Father beats man to death; sheriff says dad reacted to his d

[amigocabal]

Father beats man to death; sheriff says dad reacted to his daughter, 4, being sexually assaulted

SHINER - A father caught a man molesting his 4-year-old daughter and beat him to death Saturday, the Lavaca County sheriff said.

Sheriff Micah Harmon said the death occurred about 3:45 p.m. in a residence along County Road 302 near Shiner.

The name of the deceased man, a 47-year-old from Gonzales, was not released because his relatives have not been notified, Harmon said. And authorities have not identified the girl nor her father. The Advocate's policy is to not print the names of sexual assault victims.

No arrests have yet been made in the case.

Harmon said the resident of the home caught the Gonzales man attempting to molest his daughter and attempted to stop him. In the process, Harmon said, the resident physically struck the Gonzales man in the head several times, killing him.

The girl was taken to DeTar Hospital Navarro in Victoria for an examination.

Harmon said the case remains under investigation. He said he did not know what charges, if any, would be filed.

The Gonzales man's body was taken to Travis County for an autopsy. He was declared dead at the scene by Alene Lyons, the justice of the peace, Precinct 4, in Lavaca County.

If this be true, the dead man was truly a nithing.

[TheFeniX]

Gonzales, done some work in and around there over the years. Kind of the ass end in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, Texas Self-Defense Laws tell us deadly force is justifiable:

to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

I'm assuming the home was the father's. If charges are filed, they'll have to focus on the likelyhood the man was in a rage at the idea of his daughter being hurt, thus setting up a motive of revenge over protection. Would be a tough sell. It's likely they'll decline to charge.

[amigocabal]

Gonzales, done some work in and around there over the years. Kind of the ass end in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, Texas Self-Defense Laws tell us deadly force is justifiable:

to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

I'm assuming the home was the father's. If charges are filed, they'll have to focus on the likelyhood the man was in a rage at the idea of his daughter being hurt, thus setting up a motive of revenge over protection. Would be a tough sell. It's likely they'll decline to charge.

It would also depend on whether the beating was after the fact, or during the process of the sexual assault.

For example, had Charles Whitman not been shot inside the tower, but instead was shot after the fact and after he ditched the weapon, it would arguably be unlawful homicide (assuming he was not threatening anyone else). But he was shot while in the tower, and as such Officers McCoy and Martinez did not face criminal charges.

It would be a tough sell to prosecute a father who beat to death a man who molested his daughter after the fact. Trying to convince a jury, conceding that the child molester was killed during the sexual assault, would be like trying to convince them to eat fecal matter.

[Ahriman238]

According to the article, the dad caught him in the act, and beat his head in stopping him.

I'd be surprised if Texas prosecuted this case.

[mr friendly guy]

If the story is true, the deceased is a douchebag. That being said, its also possible for someone to murder another person then claim the deceased was attempting to sexually assault their kid. We really need more information.

[amigocabal]

If the story is true, the deceased is a douchebag. That being said, its also possible for someone to murder another person then claim the deceased was attempting to sexually assault their kid. We really need more information.

The article says the girl is being examined. Any final decision on this case would likely turn on that, as well as any criminal history by the deceased.

Also, a better word to described the deceased, if the allegations be true, is nithing.

[madd0ct0r]

until we know either way, he is the deceased.

after we know, well, you can piss on his grave, but until then innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Still, the evidence is stacked against the deceased, since if the father was lying he'd could have picked a story less easy to corroborate.

[Dominus Atheos]

Gonzales, done some work in and around there over the years. Kind of the ass end in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, Texas Self-Defense Laws tell us deadly force is justifiable:

to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

I'm assuming the home was the father's. If charges are filed, they'll have to focus on the likelyhood the man was in a rage at the idea of his daughter being hurt, thus setting up a motive of revenge over protection. Would be a tough sell. It's likely they'll decline to charge.

I'm not defending the deceased or anything, but those laws usually include "in progress" (this one says "imminent") and are usually interpreted as meaning to stop the crime at that moment. If the father hit the guy in the head with a baseball bat as he was molesting the girl or even if he only just stopped when he saw the baseball bat, that would covered.

However, if the father pulled the guy off his daughter and then beat him to death after it was apparent that the crime was over, that's a much more legal grey area.

Again, not defending the alleged pedophile, please don't ban me.

[General Zod]

So what's the relationship between the dead guy and the girl's dad? What was he doing in their home to begin with?

[tim31]

Not enough facts, and probably won't be in the media until the police have done their work and it gets to court. If it does.

I couldn't say I wouldn't react the same way. Human mind's funny like that.

[someone_else]

dunno, I thought hitting people on the head multiple times with a hard object is a more or less sure way to kill them.

To incapacitate you can aim much lower like say crotch or legs (especially knees, very weak point that will cause tons of pain).

But in movies they generally hit the head to achieve a stun effect so... also I understand that most people would not be very lucid if their offspring is at risk of sexual assault (which I personally rate as a fate "worse than death").

[Phantasee]

Only people that have never been in a fight would say "should have taken out his knee". Fucking armchair tacticians...

[Lord Revan]

Not to mention that if someone caught a person trying to harm their offspring their first reaction would probably be less "I'll hit him to incapacitate him" and more "you scum I'll tear you apart with my bare hands if I have to!", only doing reasonble things after they had time to think about it (and worse the harm longer the parent would be in the "berserk mode" so to speak).

what I'm trying to say is that the father's first instinct might have been to go for a killing strike rather then a disabling one and only later he (the father that is) realised that did he start to hold back, only by that time the damage had already been done.

[bilateralrope]

To incapacitate you can aim much lower like say crotch or legs (especially knees, very weak point that will cause tons of pain).

There is the problem of which parts were accessible to the father, and which parts involved a risk of hitting his daughter.

If you're trying to harm a rapist mid-rape, aiming for their crotch seems like it will have the highest chance of hitting the rape victim.

[Lord Revan]

there's also the thing that you're kind of assuming the father was acting by logical thinking and not by instinct

[bilateralrope]

You already covered that point. I'm not saying that I think someone could act logically in that situation. I'm just saying that aiming for the knees/crotch is unlikely to have been the logical choice if the father was able to think things through.

[General Zod]

dunno, I thought hitting people on the head multiple times with a hard object is a more or less sure way to kill them.

To incapacitate you can aim much lower like say crotch or legs (especially knees, very weak point that will cause tons of pain).

But in movies they generally hit the head to achieve a stun effect so... also I understand that most people would not be very lucid if their offspring is at risk of sexual assault (which I personally rate as a fate "worse than death").

If you want to incapacitate someone you go for the soft spots like the eyes, the nose or the throat. Going for the legs won't be effective unless you've got a lot of muscle.

[General Zod]

In any case here's something with more facts than the op has: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/justice/t ... index.html

(CNN) -- A Texas father caught a man sexually assaulting his 4-year-old daughter and punched him in the head repeatedly, killing him, authorities said.

The father was casually acquainted with the alleged abuser, said Lavaca County Sheriff Micah Harmon.

Neither has been publicly identified.

The girl was left inside the family's house during the social gathering, while other members of her family were tending to horses, the sheriff said.

The alleged abuser was known for his horse-grooming abilities, Harmon said.

The father returned to the house, caught the man in the act, and stopped him by striking him in the head several times, Harmon said.

The man was pronounced dead on the scene, while the daughter was taken to a local hospital in Victoria, Texas, for examinations before being released.

Man kills his alleged abuser

The incident took place Saturday.

Harmon described the girl as "OK besides the obvious mental trauma."

Asked whether they would press charges against the father, the sheriff responded, "You have a right to defend your daughter. He acted in defense of his third person. Once the investigation is completed we will submit it to the district attorney who then submits it to the grand jury, who will decide if they will indict him."

Harmon described the dad as "very remorseful," adding that he didn't know the man was going to die.

Authorities were withholding the deceased man's name while they notified next of kin. Officials did not know immediately if he has a prior criminal history.

Lavaca County Precinct Judge Alene Lyons, who is coordinating information in the case including autopsy results, said Monday

that a preliminary autopsy report indicated the victim "died from blunt-force head and neck injuries."

"It will take six weeks to get the full report back because they also did a toxicology report," Lyons said.

[Mr Bean]

I'm not defending the deceased or anything, but those laws usually include "in progress" (this one says "imminent") and are usually interpreted as meaning to stop the crime at that moment. If the father hit the guy in the head with a baseball bat as he was molesting the girl or even if he only just stopped when he saw the baseball bat, that would covered.

However, if the father pulled the guy off his daughter and then beat him to death after it was apparent that the crime was over, that's a much more legal grey area.

Gotta agree with Dominus here both on the legal issues and the reaction.

However I'll add, were I in the jury in this case even if the prosecution proved to me that the first blow stopped the assault and the man just keep hitting him I'd have a hard time casting guilt. You came into the room to find this... individual raping your daughter, most people would see red.. rational thought would be pretty unlikely and if you were the kind of person who could make that call you likely would hit them and keep hitting them until they stopped moving.

Since it does not sound like he stopped hitting him to go get a bat or anything other than jumping on and hitting the guy until he stopped moving, if that's the way this went down I'd easily vote for justifiable homicide. As long as the attack was continuous, as long as there was no pause where he caught is breath, any time when the rage could have ebbed and he chose to keep going then yes justified.

[The Spartan]

Update: Heard this morning on the radio that charges will not be filed against the father.

[Dalton]

No charges filed. Under Texas law, it's legal to use deadly force to stop a sexual assault.

MSNBC.com story

SHINER, Texas -- Hearing his 5-year-old daughter crying from behind a barn, a father ran and discovered the unthinkable: A man molesting her. The father pulled the man off his daughter, authorities say, and started pummeling him to death with his fists.

With his daughter finally safe, the father frantically called 911, begging a dispatcher to find his rural ranch and send an ambulance. "Come on! This guy is going to die on me!" the man is heard screaming on the 911 call. "I don't know what to do!"

A recording of the tape was played during a news conference Tuesday where the Lavaca County district attorney and sheriff announced that the father will not face charges.

In declining to indict the 23-year-old father in the June 9 killing of Jesus Mora Flores, a Lavaca County grand jury reached the same conclusion as investigators and many of the father's neighbors: He was authorized to use deadly force to protect his daughter.

"It's sad a man had to die," said Michael James Veit, 48, who lives across the street from where the attack happened in this small community run on ranching and the Shiner beer brewery. "But I think anybody would have done that."

Father's desperate 911 call

The family ranch is so remote that on the 911 tape, the father is heard screaming at a dispatcher who couldn't locate the property. At one point, he tells the dispatcher he's going to put the man in his truck and drive him to a hospital.

"He's going to die!" the father screams, swearing at the dispatcher. "He's going to f------ die!"

The tense, nearly five-minute call begins with the father saying he "beat up" a man found raping his daughter. The father grows increasingly frazzled, shouting into the phone so loudly at times that the call often becomes inaudible.

The Associated Press is not identifying the father in order to protect the daughter's identity. The AP generally does not identify victims of sexual assault.

"He's a peaceable soul," V'Anne Huser, the father's attorney, told reporters at the Lavaca County Courthouse.

The San Antonio Express reported that Huser said the father "had no intention to kill anyone on that day."

"In our opinion, the story is over. You will not get an interview from (the father) or his family," she said, according to the paper, asking for the family to be left alone.

The attack happened on the family's ranch off a quiet, two-lane county road between the farming towns of Shiner and Yoakum.

Ran toward his child's screams

A statement released by the district attorney said a witness who saw Flores "forcibly carrying" the girl into a secluded area scrambled to find the father.

Running toward his daughter's screams, the father pulled Flores off his child and "inflicted several blows to the man's head and neck area," investigators said.

Emergency crews responding to the father's 911 call found Flores' pants and underwear pulled down on his lifeless body. The girl was examined at a hospital, and Lavaca County District Attorney Heather McMinn said forensic evidence and witness accounts corroborated the father's story that his daughter was being sexually molested.

The father was never arrested, but the killing was investigated as a homicide.

Philip Hilder, a Houston criminal defense attorney and former federal prosecutor, said he would have been surprised if the grand jury had decided to indict the father. Hilder said Texas law provides several justifications for the use of deadly force, including if someone commits a sexual assault.

"The grand jury was not about to indict this father for protecting his daughter," he said.

Authorities said the family had hired Flores before to help with horses on the ranch. He was not born in the U.S., but was here legally with a green card. Attempts to locate Flores' relatives through public records were unsuccessful.

On Tuesday, a new "No Trespassing" sign was freshly tacked onto a gate barring entrance down a gravelly, shrub-canopied path leading to the barn and chicken coop on the ranch, which belonged to the father's dad.

At the father's house, the front yard could pass for a children's playground: Blue pinwheels sunk into patchy grass, an above-ground swimming pool, a swing set, a trampoline and a couple of ropes dangling from a tree for swinging. A partial privacy fence is painted powder blue.

No one answered at the father's home. A few miles away, at a home listed as belonging to the father's sister, a woman shouted through the front door that the family had nothing to say. Huser, the father's attorney, told reporters that neither the father nor anyone else in the family would ever give interviews and asked that they be left alone.

Veit, who lives near the ranch, described the father as easygoing and polite - down to always first asking permission to search Veit's property for animals that had wandered off the ranch, even though the families have long known each other.

Veit's son was a classmate of the father's at Shiner High School in a graduating class of about two dozen. Veit, 48, said the young father was never known to be in trouble.

"Just like a regular kid, went to dances, drank beer like the rest of the kids around here," Veit said.

'Traumatized for life'

Shiner, a town of about 2,000 people about 80 miles east of San Antonio, revolves around the Spoetzl Brewery that makes Shiner, one of the nation's best-selling independent beers. Even gas stations here sell it on tap.

Flores' death is only the sixth homicide the Lavaca County Sheriff's Office has investigated in the last eight years. Shiner residents boast their squeaky-clean image on a highway welcome sign: "The Cleanest Little City in Texas."

At Werner's Restaurant, customer Gail Allen said she didn't want to speak for the whole town, though her comments echoed what others said.

"The father has gone through enough," said Allen, 59, who has nine grandchildren. "The little girl is going to be traumatized for life, and the father, too, for what happened. He was protecting his family. Any parent would do that."

Patrons at Howard's Convenience Store told the San Antonio Express that they also backed the father.

"I think it's great, they should have given him a medal for what he did, defending his daughter," Leroy Wagner, 79, told the paper.

"He was being a responsible father, any responsible father would have done the same thing," added Joe Marek, 59, a local electrician.

And Victor Casper, 65, a retired county worker, told the Epxress, "If it was my kids, I would have done the same thing. I would have defended them, too."

[Korgeta]

I think its right the father is not to be prosecuted, also it is worth pointing out that people easily forget just how damaging a punch to the head can be, people have died by one punch, if struck with enough force (along with the floor the head hits on) the father was in a fit of rage and lashed out without realizing that the intent to make the guy suffer would ultimatey lead to that guy's death. Reading some of the 9/11 transcript it sounds like that despite everything he does try his best to save the man's life in spite of everything.

The only thing that matters is that the young father and his daughter get the counselling and help they need out of this ordeal.

[General Zod]

I think its right the father is not to be prosecuted, also it is worth pointing out that people easily forget just how damaging a punch to the head can be, people have died by one punch, if struck with enough force (along with the floor the head hits on) the father was in a fit of rage and lashed out without realizing that the intent to make the guy suffer would ultimatey lead to that guy's death. Reading some of the 9/11 transcript it sounds like that despite everything he does try his best to save the man's life in spite of everything.

The only thing that matters is that the young father and his daughter get the counselling and help they need out of this ordeal.

You have to hit them in just the right spot to kill them in one blow so it's not just a matter of "force". If a weakling like me can live through taking a faceplant in the cement from a moving bicycle I'd think you need quite a bit more.

[Sinanju]

I think its right the father is not to be prosecuted, also it is worth pointing out that people easily forget just how damaging a punch to the head can be, people have died by one punch, if struck with enough force (along with the floor the head hits on) the father was in a fit of rage and lashed out without realizing that the intent to make the guy suffer would ultimatey lead to that guy's death. Reading some of the 9/11 transcript it sounds like that despite everything he does try his best to save the man's life in spite of everything.

The only thing that matters is that the young father and his daughter get the counselling and help they need out of this ordeal.

Something like that actually happened at my high school. Two dumbasses got into it in the parking lot and started trading punches. Usually this is the kind of thing that ends with bruises and suspensions/expulsions, except one of them took a shot to the temple and was dead before he hit the ground. I think the guy who hit him is still in jail right now, actually.

[FSTargetDrone]

I think it says quite a bit about the father that he was so forceful in urging the dispatcher to get help to the very man who had just assaulted his daughter.