Sweden: hunted Russian "submarine" just a fishing boat

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Irbis
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2262
Joined: 2011-07-15 05:31pm

Sweden: hunted Russian "submarine" just a fishing boat

Post by Irbis »

Remember the month long hysteria in Sweden last year? "Sighting" of Russian subs by retired officer that spurred huge hunt with dozens of ships and helicopters? One that ended up costing dozens of millions of dollars, followed by massive anti-Russian campaign in media, and push to join NATO and buy western arms? Well, guess what, if was apparently Loch Ness Sub:
'Submarine' in Sweden was only civilian boat

A suspected submarine spotted in the Stockholm archipelago a week after Sweden's extensive hunt for Russian underwater vessels last autumn was only a civilian boat, Sweden's Armed Forces have now said. But they remain convinced that the first sighting was a small foreign sub.

On October 31st 2014, retired naval officer Sven Olof Kviman snapped a picture of what looked like a 20-30 metre long, black submarine in waters just outside Lidingö in Stockholm. The incident has remained unconfirmed, but has been classed by the military as a “potential” submarine.

But Rear Admiral Anders Grenstad has now told Swedish newspapers that the Armed Forces reported to the Swedish government last Wednesday that the suspected underwater vessel was in fact only a civilian “working boat”.

“The analysis has shown that the photograph taken in Stockholm's inner archipelago was of a smaller boat,” Grenstad told Dagens Nyheter on Monday.

According to Grenstad, the picture instead showed the boat “Time Bandit”, a 10.5 metre long, white plastic boat. But the boatman using the vessel on October 31st claimed the Swedish military had not been in contact with him.

“The navy hasn't spoken to me. My boat is visible in the picture – but not where the Armed Forces say it is, but further away,” he told Dagens Nyheter.

And Kviman, who participated in Sweden's Cold War submarine hunts in the 1980s and 90s, remains convinced of what he saw.

“It is completely impossible that we have got this wrong, it would mean both my wife and I were colour blind. 'Time Bandit', at a length of 10 metres, is of a completely different size to the submarine. I saw the submarine above water: the bow, stern and tower. It is always difficult to determine the size, but it was around 20-30 metres long,” he told Dagens Nyheter.

Between October 17th and 24th, Sweden launched an extensive naval search operation after a suspected foreign mini-sub – widely thought to be Russian – in the Stockholm archipelago. Grenstad confirmed that the Armed Forces' view is still that this incursion took place, although the military has never confirmed that the vessel came from Russia.

“The assessment that Swedish territory was violated in October 2014, remains in full,” he told Dagens Nyheter.

The Swedish Armed Forces said in a statement on their website late on Sunday that an inquiry into the October 17th-24th submarine incursion is ongoing and is expected to be completed later this spring.
Really, they should have either test how many subs of vodka the retired guy downed before "sighting" the submarine or just open Wikipedia, where they would learn the smallest Russian submarine on Baltic, Kilo-class, is about 80 m long, that is, three times too big. Ironically, what would fit perfectly the size stated are ex-Norwegian Kobbens, Type 207 German built subs, but there is this pesky detail they are currently flying NATO flag, being Polish ships delegated as part of our defence contribution.

But then again, what you expect from navy officers who apparently have no idea where Russian fleet is stationed or what ships they have, judging by their previous announcements.

Hmm, if I were a suspicious man, and there was any truth in sighting accusations, I'd ask myself if NATO didn't quietly contribute 'intruder' submarine so that Swedes could inflame whole scandal and push opinion polls a few more % in favour of joining NATO. But I am not, so I'm not going to invent fictional reality like Russophobes do. Though, I do wonder if Sweden will now apologise and call off two billion dollar military spending escalation, or was the whole hysteria PR campaign justifying it and it will proceed as planned?
User avatar
Mange
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4179
Joined: 2004-03-26 01:31pm
Location: Somewhere in the GFFA

Re: Sweden: hunted Russian "submarine" just a fishing boat

Post by Mange »

Irbis wrote:Remember the month long hysteria in Sweden last year? "Sighting" of Russian subs by retired officer that spurred huge hunt with dozens of ships and helicopters? One that ended up costing dozens of millions of dollars, followed by massive anti-Russian campaign in media, and push to join NATO and buy western arms? Well, guess what, if was apparently Loch Ness Sub:
'Submarine' in Sweden was only civilian boat

A suspected submarine spotted in the Stockholm archipelago a week after Sweden's extensive hunt for Russian underwater vessels last autumn was only a civilian boat, Sweden's Armed Forces have now said. But they remain convinced that the first sighting was a small foreign sub.

On October 31st 2014, retired naval officer Sven Olof Kviman snapped a picture of what looked like a 20-30 metre long, black submarine in waters just outside Lidingö in Stockholm. The incident has remained unconfirmed, but has been classed by the military as a “potential” submarine.

But Rear Admiral Anders Grenstad has now told Swedish newspapers that the Armed Forces reported to the Swedish government last Wednesday that the suspected underwater vessel was in fact only a civilian “working boat”.

“The analysis has shown that the photograph taken in Stockholm's inner archipelago was of a smaller boat,” Grenstad told Dagens Nyheter on Monday.

According to Grenstad, the picture instead showed the boat “Time Bandit”, a 10.5 metre long, white plastic boat. But the boatman using the vessel on October 31st claimed the Swedish military had not been in contact with him.

“The navy hasn't spoken to me. My boat is visible in the picture – but not where the Armed Forces say it is, but further away,” he told Dagens Nyheter.

And Kviman, who participated in Sweden's Cold War submarine hunts in the 1980s and 90s, remains convinced of what he saw.

“It is completely impossible that we have got this wrong, it would mean both my wife and I were colour blind. 'Time Bandit', at a length of 10 metres, is of a completely different size to the submarine. I saw the submarine above water: the bow, stern and tower. It is always difficult to determine the size, but it was around 20-30 metres long,” he told Dagens Nyheter.

Between October 17th and 24th, Sweden launched an extensive naval search operation after a suspected foreign mini-sub – widely thought to be Russian – in the Stockholm archipelago. Grenstad confirmed that the Armed Forces' view is still that this incursion took place, although the military has never confirmed that the vessel came from Russia.

“The assessment that Swedish territory was violated in October 2014, remains in full,” he told Dagens Nyheter.

The Swedish Armed Forces said in a statement on their website late on Sunday that an inquiry into the October 17th-24th submarine incursion is ongoing and is expected to be completed later this spring.
Really, they should have either test how many subs of vodka the retired guy downed before "sighting" the submarine or just open Wikipedia, where they would learn the smallest Russian submarine on Baltic, Kilo-class, is about 80 m long, that is, three times too big. Ironically, what would fit perfectly the size stated are ex-Norwegian Kobbens, Type 207 German built subs, but there is this pesky detail they are currently flying NATO flag, being Polish ships delegated as part of our defence contribution.

But then again, what you expect from navy officers who apparently have no idea where Russian fleet is stationed or what ships they have, judging by their previous announcements.

Hmm, if I were a suspicious man, and there was any truth in sighting accusations, I'd ask myself if NATO didn't quietly contribute 'intruder' submarine so that Swedes could inflame whole scandal and push opinion polls a few more % in favour of joining NATO. But I am not, so I'm not going to invent fictional reality like Russophobes do. Though, I do wonder if Sweden will now apologise and call off two billion dollar military spending escalation, or was the whole hysteria PR campaign justifying it and it will proceed as planned?
You're reading the article wrong and Russian media has peddled the same nonsense. What was determined to have been a workboat called "Time Bandit" (not a fishing boat) was observed and photographed on October 31. That's one week after the previous sightings and observations during the October 17 to October 24 period which was confirmed (and still has that status) by the Swedish military. The observations and intelligence regarding the foreign submarine activity during October 17 to 24 took place in Nämdöfjorden (the Nämdö Fiord) in the archipelago of Stockholm while the observation that turned out to be "Time Bandit" on October 31 occurred near Lidingö (the inlet to Stockholm, watch Google Maps. Lidingö is marked and Nämdöfjorden lies between the islands of Nämdö and Ingarö 30 km to the south-east).

Also, as Rear Admiral Grenstad said in the very article you quoted:
“The assessment that Swedish territory was violated in October 2014, remains in full,” he told Dagens Nyheter.
The only Russophobia abound is that the Russian government is guilty of creating.
User avatar
Rogue 9
Scrapping TIEs since 1997
Posts: 18649
Joined: 2003-11-12 01:10pm
Location: Classified
Contact:

Re: Sweden: hunted Russian "submarine" just a fishing boat

Post by Rogue 9 »

Even if there were a Russian submarine in the sound, why would it surface?
It's Rogue, not Rouge!

HAB | KotL | VRWC/ELC/CDA | TRotR | The Anti-Confederate | Sluggite | Gamer | Blogger | Staff Reporter | Student | Musician
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Sweden: hunted Russian "submarine" just a fishing boat

Post by Thanas »

Water not deep enough for diving or obstacles on the bottom?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Lonestar
Keeper of the Schwartz
Posts: 13321
Joined: 2003-02-13 03:21pm
Location: The Bay Area

Re: Sweden: hunted Russian "submarine" just a fishing boat

Post by Lonestar »

Rogue 9 wrote:Even if there were a Russian submarine in the sound, why would it surface?
They were sending someone ashore for some reason?

They had some kind of problem and they had to surface?

Just because they are super badasses and they want to prove they can do anything?
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Post Reply