Trump/Republican Coup Thread

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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by LaCroix »

Kentucky does not have a recall or any other remedy in their constitution, methinks.
If they are pissed enough, they could enter such a provision into an amendment.

The other way they could do that would be to petition the GOP senators to go for an expulsion (which the Dems probably would vote for). They need to come up with a reason for that, but I assume that it would be trivial to find something to stick on Mitch.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Knife »

bilateralrope wrote: 2021-02-18 09:11pm If there are enough of them, can't they kick him out of the Senate Minority Leader position ?
Yes, which would be hilarious. McConnell is a piece of shit, but he understands the Senate. It would be funny if they out him and some loon becomes Minority Leader.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Broomstick »

Um... I've had quite enough of lunatic-in-government these past four years. Can we try something different, like competence? Please?
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Tribble »

Broomstick wrote: 2021-02-19 07:39pm Um... I've had quite enough of lunatic-in-government these past four years. Can we try something different, like competence? Please?
Does anybody seriously believe that Republicans are going to moderate? 'Cause it looks to me like the lesson they are learning is "purge everyone who refuses to back their fascist takeover, and change the laws to make sure their fascist takeover happens".

I mean, you know things are headed south when Mitch McConnell is being branded a traitor for having the audacity to complain when Trump incited the mob attack that could have killed him. How dare he ?!
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Eulogy »

It's not a lesson they have learned so much as the mask finally being torn off for all to see and this latest shitshow is a particularly big strip of said mask.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by bilateralrope »

US Supreme Court paves way for release of Donald Trump's tax returns
Donald Trump suffered a major setback on Monday in his long quest to conceal details of his finances as the US Supreme Court paved the way for a New York City prosecutor to obtain the former president's tax returns and other financial records as part of a criminal investigation.

The justices without comment rebuffed Trump's request to put on hold an Oct. 7 lower court ruling directing the Republican businessman-turned-politician's longtime accounting firm, Mazars USA, to comply with a subpoena to turn over the materials to a grand jury convened by Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance, a Democrat.

"The work continues," Vance said in a statement issued after the court's action.

Vance had previously said in a letter to Trump's lawyers that his office would be free to immediately enforce the subpoena if the justices rejected Trump's request.

A lawyer for Trump did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The Supreme Court, which has a 6-3 conservative majority included three Trump appointees, had already ruled once in the dispute, last July rejecting Trump's broad argument that he was immune from criminal probes as a sitting president.

Unlike all other recent US presidents, Trump refused during his four years in office to make his tax returns public. The data could provide details on his wealth and the activities of his family real-estate company, the Trump Organization.

Trump, who left office on Jan. 20 after being defeated in his Nov. 3 re-election bid by Democrat Joe Biden, continues to face an array of legal issues concerning his personal and business conduct.

Vance issued a subpoena to Mazars in August 2019 seeking Trump's corporate and personal tax returns from 2011 to 2018. Trump's lawyers sued to block the subpoena, arguing that as a sitting president, Trump had absolute immunity from state criminal investigations.

The Supreme Court in its July ruling rejected those arguments but said Trump could raise other objections to the subpoena. Trump's lawyers then argued before lower courts that the subpoena was overly broad and amounted to political harassment, but US District Judge Victor Marrero in August and the New York-based 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals in October rejected those claims.

Vance's investigation, which began more than two years ago, had focused on hush money payments that the then-president's former lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen made before the 2016 election to two women - adult-film actress Stormy Daniels and former Playboy model Karen McDougal - who said they had sexual encounters with Trump.

"The Supreme Court has now proclaimed that no one is above the law. Trump will, for the first time, have to take responsibility for his own dirty deeds," Cohen said in a statement issued after the Supreme Court announced its action.

The court on Monday separately turned away Daniels' bid to revive her own defamation lawsuit against Trump.

In recent court filings, Vance has suggested that the probe is now broader and could focus on potential bank, tax and insurance fraud, as well as falsification of business records.

In separate litigation, the Democratic-led US House of Representatives was seeking to enforce subpoenas on similar records. The Supreme Court in July sent that matter back to lower courts for further review.
Any guesses as to which crimes Trump was trying to hide by keeping his tax returns private ?

Or guesses as to if he'll be able to get a lawyer to defend him on those charges.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Raw Shark »

bilateralrope wrote: 2021-02-22 01:01pmAny guesses as to which crimes Trump was trying to hide by keeping his tax returns private ?
Well, in addition to the various types of fraud mentioned in the article, I'm guessing tax evasion tops the list. I'm also personally guessing that his even bigger (to him) concern is hiding the non-crime of not being nearly as wealthy as he says he is.

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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Lord Revan »

Yeah Trump seems intelligent enough (or at least has hired accounts intelligent enough) that you'd probably wouldn't find obvious signs of fraud in the tax records, but if the last 4 years have taught us anything it's that Trump does not want anything that could hurt his ego or image to get out to public and "not quite as wealthy as he claimed" does match that description.

EDIT:as for getting a lawyer I assume he'll get one but will that lawyer be competent is another matter as competent lawyers tend to be expensive and Trump doesn't like to pay his lawyers that much.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Solauren »

I can imagine his returns show he's not really paying taxes (due to creative loop-holes or the like), and may in fact ow alot of money on his real estate. Trump might turn out to be worth several billion dollars, but it's all heavily mortgaged.

I also have seen theories that alot of his 'fund raising' activities go into his back pocket as income. The tax returns and related financial records might show that.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Mr Bean »

Lord Revan wrote: 2021-02-22 03:58pm Yeah Trump seems intelligent enough (or at least has hired accounts intelligent enough) that you'd probably wouldn't find obvious signs of fraud in the tax records, but if the last 4 years have taught us anything it's that Trump does not want anything that could hurt his ego or image to get out to public and "not quite as wealthy as he claimed" does match that description.

EDIT:as for getting a lawyer I assume he'll get one but will that lawyer be competent is another matter as competent lawyers tend to be expensive and Trump doesn't like to pay his lawyers that much.
Counterpoint the NYT reporting showing he tells State Tax officials one thing and Federal Officials another. Also the widely different property valuations that change from year to year by large amounts despite no real property improvements or damages or even market changes.

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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Solauren »

Mr Bean wrote: 2021-02-22 05:27pm Counterpoint the NYT reporting showing he tells State Tax officials one thing and Federal Officials another. Also the widely different property valuations that change from year to year by large amounts despite no real property improvements or damages or even market changes.
Almost like he's pulling figures out of his ass?
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Mr Bean »

Solauren wrote: 2021-02-22 05:46pm
Mr Bean wrote: 2021-02-22 05:27pm Counterpoint the NYT reporting showing he tells State Tax officials one thing and Federal Officials another. Also the widely different property valuations that change from year to year by large amounts despite no real property improvements or damages or even market changes.
Almost like he's pulling figures out of his ass?
The part of his ass where his accountants live and calculate how best to avoid as much taxes as possible.

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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Batman »

If his accountants were any good at it he wouldn't have been that reluctant to release his tax records to begin with
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Napoleon the Clown »

I've seen a few savvy people that have basically said "I'm not accusing him of money laundering or other financial crimes, but this certainly looks a lot like a money laundering operation." Full disclosure of his tax returns might make that an easier thing to figure out with enough assurance to go for criminal charges.

Though he doesn't have to be up to anything illegal to be nervous about his finances being public knowledge. If he turns out to be less wealthy than he presents himself, he'll be humiliated. It'll ruin his image. Don care more about image than almost anything else, when it comes down to it.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Ralin »

Napoleon the Clown wrote: 2021-02-22 11:24pmThough he doesn't have to be up to anything illegal to be nervous about his finances being public knowledge. If he turns out to be less wealthy than he presents himself, he'll be humiliated. It'll ruin his image. Don care more about image than almost anything else, when it comes down to it.
That's the generally accepted wisdom. Can't help but notice that Trump has been repeatedly and constantly mocked and humiliated for the past five years. And while he may not be happy, he's still trucking on in his erratic and misfiring way.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by bilateralrope »

Lord Revan wrote: 2021-02-22 03:58pmEDIT:as for getting a lawyer I assume he'll get one but will that lawyer be competent is another matter as competent lawyers tend to be expensive and Trump doesn't like to pay his lawyers that much.
It's not just a matter of payment. I wouldn't be surprised if he finds lawyers willing to take his case for free because of the publicity they get out of it. It's also a matter of finding lawyers willing to use the arguments Trump wants them to use.

Napoleon the Clown wrote: 2021-02-22 11:24pmThough he doesn't have to be up to anything illegal to be nervous about his finances being public knowledge. If he turns out to be less wealthy than he presents himself, he'll be humiliated. It'll ruin his image. Don care more about image than almost anything else, when it comes down to it.
Those tax returns are unlikely to become public knowledge. They will be shown to people relevant to the criminal investigation and trial, maybe passed along to other people if there are criminal referrals. But I doubt we will get to see any of them except for what gets presented at a trial.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Solauren »

bilateralrope wrote: 2021-02-23 01:36pm Those tax returns are unlikely to become public knowledge. They will be shown to people relevant to the criminal investigation and trial, maybe passed along to other people if there are criminal referrals. But I doubt we will get to see any of them except for what gets presented at a trial.
You under estimate how fast someone could scan those into the computer (if need be), copy them to a thumb drive, and then mail them to a newspaper via email. Possibly pre-arranged for payment.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by bilateralrope »

Solauren wrote: 2021-02-24 06:50pm
bilateralrope wrote: 2021-02-23 01:36pm Those tax returns are unlikely to become public knowledge. They will be shown to people relevant to the criminal investigation and trial, maybe passed along to other people if there are criminal referrals. But I doubt we will get to see any of them except for what gets presented at a trial.
You under estimate how fast someone could scan those into the computer (if need be), copy them to a thumb drive, and then mail them to a newspaper via email. Possibly pre-arranged for payment.
That still requires someone to be corrupt enough to do that. Do you have anyone specific on the prosecution team in mind ?
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Jub »

bilateralrope wrote: 2021-02-24 07:40pmThat still requires someone to be corrupt enough to do that. Do you have anyone specific on the prosecution team in mind ?
It really just requires one junior team member who sees dollar signs or anybody with a decent smartphone to snap a picture of the right pages. Depending on how securely physical copies of these documents are kept it could even be a courthouse janitor or somebody of similar standing who does the deed.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Solauren »

Jub wrote: 2021-02-24 10:29pm
bilateralrope wrote: 2021-02-24 07:40pmThat still requires someone to be corrupt enough to do that. Do you have anyone specific on the prosecution team in mind ?
It really just requires one junior team member who sees dollar signs or anybody with a decent smartphone to snap a picture of the right pages. Depending on how securely physical copies of these documents are kept it could even be a courthouse janitor or somebody of similar standing who does the deed.
This

Communication technology is to far advanced now to stop a leak like that if someone is motivated enough, unless absolutely paranoid security is taken.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by LaCroix »

Not only that, camera technology is, too. In the Trump days we often had news about the agendas of meeting because someone was carrying papers around and they were visible in photographs, or in a reflection, and we could just enhance the images to readable text because of the absurdly high Megapixel count of professional camera gear.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Solauren »

I was considering camera and communication technology the same thing in this case. When your camera is your cellphone is your camera, the barrier between them is almost non-existent.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are camera phones that upload directly to a remote server or service now.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by bilateralrope »

Solauren wrote: 2021-02-25 12:58pm
Jub wrote: 2021-02-24 10:29pm
bilateralrope wrote: 2021-02-24 07:40pmThat still requires someone to be corrupt enough to do that. Do you have anyone specific on the prosecution team in mind ?
It really just requires one junior team member who sees dollar signs or anybody with a decent smartphone to snap a picture of the right pages. Depending on how securely physical copies of these documents are kept it could even be a courthouse janitor or somebody of similar standing who does the deed.
This

Communication technology is to far advanced now to stop a leak like that if someone is motivated enough, unless absolutely paranoid security is taken.
Yes, copying them would be easy. It's someone having the motivation that I question.

We are talking about something that would be career ending if the person gets caught, while also possibly jeopardizing the case they are building against Trump. Who would be offering them enough money to make that worthwhile ?
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by Solauren »

Well, if it could torpedo a case against Trump, a Trump backer could/would do it, just to cause that. What's a little embarrassment to the Great Leader if is stops the Liberal hordes?

Other motivation could be -
- 'Fuck you' to the prosecutor to screw up the case over any reason ("You took my parking spot, I'm fucking up your case!")

- Being offered/paid a lot of money. (Who would be offering them enough - Trump or one of his supporters again could do it just to screw the case up)

- For the 'lolz'.
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Re: Trump/Republican Coup Thread

Post by bilateralrope »

I doubt anyone stupid enough to commit a career ending release like this out of spite is on the prosecution team. Making such a more for the lolz is even less likely. I doubt this is a case that has any newbies on it.

If a Trump backer tries to pay for that information, it would be far more damaging to Trump to make that attempt public (or prosecute it) than to release the info. So you'd need to find someone who:
- Has the money
- Is willing to risk prosecution to help Trump and/or stupid enough to think this bribery attempt isn't a crime
- Doesn't have Trump's history of refusing to pay what he promised.

Those scenarios seem unlikely.

The most likely way I can see it being leaked is from Trump's team after it gets handed over to them.
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