraine's Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal wrote on Twitter that "devastating" sanctions against Russia had been discussed, including the "recognition of Russia as a sponsor of terrorism".

As the talks took place, loud explosions could be heard across Kyiv from fighting on the western edge of the capital.

The European Union said the politicians were not carrying any particular mandate, but that leaders in Brussels were aware of the trip, as it was mentioned during an informal EU summit in Versailles, France, last week.

Poland's deputy foreign minister Marcin Przydacz admitted the trip was risky, but said it was "worth taking for the sake of values". He said they had told the Russians the visit was taking place.

The leaders decided to travel by train because flying by Polish military jet could have been viewed by Russia as dangerously provocative, BBC Europe editor Katya Adler reports. It was not immediately clear when their train would make the return trip to Warsaw.

Ukraine's president has repeatedly called on Nato to impose a no-fly zone over his country's airspace, but Nato has refused.

Mr Zelensky said Ukrainians now understood they could not join Nato. "We have heard for years that the doors were open, but we also heard that we could not join. It's a truth and it must be recognised. I am glad that our people are beginning to understand this and rely on themselves and our partners who help us."

[His Divine Shadow]

It's now clear what Ukraina must do. Ukraina must immediately invade Poland.

Zelensky needs to go on TV and say they are planning to conquer all of western europe. This will require NATO to enter Ukraina and take over the whole country.

Then after Ukraina surrenders to NATO Zelensky is pardoned but just incase he gets any ideas NATO troops will remain in Ukraine.

Brilliant. You tell me a problem that cannot be solved by invading Poland.

[GuppyShark]

Someone promote this man!

[Juubi Karakuchi]

Zelensky offering to stay out of NATO is actually a clever move.

Even if he were to do so, Ukraine could still join the EU; or at least move into its economic orbit. This would allow Ukraine to rebuild its economy and create an army strong enough to keep Russia out; bearing in mind how badly the Russian forces have performed. Also, it'll take a good while for Russia just to restore its prewar capabilities, let alone actually improve on them.

So it's fairly likely that Putin will refuse and demand even more concessions. If he does so, Zelensky can say that he tried.

[Bedlam]

It's now clear what Ukraina must do. Ukraina must immediately invade Poland.

Zelensky needs to go on TV and say they are planning to conquer all of western europe. This will require NATO to enter Ukraina and take over the whole country.

Then after Ukraina surrenders to NATO Zelensky is pardoned but just incase he gets any ideas NATO troops will remain in Ukraine.

Brilliant. You tell me a problem that cannot be solved by invading Poland.

Afterall about 2 million of his citizens have already crossed the boarder.

[Solauren]

It's now clear what Ukraina must do. Ukraina must immediately invade Poland.

Zelensky needs to go on TV and say they are planning to conquer all of western europe. This will require NATO to enter Ukraina and take over the whole country.

Then after Ukraina surrenders to NATO Zelensky is pardoned but just incase he gets any ideas NATO troops will remain in Ukraine.

Brilliant. You tell me a problem that cannot be solved by invading Poland.

Unless Russia goes 'now we have to protect the people in Poland from Zelensky too...' and launches troops into Poland, disregarding NATO altogether.

[Broomstick]

Putin may disregard NATO... but NATO will not disregard such an action.

[Lord Revan]

And Putin is many things but suicidally stupid isn't one of those things, he knows very well what would happen if he angered NATO enough to start a war with Russia and why that would be very very bad thing for him and Russia.

[Solauren]

And Putin is many things but suicidally stupid isn't one of those things, he knows very well what would happen if he angered NATO enough to start a war with Russia and why that would be very very bad thing for him and Russia.

And the rest of the world if Putin can convince his highest level people not to shot him (for as long as he needed to launch Nuclear Weapons)

[EnterpriseSovereign]

And Putin is many things but suicidally stupid isn't one of those things, he knows very well what would happen if he angered NATO enough to start a war with Russia and why that would be very very bad thing for him and Russia.

If he didn't before his military were shown to be third-rate, he does now.

[Lord Revan]

And Putin is many things but suicidally stupid isn't one of those things, he knows very well what would happen if he angered NATO enough to start a war with Russia and why that would be very very bad thing for him and Russia.

And the rest of the world if Putin can convince his highest level people not to shot him (for as long as he needed to launch Nuclear Weapons)

True but Putin probably couldn't give rat's ass about rest of the world but he does care about himself and he needs Russia for his own goals.

EDIT:My point is that Putin is gonna avoid things that have very high risk of getting him killed and pissing of NATO enough for them to go to war isn't so much a "high risk" as it is a "promise" of Putin being killed, whether rest of the world (or at least most of it) will follow him to the grave is another question.