Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

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Agent Fisher
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Agent Fisher » 2019-04-15 05:04pm

Tribble wrote:
2019-04-15 04:57pm
And as you can guess I don’t believe that whatever happens it must continue to be a place for worshiping a fictional deity.
Well, considering it was an active church, and likely owned by the Catholic Church, I think it’s safe to say it’s going to be restored to a place of worship once more.

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Tribble » 2019-04-15 05:05pm

Agent Fisher wrote:
2019-04-15 05:04pm
Tribble wrote:
2019-04-15 04:57pm
And as you can guess I don’t believe that whatever happens it must continue to be a place for worshiping a fictional deity.
Well, considering it was an active church, and likely owned by the Catholic Church, I think it’s safe to say it’s going to be restored to a place of worship once more.
Which is lovely, but I don’t have to agree with it. It’s my personal opinion, that’s all.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Agent Fisher » 2019-04-15 05:07pm

Of course. Just understand that your opinion comes off a little douchey while the place is still burning.

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-15 05:07pm

Yeah.
Agent Fisher wrote:
2019-04-15 05:04pm
Tribble wrote:
2019-04-15 04:57pm
And as you can guess I don’t believe that whatever happens it must continue to be a place for worshiping a fictional deity.
Well, considering it was an active church, and likely owned by the Catholic Church, I think it’s safe to say it’s going to be restored to a place of worship once more.
Yup. I'd imagine that's the Catholic Church's call, not the French government's or anyone else's.

Hopefully it also means that the Catholic Church will foot at least part of the bill for the restoration, rather than it all being on the French tax payers. (For that matter, odd question, but is it insured? I assume so.)

Though given its significance culturally and religiously, you could probably crowdfund the restoration if you had to.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Broomstick » 2019-04-15 05:10pm

If one or both belltowers collapse then rebuilding might be a moot point - aside from the damage caused by a collapsing building, there are literal tons of bronze bells suspended in those towers. Imagine what 12,000 kg of falling bronze (the larges of the bells, the bourdon Emmanual) can do to a structure already damaged by fire....
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Agent Fisher » 2019-04-15 05:12pm

Oh, the French Government owns the building, the Catholic Church just has religious rights to it in perpetuity. Still, I imagine there will be a massive fundraising effort by catholics to restore it.

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Zaune » 2019-04-15 05:13pm

https://twitter.com/Guillaume_Alv/statu ... 2418778112
"The fire has decreased in intensity, for now the structure should hold, especially the North Tower."
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The roof's a complete loss, the south face is going to need the (19th century replica) stained glass windows replacing and cleanup is generally going to be a total bitch, but it looks like the building is going to be repairable.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-15 05:13pm

Agent Fisher wrote:
2019-04-15 05:12pm
Oh, the French Government owns the building, the Catholic Church just has religious rights to it in perpetuity. Still, I imagine there will be a massive fundraising effort by catholics to restore it.
If the building is gone, does the Catholic Church retain religious rights to the property in perpetuity?
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"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Agent Fisher » 2019-04-15 05:16pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-15 05:13pm
Agent Fisher wrote:
2019-04-15 05:12pm
Oh, the French Government owns the building, the Catholic Church just has religious rights to it in perpetuity. Still, I imagine there will be a massive fundraising effort by catholics to restore it.
If the building is gone, does the Catholic Church retain religious rights to the property in perpetuity?
*shrugs as he is not an expert in, what would that even be, religious/French state law interactions?*

Complete pull out of my ass guess? Yes?

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Tribble » 2019-04-15 05:35pm

Agent Fisher wrote:
2019-04-15 05:07pm
Of course. Just understand that your opinion comes off a little douchey while the place is still burning.
Oh I’m sure it comes off as a lot douchey, it’s just what my mind jumped to for whatever reason.

To be clear, I’m not happy to see the place burned to the ground, and it was on my list of must sees. Again I get the historical and cultural significance and the loss it represents to a lot of people.

And to be fair, I would be saying more or less the same thing if a culturally significant building where I live was burning to the ground. Though tbh I’m not sure Toronto even has any. I am an equal opportunity douchebag.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Broomstick » 2019-04-15 05:51pm

You can dislike the religion but admire the craftmanship, the engineering, the long-term planning, and everything else required to build and maintain such a building.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by SpottedKitty » 2019-04-15 05:51pm

<sigh> A sad sight. I've been there, once — the whole family went on holiday for a fortnight in Paris 30-odd years ago, and we spent an afternoon in Notre Dame. I wish now I could remember more of that visit.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Broomstick » 2019-04-15 05:53pm

I'm glad I took pictures of my visit. Not sure exactly where they are at the moment, but I'm pretty sure I still have them.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Tribble » 2019-04-15 05:56pm

Broomstick wrote:
2019-04-15 05:51pm
You can dislike the religion but admire the craftmanship, the engineering, the long-term planning, and everything else required to build and maintain such a building.
Oh i agree. I may dislike why it was built, who it was built for and what its purpose is for but that doesn’t take away from the fact that it’s a marvellous piece of craftsmanship and engineering.

Good to hear that some items were safely secured and that it just might be repairable.
Last edited by Tribble on 2019-04-15 05:59pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-15 05:58pm

Agent Fisher wrote:
2019-04-15 05:16pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-15 05:13pm
Agent Fisher wrote:
2019-04-15 05:12pm
Oh, the French Government owns the building, the Catholic Church just has religious rights to it in perpetuity. Still, I imagine there will be a massive fundraising effort by catholics to restore it.
If the building is gone, does the Catholic Church retain religious rights to the property in perpetuity?
*shrugs as he is not an expert in, what would that even be, religious/French state law interactions?*

Complete pull out of my ass guess? Yes?
Eh, its probably academic. Its not like the government of a predominantly French democracy would dare refuse to let the Catholic Church rebuild on the site.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Broomstick » 2019-04-15 06:04pm

Tribble wrote:
2019-04-15 05:56pm
Good to hear that some items were safely secured and that it just might be repairable.
That sort of project can take decades. I doubt I'd live long enough to see it restored.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2019-04-15 07:18pm

French President Emmanuel Macron has promised to rebuild Notre Dame Cathedral and says he is seeking international help to restore the Paris landmark.

Macron said after the French capital’s fire chief announced the emergency response had changed into a monitoring and mop-up operation, “The worst has been avoided although the battle is not yet totally won.”

Macron said a national fundraising campaign to restore Notre Dame would be launched Tuesday and he called on the world’s “greatest talents” to help.

The French leader credited the “courage” and “great professionalism” of firefighters with sparing Notre Dame’s facade and two landmark towers from being destroyed.
Link.
The spire is gone, but the towers are still standing. The closest I came to visiting the cathedral was within Assassin's Creed Unity, looking back I never really appreciated how enormous the structure actually was, until now.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Patroklos » 2019-04-15 07:32pm

I was able to visit last year and am glad I got the chance. It was my wife’s second visit, but unfortunatelymy son was to young to remember the visit.

I am glad to hear a large portion of the interior items were saved and/or off sight.

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-15 07:35pm

Well, that could have been much, much worse. No other buildings burned from what I've heard, no fatalities, and much of the outside, including the iconic facade, is still standing, with a lot of the artifacts off-site and intact.

Its still a tragic loss, and it'll be years before its open to the public again, but it could have been much worse.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Patroklos » 2019-04-15 08:27pm

I’ve seen some pictures from inside and it appears a good bit of the inside of the exterior walls has much of its details largely intact as well. It looks like much of the interior statuary is in good condition to.

One of the benefits of the design is that all the individual chapels arrayed around the perimeter were not under the main roof, and they contain much of not most of the more elaborate and detailed artwork on site.

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Broomstick » 2019-04-15 08:32pm

It looks like where the stone vault held up what was below survived, at least in part. Where the vault gave way the fire came through.

But yes, it could have been worse.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Rogue 9 » 2019-04-15 08:46pm

Picture of the interior. This could have been MUCH worse than it was.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-15 08:50pm

I think a round of applause is in order to the Parisian firefighters who managed to save so much of the building, keep the fire contained, and do it without any loss of human life.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by wautd » 2019-04-16 02:08am

I had a hard time believing it until a saw the pictures. Absolutely terrible

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

Post by Broomstick » 2019-04-16 07:22am

I suspect that the people cheering about the interior have never had to deal with soot and water damage - the basic stone still stands, but there is still an enormous amount of clean-up to do.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

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