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CaptainChewbacca wrote:Whats gonna happen in Oakland if there's full-blown riots then?weemadando wrote:There's been chatter about Oakland PD having a lot of officers either go AWOL or give their 2 weeks notice today.
Yet to see any actual confirmation of it though.
"The war has begun."Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:The war has begun.
Marine Corps Vet shot in the face by the Oakland PD with a rubber bullet. Remember, those things kill too, and a headshot is by definition a shot to kill.
In any case, chatter coming from same folks about a Cali National Guard mobilisation.Flagg wrote:CaptainChewbacca wrote:Whats gonna happen in Oakland if there's full-blown riots then?weemadando wrote:There's been chatter about Oakland PD having a lot of officers either go AWOL or give their 2 weeks notice today.
Yet to see any actual confirmation of it though.
There won't be unless there are cops there to start them.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
- PeZook 
Honestly? When was the last time anything of matter changed in America without civil disorder and blood in the streets?The Romulan Republic wrote:Melodrama aside, doesn't it bother anyone besides me how eager some of us seem to be to see the world descend into civil disorder and blood in the streets?
And the flashbang that went off right next to his head (that the Oakland Police outright lied about) as other protesters attempted to render aid happened to be a coincidence as well?CaptainChewbacca wrote:You can't really teargas someone in the face deliberately, unless its extremely close range. The guy who got hit was just unlucky, riot police just try to get the smoke to where it will do the most good, there's no way you could aim it well enough to hit someone in the face.
Go to the 0:25-0:30 mark.CaptainChewbacca wrote:I can't see clearly in the video where the flash bang went off, but the situation looks way too chaotic for them to be targeting specific people, and if they were why would they throw a flash-bang at a man who's lying down and not moving?
Alameda County Sheriff's Office and neighboring cities will loan Oakland officers to be used in riot control duties.CaptainChewbacca wrote:Whats gonna happen in Oakland if there's full-blown riots then?weemadando wrote:There's been chatter about Oakland PD having a lot of officers either go AWOL or give their 2 weeks notice today.
Yet to see any actual confirmation of it though.
I thought Governor Brown was elected back in 2010? Though he could be worried about the national elections.CaptainChewbacca wrote:California is generally very reluctant to use its' national guard against its' citizens, I think the last time it did it was 1991. This time there's an election coming up, our Governor may be worried about losing votes.
This is attempted murder. That police officer needs to be arrested and sent to The Hague.General Schatten wrote:
You can see that Scott Olsen is laying on the fucking ground collapsed and unresponsive with nothing to obstruct the police's view of him, the protesters move back in when they see he's been downed, at the 0:40 mark you can see them fire a flashbang off right next to him as the protesters attempt to move him to get medical help. He was maybe ten feet away from the barricade, in full view of the police, collapsed on the ground, that was not unintentional.
Why the Hague?Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:This is attempted murder. That police officer needs to be arrested and sent to The Hague.
Then again, I don't want the concept of jurisdiction casually overridden whenever a criminal we don't like shows up. "He'll get off too easy for the crime in this court, try him in THAT court!" is a kind of argument that cuts both ways.Flagg wrote:Considering the state of California's rate of convictions against rotten and murdering cops, I'd rather see them sent to the Hague.
Injured vet spent day at work, nights at protest
By TERRY COLLINS and JASON DEAREN, AP
22 minutes ago
OAKLAND, Calif. — The Iraq War veteran injured in clashes between police and anti-Wall Street protesters felt so strongly about economic inequality that he wanted to do something to change it, his roommate said Thursday.
Scott Olsen, 24, joined the protests as he worked his day job as a network engineer and left his apartment each night to sleep alongside protesters in San Francisco and Oakland, Calif., Keith Shannon said.
Olsen apparently suffered a fractured skull Tuesday during the clashes.
It's not known exactly what type of object struck Olsen or where or from whom it came from. The group Iraq Veterans Against the War said officers were responsible for his injury.
Oakland police Chief Howard Jordan said officials will investigate whether officers used excessive force.
Olsen has become a rallying cry, with demonstrators in New York City marching in support of their counterparts in Oakland and a movement website declaring: "We are all Scott Olsen."
In Las Vegas, a few dozen protesters held a vigil for Olsen, carrying glow sticks and projecting a photo of him on a wall. A handful of police officers attended, and protesters invited them back for a potluck Thursday night.
"We renewed our vow of non-violence," organizer Sebring Frehner said.
Another round of vigils was being organized Thursday.
Elsewhere, officials took steps to close some of the camps.
In Nashville, Tenn., they imposed a curfew, saying conditions at a camp at the state Capitol complex were worsening. In Providence, R.I., officials notified protesters that they were violating multiple city laws by camping overnight at a park.
Olsen, who is originally from Onalaska, Wis., served two tours of duty in Iraq, makes a good living at a San Francisco software company and had a hillside apartment in a suburb that overlooks San Francisco Bay.
And yet, Shannon said, Olsen felt strongly about the wealth disparity between the rich and everyone else.
"He felt you shouldn't wait until something is affecting you to get out and do something about it," said Shannon, who served in Iraq with Olsen.
Shannon said his roommate felt the anti-Wall Street movement had a chance to create real change.
So each night, he would go out to the tent camps that have sprung up over the past month in cities as the movement spread to protest economic inequality and what they see as corporate greed.
Shannon said Olsen usually called with his whereabouts.
On Tuesday night, Olsen had planned to be in San Francisco, but changed course after his veteran's group decided to go to Oakland to support the protesters there after police cleared an encampment outside city hall.
"I think it was a last minute thing," he said. "He didn't think about it."
Joshua Shepherd, 27, a Navy veteran who was standing nearby when Olsen got struck, said he didn't know what hit him. "It was like a war zone," he said.
Then there was a scramble and he couldn't clearly see the rush of folks who went to Olsen's aid.
A video posted on YouTube showed Olsen being carried by other protesters through the tear gas, his face bloodied. People shout at him: "What's your name? What's your name?" Olsen, however, just stares back.
Shepherd said it's a cruel irony that Olsen is fighting for his life in the country that he fought to protect.
"He was over there protecting the rights and freedoms of America and he comes home, exercises his "freedoms" and, it's here, where he's nearly fatally wounded," Shepherd said.
A hospital spokesman said Olsen was upgraded to fair condition and moved into an intensive care unit on Thursday. His uncle said his parents were flying in from Wisconsin to be with him.
"His mother, this is obviously a heartbreaker to her," George Nygaard, a Marine veteran, said from Wisconsin. "I don't think she understands why he was doing this."
People at OPSWAT, the San Francisco security software company where Olsen works, were devastated after learning of his injuries. They described him as a humble, quiet guy who worked hard over long hours.
"He's been a big piece of what we do here and our growth strategy, so obviously it's pretty devastating for us that he's in the shape he's in," said Jeff Garon, the company's director of marketing.
Olsen had been helping to develop security applications for U.S. defense agencies, building on expertise gained while on active duty in Iraq, Garon said.
Olsen was awarded seven medals while serving in the U.S. Marine Corps, which he left as a lance corporal in November 2009 after serving for four years. One of them was the Navy-Marine Corps Achievement Medal.
Olsen moved to the Bay Area in July, and quickly found friends in the veterans against the war group.
The lanky man with a dry sense of humor and sarcastic wit did not show a lot of interest in politics as a teen — he has two tattoos for the group "Insane Clown Posse" on his upper arms, Shannon said.
His tours of duty in Iraq made him more serious, Shannon said.
"He wasn't active in politics before he went in the military, but he became active once he was out ... the experience in the military definitely shaped him," Shannon said.
___
Associated Press writers Dinesh Ramde in Milwaukee, Garance Burke in San Francisco, Julie Watson in San Diego Lucas L. Johnson II in Nasvhille, Tenn., and Michelle Rindels in Las Vegas contributed to this report. Dearen reported from San Francisco.
There are no reasons or protocols with tear gas where a persons body is a target area. Accidents do happen during these demonstrations though so hopefully that incident was accidental. As for the video involving the flash bangs, the officers who threw those flash bangs should be prosecuted. I hate to disappoint Einhander though, but charging them with attempted murder is an unrealistic goal and probably does not fit the facts that can be proven in court.Shroom Man 777 wrote:I hope some member here with police experience can explain to those who are so shocked and surprised by this the actual reasons and protocols involved in tear gas canistering someone in the face and maybe flash banging people gathering around that protester to try and help him (in perpetuating further acts of civil disobedience no doubt!). The police was there to serve and protect the people, and did so with utter professionalism and care to ensure that no harm comes to those people they have sworn to defend. God bless America.
How does one measure that? If someone is found not guilty in a court of law what basis do you, a person on the outside with practically no access to actual evidence, make that conclusion? Out of curiosity have you compiled some figures? Do I have to remind you that regular citizen criminals are found innocent all the time?Flagg wrote: Considering the state of California's rate of convictions against rotten and murdering cops, I'd rather see them sent to the Hague.
If they're innocent I'm sure the ICC will give them a fair hearing.Kamakazie Sith wrote:How does one measure that? If someone is found not guilty in a court of law what basis do you, a person on the outside with practically no access to actual evidence, make that conclusion? Out of curiosity have you compiled some figures? Do I have to remind you that regular citizen criminals are found innocent all the time?Flagg wrote: Considering the state of California's rate of convictions against rotten and murdering cops, I'd rather see them sent to the Hague.
I'm sure they would. Doing so would also be a violation of their rights as American citizens accused of a domestic crime. I'm always amazed how civil rights are suddenly throw out the window by citizens when it isn't them being prosecuted.Flagg wrote:If they're innocent I'm sure the ICC will give them a fair hearing.Kamakazie Sith wrote:How does one measure that? If someone is found not guilty in a court of law what basis do you, a person on the outside with practically no access to actual evidence, make that conclusion? Out of curiosity have you compiled some figures? Do I have to remind you that regular citizen criminals are found innocent all the time?Flagg wrote: Considering the state of California's rate of convictions against rotten and murdering cops, I'd rather see them sent to the Hague.
