114,500 GRT cruise ship capsized in Italy

[Enigma]

I really don't believe that the cruise company doesn't keep track of the CC or any of its cruise ships. I'm quite sure that each ship has some sort of GPS tracking device so the company would know where each and every ship is at any time. I mean, when you invest hundreds of millions of dollars in cruise ships, wouldn't you want to know where they are at any given time even if you already know the route and schedule?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

This is the ship's course based on the navigation tracking data that some journalists have found and released. She was traveling at 8 knots, the black outline is the size of the ship. It's completely insane, unbelievable, I didn't believe it at first, I'm still not sure I believe it; I cannot believe anyone would intentionally navigate a ship through that, I wouldn't even feel comfortable taking my dad's old 48-foot ketch through that passage and someone took a 1,000-foot cruise liner through it. It's now being reported that divers have found a second 223-foot gash to starboard in addition to the 165-foot gash exposed to port, and that's why she ultimately capsized to starboard. The level of damage to the ship is almost unfathomable, it's more or less the equivalent of a controlled flight into terrain, except impossibly worse because this is a 2-dimensional mode of transport!

[Sea Skimmer]

That sucks, I was really hoping this would nail them harder than that given the level of poor choices made and that fact that they had another wreck not too far back. Having that level of insurance available really insulates a company from the effects of their shitty choices.

They had an accident earlier, in bad weather while docking, those things will happen. That's not really even on the same page the same as a wrecking, let alone wrecking in the most inept way ever. Companies like that simply could not exist without insurance; hell modern insurance got started in the shipping industry around 400 years ago. Nobody would build tall buildings or operate major oil refineries, or be a doctor in the west without a proportionally similar scale of insurance; its kind of integral to the economy. If you didn't have insurance for cases like this then the alternative could well be nobody can pay period. That isn't such an issue with a big company like this, but it would be for a lot of small cruise ship companies. Anyone who actually was at fault faces a long list of criminal charges in any case.

[Simon_Jester]

Is that chart labeled in meters or feet?

[Sea Skimmer]

Meters. Now that the liner has plowed the rocks out of the way that 200ft wide passage should be perfectly safe for the next voyage

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The middle of that channel is 10 meters deep but the port and starboard sides would have only been in 6 meters of water. The Costa Concordia draws 8.2 meters. It was physically impossible for her to make that passage without tearing open both port and starboard as the deeper area is too narrow, and absurdly unsafe besides.

[tim31]

What the fuck happened in the chain of command that no one called bullshit on that. Jesus christ! As Duchess expressed, I'm struggling to believe it.

[CJvR]

It's now being reported that divers have found a second 223-foot gash to starboard in addition to the 165-foot gash exposed to port...

That would explain why the ship sank quite convincingly, after that stunt there simply wasn't anyting left holding her afloat.

[CJvR]

The middle of that channel is 10 meters deep but the port and starboard sides would have only been in 6 meters of water. The Costa Concordia draws 8.2 meters. It was physically impossible for her to make that passage without tearing open both port and starboard as the deeper area is too narrow, and absurdly unsafe besides.

Well it is even worse than that since large ships moving in shallow waters tend to drop down even deeper than normal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_effect
Although I doubt it would matter much in this case.

[AniThyng]

I'm a bit confused, shouldn't the ship have sunk listing away from shore based on that course plot?

[AniThyng]

Ah, ok I saw the guardian link and it makes it clearer. I don't quite understand still, why did they do a 180 turn to get into the port rather than just going straight in?

[Broomstick]

The level of damage to the ship is almost unfathomable, it's more or less the equivalent of a controlled flight into terrain, except impossibly worse because this is a 2-dimensional mode of transport!

Well, yeah, if by "controlled flight into terrain" you mean "attempted to fly a B747 under a freeway overpass". If I interpret what you posted correctly, that's about the equivalent, right?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The level of damage to the ship is almost unfathomable, it's more or less the equivalent of a controlled flight into terrain, except impossibly worse because this is a 2-dimensional mode of transport!

Well, yeah, if by "controlled flight into terrain" you mean "attempted to fly a B747 under a freeway overpass". If I interpret what you posted correctly, that's about the equivalent, right?

Very close to it, yes.

[tim31]

Do you have a source on that chart? I cross posted to facebook and industry people are asking.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Do you have a source on that chart? I cross posted to facebook and industry people are asking.

http://gcaptain.com/forum/professional- ... pened.html

[The Duchess of Zeon]

That image was unattributed that I originally posted, but from that professional mariner's forum. They however found an attributed corroborating image:



From Gemitrafik.

[MKSheppard]

These photos of an AIS or ECDIS screen have emerged on several forums without any attribution:







Quite possibly it's the ship's AIS/ECDIS data run through a simulator to replay what happened.

[Janos]

Gemitrafik has put up some new maps on their facebook page and I think they are saying that their earlier maps are either wrong or unverified. Google Translate mangled the page pretty badly though, so is there somebody here that can read turkish and check that?

[Broomstick]

This video may be of some interest. A couple of things:

They interview someone with 30 years experience sailing and local knowledge. Among other things, he shows the rocks show on the charts the Duchess posted, and yes, if he tried to thread that needle he's a fucking idiot. They imply this hazard has been known since the Etruscans[/url], and charted for "decades, if not centuries".

They interview a few people who had been aboard that night, along with some phone footage. It gives a disturbing view of interior, with decks tilting and hordes of passengers in their lifevests ready to evacuate, ready to get in the lifeboats, but being turned back by the crew. Now, it's too easy to armchair quarterback, but it certainly looks like the passengers had a better grasp of the situation than the captain.

A couple of passengers stated that they thought the senior crew were incompetent and said the only crew that seemed to know what the hell to do or that were at all helpful were people like waiters, cooks, and housekeepers. It certainly gives the impression that the passengers are more responsible for the evacuation and high survival rate than the crew were.

It certainly paints a terrifying picture.

[LaCroix]

I doubt the newest plot maps. The facts of both sides being ripped open would fit the passage run version much better... If he had taken that 'new' course, he would only have had the gash on port, and would probably not have managed to turn over port and manage to get a gash on starboard hull while running on ground while beaching.

It might be, but the "threading" course would fit facts much better...

[Sidewinder]

I suspect people will demand the capital punishment be applied to the captain, for a clusterfuck of this proportion.

[CJvR]

I doubt the newest plot maps. The facts of both sides being ripped open would fit the passage run version much better... If he had taken that 'new' course, he would only have had the gash on port, and would probably not have managed to turn over port and manage to get a gash on starboard hull while running on ground while beaching.

Perhaps, but the starboard damage might have originated from after the first grounding. When they turned the ship around and headed for the bay they also passed shallow waters and could have ripped open that side then.

[LaCroix]

I doubt the newest plot maps. The facts of both sides being ripped open would fit the passage run version much better... If he had taken that 'new' course, he would only have had the gash on port, and would probably not have managed to turn over port and manage to get a gash on starboard hull while running on ground while beaching.

Perhaps, but the starboard damage might have originated from after the first grounding. When they turned the ship around and headed for the bay they also passed shallow waters and could have ripped open that side then.

Well, thinking again, it is quite possible that it happened like this:

1. Ran too close to the shore, hit rock with port side
2. Impact ripped side open, water intake
3. Rock got stuck in hull, while breaking it out of the bottom and breaking free, ship made a big jump, listed to starboard.
4. Water rushed to starboard, balancing ship so that it kept listing to starboard, and saving it from instantly sinking.
5. Thanking whatever deity he prefers, the person in charge beached the ship, causing the damage on starboard.

[ChaserGrey]

Apparently the Captain abandoned ship with over a hundred people left on board, and had to be repeatedly ordered by the Coast Guard to get back on: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/17/po ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Disgusting. Absolutely disgraceful. A Captain is responsible for the safety of his ship and all on board- there's a reason he is always the last to leave a sinking vessel by tradition. This is just...I have no words. If what's been reported about his conduct is accurate, he should be facing charges of manslaughter, negligent homicide, or whatever the Italian equivalent is.

As a side note, well done to the Italian Coast Guard, who seem to have kept their heads when all about them were losing theirs, in the global tradition of Coasties everywhere. Bravo Zulu, guys.

[ChaserGrey]

Ghetto edit: The transcript link I posted appears to be a longer and more complete version of what was posted upthread, nothing really new. My apologies, should have read the whole thread first.

Edit to edit: Apparently Italian law specifically makes it a crime for a Captain to leave his ship while there are still passengers on board, punishable by up to 12 years in prison. A most excellent law, in my humble opinion.