Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by Thanas »

Amnesty International
Crimean Tatar media will shut down as arbitrary registration deadline expires

All but one independent Crimean Tatar-language media outlets – including those providing children’s entertainment – will be shut down on 1 April as the midnight deadline expires for re-registration under a Russian law, Amnesty International said.

Despite submitting applications in good time, Crimean Tatar-language publications, websites and broadcast outlets that have been arbitrarily refused re-registration or not heard back from the licencing authorities, will be forced to close. Failure to do so will lead to heavy fines and criminal prosecutions.

“At the stroke of midnight, all but one Crimean Tatar language media outlets, which have come under a sustained assault since the Russian annexation, will fall silent,” said Denis Krivosheev, Amnesty International’s Deputy Director for Europe and Central Asia.

“This blatant attack on freedom of expression, dressed-up as an administrative procedure, is a crude attempt to stifle independent media, gag dissenting voices, and intimidate the Crimean Tatar community.”

Whilst all media outlets in Crimea were told to re-register under Russian legislation in April 2014, those broadcasting in the Crimean Tatar language have been repeatedly and arbitrarily denied registration. By contrast, many Russian-language media outlets received licenses soon after applying.

So far, only one Crimean Tatar-language media outlet – the newspaper Yeni Dunya – has successfully re-registered. The rest have fallen foul of the registration authority which has used technicalities and unspecified “irregularities” to delay or deny registration.

The well-established Crimean Tatar-language news agency, QHA, was twice refused re-registration, and has not reapplied. ATR, a TV channel that broadcasts in the Crimean Tatar language, has had three applications for a media licence arbitrarily rejected since October 2014. There has been no response to their fourth application.


Lilya Budzhurova, Deputy Director for Information Policy for ATR told Amnesty International that the channel will pull the plug on their broadcasts at 00:01 on 1 April if a licence is not granted.


“We will be prosecuted according to Russian law. There could be severe consequences, including hefty fines of up to half-a-billion roubles (approximately $9,000), confiscation of equipment, and criminal charges against the management.”

Other Crimean Tatar-language media outlets including the radio station Maydan, the website 15minut.org, the newspaper Avdet and the magazine Yildiz, have not had their applications for re-registration approved and will be forced to shut down once the midnight deadline passes.

Even children’s entertainment has not been spared, with no re-registration granted to the children’s magazine Armantchikh, and the popular children’s television channel, Lale.

“The fact that children’s television channels and magazines are being forced to shut down may sound like a cruel April Fools’ Day joke, but this is certainly no laughing matter,” said Denis Krivosheev.

“Instead it heralds a latest stage in an ongoing clampdown on human rights, including freedom of expression, in Crimea the brunt of which is being felt by the persecuted Crimean Tatar minority.”
But wait, there is more:
The de facto authorities in Crimea have failed to investigate a series of abductions and torture of their critics, and resorted to an unrelenting campaign of intimidation to silence dissent, said Amnesty International in a briefing published today on the first anniversary of annexation.

Violations of the rights to freedom of expression, assembly and association in Crimea highlights how the de facto authorities in Crimea are carrying out a catalogue of human rights abuses against pro-Ukrainian media, campaigning organizations, Crimean Tatars and individuals critical of the regime.

“Since Russia annexed Crimea, the de facto authorities are using a vast array of bully-boy tactics to crack down on dissent; a spate of abductions between March and September have prompted many vocal critics to leave the region. Those remaining face a range of harassment from authorities determined to silence their opponents,” said John Dalhuisen, Amnesty International’s Director for Europe and Central Asia.

Abductions and torture – no effective investigations

Since annexation, at least seven people have been abducted, whose fate remains unknown. At least one other abducted person has been found dead, with signs of torture.

Amnesty International has documented the disappearances of three Crimean Tatars. Islyam Dzhepparov, 19, and Dzhevdet Islyamov, 23, were pushed into a van by four men in black uni-form on 29 September 2014 and have not been seen since. Reshat Ametov, 39, was abducted while attending a demonstration in March last year. His body was found later with signs of torture. To date, no-one has been held accountable.

Andriy Schekun, the leader of Ukrainian House, an organization promoting Ukrainian language and culture, was abducted by pro-Russian paramilitaries and held for 11 days in a secret location where he was electrocuted in March 2014. Following this ordeal, he was handed over to the Ukrainian military. Again, no-one has been held accountable for his torture. Three other members of the organization went missing in May last year and have not been seen since.

“The de facto Crimean authorities tell us that they are investigating all cases of abduction and torture, but we have yet to see any concrete evidence of this,” said John Dalhuisen.
Media crackdown

The de facto authorities are also creating a climate of fear in Crimea, using intimidation and restrictive laws to silence the media and NGOs.

On 26 January 2015, some 30 armed, masked men from a special police unit, accompanied by 10 security officials, raided the offices of the Crimean Tatar TV Channel, ATR, disrupted broadcasting and took away documents dating back to February last year.

Even before the raid, the channel was exercising self-censorship, dropping the use of the words “annexation’’ and “occupation” after several editorial staff received warnings from the authorities branding their broadcasts “extremist” and threatening them with criminal prosecution.

Several journalists and bloggers have fled Crimea, fearing persecution. This includes the vocally pro-Ukrainian blogger, Elizaveta Bogutskaya, who was summoned for questioning after officials from the “Center for Combating Extremism” searched her house and took away data for inspection.

Following annexation, the de facto authorities required all media outlets to re-register. QHA, a well-known Crimean Tatar news agency, has been unable to register with no specific explanation as to why its application was unacceptable.

No right to protest or celebrate Crimean Tatar culture

Public protests have effectively been banned in Crimea. Permission for cultural gatherings and demonstrations by Crimean Tatars is more often than not denied and those that are allowed, have to take place in remote locations. This is particularly the case for traditional commemora-tive events.

A number of prominent independent organizations, particularly those working on human rights issues, have ceased to exist. The Mejlis, which represents the Crimean Tatar community, has been denied recognition and its prominent members subjected to a campaign of harassment and persecution.

“One year on from Crimea’s annexation, the attitude of its de facto authorities and their Russian masters can be summed up simply – like it or leave or shut up,” said John Dalhuisen.

“There is little appetite in the international community to push Russia on restoring Ukraine’s territorial integrity, but it should, at the very least, be putting much more pressure on Russia to respect the rights of all of Crimea’s residents.”
More at the full report.

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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

The problem is that the original effort of the Russian Tatars from the area of Kazan to reach out to the Mejlis became embroiled in politics over the problem that the leaders of the Crimea are, of course, eager to protect their own little fief and don't want the territory of the peninsula divided. The correct solution in the Russian governance structure would be to create an autonomous region of some type for the Tatars with their own language and law in a portion of the peninsula containing the majority of their population there. However the Mejlis refused to recognize the legitimacy of the exchange of political power, so the Russian state authorities care nothing except for suppressing dissent to the legitimacy of the country's borders. Despite it, I wouldn't rule out the government ultimately finding Tatars willing to cooperate and creating an autonomous region for them. The problem of course is how much this would anger the ethnic Russian authorities of the peninsula. It is still by far the best way to end this unfortunate situation quickly. When the peninsula was first annexed I had hoped such a division would be immediately made (it would suggest someone was quick-thinking in propaganda terms at the Kremlin), but alas, the situation with the Tatars quickly deteoriated.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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Through no fault of the Tatars, I shall add. Minorities are not required to recognize invaders.

When was the attempt to reach out to the Meji made?
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by Mange »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: The correct solution
The correct solution would be for Russia to return the illegally occupied territory of Crimea to Ukraine (at minimum, what Russia MUST do is to protect the property of Ukrainian citizens, guarantee the rights of the Crimean Tatars and other minorities and pay a hefty compensation to Ukraine for its losses).
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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If the large ethnic-Russian majority in the Crimea then attempted to secede from the Ukraine, would you approve or disapprove of their attempt to do so?
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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The Crimean is Russian and it will never be anything else; I hate Putin as a dictator and a corrupt fool and I still fervently believe that--a democratic Russia will still and also never in a thousand years return the Crimean to the Ukraine. It is a majority Russian territory, that has been naturally connected to the Eurasian landmass in culture and custom since the earliest of days; and anyway the Tatars also, except for those in the Crimean, live in Russian territory. But that is neither here nor there. I am also not a fan of how the Ukrainians treated the Tatars; the only reason the Tatars fear Russia is that they remember Joe the Georgian and his brutality toward them and associate it with the modern Russian state. Unfortunately, to a certain extent that's true. Now, that we've moved beyond what cannot be anything other than agreed to be disagreed with (I believe in self-determination for a cohesive ethnic group -- both the Crimean Russians AND the Tatars), I will address Thanas:

So, let's use al-Jazeera as a neutral and skeptical source between the western and Russian sides
The related but ethnically distinct Volga Tatars, numbering some six million across the Russian Federation, are one of the country's largest ethnic minorities. They are chiefly concentrated in the gas-rich and economically successful Republic of Tatarstan. It is one of the top four regions of Russia by contributions to the federal budget.

Both Volga and Crimean Tatars traditionally trace their ancestry back to the Turkic peoples of the Golden Horde. Tatar patriots perceive them as brotherly nations, though there are significant differences: the Volga Tatar and Crimean Tatar languages are quite different.

Throughout the 1990s Tatarstan's regional leadership asserted the Republic's "sovereignty" to varying degrees (and much to Moscow's irritation) until the erosion of provincial autonomy under Vladimir Putin. Parading its supposed regional sovereignty in the 1990s, Tatarstan was one of the most flamboyant about it and went as far as opening a small number of its own delegations abroad. Yet for over twenty years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Tatarstan maintained no official ties with Crimea. This was probably because of pressure from Moscow not to do so, as journalist Rim Gilfanov has explained.

It can be no coincidence that Crimean officials have welcomed a number of high-profile guests from Tatarstan as of late. On March 5, Tatarstan President Rustam Minnikhanov signed an agreement on co-operation between Tatarstan and the new Crimean authorities, the actual contents of which were to be established over the coming month. The agreement implies significant collaboration between ten government institutions as well as significant financial aid to Crimea from Tatarstan businesses.

Whatever Kazan's motivations, Moscow's are further-reaching. Crimean Tatar leaders may lose a little sleep over the motivations of their new friends from Tatarstan. "It is clearly part of a larger plan" remarked current leader of the Crimean Tatar Mejlis, Refat Chubarov, in a March 3 interview.

The Tatarstan's Mufti Kamil Samigullin invited Crimean Tatars to study in madrasas in Kazan, stressing that his visit was an apolitical one, made merely to highlight Kazan Tatar support for their "brothers in faith and blood". Rinat Zakirov (of the World Tatar Congress) and Razil Valeev, both deputies of the Tatarstan Parliament, elaborated upon their visit to Crimea at a press conference in Kazan on March 2. "Tatars have a saying," began Valeev, "until a Tatar has seen something with his own eyes, he won't sense it, he won't believe it […] We spoke [with Crimean Tatar leaders] without emotion, were cold-blooded, and had an analytical conversation."
According to Valeev, the Tatarstani and Crimean Tatar politicians agreed that Crimean Tatars should enjoy exactly the same rights as Ukrainians and Russians in Crimea - a statement which, if broadly interpreted, could have varied implications for Crimean Tatar autonomy. For now, these guests from Tatarstan are content to limit their statements to broad platitudes, for stability and harmony, and for closer ties with their ethnic kin. They will, in short, give moral support to Crimean Tatars, though not necessarily for their political preferences.

As former President of Tatarstan Mintimer Shaimiev concluded his address to the Tatarstan parliament on February 27: "It is a sovereign state. The Russians and Ukrainians are civilised people. Whatever our attitude is, it is their internal conflict." Minnikhanov's presence at the Crimean parliament's declaration of sovereignty on his second visit on March 11, was not covered by Russian media.

In Kazan itself, local authorities organised, on March 5, a solidarity rally with Crimea and in support for the official line on Crimea. Popular cliches from Russian state media (as well as speaker of the Tatarstan parliament Farit Mukhametshin) were in attendance, decrying fascism and banderovtsy in Ukraine and criticising the Yatsenyuk government in Kiev.

Journalists later revealed that state employers had been instructed to ensure the presence of at least ten of their workers. Following the first signs of a Russian military presence in Crimea in late February, army movements including around three hundred tanks were observed around Kazan. Described in official reports as being "military training", these movements were suspected by Journalist Rashit Akhmetov of Kazan's Zvezda Povolzhya as Moscow demonstrating its expectations of loyalty and conformity to the Tatarstan government.

Honoured guests
It has been noted that the small number of pro-Russians in the Crimean Tatar community were known derisively as "Kazany", given their claims that life was better for the Volga Tatars. In his meeting with Djemilev, Putin mentioned Tatarstan as a region where Tatars live comfortably.
Tatarstan's state television channel TNV-Planeta has begun broadcasting in the Crimea, showing a documentary on the historic links between the Crimean and Volga Tatars. Yet majority of the Crimean Tatar community appears to remain unimpressed.

Two journalists in Simferopol attempted to coax President Minnikhanov into explaining his visits to Crimea, but like other Tatarstan officials, he remained inscrutable, saying solely that the Volga and Crimean Tatars were brotherly nations. Vice-President of the Crimean Parliament Rustam Temirgaliev (of Volga Tatar descent) congratulated Minnikhanov on his enormously helpful role in negotiations with Crimean Tatar leaders, guaranteeing to the Crimean Tatar community that their cultural and linguistic rights would be respected.

So what will be the result of the Kremlins' charm offensive? Minnikhanov has been put in a difficult situation. Volga Tatars are first and foremost Russian citizens, exposed to the same views on the Crimean crisis as other Russian citizens. Yet some are not without a keen sense of ethnic and linguistic solidarity with other members of the wider Tatar world. Moscow would certainly risks angering other Muslim and Turkic peoples (not to mention Turkey itself), were it to repress what is a troublesome ethnic minority in order to achieve its goals in the Crimea.

Tatarstan's role has been interpreted as an attempt to expand the Republic's influence at a time when its real autonomy has been significantly curtailed in recent years (Minnikhanov will no longer be permitted to refer to himself as a "president" after 2015). Gleb Postov of Nezavisimaya Gazeta supposes that these moves were an attempt by Tatarstan to strengthen its image in the Russian political arena, while positioning itself as the centre of the Turkic and Islamic world within Russia.
Whatever Kazan's motivations, Moscow's are further-reaching. Crimean Tatar leaders may lose a little sleep over the motivations of their new friends from Tatarstan. "It is clearly part of a larger plan" remarked current leader of the Crimean Tatar Mejlis, Refat Chubarov, in a March 3 interview with Fontanka:

"As a national custom, we always accept guests; we met with them at their request. But we asked why their arrival coincided with that of Russian troops. They say that they've always wanted to come, but they could not have predicted such a situation. We asked them, next time they visit, to please let us know in advance."

So you can see how much more complicated the situation is. The Tatars of the Volga region at the very least tried to reach out and engage with the Mejlis, but adherence to the pro-Russian line wasn't forthcoming, and of course there are forces against the broad autonomy of the ethnicities in Russia. These forces are normally opposed almost inevitably by central governments, but the Ukrainians themselves are far more aggressive about suppressing the autonomy of minorities, such as in demanding total centralization of state authority. The Crimean President was simply eliminated as a post instead of being renamed, in 1996, at the same time autonomous police forces were removed from the Crimean, by the Ukrainians, who still deny that Rusyn is actually a language, and therefore deny the entire existence of the Rusyn minority in the Transcarpathia.

I don't think the Russian behaviour in regard to the Tatars of the Crimean is anything other than regrettable, as there was a chance for broad scale autonomy like the ethnic regions of Russia possess to contrast with the paper-thin sliver of recognition the Ukrainians gave, and that was lost despite the initial attempts by the Kazan government to reach out to their brothers, for reasons probably descending into the murky realm of central-state relations and power politics inside the Russian elite. Nonetheless, at least on paper, conditions for minority groups inside of Russia is actually much better than in almost all of the other post-Soviet states put together. They have their own culture, language, government, law and religion within their functional autonomous territories, even if in practice a mini-Putin princeling runs the autonomous area as a fiefdom, he is at least a member of their own ethnicity, and the problems only start when they try to go beyond this dynamic. I am not sure why would I interpreted a year ago as the start of the establishment of a Crimean Tatar autonomy ended up not happening, though if there was nobody found to take over such an organization from amongst the "Kazany", that would be the most obvious problem.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I don't think the Russian behaviour in regard to the Tatars of the Crimean is anything other than regrettable, as there was a chance for broad scale autonomy like the ethnic regions of Russia possess to contrast with the paper-thin sliver of recognition the Ukrainians gave, and that was lost despite the initial attempts by the Kazan government to reach out to their brothers, for reasons probably descending into the murky realm of central-state relations and power politics inside the Russian elite.
I find words like "chance was lost" to be utterly inapplicable to the current solution. Let's name it what it is - Russia demanded unquestioning allegiance, the Crimean Tatars wouldn't give it to the invaders and now they suffer for it.
Nonetheless, at least on paper, conditions for minority groups inside of Russia is actually much better than in almost all of the other post-Soviet states put together. They have their own culture, language, government, law and religion within their functional autonomous territories, even if in practice a mini-Putin princeling runs the autonomous area as a fiefdom, he is at least a member of their own ethnicity, and the problems only start when they try to go beyond this dynamic. I am not sure why would I interpreted a year ago as the start of the establishment of a Crimean Tatar autonomy ended up not happening, though if there was nobody found to take over such an organization from amongst the "Kazany", that would be the most obvious problem.
Conditions for minority groups cannot be better if rights that were previousy existing under Ukrainian rule are now taken away.

As for me, the last minutes of the television channel said all:
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by Simon_Jester »

It is quite clear that Russia had a chance to reach out to the Crimean Tatars and is throwing it away.

Which, I agree, is a pity, because if the Russians were handling this more gracefully it would be easy for them to extend rights to the Crimean Tatars that would leave them better off under Russian rule.There is plenty of precedent within the Russian government for doing such a thing, they have plenty of varying degrees of autonomy offered to ethnic minorities... but Moscow has elected not to do so here.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Thanas wrote:I find words like "chance was lost" to be utterly inapplicable to the current solution. Let's name it what it is - Russia demanded unquestioning allegiance, the Crimean Tatars wouldn't give it to the invaders and now they suffer for it.
Isn't that standard procedure for just about any country in this world? Would you expect anything less? Did the United States not decide to ban the Baath party in Iraq because of its past allegiance to Saddam Hussein?
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Thanas wrote:I find words like "chance was lost" to be utterly inapplicable to the current solution. Let's name it what it is - Russia demanded unquestioning allegiance, the Crimean Tatars wouldn't give it to the invaders and now they suffer for it.
Isn't that standard procedure for just about any country in this world? Would you expect anything less? Did the United States not decide to ban the Baath party in Iraq because of its past allegiance to Saddam Hussein?
They banned former Baathists from holding office because they didn't want the new government associated with the old. They were a purely political party, not an ethnic minority, so it's also not a good analogy.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Block wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Thanas wrote:I find words like "chance was lost" to be utterly inapplicable to the current solution. Let's name it what it is - Russia demanded unquestioning allegiance, the Crimean Tatars wouldn't give it to the invaders and now they suffer for it.
Isn't that standard procedure for just about any country in this world? Would you expect anything less? Did the United States not decide to ban the Baath party in Iraq because of its past allegiance to Saddam Hussein?
They banned former Baathists from holding office because they didn't want the new government associated with the old. They were a purely political party, not an ethnic minority, so it's also not a good analogy.
That's not how the Sunnis saw it, which is why you had a Sunni insurgency later, and now ISIS. They weren't purely a political party; they were a party that pretty much represented Sunni dominance.

Not least, just about any of the existing Iraqi elite had Baath membership. By banning the Baath party and banning any of them from holding government office, you just gutted a huge swathe of the Iraqi government and sent most of them straight to the insurgency.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:That's not how the Sunnis saw it, which is why you had a Sunni insurgency later, and now ISIS. They weren't purely a political party; they were a party that pretty much represented Sunni dominance.

Not least, just about any of the existing Iraqi elite had Baath membership. By banning the Baath party and banning any of them from holding government office, you just gutted a huge swathe of the Iraqi government and sent most of them straight to the insurgency.
Banned the Baath party was a dumb idea. This does not change the fact that the Baath party is a political party, not an ethnic group, so acting like the two are the same is completely idiotic.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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This is not to excuse or anything, but it's hardly surprising once you see the words 'Golden' and 'Horde' placed next to one another in the context of Russian history. To the Russians, 'ethnic minorities' might be a few phrases down on the list that they might use to describe the Tatars place in Russian society: Interlopers, invaders, bastards etc etc might be more appropriate. Of course, we in the enlightened west try not to hold onto hatreds from hundreds of years ago... (jots down list: haoles, niggers, heebs, mics, spics, wops, chinks, dinks, gooks, crackers, wasichus, prarie niggers, krauts, frogs, limeys, fags, honkeys, polacks...) well... ok, maybe not.
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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cmdrjones wrote:This is not to excuse or anything, but it's hardly surprising once you see the words 'Golden' and 'Horde' placed next to one another in the context of Russian history. To the Russians, 'ethnic minorities' might be a few phrases down on the list that they might use to describe the Tatars place in Russian society: Interlopers, invaders, bastards etc etc might be more appropriate. Of course, we in the enlightened west try not to hold onto hatreds from hundreds of years ago... (jots down list: haoles, niggers, heebs, mics, spics, wops, chinks, dinks, gooks, crackers, wasichus, prarie niggers, krauts, frogs, limeys, fags, honkeys, polacks...) well... ok, maybe not.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

stormthebeaches wrote:Banned the Baath party was a dumb idea. This does not change the fact that the Baath party is a political party, not an ethnic group, so acting like the two are the same is completely idiotic.
It was a political party that represented a religious/ethnic group and was for that religious/ethnic group and actively repressed the rival groups such as Kurds and Shia. And in a place like the Middle East, being part of a different religious or ethnic group is as good as being part of an alien race.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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General Schatten wrote:
cmdrjones wrote:This is not to excuse or anything, but it's hardly surprising once you see the words 'Golden' and 'Horde' placed next to one another in the context of Russian history. To the Russians, 'ethnic minorities' might be a few phrases down on the list that they might use to describe the Tatars place in Russian society: Interlopers, invaders, bastards etc etc might be more appropriate. Of course, we in the enlightened west try not to hold onto hatreds from hundreds of years ago... (jots down list: haoles, niggers, heebs, mics, spics, wops, chinks, dinks, gooks, crackers, wasichus, prarie niggers, krauts, frogs, limeys, fags, honkeys, polacks...) well... ok, maybe not.
Racism is okay because other people do it too!

reading comprehension dude.... It's not "ok because reasons" it's Not Surprising....
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by K. A. Pital »

Um... The mongol invasion was so far in the past that people do not see Tatars this way, neither in Russia nor abroad. This is purely government-related dickery. And no, people do not randomly call Tatars 'invaders' or 'bastards'.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by cmdrjones »

Stas Bush wrote:Um... The mongol invasion was so far in the past that people do not see Tatars this way, neither in Russia nor abroad. This is purely government-related dickery. And no, people do not randomly call Tatars 'invaders' or 'bastards'.

I know several russian linguists who may disagree with you. I'll get back to you.
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

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Stas is Russian.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

I don't know how the hell some professional linguist in America could have their finger on the current of modern Russian culture. The closest thing I've ever seen to the issue coming up was a director in the "making of" section of the DVD joking about how political correctness had come to Russia in his movie with the American movie white guy/black guy buddy cop analog of a Russian guy/Tatar guy.

Even going back to old family stories, from the days when there was still active fighting on the Central Asian frontier against people related in custom, lifestyle, sometimes ethnicity to the Tatars, you don't hear anything about Tatars, except of course that many had converted to Christianity and their nobility was freely integrated with that of the rest of the country. Some of the oldest families of the last days of the Tsar descended from Tatar lineages. It just hasn't been an issue in a long time.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by K. A. Pital »

cmdrjones wrote:I know several russian linguists who may disagree with you. I'll get back to you.
I've been living in Russia most of my life, sorry about that.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by cmdrjones »

Stas Bush wrote:
cmdrjones wrote:I know several russian linguists who may disagree with you. I'll get back to you.
I've been living in Russia most of my life, sorry about that.

Then i suppose I stand corrected. Then again, the mongol yoke ended, what 450 years ago? Give us another 200 and change and maybe the US will have 'gotten over' slavery and the wiping out of native americans to that point as well.

Then again, the Crimean tartars in that vid seemed to be VERY aware of attacks, pogroms and massacres within living memory....
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

cmdrjones wrote:Then i suppose I stand corrected. Then again, the mongol yoke ended, what 450 years ago? Give us another 200 and change and maybe the US will have 'gotten over' slavery and the wiping out of native americans to that point as well.

Then again, the Crimean tartars in that vid seemed to be VERY aware of attacks, pogroms and massacres within living memory....
If it is because of recent memory, we can always blame Stalin.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by K. A. Pital »

cmdrjones wrote:Then again, the Crimean tartars in that vid seemed to be VERY aware of attacks, pogroms and massacres within living memory....
They were forcibly resettled (internally deported) well within living memory, actually.
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Re: Russia opresses minorities in Crimea

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Yeah, the resettlement of the Crimean Tatars is totally unrelated to the view of Tatars in general in the Russosphere of language and culture. That covers the Kazan Tatars as well and several other groups, and I think Cmdrjones just does not understand that.
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