Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

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Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by PeZook »

NPR wrote:When it comes to the politics of school lunch programs, the easy part is agreeing that kids should be eating more fruits and vegetables.

The hard part? Determining what counts as a vegetable. Take, for instance, the tomato sauce on pizza. As part of new nutrition standards proposed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, schools would need to use about one-half cup of tomato paste on pizza in order for the sauce to count as a vegetable serving.

"A slice of pizza would literally be swimming in tomato paste," says Corey Henry of the American Frozen Food Institute. The group has lobbied Congress to change the provision. "No kid at school is going to eat a piece of pizza that's just drenched in tomato paste," he adds.


And lawmakers seem to agree. The House of Representatives' agriculture appropriations bill is out today, and it looks as if the bill will prevent the new rule on tomato paste from taking effect. It's a big score for the industry.

But advocates of stricter nutrition regulations say kids are the losers if the Pizza-As-A-Vegetable rule stays.

"It's a shame that Congress seems more interested in protecting industry than in protecting children's health," wrote Margo Wootan of the Center for Science in the Public Interest in a statement today.

"This [nutrition regulation proposed by Congress] may go down as the biggest nutritional blunder since Reagan tried to declare ketchup as a vegetable," Wootan tells The Salt. "It's ridiculous to call pizza a vegetable."

But she argues that pizza should be served with a vegetable. The nutrition standards, she argues, were intended to reinforce the 2010 Dietary Guidelines that say it's important for people to eat whole fruits and vegetables.

The AFFI's Corey Henry argues that even a little tomato paste on a slice of pizza packs in a lot of the nutrients kids need.

"Tomato paste is almost unique in its ability to provide a very significant amount of critical nutrients and vitamins," says Henry. And he argues that any comparison to the 1980s ketchup-as-a-vegetable controversy is just unfair.


"Not to disparage ketchup," says Henry, but "I'm not aware that ketchup has anywhere near the same ability to deliver vitamins."

It's not just the tomato sauce standard that lawmakers are rewriting. A provision meant to limit starchy vegetables, like french fries, also has had the potato lobbyists hard at work.

The House is expected to approve the measures when it votes on the agriculture appropriations bill later this week.
The short vesion is this: US public schools are forced by the federal government to follow certain nutritional standards. According to what the Department Of Agriculture propsed for the next spending bill, tomato paste could be considered a serving of vegetables, provided a certain (large) amount was present on the dish.

Producers of frozen pizza are fighting tooth and nail to get these amounts lowered, so that a serving of pizza with a smidgen of tomato paste would be considered a meain course and a serving of vegetables...ALL IN ONE.

And from what I heard just now on the radio, the bill got passed with these most reasonable and proper and not at all special interest serving additions in place!
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Akhlut »

It's entirely plausible to have a very healthy pizza served in school cafeterias; something like a traditional Neapolitan pizza or pizza Margherita on a whole wheat crust would be a very healthy dish.

Unfortunately, if my days in the US school system are any indication, the pizzas being served are covered under a mountain of high-fat cheese and the greasiest meats available to mankind.

Additionally, high-starch vegetables can be made in such a way as to be very healthy as well. Unfortunately, most of them are also laden in fat in school settings, because it's very easy to just chuck stuff into the deep fryer to feed hundreds or thousands of kids in a reasonable time frame.

So, while it'd be possible and, frankly, not too difficult to feed all these children both quickly and healthily, there's no political capital to do that right now. So, it looks like when my boy reaches schooling age, he's getting a packed lunch with him.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Isolder74 »

It's possible but not likely. Especially since any pizza served in a school cafeteria with usually be a frozen pizza similar in quality to Totino's or Tony's brands. If they used something like DiGiorno's they'd still not come out on top. What makes matter worse is many of those pre-made pizza include lots of extra sugar that is not really required to make the sauce and crust. The cheaper brands also tend to use low protein and low nutrition flour to boot(that is why it tastes like cardboard you know.)

Yes a pizza can be a full serving of vegetables and a complete meal but from my experience it has to be one I make myself where I put on the vegetables myself. I make the crust out of whole wheat just for good measure.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by weemadando »

This is why you are mocked America.

This is also why you need to control lobbying.

Because no one who isn't a special interest group pusher could say with a straight face that the pizza sauce on a slice of pizza constitutes a serve of vegetables.

But then again, this is from the same company that brought us the US version of the food pyramid which claims that starchy carbs such as bread and pasta should be the foundation of a healthy diet and eaten in greater quantities than fruits and vegetables combined.

So it's not like there isn't a history of lobby groups for both primary producers and food producers being despicable arseholes and playing with the health of a nation for profit.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Patroklos »

Nobody in their right mind would deny tomato paste based sauce on a pizza should count as a serving of vegetables as long as it met the serving size requirement. Tomato paste is pretty concentrated substance so it should take a smaller volume to qualify than other options.

The fact that the pizza may contain a full serving of vegetables is irrelevant to whether or not the whole pizza slice is a healthy or unhealthy choice. Vegetables do not bestow automatic healthy status.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Alerik the Fortunate »

Though the actual amount of tomato on an actually served slice of pizza is too small to even be counted as a serving of vegetable, irrespective of the net nutritional value of the pizza as a whole. This is just absurd.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Mr. Tickle »

The funny thing is the tomato is actually a fruit... go figure.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Keep in mind, only about 30% of the tomato paste used is actually tomato, the rest is a whole laundry-list of chemicals and addatives.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

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weemadando wrote: Because no one who isn't a special interest group pusher could say with a straight face that the pizza sauce on a slice of pizza constitutes a serve of vegetables.
I'm pretty sure 6-12 year olds across our great nation could argue with a strait face that Pizza should be a vegetable. I know I sure as hell could.

It will fit right in there with Green Beans, Lettuce, Pizza, Soybeans and Yams.
Yes it's quite possible to make most any food heathly, but school lunches are based off of how cheaply they can feed the student body with nutrition a very distant fifth or sixth in terms of priorities ahead of things like spoilage dates, ease of storage, time to prepare and presentation time.

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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by J »

Mr Bean wrote:
weemadando wrote:Because no one who isn't a special interest group pusher could say with a straight face that the pizza sauce on a slice of pizza constitutes a serve of vegetables.
I'm pretty sure 6-12 year olds across our great nation could argue with a strait face that Pizza should be a vegetable. I know I sure as hell could.
Actually I'd argue that pizza is a complete and wholesome meal as it contains items from all major food groups; fruits & vegetables are represented in the toppings & sauce, dairy is covered by cheese, the dough is made of grains, and unless it's a vegetarian pizza it has meat on it.
Therefore, pizza is a complete, wholesome, and balanced meal, and an essential part of every child's diet. :D
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by CaiusWickersham »

So long as the pizza isn't swimming in grease like a lot of commercial pizzas (and don't get me started on deep dish pizzas) and it still doesn't mean they should be fed pizza every single day.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Simon_Jester »

You could make a nutritious pizza that was like one-stop shopping for all your nutritional needs. But like a lot of nutritious foods, it wouldn't be optimized for cheap, easy, rapid preparation... which makes it something you're unlikely to see in a high school cafeteria given the way their budgeting works.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Gil Hamilton »

You can make a nutritious pizza, but this was lobbied in by people who make frozen "pizzas". When I was growing up, that meant a 4 x 6 grease fest with a rubbery cheese-like substance layered on top of a bread-like substrate, with burnt pepperoni cubes embedded in the surface.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

I used to love the cafeteria pizza, in all its' beige glory. I still have it sometimes, when I substitute teach at an elementary school. Its served every day now.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Alan Bolte »

I recall in elementary school they briefly tried adding little cubes of green bell pepper along with the pepperoni. The number of packed lunches on Pizza Thursdays skyrocketed immediately, and a week or two later the dreaded vegetables were gone.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by eion »

I have a memory of a cafeteria worker spraying something onto a pizza from a bottle more typical seen filled with window cleaner.

It was at that point I think I started packing my lunch from then on, which my mother was all for. I think the only thing I ever bought from then on were the occasional Otis Spunkmeyer cookie and a soda because I liked those cold.

Pizza can be healthy, just as broccoli can be unhealthy. It all depends how it's cooked and what it's made of.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

eion wrote:I have a memory of a cafeteria worker spraying something onto a pizza from a bottle more typical seen filled with window cleaner.

It was at that point I think I started packing my lunch from then on, which my mother was all for. I think the only thing I ever bought from then on were the occasional Otis Spunkmeyer cookie and a soda because I liked those cold.

Pizza can be healthy, just as broccoli can be unhealthy. It all depends how it's cooked and what it's made of.
Believe it or not, they sprayed the pizza with water to cool off the cheese and avoid burning the mouths of hundreds of children daily.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by eion »

That I would believe, but it left an impression nonetheless. Would have been nice if the bottle was labeled "Water" instead of just being a blank bottle. I guess waiting for the pizza to cool properly and not making it soggy by spraying it with water is just too long to wait when you're feeding hundreds of kids at a time.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Simon_Jester »

eion wrote:That I would believe, but it left an impression nonetheless. Would have been nice if the bottle was labeled "Water" instead of just being a blank bottle. I guess waiting for the pizza to cool properly and not making it soggy by spraying it with water is just too long to wait when you're feeding hundreds of kids at a time.
Especially if they all rush in during one lunch period (about 45 minutes) and all rush out at the end. You need all those meals ready within about the same thirty-minute time span.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by DudeGuyMan »

We need to start serving whole wheat vegan tofu health pizza in the schools. The kids will have a lot less fat in their diet given that they'll just throw that shit away.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

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DudeGuyMan wrote:We need to start serving whole wheat vegan tofu health pizza in the schools. The kids will have a lot less fat in their diet given that they'll just throw that shit away.
If the kids don't like what the school serves for lunch they can always do what I did and brown-bag it. In fact, studies have shown that American kids who eat school meals rather than brown-bagging are more likely to be obese, so even if all changing the school meal does is encourage more kids to bring lunch from then it could be a step in the right direction. At least then parents would be more likely to be involved in the meal selection process.

Schools should provide a healthy, affordable, and tasty meal for kids, nobody ever said that it would be something kids would want to eat right away. Given the option, most American kids would have pizza and ice-cream for every meal, but over time you can change minds. And given the option most kids wouldn't want to learn at least one of the subjects taught in school, but quite often children don't know what's in their long term interests, so that's why we make decisions for them.

Part of educating is teaching kids good habits, and that includes eating habits. After all, we teach kids to wash their hands and to say please and thank you, why shouldn't we teach them to strive for a varied and healthy diet. What people eat as kids they tend to continue eating as adults. In France, learning to enjoy a leisurely 5 course meal starts in preschool.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

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eion wrote:At least then parents would be more likely to be involved in the meal selection process.
What are the odds that they would just hand them a tenner and tell them to get their brown bag from McD or any other 'fryery' along the way to school?
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Most parents are going to do the thing that is the least effort for them if they are in charge of the food and kids are going to eat what tastes best, regardless of what it's like nutritionally.

That's why I love the free and proper school lunch in Finland.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

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LaCroix wrote:
eion wrote:At least then parents would be more likely to be involved in the meal selection process.
What are the odds that they would just hand them a tenner and tell them to get their brown bag from McD or any other 'fryery' along the way to school?
All depends where they live. A lot of schools don't let students leave campus during lunch, so they'd have to grab it along the way, and since a lot of kids take a bus they'd have to grab it before they get on the bus, which means their hot meal will be cold by lunch time. How many kids do you know that enjoy cold burgers and french fries? Some schools offer microwaves in their cafeterias now, but I still think the school lunch would win by default in this case.
His Divine Shadow wrote:That's why I love the free and proper school lunch in Finland.
That's what I'd prefer in the U.S. too, but sadly an À la carte charge is just one of the many things wrong with our school lunch program.
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Re: Proper meal composition now includes: Pizza

Post by Uraniun235 »

eion wrote:If the kids don't like what the school serves for lunch they can always do what I did and brown-bag it. In fact, studies have shown that American kids who eat school meals rather than brown-bagging are more likely to be obese, so even if all changing the school meal does is encourage more kids to bring lunch from then it could be a step in the right direction. At least then parents would be more likely to be involved in the meal selection process.
Another thing to keep in mind is that school meals represent a significant amount of food assistance in the US. If your household is at or under 130% of the poverty level, your kids can get breakfast and lunch for free. Up to 180%, those meals can cost the student's family a maximum of 40 cents each. If your kids eat breakfast and lunch at school every school day, that's something like 4 out of 9 of their meals in a month while school is in session. That's a substantial savings for a family, one that poor people are likely to take advantage of... and we also hear that poor people in America are more likely to be fat.

Basically, there are kids who don't have the option to brown-bag it, because it literally costs more for them to do so than it would for them to eat the school lunch. That's why it's vital that school meals be healthy.
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