Ron Paul Supporters Cause County Convention Chaos

[SirNitram]

More County Chaos!

Over the weekend, Republicans in the 37th Legislative District gathered to choose delegates to the state GOP convention.

The caucus started out Saturday morning inside Dimmitt Middle School. But it didn't end inside the building.

After supporters of Texas Congressman Ron Paul elected one of their own to chair of the meeting, the gathering was booted to an outside basketball court by King County Republican Party Chairman Lori Sotelo.

The move came after attendees irritated Sotelo by rejecting her choice to run the caucus - former King County Councilman David Irons.

Instead, the group voted for Tamara Smilanich, a Paul supporter.

That prompted Sotelo to declare the meeting was no longer a Republican Party event - but a Ron Paul campaign event.

Sotelo says she asked the group to continue its meeting outside because the King County Republican Party -- not the Paul campaign -- had paid for the facility and for the insurance. She added that Smilanich stopped her from addressing the group.

"I said, 'I am going to have to step away from responsibility and have to ask you to take your caucus elsewhere,' " Sotelo said in an interview.

Sotelo called Smilanich a Paul campaign "operative" who did not have the experience to run the caucus. She said there was no reason for the Paul supporters to "take over" the meeting -- they had numbers and were going to elect their favored delegates no matter who chaired the caucus.

"There is no other campaign that feels the need to poke the party in the eye like the Ron Paul campaign," said Sotelo. "For heaven's sake stop hitting us with a firehose."

But Smilanich said she saw nothing wrong with what happened at the caucus.

"There was a vote and the vote went to elect [the chairman] who the body wanted. Everything was legitimate," Smilanich said.

Even though the GOP had reserved the room until 2 p.m., the meeting was pushed outside to the basketball court at about 12:30 p.m. The caucus finished its business outside in the sun, and elected 11 Ron Paul supporters to the state convention, which begins May 31 in Tacoma.

Despite asserting the caucus had ceased to be a Republican Party function once Smilanich was elected chair, Sotelo said she had no plans to challenge the legitimacy of those delegates.

One caucus attendee, Michael Brubaker, was so upset by Sotelo's actions he's suing her in small claims court. That's because each caucus-goer paid $10 to participate - money Sotelo said was to help pay for the party's expenses for using the school. But Sotelo refused to refund the money after the group was moved outside.

"She shouldn't have taken our money and kicked us out," Brubaker said.

The dust-up is the latest in a series of disputes between Paul supporters and local GOP officials.

Paul's supporters have repeatedly accused GOP leaders of conspiring against his campaign.

Republican leaders, meanwhile, have been irritated at what they see as rude, disruptive and paranoid behavior by the Paul supporters.

They're also concerned that many Paul supporters have refused to say they'll back the Republican Party's presidential nominee, now all but certain to be Mitt Romney.

Indeed, Smilanich said she would have considered backing Rick Santorum, the former Pennsylvania senator who recently suspended his presidential campaign.

But, she said, "I don't care for Mitt Romney."

No signs of the equivalent happening in the Dem arrangements. Which is a bit sad, because we could use another week of The Vermin Supreme in the news.

[LaCroix]

Just assuming the first round of the convention is without result, freeing up all the 'snatched' delegates, how many delegates do support Paul currently?

The last two 'news'-posting here in the thread do imply that he snatched at least 50% - much more than he actually won - and that in just two (minor relevant?) states... So from only this bit, he's at least 50+ votes stronger in the second round, and he has done this spiel everywhere before people caught up to what he's doing, so who knows how many sleepers he has planted.

[bobalot]

With these numbers, how can Ron Paul's supporters justify using some bullshit technicality to ignore the will of the other 89-90% of voters?

Because the whole system is a bullshit technicality. I agree with Hugo Chavez, we need to fix the American elections.

Looking at how they do things in Iran and France makes me jealous. People turn out to their first round of elections and have a variety of choices.

IIRC about a total of 400 people turned out to the Republican primary in my county yesterday. 400 people, out of a county of 100,000.

The surrounding counties are similar in turnout.


I personally didn't even get a chance to go out, since I'm registered as a Democrat, and the party elite are shoving King Obama down my throat. (And, in 2008, New York was so late that it was after America's best congressman, Dennis Kucinich, had already withdrew from the race.)



Does having 90% of the turnout matter if it represents less than 1% of the voters?

So you are saying it's okay for Ron Paul's supporters to hoist their will over the other 90% of Republican voters who took the effort to vote (literally as of this post, 11 million people) because the whole system is corrupt (your claim)?

[SirNitram]

Destructionator, this is a party primary. Be glad it's better than American's Elect, which is based on the approval of anonymous rich guys entirely. The GOP has decided to pick it's nominee this way. No, it's not ideal. There are several courses to be taken. Lobby for more open primaries, so even registered dems can vote in the GOP primary. Petition for a change in the state order. Hell, get into the RNC itself and work to reform the entire primary system. It's the 21st century, we don't need one state at a time. Feel free to try the same on the Dems.

But your last post is coming off as merely sour grapes that Ron Paul lacks support in the voters who are expressing themselves so far. Yea, sure, his tactic is legal. But it also is liable to piss off ALOT of folks. Ron Paul may be suitably racist and anti-abortion, but he'd need more than just those two categories to win.

[SirNitram]

Yes, I know the French system. You don't need to explain it in minutae. And yes, I think it'd be superior. Like I said, hate the present system that much, go and try to change it.

Your assumptions on the reasons for voting doesn't bother me. The GOP is not the French people. The ones in position now have a rabid, viscereal hate.. And if they want to vote on their hate, I'll be OK with that.

[bobalot]

I'm saying there's been about 14,000,000 votes so far in this election. There's about 140,000,000 registered voters in the country.

The elections don't all take place at the same time, with some states going earlier to get more attention, and some going later - and virtually ignored. (There's still I believe 14 states - including Ron Paul's home state of Texas - who have not yet voted in this election.)

Most the voters, even in most the states who have voted, were not allowed to participate because they aren't registered with the right party. Only about 1/3 of registered voters are registered Republican.

These are all facts.

So? These are internal polls for a private organisation. These votes are for a candidacy position in that private organisation. Why should outsiders be allowed to participate in all of these*?

As for the timing, I'm assuming elections don't happen at the same time as it would be difficult for candidates (particularly with less funds) to campaign effectively across all the states at once.

*Yes, I'm aware some of these polls are open primaries. However, it's understandable if a private organisation only wants its members/voters to choose its own candidate. This is the norm throughout the western world.

When you realize Mitt Romney has only 4% of the popular vote, not 90%, and the sample is biased by the above facts, it makes this "will of the people" popular mandate argument fall apart.

It was the popular will of Republican voters voting for a Republican candidate through the Republican primary process. You do realise we are talking about a political party going through its internal processes to select a candidate? Or are you intentionally muddying the waters?

So, why should these votes have any legitimacy at all? Why should this small, biased sample be able to make a decision for all of us?

Who said they were making the "decision for all of us"? It is making the decision for the Republican party by it's registered voters/members.

BTW, even by national polls, Ron Paul is unpopular. He is unpopular within the Republican party and nationally. That's something Paulbots refuse to accept.

Before you say "the law"... remember, Ron Paul's strategy is legal too.

Yes, Ron Paul and his supporters are following the internal rules or "laws" of the Republican party. There is a difference between following the letter of the rule and following the spirit of the rules.

Ron Paul willingly joined the Republican party and when he did, he agreed to abide the rules and social norms of that party. Nobody forced Ron Paul to run on the Republican ticket. However, as soon as things looked like he wouldn't win, he ditched all that and basically started shitting all over 11 million other Republican voters with incredibly brazen delegate hijacking (through technicalities).

What's amazing is that after shitting all over the Republican party, he still expects to use its infrastructure if he were to force himself into the Republican candidacy. The arrogance of Ron Paul and his supporters is a amazing sight to watch.

I'm going to love when the whole delusion crashes and burns.

[Block]

Or people could ya know, participate in the primaries.

[evilsoup]

Wait, seriously, you can't be in multiple parties? Is there a central database where you register your affiliation? Surely it would be done independently by each party, given the standard American freedometc rhetoric.

[Stark]

Oh man, you need to find out about how American 'democracy' works. You'll understand the lol of the primaries in a much deeper way.

[Flagg]

Wait, seriously, you can't be in multiple parties? Is there a central database where you register your affiliation? Surely it would be done independently by each party, given the standard American freedometc rhetoric.

Unless your state has an open primary, you choose your party affiliation when you register to vote, and when you go to cast your ballot in the primary the poll worker looks at the voter rolls and gives you the ballot to whichever party you chose.

[evilsoup]

But... that's insane, it goes against the spirit of a secret ballot.
Mind=blown

[bobalot]

So Ron Paul isn't brazenly forcing himself onto the American people (according to DX13, this effects everybody) despite his massive unpopularity and the unpopularity of many of his stated policies, he's actually taking on a "corrupt" electoral system with his actions. His disregard of mere things like social conventions and things like the "popular will" are actually for the greater good.

The delusion of Paulbots is astounding. If Ron Paul were the front runner and some other candidate did this to Ron Paul, I can guarantee you that his supporters would never accept this bullshit excuse.

[Napoleon the Clown]

The more I read about Ron Paul's supporters the more convinced I'm becoming that a huge percent of them are just whiny little shits crying over having rules they have to follow. And instead of going about changing the rules in a civilized manner they throw tantrums like little kids. They find and exploit loopholes, they hijack caucuses... Instead of saying "I don't like the rules so I'm going to talk to the people who can change them, try to become someone who can change them" they say "I don't like the rules so I'm going to be disruptive until I get my way. No temper-tantrum is too great!"

And I'm going to agree with the opinion that Paul should have gone with a third party if he's not willing to do things in an organized way, preferring to find a loophole to exploit since he's not popular enough to win in a traditional manner. If he's got so damn much support over Obama why the hell does he not run third party? I'm going to go with "Because he doesn't really have the popularity it takes to beat Obama." And he knows it. He knows he can't win on his own merits. He's gotta pander to the people who hate Obama for being a Democrat and will thus vote for anything with an (R) in front of their name.

[bobalot]

Ron Paul claims the Byzantine Empire never started any wars in a debate with Paul Krguman.

The sheer asshattery of Ron Paul once again astonishes all.

[SirNitram]

What do you expect when he was cornered by an actual Doctor of economics(And Nobel Laurete)? It's hilarious how he went back to the Byzantine's, though. He decided that, instead of discuss anything modern, he'd assume what he wants about the economy of the Empire, and then claim it crashed it. I can see why he'd want to avoid discussions of economic policies of the past century or two.. We have good data on that, and it's harder to lie about that(Not that a damn one of Paul's fanboys will doubt a word he said), but leaping to the Byzantine's, and our almost nil knowledge of their economy, is amusing, when it's so blatant he's just affixing his preferred narratives onto it. No one will challenge him officially.

[BrooklynRedLeg]

[TimothyC]

You do realize that the video is showing how the Paulites are going against the popular votes to change the outcome because their guy didn't win right?

You are digging your own hole here.

[Aaron MkII]

Whats the hard on for this guy anyways? Most of what I've heard and read seems to indicate that both the GOP and the Dems hate him, so that means obstruction from both parties rather then just one with Obama.

[Block]

Whats the hard on for this guy anyways? Most of what I've heard and read seems to indicate that both the GOP and the Dems hate him, so that means obstruction from both parties rather then just one with Obama.

A lot of his followers want a do nothing government.

[Gandalf]

Dennis J. Kucinich isn't running for president in 2012, but he is the best man for the job.... and it is our duty to America and to the world to thrust that power upon him.

Write in Dennis Kucinich. He represents us, not big business. He's the real peace candidate.

Kucinich is the hero America needs.

Ron Paul is the hero America deserves.

[UnderAGreySky]

Now, Ron Paul is the mainstream candidate making that same promise.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

It doesn't help that King Obama's tyrannical regime is cartoonishly evil.

Remember in 2008 how naive suckers bought into His Majesty's "hope and change" horseshit?

Turns out we got a lot of change, most of it for the worse. That's not what a lot of people wanted.

Now, Ron Paul is the mainstream candidate making that same promise.

Hmm, why should we believe Ron Paul will stick to his promises any more than Obama, and what makes you think Ron Paul will be able to execute everything on his agenda, AND what makes you think there are those of us here that do not consider Ron Paul's agenda - abolishing a lot of the Federal Government - as *evil*?

Because from our point of view, withdrawing from South Korea at one go would be evil; abolishing the FDA and EPA and Fed would be monstrously evil whether it is done in an ignorant or intentional fashion.

[bobalot]

"Small Government" Ron Paul and Michelle Bachman Co-Sponsor anti-abortion bill.

Last week Republican presidential candidate Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) and former presidential candidate Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) have joined forces behind yet another anti-abortion bill.

Paul, who hasn’t managed to show up for a majority of congressional votes this year due to his campaign schedule has made supporting the Stop Abortion Funding in Multi-state Exchange Plans (SAFE) Act a priority. The bill would block any multi-state health plan from offering coverage for elective abortions.

According to Paul and other Republican supporters, making sure federal funding does not go to providing comprehensive women’s health coverage is a necessity despite the fact that federal law already prohibits the use of taxpayer funding for abortion.

Under the bill the government would have to ensure that “no multi-State qualified health plan offered in an Exchange provides coverage of abortion.” Like other federal funding bans the bill allows a narrow exception in the case of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at risk.

Given Paul’s support it’s probably safe to assume the rape exception is only in those cases of an “honest rape.”

In a final twist of hypocrisy from Paul and the other “states rights” sponsors, the bill prohibits states from pre-empting the law and guaranteeing coverage on their own. That means that the states are beholden to the federal government here, because Paul and his supporters believe that freedom from unnecessary government intrusion is apparently a right only held by men.

Ron Paul telling women what they can do with their bodies... For Liberty!
Ron Paul for small government.... small enough to fit inside every uterus.

I await awesome rationalisations by Paulbots. BrooklynRedLeg?

[LaCroix]

I just took the time to tally up all the actual numbers (including the "grab") I could find, and compared them with this wiki
http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Republican_P ... ries,_2012

Numbers seem correct, which means that RP is currently leading 130 - 90 in first ballot, and 50% of Romney's delegates are Paulites just waiting for the second ballot.

[bobalot]

I just took the time to tally up all the actual numbers (including the "grab") I could find, and compared them with this wiki
http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Republican_P ... ries,_2012

Numbers seem correct, which means that RP is currently leading 130 - 90 in first ballot, and 50% of Romney's delegates are Paulites just waiting for the second ballot.

With sources like a youtube video and a post from www.dailypaul.com (see notes 2 and 6) presented as evidence, who could doubt such totals?

Then there is the evidence presented for Ron Paul taking all 24 delegates from Maine from the speculative article Maine caucuses provide a window into Ron Paul delegate strategy

Evidence in the article that Ron Paul got all 24 delegates?

But due to Paul supporters’ superior organization in the low-turnout caucuses, those projections could be way off, and the libertarian-leaning Texas congressman could well sweep Maine’s 24 delegates at the August Republican National Convention.

Many people (who aren't retarded) may suggest this is not actual evidence in anyway shape or form that Ron Paul took all the delegates. Other less partisan websites have Ron Paul on 8 and 10. I suspect the people at wiki.mises.org maybe using Austrian school mathematics.

Seriously, do you actually believe this bullshit?

RealClearpolitics has Romney on 865 and Ron Paul on 93.
The New York Times has Romney on 847 and Paul on 80.

[LaCroix]

I checked the numbers against info from "Reality Check" and "Rachel Maddow", along with other news sites from the web, none of those Paulite sites - they do report these numbers, as well.

The NYT numbers are wrong. Your first link , IBT confirms that Paul won 50% of the delegates in Iowa, Minnesota and Washington, NYT still only presents an estimate according to poll numbers. Most of the list in the NYT, delegates have not even been voted on. That's no tally, that's guesswork...