Uganda new "Imprison the Gay for lif" bill passes

[AniThyng]

Suppose the US / EU put their money where their mouth is and offer the Ugandan's a deal - All Ugandan's thus eligible to be imprisoned will instead be offered a place in a western, gay-friendly country as a refugee - what happens then?

[Thanas]

Suddenly Uganda is full of gays who want to get European/US work permits.

[AniThyng]

Let's assume that the standard to be imprisoned as a "homosexual" in Uganda extends beyond "I stated I was gay", and that the US/EU use whatever pysch evals they need to verify that yes, indeed this person is gay and thus qualifies to be a refugee from a despotic anti-gay government.

[Thanas]

Then they shall have the same rights as all asylum seekers everywhere.

[LaCroix]

Actually, the law itself would suffice as legal grounds for asylum in most european countries. If any of those gays with an actual warrant on their head for "being gay" managed to escape to Europe, getting asylum would be all but a formality.

[Thanas]

Actually, the law itself would suffice as legal grounds for asylum in most european countries. If any of those gays with an actual warrant on their head for "being gay" managed to escape to Europe, getting asylum would be all but a formality.

Indeed.

[AniThyng]

Yeah, but what would be the implications of the Europeans going "here's the deal, we will actively take your gays off your hands" - it seems like it might be more productive than saying "here's the deal, due to this law, we will withdraw all our commerce and financial support to your nation". (also, that means also no China coming in and saying "So we heard the europeans are leaving you to starve, well, we don't care what you do to your gay people, we'll take care of you"....)

[Thanas]

Yeah, but what would be the implications of the Europeans going "here's the deal, we will actively take your gays off your hands" - it seems like it might be more productive than saying "here's the deal, due to this law, we will withdraw all our commerce and financial support to your nation".

The testing is probably a) a violation of human rights in itself, it certainly would violate several clauses of the German constitution for once and b) inconclusive as no methodology really exists. So it would come down to trusting people at their word. Which is not a good way to conduct business.

Really, what you are proposing is completely unrealistic.

[AniThyng]

I suppose that's true. I just don't like the other kind of measure, e.g. punitive sanctions. It's something I think about sometimes because my country is not exactly legally friendly to homosexuals, yet I would not enjoy being say, put out of a job because say, the EU declared sanctions on my country on human rights grounds. And in a similar vein to what Channel72 brings up, I would much rather we deal with basic poverty and class/race/female inequality before working on homosexual equality, if we had to rank this sort of thing.*

*not that I think this is a thing that would happen - revelations that the country is plunged into economic crisis** because of gay rights is probably more likely to result in a pogrom than in an actual outburst of equality

**crisis, not catastrophe, because there's still China and the middle east which presumably would not be party to sanctions on human rights grounds

[Wing Commander MAD]

I wish this was getting more attention than that retarded Duck Dynasty bullshit.

For what its worth the Daily Show interviewed Roger Ross Williams the other night about his movie "God Loves Uganda". Not mainstream media, but it's better than nothing.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

I wish this was getting more attention than that retarded Duck Dynasty bullshit.

For what its worth the Daily Show interviewed Roger Ross Williams the other night about his movie "God Loves Uganda". Not mainstream media, but it's better than nothing.

Thanks for pointing that out. I was glad that Roger Ross Williams talked about the pathological obsession with sex of monstrous individuals like Scott Lively and his ilk.

[SAMAS]

He did bring it up, though. Apparently some Ugandans actually use what's effectively a buddy system to keep each other from watching porn.

And it's more needed than you'd think, given that Uganda is apparently like the third largest consumer of it.

[Wing Commander MAD]

He did bring it up, though. Apparently some Ugandans actually use what's effectively a buddy system to keep each other from watching porn.

And it's more needed than you'd think, given that Uganda is apparently like the third largest consumer of it.

I could have sworn that was the IHoP (not the pancake house) people who used a buddy system, and that according to the Google study he referenced Uganda was the 3rd largest consumer of homosexual pornography, not pornography in general.

[Kitsune]

More good news out of Nigeria

Nigerian gay man punished with 20 lashes, escapes death by stoning
10 Muslim men are being tried under Islamic law, with one Christian being tried under secular law, on charges of homosexuality
16 January 2014 | By Joe Morgan
President Goodluck Jonathan signed a bill into law banning homosexuality.

A Nigerian man was punished with 20 lashes after being found to be gay.

In the northern city of Bauchi, 10 Muslim men were arrested for belonging to a gay rights organization.

They will be tried under Islamic law, where homosexual acts are sentenced to death by stoning.

One Christian, also arrested, will be tried under secular law. He could face jail for up to 14 years.

The Nigerian, who was among the men arrested, was also ordered to pay a fine of about $30 (€22).

With the trial of two other men adjourned to 23 January, the fates of the rest of the men are unknown.

Police have confirmed to Amnesty International they have a list of suspected LGBTI people in Bauchi as part of their ‘profiling of criminals’.

An assistant commissioner of police said: ‘The police have a list of suspected gay people under surveillance.

‘We use the list to conduct our surveillance [...] We also use it to find out who their victims are.’

It is being alleged police are using torture to obtain other names of gay men in Nigeria.

It emerged earlier this week President Goodluck Jonathan signed the ‘Jail All The Gays’ bill.

Under secular law, the legislation bans same-sex marriage, criminalizes gay clubs and associations, and sets up prison terms of up to 14 years.

Openly gay people risk being imprisoned whether or not they have sex.

Anybody who knows somebody who is gay will have to tell the authorities or go to jail for five years.

[SAMAS]

He did bring it up, though. Apparently some Ugandans actually use what's effectively a buddy system to keep each other from watching porn.

And it's more needed than you'd think, given that Uganda is apparently like the third largest consumer of it.

I could have sworn that was the IHoP (not the pancake house) people who used a buddy system, and that according to the Google study he referenced Uganda was the 3rd largest consumer of homosexual pornography, not pornography in general.

You're right, it was the IHoP. And yeah, they did the Pancake line, too.

[Kinyo]

Not posted in a while so here is an update on the Ugandan bill.

Uganda President Yoweri Museveni blocks anti-gay law

Uganda's President Yoweri Museveni has refused to approve a controversial bill to toughen punishments for homosexuals.

He has written to the parliamentary speaker criticising her for passing it in December without a quorum.

Homosexuals were "abnormal" or were so for "mercenary reasons" and could be "rescued", a local paper quotes his letter as saying.

The bill provides for life imprisonment for homosexual acts and also makes it a crime not to report gay people.

The promotion of homosexuality - even talking about it without condemning the lifestyle - would also be punishable by a prison term.

The BBC's Catherine Byaruhanga in the capital, Kampala, says the president is aware that if he signs the bill there will be an international outcry, which could see some countries suspend aid to the country.


In December a gay rights campaigner spoke of her fears about the legislation
His spokesman told the AFP news agency that Mr Museveni believes that gay people are sick but this does not mean they should be killed or jailed for life.

"What the president has being saying is that we shall not persecute these homosexuals and lesbians. That is the point," said Tamale Mirudi.

He denied that the president had changed his mind under pressure.

"The president's position has been the same for a long time, nothing has changed," he added.

Our reporter says Mr Museveni is trying to reach a compromise with MPs, because if he refuses to sign the bill, parliament can still force it through with a two-thirds vote.

But in contrast to Nigeria, where earlier this month the president signed a bill banning same-sex marriages, gay groups and shows of same-sex public affection, Mr Museveni is politically strong and so more able to resist pressure from conservative groups, she says.

'Sexual starvation'
Mr Museveni said the bill was forced through despite his advice to shelve it until the government had studied it in depth, Uganda's private Monitor newspaper reports.

"Even with legislation, they will simply go underground and continue practicing [sic] homosexuality or lesbianism for mercenary reasons," he is quoted as saying.

The president's eight-page letter to speaker Rebecca Kadaga said they could be "rescued" by improving the economy.

He also disputed the view that homosexuality could be described as an "alternative sexual orientation".

"You cannot call an abnormality an alternative orientation. It could be that the Western societies, on account of random breeding, have generated many abnormal people," he said.

He said another reason women became lesbians was because of "sexual starvation" when they failed to marry, the Monitor reports.

'Derogatory'
Ugandan gay rights activist Pepe Julian Onziema told the BBC's Focus on Africa programme she had mixed feelings about Mr Museveni's comments.

"Him not assenting to the bill makes us happy but him calling us 'abnormal', 'nothing-doers', 'sexually starved', that is so derogatory," she said.

"It encourages the community to attack people like me."

There is meant to be a caucus meeting of ruling party MPs later this month to discuss the bill.

The government will try to persuade them to reject it, but some have already said they would go against their government's wishes, our correspondent says.

Human rights activists say the bill highlights the intolerance and discrimination the gay community faces in Uganda.

One gay activist was killed in 2011, although the police denied he was targeted because of his sexuality.

The bill has been condemned by world leaders since it was mooted in 2009 - US President Barack Obama called it "odious".

The private member's bill originally proposed the death penalty for some offences, such as if a minor was involved or the perpetrator was HIV-positive, but this clause has been dropped.

Link

[Kitsune]

Not a progressive stance but better than I feared

[FaxModem1]

Scott Lively being tried for his encouraging of this law:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/0 ... 25003.html

I'm curious as to what his defense will be, considering he was rather public about his support for it.

[fgalkin]

Not a progressive stance but better than I feared

Even if his real beliefs were more progressive, do you think he could reveal them openly in a country as homophobic as Uganda without harming his political career?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Kitsune]

Not a progressive stance but better than I feared

Even if his real beliefs were more progressive, do you think he could reveal them openly in a country as homophobic as Uganda without harming his political career?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

While that could be true, I only have what he said