‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

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Kamakazie Sith
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Thanas wrote:
Grumman wrote:When he is resisting arrest after committing a firearms offense, and it is therefore reasonable to assume that he may still be armed and may do something stupid like try to shoot his way out.
The suspect was knocked to the ground out of breath with three cops over him.
Because there is such an epidemic of people who reached for their gun successfully and opened fire while being restrained by three officers .
Two of my colleagues were shot by one guy while they were trying to restrain them. Not an epidemic but it does happen.

This shouldn't mean that I think this was a justified shooting because I don't. However, the use of other force against him would definitely be justified.
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by Thanas »

Were the circumstances (guy out of breath with officers on top of him) the same or was it a brawl?
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Kamakazie Sith
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Thanas wrote:Were the circumstances (guy out of breath with officers on top of him) the same or was it a brawl?
It was more like a struggle to control his arms. One officer on each arm yet he was able to pull a pistol from his waistband and fire blindly behind him. No, he wasn't out of breath. However, you had one male officer on each arm yet he was still able to pull and fire, blindly, and strike each officer once.

My point is that firearms make it very easy to direct deadly force with very little physical effort. It's why people that are shot by police are handcuffed.
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xthetenth
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by xthetenth »

How are tasers in police use shot and in the general case of pulling a gun instead of a taser, do you think it would make a difference to not have them shot by an index finger trigger if they are?
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by Lord Pounder »

Would there not be a notable difference in the shape and weight between a pistol and a taser?
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Elheru Aran
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by Elheru Aran »

Lord Pounder wrote:Would there not be a notable difference in the shape and weight between a pistol and a taser?
Not necessarily, actually. There are some tasers that do have a different shape/weight, but if you consider that they have to have a pretty chunky battery to hold enough charge to put down a full grown man, the weight is going to be close to if not more than a standard pistol with ammunition. Having a very similar shape also assists in cross-training, as you don't have to teach them how to hold it in a different fashion. Most tasers that I've seen cops carrying these days (Georgia, USA) are basically pistol-shaped with yellow tips, mounted on the opposite side of the belt from the pistol.
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by Agent Fisher »

Image

Image

Here are the three most used tasers in the United States. The top is an M-26 an older model you usually only see in very cash poor departments, or budget conscience security guards. It runs on AA batteries. One nickname I've heard is a Lego Glock

The next is the X-26, this is what you see on damn near every modern police office and security guard that carries a taser. They utilize the same cartridge, but the X-26 uses a different type of pulse of the energy that is delivered to have a more efficient tase. Also, X-26 runs on a proprietary taser-made battery, several types of which are extended to allow all of a user's fingers to be on the weapon, so not just two like in the above picture.

The bottom one is the X-2, the newest of the tasers. Has two slim cartridges instead of the big boxy ones, which means it can tase twice before reload. It can also do a few other fancy things that aren't relevant to this discussion.

Now, for the reserve deputy, he most likely had a X-26. While it is lighter than most firearms, it's not something that feels like it's madeo f air. It's still got a bit of weight to it and when you've got an extended battery for finger rests, grip wise it feels just like a pistol would. And if the reserve deputy didn't train as often, or build up that muscle memory, when the adrenaline's pumping, you brain may be telling you grab and deploy taser, but your body's been conditioned to grab and deploy firearm.

This can be mitigated both by training and by mandating where to have the taser placed on the duty belt. But, mandating it to be on one side and in one way like a crossdraw, won't work for everyone, since for me, I've got shorter arms, and based on my priorities for pouch placement, I have my handcuffs and magazines right up front, so my X2 goes on my weak side to be deployed by my weak hand.
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by Baffalo »

Compared to the weight of your pistol, how does the X-26 feel? Would you say that, weight wise, it feels more akin to the pistol itself or is it light enough that something should feel a little bit off?
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Elheru Aran
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by Elheru Aran »

Probably isn't enough of a difference that you're going to notice in that split-second where you're grabbing it and going for the shot. Batteries are heavy.
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by Dominus Atheos »

Updates:
On Wednesday afternoon, September 30, Tulsa Sheriff Stanley Glanz resigned after a grand jury indicted him on multiple charges.

It was Sheriff Stanley Glanz who appointed his booster and friend, senior citizen Bob Bates, as a Deputy Sheriff. Bob Bates then shot and killed an unarmed father, Eric Harris, during a rather routine arrest.

On its face, the police murder of Eric Harris, a 44-year-old father in Tulsa, Oklahoma, was wrong. Surrounded by police, Harris had surrendered and was on the ground when Bob Bates, a deputy, claims to have accidentally shot him with a handgun instead of his Taser. For what he claimed was a mistake, Bates was charged with second-degree manslaughter.

With no other details, that story was bad. But then the video was released showing Harris nervously gasping for air, screaming that he couldn't breathe, and asking why he was shot Another officer, Joe Byars, tells him, "Fuck your breath." The video made it increasingly clear that this was not just a mistake, but something deeply inhumane and troubling on a scale that the country wasn't quite prepared for.

But, it turns out, the true story is more scandalous than any of us could've ever imagined.

Not only is Bates a fake volunteer police officer (Tulsa calls them "reserve deputies"), it turns out Bates was lavishing the department with international cruises to the Bahamas and Mexico, took regular fishing trips with the lead sheriff, Stanley Glanz, and was also chairman of the sheriff's recent campaign.
“Bob Bates came on board because he had all this money,” one former reserve deputy said, adding that the sheriff and other higher-ups would “go on these cruises in the Bahamas and in Mexico all the time.”

“[Bates] foots the bill,” the deputy added. “The sheriff just gave him free rein because he was treating him right. He bought his way into this position.”

Another former full-time deputy said Bates was “getting glad-handed” around the office because of his wealth.

“This is your typical Southern good ol’ boys system,” he said, adding that before the shooting Bates planned to take Glanz on a fishing trip to Florida.
It gets deeper. Now, not wanting to go down with a sinking ship, people inside the department are talking, as you can read below.
Supervisors at the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office were ordered to falsify a reserve deputy’s training records, giving him credit for field training he never took and firearms certifications he should not have received, sources told the Tulsa World.

At least three of reserve deputy Robert Bates’ supervisors were transferred after refusing to sign off on his state-required training, multiple sources speaking on condition of anonymity told the World.
Now Sheriff Stanley Glanz, who went on fishing trips and international cruises paid for by Bates, is claiming he can't find the paperwork verifying the certification Bates was required to have in order to be out with officers the day he killed Harris.

This isn't just disorganization.

This scandal cost Harris his life. It's increasingly clear that Bates, who also purchased police vehicles for the department, was given so much freedom because of the gifts he showered on the the law enforcement agency. He he felt like he could do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. Beyond being 73 years old, he had no business even attempting to Taser a subdued Harris—never mind shoot and kill him.
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Re: ‘You shouldn't have f---ing ran’

Post by bobalot »

Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up.
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