BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

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BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Xisiqomelir »

The scam here seems to be: "let's move the $X trillions in CDS which will blow up in our faces to the retail arm". The idea being that the FDIC insures the $1T in deposits at retail.

Then, because the bankruptcy laws were changed in 2005 to make derivatives counterparties first in line for recovery (even over bondholders!), they can feast on the $1T deposits if (when?) the BK comes.

Then, the FDIC can come in and backstop the poor screwed-over depositors. "Sorry for stealing your money, good thing taxpayers exist, eh?"

This story is only coming out because someone (probably at the FDIC) is whistle-blowing to Bloomberg. I thank that anonymous someone. This is also why there is a ? in the thread title, though I've seen internet estimates of ~$50T in total notional risk.

Original B-berg Story:
BofA Said to Split Regulators Over Moving Merrill Derivatives to Bank Unit
By Bob Ivry, Hugh Son and Christine Harper - Oct 18, 2011
Bank of America Corp. (BAC), hit by a credit downgrade last month, has moved derivatives from its Merrill Lynch unit to a subsidiary flush with insured deposits, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

The Federal Reserve and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. disagree over the transfers, which are being requested by counterparties, said the people, who asked to remain anonymous because they weren’t authorized to speak publicly. The Fed has signaled that it favors moving the derivatives to give relief to the bank holding company, while the FDIC, which would have to pay off depositors in the event of a bank failure, is objecting, said the people. The bank doesn’t believe regulatory approval is needed, said people with knowledge of its position.

Three years after taxpayers rescued some of the biggest U.S. lenders, regulators are grappling with how to protect FDIC- insured bank accounts from risks generated by investment-banking operations. Bank of America, which got a $45 billion bailout during the financial crisis, had $1.04 trillion in deposits as of midyear, ranking it second among U.S. firms.

“The concern is that there is always an enormous temptation to dump the losers on the insured institution,” said William Black, professor of economics and law at the University of Missouri-Kansas City and a former bank regulator. “We should have fairly tight restrictions on that.”

Accommodating Clients

Jerry Dubrowski, a spokesman for Charlotte, North Carolina- based Bank of America, declined to comment on the transfers or the firm’s discussions with regulators. The company “continues to accommodate the needs of our clients through each of our multiple trading entities, including Bank of America NA,” he said in an e-mailed statement, referring to the company’s deposit-taking unit.

Barbara Hagenbaugh, a Fed spokeswoman, said she couldn’t discuss supervision of specific institutions. Greg Hernandez, an FDIC spokesman, declined to comment.

Bank of America posted a $6.2 billion third-quarter profit today, compared with a loss of $7.3 billion a year earlier, as credit quality improved and the firm booked one-time accounting gains. The lender rose 7.3 percent to $6.47 at 1:54 p.m. in New York trading, making it the day’s best performer in the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Credit-default swaps on Bank of America eased 10 basis points to a mid-price of 380 as of 11:49 a.m. in New York, according to broker Phoenix Partners Group.

Moody’s Investors Service downgraded Bank of America’s long-term credit ratings Sept. 21, cutting both the holding company and the retail bank two notches apiece. The holding company fell to Baa1, the third-lowest investment-grade rank, from A2, while the retail bank declined to A2 from Aa3.

Moody’s Downgrade

The Moody’s downgrade spurred some of Merrill’s partners to ask that contracts be moved to the retail unit, which has a higher credit rating, according to people familiar with the transactions. Transferring derivatives also can help the parent company minimize the collateral it must post on contracts and the potential costs to terminate trades after Moody’s decision, said a person familiar with the matter.

Bank of America estimated in an August regulatory filing that a two-level downgrade by all ratings companies would have required that it post $3.3 billion in additional collateral and termination payments, based on over-the-counter derivatives and other trading agreements as of June 30. The figure doesn’t include possible collateral payments due to “variable interest entities,” which the firm is evaluating, it said in the filing.

Dubrowski declined to comment on collateral or termination payments after the downgrade.

‘Be Prepared’

Bank of America’s rating is now four grades below the one Moody’s assigned to JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), the biggest U.S. bank by deposits at midyear, and a level below the rating given to Citigroup Inc. (C), the third-biggest. Bank of America is the only U.S. lender that lacks a rating of A3 or higher among the five firms listed by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency as having the biggest derivatives books.

“We had worked very hard over the course of the last nine months to be prepared to the extent that we did receive a downgrade, and feel very good about the way that we’ve minimized the potential impact” Bank of America Chief Financial Officer Bruce Thompson said in a conference call today with analysts. “Since the downgrade, we have not seen any change in our global excess liquidity sources.”

Derivatives are financial instruments used to hedge risks or for speculation. They’re derived from stocks, bonds, loans, currencies and commodities, or linked to specific events such as changes in the weather or interest rates.

Dodd-Frank Rules

Keeping such deals separate from FDIC-insured savings has been a cornerstone of U.S. regulation for decades, including last year’s Dodd-Frank overhaul of Wall Street regulation.

The legislation gave the FDIC, which liquidates failing banks, expanded powers to dismantle large financial institutions in danger of failing. The agency can borrow from the Treasury Department to finance the biggest lenders’ operations to stem bank runs. It’s required to recoup taxpayer money used during the resolution process through fees on the largest firms.

Bank of America benefited from two injections of U.S. bailout funds during the financial crisis. The first, in 2008, included $15 billion for the bank and $10 billion for Merrill, which the bank had agreed to buy. The second round of $20 billion came in January 2009 after Merrill’s losses in its final quarter as an independent firm surpassed $15 billion, raising doubts about the bank’s stability if the takeover proceeded. The U.S. also offered to guarantee $118 billion of assets held by the combined company, mostly at Merrill. The company repaid federal bailout funds in 2009 with interest.

‘The Normal Course’

Bank of America’s holding company -- the parent of both the retail bank and the Merrill Lynch securities unit -- held almost $75 trillion of derivatives at the end of June, according to data compiled by the OCC. About $53 trillion, or 71 percent, were within Bank of America NA, according to the data, which represent the notional values of the trades.

That compares with JPMorgan’s deposit-taking entity, JPMorgan Chase Bank NA, which contained 99 percent of the New York-based firm’s $79 trillion of notional derivatives, the OCC data show.

The moves by Bank of America are part of “the normal course of dealings that we’ve had with counterparties since Merrill Lynch and BofA came together,” Thompson said today.

‘Created a Firewall’

Moving derivatives contracts between units of a bank holding company is limited under Section 23A of the Federal Reserve Act, which is designed to prevent a lender’s affiliates from benefiting from its federal subsidy and to protect the bank from excessive risk originating at the non-bank affiliate, said Saule T. Omarova, a law professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Law.

“Congress doesn’t want a bank’s FDIC insurance and access to the Fed discount window to somehow benefit an affiliate, so they created a firewall,” Omarova said. The discount window has been open to banks as the lender of last resort since 1914.

As a general rule, as long as transactions involve high- quality assets and don’t exceed certain quantitative limitations, they should be allowed under the Federal Reserve Act, Omarova said.

In 2009, the Fed granted Section 23A exemptions to the banking arms of Ally Financial Inc., HSBC Holdings Plc, Fifth Third Bancorp, ING Groep NV, General Electric Co., Northern Trust Corp., CIT Group Inc., Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., among others, according to letters posted on the Fed’s website.

The central bank terminated exemptions last year for retail-banking units of JPMorgan, Citigroup, Barclays Plc, Royal Bank of Scotland Plc and Deutsche Bank AG. The Fed also ended an exemption for Bank of America in March 2010 and in September of that year approved a new one.

Section 23A “is among the most important tools that U.S. bank regulators have to protect the safety and soundness of U.S. banks,” Scott Alvarez, the Fed’s general counsel, told Congress in March 2008.

To contact the reporters on this story: Bob Ivry in New York at bivry@bloomberg.net; Hugh Son in New York at hson1@bloomberg.net; Christine Harper in New York at charper@bloomberg.net.

To contact the editors responsible for this story: Gary Putka at gputka@bloomberg.net; David Scheer at dscheer@bloomberg.net.
Jonathan Weill editorial
Bank of America Bosses Find Friend in the Fed: Jonathan Weil
October 19, 2011, 8:22 PM EDT

By Jonathan Weil

Oct. 20 (Bloomberg) -- One of the reasons so many Americans are ticked off at the Federal Reserve is a lingering sense that it puts big banks’ interests above those of ordinary taxpayers. The news that the Fed is taking Bank of America Corp.’s side in a dispute over where to park some of the company’s holdings only reinforces that impression.

Here’s the gist of the story, broken two days ago by Bloomberg News. Bank of America, which got hit with a credit- rating downgrade last month by Moody’s Investors Service, has moved an undisclosed amount of derivative financial instruments from its Merrill Lynch unit to its biggest commercial-banking subsidiary. The latter is loaded with insured deposits and has a higher credit rating than Merrill or the parent company.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. is objecting to the transfers. That part is easy to understand: More risk for the retail lender means more risk for FDIC-insured deposits, which ultimately are backstopped by the U.S. government.

The Fed, however, has signaled to the FDIC that it favors the transfers. Shifting the derivatives to the commercial lender may let Bank of America avoid collateral calls and termination fees stemming from the rating downgrade. Some Merrill clients may prefer having their contracts with the higher-rated unit. In short, the Fed’s priorities seem to lie with protecting the bank-holding company from losses at Merrill, even if that means greater risks for the FDIC’s insurance fund.

Pushing an Agenda

Among the big questions we’re left with: Why is the Fed going to bat for Bank of America in the first place? If the FDIC doesn’t want its insurance fund exposed to potential losses from these investment-banking trades, why expose it? And how many other banks have managed to get the Fed to push their agenda in the same sort of way?

Unfortunately, none of the actors here went on the record to explain what’s going on. We don’t know what kinds of derivatives these are, or even the dollars at stake, only that they are big enough to make the FDIC upset. The entire story would be playing out in secret were it not for some unidentified whistleblowers who seem to have this crazy idea that the public should be informed about what the regulators and Bank of America are up to.

It’s not as if the FDIC’s deposit-insurance fund is flush with cash. It finally turned positive last June, when it finished with $3.9 billion of net assets, after seven consecutive quarters of negative balances. A surprise failure by even one community bank could easily wipe out that tiny surplus.

Capital Doubts

It’s also clear that the market harbors serious doubts about whether Bank of America has enough capital. Its shares trade for less than a third of the company’s common shareholder equity. Transferring the derivatives to the commercial-lending unit, where most of Bank of America’s derivatives are kept already, would let the holding company avoid a capital hit. For all we know, though, the derivative contracts Merrill wrote are far more exotic.

Keep in mind: Merrill and Bank of America each needed two rounds of federal bailout money, back in 2008 and 2009. As for whether taxpayers are still on the hook now, sure, we’ve been told the Dodd-Frank Act passed by Congress last year would end federal bailouts of large banks. It doesn’t exactly do that, though. Taxpayer money still would be at risk in the event that the FDIC has to exercise its new resolution powers.

Dodd-Frank lets the FDIC borrow money from the Treasury to finance a seized company’s operations for as long as five years. While the law says the FDIC is supposed to tap the banking industry to pay for any eventual losses, it’s hard to imagine the agency could ever charge enough to cover the costs from a failure at a company with $2.2 trillion of assets, or any other giant financial institution, for that matter. Plus, there’s always the chance Congress will change the law again.

If neither the regulators nor Bank of America will explain what’s going on here, the only hope may be for Congress to start asking its own questions. Perhaps then we might find out why the Fed seems to believe it’s a good idea to let a huge bank-holding company avoid a blow to its capital by shifting more of its trading risks onto the retail crowd. Taxpayers deserve to know.

(Jonathan Weil is a Bloomberg View columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.)

--Editors: James Greiff, David Henry.

To contact the writer of this column: Jonathan Weil in New York at jweil6@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this column: James Greiff at jgreiff@bloomberg.net
Yves Smith editorial
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2011
Bank of America Deathwatch: Moves Risky Derivatives from Holding Company to Taxpayer-Backstopped Depository
If you have any doubt that Bank of America is in trouble, this development should settle it. I’m late to this important story broken this morning by Bob Ivry of Bloomberg, but both Bill Black (who I interviewed just now) and I see this as a desperate (or at the very best, remarkably inept) move by Bank of America’s management.

The short form via Bloomberg:

Bank of America Corp. (BAC), hit by a credit downgrade last month, has moved derivatives from its Merrill Lynch unit to a subsidiary flush with insured deposits, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation…

Bank of America’s holding company — the parent of both the retail bank and the Merrill Lynch securities unit — held almost $75 trillion of derivatives at the end of June, according to data compiled by the OCC. About $53 trillion, or 71 percent, were within Bank of America NA, according to the data, which represent the notional values of the trades.

That compares with JPMorgan’s deposit-taking entity, JPMorgan Chase Bank NA, which contained 99 percent of the New York-based firm’s $79 trillion of notional derivatives, the OCC data show.

Now you would expect this move to be driven by adverse selection, that it, that BofA would move its WORST derivatives, that is, the ones that were riskiest or otherwise had high collateral posting requirements, to the sub. Bill Black confirmed that even though the details were sketchy, this is precisely what took place.

And remember, as we have indicated, there are some “derivatives” that should be eliminated, period. We’ve written repeatedly about credit default swaps, which have virtually no legitimate economic uses (no one was complaining about the illiquidity of corporate bonds prior to the introduction of CDS; this was not a perceived need among investors). They are an inherently defective product, since there is no way to margin adequately for “jump to default” risk and have the product be viable economically. CDS are systematically underpriced insurance, with insurers guaranteed to go bust periodically, as AIG and the monolines demonstrated.

The reason that commentators like Chris Whalen were relatively sanguine about Bank of America likely becoming insolvent as a result of eventual mortgage and other litigation losses is that it would be a holding company bankruptcy. The operating units, most importantly, the banks, would not be affected and could be spun out to a new entity or sold. Shareholders would be wiped out and holding company creditors (most important, bondholders) would take a hit by having their debt haircut and partly converted to equity.

This changes the picture completely. This move reflects either criminal incompetence or abject corruption by the Fed. Even though I’ve expressed my doubts as to whether Dodd Frank resolutions will work, dumping derivatives into depositaries pretty much guarantees a Dodd Frank resolution will fail. Remember the effect of the 2005 bankruptcy law revisions: derivatives counterparties are first in line, they get to grab assets first and leave everyone else to scramble for crumbs. So this move amounts to a direct transfer from derivatives counterparties of Merrill to the taxpayer, via the FDIC, which would have to make depositors whole after derivatives counterparties grabbed collateral. It’s well nigh impossible to have an orderly wind down in this scenario. You have a derivatives counterparty land grab and an abrupt insolvency. Lehman failed over a weekend after JP Morgan grabbed collateral.

But it’s even worse than that. During the savings & loan crisis, the FDIC did not have enough in deposit insurance receipts to pay for the Resolution Trust Corporation wind-down vehicle. It had to get more funding from Congress. This move paves the way for another TARP-style shakedown of taxpayers, this time to save depositors. No Congressman would dare vote against that. This move is Machiavellian, and just plain evil.

The FDIC is understandably ripshit. Again from Bloomberg:

The Federal Reserve and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. disagree over the transfers, which are being requested by counterparties, said the people, who asked to remain anonymous because they weren’t authorized to speak publicly. The Fed has signaled that it favors moving the derivatives to give relief to the bank holding company, while the FDIC, which would have to pay off depositors in the event of a bank failure, is objecting, said the people. The bank doesn’t believe regulatory approval is needed, said people with knowledge of its position.

Well OF COURSE BofA is gonna try to take the position this is kosher, but the FDIC can and must reject this brazen move. But this is a bit of a fait accompli,and I have no doubt BofA and the craven Fed will argue that moving the risker derivatives back will upset the markets. Well too bad, maybe it’s time banks learn they can no longer run roughshod over regulators. And if BofA is at that much risk that it can’t afford to undo moving over unacceptably risky exposures measure, that would seem to be prima facie evidence that a Dodd Frank resolution is in order.

Bill Black said that the Bloomberg editors toned down his remarks considerably. He said, “Any competent regulator would respond: “No, Hell NO!” It’s time that the public also say no, and loudly, to yet another route for running a drip feed from taxpayers to banksters.

Update: Brett in comments raise the question that since JP Morgan books virtually all of its derivatives in a depositary, is this really all that sus?

The short answer is that while this on paper looks similar, in fact the JPM derivatives exposures (and those of the other big banks) are pretty different than those of Merrill. The big commercial banks traditionally were the big players in plain vanilla, low margin derivatives, specifically interest rate and FX swaps. They are ALSO in credit default swaps, so there is no denying that there are risky derivatives included in the mix.

JPM runs a massive derivatives clearing operation, and a lot of its exposure relates to that. This and the businesses of the other large banks have been supervised by the regulators for some time (you can argue the supervision was not so hot, but at least they have a dim idea of what is going on and gather data). By contrast, no one was supervising the derivatives book at Merrill. The Fed long ago gave up supervising Treasury dealers, and the SEC does not do any meaningful oversight of derivatives. And Chris Whalen confirms that Merrill was and is the cowboy among derivatives dealers.

You can argue that this is just normal business, the other big banks have their derivatives operations largely in the depositary. But BofA has owned Merrill for over a year and a half, and didn’t undertake this move until it was downgraded. Goldman and Morgan Stanley reamin big players in this business and don’t have a large depositary. If this was all normal business, BofA would have done this a while ago, and not in response to market pressure, and they would have gotten the FDIC on board. The way this was done says something is amiss.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Gramm-Leach-Bliley is the gift that keeps on giving. Disgusting.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Sriad »

Sometimes the bald-faced fuckery in the financial industry is too absurd to believe... let me make sure I've got this straight.

1: Merrill Lynch has a bunch of assets that are going to shit.
2: If they do, B of A has to eat it.
3: But B of A is shifting them internally, moving good money out of their Federally Insured banks, trading them for the on-paper "value" of the risky assets.
4: They expect (want) those banks to fail, and for us to eat the cost of their shit assets.
5: Those unbelievable cunts.

(6: The Federal Reserve is ok with this,
7: Making them also unbelievable cunts.)

Have I more or less understood what's going on here?
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Alerik the Fortunate »

I think that you've summed it correctly. Considering what B of A has tried to pull with our mortgage, it doesn't really surprise me that they would try something this brazen on such a large scale. The Fed has shown themselves to be mere puppets in allowing the largest investment banks to legitimize their extortion of the U.S. government into a perpetual trust fund to cover the cost of their personal decisions. Either as a socialist or sincere capitalist, you have to be appalled by the childish sense of entitlement and sneaky dealings they use to ensure they never have to face the least consequence for what they inflict on others.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Xisiqomelir »

Sriad wrote:Sometimes the bald-faced fuckery in the financial industry is too absurd to believe... let me make sure I've got this straight.

1: Merrill Lynch has a bunch of assets that are going to shit.
2: If they do, B of A has to eat it.
3: But B of A is shifting them internally, moving good money out of their Federally Insured banks, trading them for the on-paper "value" of the risky assets.
4: They expect (want) those banks to fail, and for us to eat the cost of their shit assets.
5: Those unbelievable cunts.

(6: The Federal Reserve is ok with this,
7: Making them also unbelievable cunts.)

Have I more or less understood what's going on here?
There's a little bit of a finagle between points 3 and 4, in that the depositor money remains where it is, the toxic waste goes into the same branch, the whole thing collapses, people they owe money to will simply take BofA depositor money, and the the FDIC (every American taxpayer) will then have to make whole the depositors who got ripped off.

Essentially, spot-on, sir.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by J »

If you're a Bank of America customer, now would be a very good time to show your displeasure and take your money elsewhere. Like your local credit union.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Chardok »

This smells a lot like WaMu...
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by J »

Yeah...they're getting there...though they've yet to begin paying dividends from their capitalized interest account...

There's two things which will bankrupt BofA, their derivatives and the incredibly shoddy mortgages & loans they inherited from the Countrywide buyout. It's hard to say which one will get them first, it seems like derivatives is taking an early lead...
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

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J wrote:If you're a Bank of America customer, now would be a very good time to show your displeasure and take your money elsewhere. Like your local credit union.
Fucked credit prevents me from doing that.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Aniron wrote:
J wrote:If you're a Bank of America customer, now would be a very good time to show your displeasure and take your money elsewhere. Like your local credit union.
Fucked credit prevents me from doing that.
Credit unions are generally pretty lenient in their account opening requirements. So long as you don't have a attachment levy, or history of suspected check fraud they'll generally let you open an account. Remember they were originally designed to serve those who couldn't get an account at a commercial bank.
that said, it has been my professional experience that BAC is very loose in their standards for flagging a depositor for suspected fraud.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Count Chocula »

Bond holders getting fucked without lube? Seems like BofA has a friend in the US government. Hello General Motors and Chrysler! Especially GM. If the Fed lets this pass, I'll give the OWS protestors a lot more credibility if they latch on to this as an action item.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Aniron »

Count Chocula wrote:Bond holders getting fucked without lube? Seems like BofA has a friend in the US government. Hello General Motors and Chrysler! Especially GM. If the Fed lets this pass, I'll give the OWS protestors a lot more credibility if they latch on to this as an action item.
They already have credibility. Pull your cigarettes out of your ears and listen to what they say.

Thanks for the info, Col. Crackpot.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Count Chocula »

Yeah, fuck off youngling. Let me clarify it for you in as many short words as I can: if BofA gets away with this the OWS folks will have one clear plank of a political platform if they care to develop one. Specific justified points of contention = credibility. Ironically the Tea Party folks might agree with them. ZOMG Fuck The Rich /= credibility. Clear enough, pup?
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Simon_Jester »

Many among Occupy Wall Street are already pointing to things like this that have been happening for years. The entire reason they want to occupy Wall Street in the first place is because they hold Wall Street responsible for the current depression, and they don't think Wall Street is being held accountable for its actions, and instead is being cushioned from the consequences of those actions at the expense of taxpayers who are already hard pressed to deal with the depression Wall Street created.

Bank of America doing something like this to screw the taxpayer and the account holder over for their own gain will not give Occupy Wall Street a new platform. At most, it will reinforce the platform they already had, let them say "See? That's the kind of shit I'm talking about!"
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Count Chocula »

Simon, I can't and won't disagree with you, I believe my posts on the whole bailout issue will bear that out. I'm cross-threading here, but I can't help it; the Tea Party's genesis was in part a response to the shit that happened in 2005-2007 and really went pear-shaped in 2008, namely the Wall Street debacles. The more articulate OWS protesters seem to understand this, but while the Tea Party understood and took action and eventually organized a coherent message, the OWS folks have not. I'd love to see a common beliefs contrast and comparison between the Occupy Some City For The Fuck of It folks and the Tea Party folks, because I think they have more in common than either side realizes.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by J »

Aniron wrote:Fucked credit prevents me from doing that.
The Bank of Sealy is always accepting new deposits...
Count Chocula wrote:the Tea Party's genesis was in part a response to the shit that happened in 2005-2007 and really went pear-shaped in 2008, namely the Wall Street debacles. The more articulate OWS protesters seem to understand this, but while the Tea Party understood and took action and eventually organized a coherent message, the OWS folks have not.
They're working on it
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Simon_Jester »

Count Chocula wrote:Simon, I can't and won't disagree with you, I believe my posts on the whole bailout issue will bear that out. I'm cross-threading here, but I can't help it; the Tea Party's genesis was in part a response to the shit that happened in 2005-2007 and really went pear-shaped in 2008, namely the Wall Street debacles. The more articulate OWS protesters seem to understand this, but while the Tea Party understood and took action and eventually organized a coherent message, the OWS folks have not. I'd love to see a common beliefs contrast and comparison between the Occupy Some City For The Fuck of It folks and the Tea Party folks, because I think they have more in common than either side realizes.
I wouldn't be surprised- the problem is that the anti-corporatist movement within the Tea Party has been infiltrated and to a large extent taken over by corporatist Republicans of the Koch type. Tea Party anger got redirected from Wall Street towards various elements of "Main Street," which causes all kinds of trouble and ultimately makes it easier for the real villains to sneak away in the confusion.

And I repeat, Occupy Wall Street has only existed as a mass movement for about a month. Give them time; you don't know what they are until they've had a chance to become it.
I can't say I agree with everything on the 'recommended content' list, but then, I can't be expected to agree with absolutely everything that represents a weighted average of the desires of 99% of my countrymen.

EDIT: Oh, and J... believe it or not, there's a real Bank of Sealy. I assume you meant mattresses.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Alerik the Fortunate »

Simon_Jester wrote:
I can't say I agree with everything on the 'recommended content' list, but then, I can't be expected to agree with absolutely everything that represents a weighted average of the desires of 99% of my countrymen.

EDIT: Oh, and J... believe it or not, there's a real Bank of Sealy. I assume you meant mattresses.
I'm curious what your particular reservations and recommendations are. I'd be curious to see discussion of an ideal OWS platform. Perhaps I ought to make another thread for it, though.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

We aren't paying for our financial elite's fuckups. Let BofA eat shit and die! :finger:
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Edi »

Count Chocula wrote:Simon, I can't and won't disagree with you, I believe my posts on the whole bailout issue will bear that out. I'm cross-threading here, but I can't help it; the Tea Party's genesis was in part a response to the shit that happened in 2005-2007 and really went pear-shaped in 2008, namely the Wall Street debacles. The more articulate OWS protesters seem to understand this, but while the Tea Party understood and took action and eventually organized a coherent message, the OWS folks have not. I'd love to see a common beliefs contrast and comparison between the Occupy Some City For The Fuck of It folks and the Tea Party folks, because I think they have more in common than either side realizes.
Okay, when the Tea Party types first started making noises, how long did it get for them to get organized enough to have a coherent message, a platform and an organization? A month? Two months? Three months? Longer?

The OWS crowd has been going for roughly a month, maybe a little less, and they don't even have anyone like Glenn Beck or similar egging them on. On the contrary, they're getting an organized smear campaign against them from the right wing side and organized attempts to shut them down by the authorities (see Denver and NYC for some of the things that have been done).

Yet you expect from them a similar degree of organization right out of the gate as a movement that has been organized for over three years? Get fucking real.

As far as the origins of the Tea Party, it is not so much that they opposed the bailouts or anything else. The main reason for the Tea Party to come into being was that a Democrat was elected president. Whoever says otherwise is lying. Whether lying just to everyone else or to both himself and everyone else, doesn't make much of a difference, since the Tea Party came into being as a response to an Obama presidency. Otherwise they would have organized well before Bush's second term ended and when he began constructing the bank bailouts.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Thanas »

Comrade Claus ignorant "hurf durf our troops should bomb bankers" bullcrap excised. Please continue.
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by J »

It gets better

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=198650
Let's Make The Clawback Risk REAL

One of the forum members pointed out something that was obvious to me when I wrote this morning's Ticker, but might have gone over your head.

I want to make absolutely sure it doesn't go over your head because if you're wrong about this you could lose everything in your bank and investment accounts -- every single dime.

FDIC / SIPC insured or not.

Recently Bank of America transferred a bunch of derivatives into their banking arm. "A bunch" means somewhere around $80 trillion worth.

Now pay very careful attention, because part of the bankruptcy "reform" law in 2005 placed derivative claims in front of depositors in a business failure - including a bank failure.

What JP Morgan is claiming in the MF Global case is that the derivative trade (which is exactly what a "Repo to Maturity" trade is - it's a derivative) is entitled to preference in the case of MF Global over those who had cash there for safekeeping either as a margin deposit or just as free cash as you would hold free cash in a bank.

If a major bank blows up this very same claim, supported in existing Bankruptcy Law with the changes signed by George Bush in 2005, will be used to steal the entirety of your bank account, and if you detect the impending blowup shortly before it happens -- say, 90 days before -- you're still exposed to the risk through clawback!

I have often referenced how that "reform" law in 2005 was used to screw you blind as a consumer, all under the name of the "ownership society" and "responsibility." The truth is that this "reform" law was a raw example of financial rape that was intended to and did assault you, the common consumer in America, for the explicit purpose of benefiting large financial institutions.

Don't run any crap about FDIC insurance in this sort of event either -- in the singular case of Bank of America we're talking about $77 trillion in face value of derivatives. While "notional" values are wildly beyond what anyone would have to pay (as that figure assumes the reference all goes to a literal value of zero) the fact remains that with even a 5% loss the amount of money required would be roughly equal to the entire US Federal Budget, which the FDIC clearly does not have -- nor could it acquire.

A cascade failure of several large banks would easily result in loss claims that would exceed the entire US GDP; for obvious reasons virtually none of that would actually be paid or recovered and in the case of you, the average person, your reasonable expectation of recovery in such an event is zero.

There is a fairly cogent argument to be made that what BofA did is tantamount to intentionally placing an armed financial nuclear device in the center of the board room table and then daring anyone -- including the government -- to come tamper with it and risk setting it off, knowing full well that if it explodes it is utterly impossible to contain the damage to our economy and financial system.

Oh, and just in case you missed it, this risk is not limited to Bank of America. Go look at any of the large banks and their derivative book of business' notional value and then tell me that it makes a bit of difference which institution we're talking about at any instant in time.

If this risk has not sunk into your brain by now despite my incessant table-pounding you need to go for a psychiatric examination stat. This is not to say that you're about to have the entirety of your savings accounts, CDs and similar disappear, because nobody knows exactly how much risk lies where with what in the US banking system (say much less the European one) and thus the odds of such an event cannot be qualified in any meaningful way.

But as we have seen since 2007 executives will lie with impunity about their exposure and level of risk in this regard and despite Sarbox, which allegedly makes such lies (when reduced to writing in a quarterly or annual report) a crime nobody has been prosecuted for doing so and it is quite clear to me that the US Department of Justice is intentionally running the clock on the statute of limitations so those who did and do so get away with it.

The bottom line is this: The risk is very real as customers of MF Global have now discovered "the hard way" and if you're sticking your head in the sand at this point you have no right of complaint when and if it happens to you.
To summarize:
- The banks plan to steal your money (see derivatives & bankruptcy reform)
- The precedent is there for them to do so (see MF Global)
- Moving your money is not enough as they can still take it away from you via clawbacks (see MF Global)
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by J »

Greed. Raw, unadulterated greed. Corruption is what lets them get away with it every time. Why make money honestly when one can simply steal it? Some time ago I wrote about the asset stripping which banks engage in wherein they steal anything which isn't nailed down. This is asset stripping taken to its logical conclusion; everything can and will be stolen from the people, if it's nailed down the banks will pry it loose and take it anyway.
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I'm not sure why people choose 'To Love is to Bury' as their wedding song...It's about a murder-suicide
- Margo Timmins


When it becomes serious, you have to lie
- Jean-Claude Juncker
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Re: BAC moves trillions (?) in risk from ibanking to retail

Post by Stark »

But the legislative framework they talk about in the article is so obviously stupid it must have been written and ratified by people who either didn't read it or must have known what would happen. The idea that the banks are somehow perverting or taking advantage of innocent lawmakers is bullshit.
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