Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

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Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Alyeska »

Ars Technica
How frustrating to be the mayor of a small town without good broadband access today. Imagine trying to entice businesses or entrepreneurs to a region where the best Internet option is the slow DSL most of us discarded nearly a decade ago for faster speeds.

The “broadband market” in much of the US happily provides snail-speed connections at inflated prices when compared to many of our peer nations. Cable and telephone companies see little reason to upgrade these networks—the low population density does not lend itself to quickly recovering investments.

Recognizing the disconnect between the best interests of distant shareholders and the best interest of their community, cities across the US have built their own networks, taking a page from the thousands of small cities that built their own electricity networks a century ago when private utilities ignored them.

Lafayette, Louisiana is a good example. The city begged its incumbents to beef up local broadband networks and was rebuffed. This Cajun country community decided to build its own next-generation network. The incumbents argued that the households and businesses of Lafayette had all the broadband they needed and sued to stop the city. This year, after years of litigation, the victorious city began connecting customers to LUS Fiber.

LUS Fiber may offer the best broadband value in the country, offering a true 10Mbps symmetrical connection for $29/month. Those wanting the 50Mbps symmetrical connection have to pony up just $58/month—about what I pay to my cable provider in Saint Paul for "up to" 16/2 speeds.

Unsurprisingly, the cable incumbent has now decided Lafayette is a priority and will be upgraded to DOCSIS 3.0 to offer faster tiers.

This same story has played out in communities across the country—see previous Ars coverage of the Monticello v. TDS battle that resulted in true broadband competition in that Minnesota town.
Barriers

Lafayette and Monticello were lucky because they had the power to build a digital network. Many communities do not. The Institute for Local Self-Reliance, where I am a researcher, compiled a basic map of the United States showing states that have enacted barriers to these community networks.
Municipal networks restriction map

Eighteen states impose some barriers to community broadband. Texas, Arkansas, Missouri, and Nebraska have an outright ban. Other states erect administrative and procedural hurdles that make it difficult for communities to invest in a full-service network. Though Monticello and Lafayette have succeeded in spite of barriers, many other communities are unable to persevere, and watch their younger generation leave for modern opportunities elsewhere.

As I’ve already noted, communities have fought this fight before—when electricity was only available to the urban and affluent. Profit-maximizing companies not only refused to build the grid to low-profit areas but argued those areas should not be permitted to wire themselves. Fortunately, FDR saw things differently:

I therefore lay down the following principle: That where a community—a city or county or a district—is not satisfied with the service rendered or the rates charged by the private utility, it has the undeniable basic right, as one of its functions of Government, one of its functions of home rule, to set up, after a fair referendum to its voters has been had, its own governmentally owned and operated service.

We need FDR to remind us that we are discussing the basic right of a community to invest in its future. Communities must not be held hostage by an absentee company that knows it can overcharge and under-invest without consequence.

Wireless is nice for mobility, but does not threaten the wired monopoly or duopoly. These networks—particularly full fiber-optic networks—are natural monopolies. There is no natural “market” any more than one could imagine a competitive market in streets or metro airports. This is infrastructure—the foundation for many other markets.
Are public networks a failure?

Why then, do one in three states discourage community-owned networks? Telecommunications companies—particularly those awash in revenues from mobile phones—can throw an overwhelming number of contributions, lobbyists, and “think tank” reports at legislators to convince them to ban or restrict publicly owned networks. Few legislators have a background in telecom and those that do typically come from industry.
Christopher Mitchell

Industry-funded think tanks have produced many reports claiming publicly owned networks are failures. Their methodology is suspect—equating long-term investments in next-generation networks with lost money. Using this methodology, any homeowner who fails to completely pay off his mortgage within a few years has failed.

The truth is that publicly owned networks do quite well. Communities typically borrow from outside investors to build the network and pay off the loans over a 15-20 year period with revenues from phone, television, and broadband services (for wired networks). These networks have eased telecom budgets (e.g. by increasing speed to schools while dramatically cutting costs) and encouraged economic development. Nationally, they average high take rates—a measure of how many people take service on the network.

State barriers to publicly owned broadband networks may benefit monopolistic cable and telephone companies but can cripple communities within those states. Of course, such policies also give a competitive edge to cities in other states who have moved ahead.

“Actually,” says Lafayette’s Republican Mayor, Joey Durel, “I often say with tongue firmly planted in cheek that I hope that the other 49 states do outlaw what we are doing. Then I will ask them to send their technology companies to Lafayette where we will welcome them with open arms and a big pot of gumbo.”
The "Free Market" refuses to provide a service for a community. Community tries to get the service themselves, the "Free Market" sues the Community to try and prevent it. I especially like the part where "Free Market" gets Corporate Welfare in the form of state laws that outright ban the practice.

I also like the distinction made when they talk about how it used to be with electricity. The rural people do not have a right to electricity, they should not be allowed to build their own networks cheaper than we want to refuse their service for! I have to agree with FDR. If the utility refuses to provide service, the local community has a right to provide it themselves.

Oh, Evil socialism at work destroying the free market and hurting big business profits, what ever shall we do?
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by weemadando »

It's amazing isn't it how "free enterprise" (like building your own local broadband business) becomes "evil socialism" when it clashes with the interests of big business.

And that invisible hand of the free market is every so visible with all that legislation chaining it down.

Goddamn. I'm running out of shitty metaphors. This situation is so pants-on-head retarded that it infuriates me. And the worst thing, no doubt there's 200 million fucking Americans who'd cheer on this corporate dick waving even when said dick is rippign their arsehole open.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

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But obviously the market wasn't free enough. If there was even less government interference and regulations, the private companies would compete harder for customers and there would never be a need for municipalisation.

This is a self-evident libertardian libertarian axiom which is so self evident I do not feel the need to provide empirical proof.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by PeZook »

How...what...

Why?

I'm speechless. Some states ban community-owned broadband initiatives?

WHY?! What possible justification can be drummed up for this practice? Why didn't anybody try to wreck it in the Supreme Court? Isn't that the complete antithesis to the Holy And Glorious US Constitution?

Just when I thought American can't surprise me anymore. Man...

Over here in Evil East Europe, it's downright common that communities take care of things like these if some company or another refuses to, or just because it's more efficient to pool resources than buy services one by one. Of course, it's usually done by establishing a fund and contracting a company to do the job, but the practice of establishing local community-run nonprofits to provide some service or another is not unheard of, and even praised in the media as a show of good and efficient government.

It's like...like American government is just plain insane.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Vendetta »

PeZook wrote: I'm speechless. Some states ban community-owned broadband initiatives?

WHY?! What possible justification can be drummed up for this practice? Why didn't anybody try to wreck it in the Supreme Court? Isn't that the complete antithesis to the Holy And Glorious US Constitution?
Because big business has the money and influence to get laws put on the books.

Government in the united states, at state or federal level, exists to serve the needs of the money, not the many.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by PeZook »

Vendetta wrote: Because big business has the money and influence to get laws put on the books.

Government in the united states, at state or federal level, exists to serve the needs of the money, not the many.
It's not like corrupt politicians are a US-only phenomenon. Polish business has just as much ability to lobby and influence Polish politicians.

Of course, we've only been a liberal market economy for 20 years or so, and so carry a lot of Communist baggage with us, including people's mentality. This can be beneficial, it seems, when people actually expect the government to do a government's job...
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Big Orange »

PeZook wrote: Of course, we've only been a liberal market economy for 20 years or so, and so carry a lot of Communist baggage with us, including people's mentality. This can be beneficial, it seems, when people actually expect the government to do a government's job...
And in America (Britain and Canada to a lesser extent) the mentality is of course the other way around in regards to large US companies and lawyers, and their bullying ways. And big telecom providers acting unnecessarily aggressive and selfish in the face of isolated communities helping themselves to link up is in a lot of ways more anti-social than the music industry counterproductively clamping down on file sharers - it's as silly as building/rennovation contractors coming round to beat you up and wreck your house, just because you're doing DIY.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

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Article wrote:Industry-funded think tanks have produced many reports claiming publicly owned networks are failures
That is... just awesome. It's like these shampoo commercials where the shampoo is certified as "the only way to quickly clean your hair" by some "Institute of Healthy Hair" (created and funded by Unilever or whatever other fucking corporation produces the wash goo) :lol:
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Simon_Jester »

weemadando wrote:It's amazing isn't it how "free enterprise" (like building your own local broadband business) becomes "evil socialism" when it clashes with the interests of big business.

And that invisible hand of the free market is every so visible with all that legislation chaining it down.

Goddamn. I'm running out of shitty metaphors. This situation is so pants-on-head retarded that it infuriates me. And the worst thing, no doubt there's 200 million fucking Americans who'd cheer on this corporate dick waving even when said dick is rippign their arsehole open.
Me, I disagree, I say 100 million, maybe 150, tops.
PeZook wrote:It's not like corrupt politicians are a US-only phenomenon. Polish business has just as much ability to lobby and influence Polish politicians.

Of course, we've only been a liberal market economy for 20 years or so, and so carry a lot of Communist baggage with us, including people's mentality. This can be beneficial, it seems, when people actually expect the government to do a government's job...
Groan. Yes. Over here we still have this absurd conceit that large corporations are part of "us" and not "them," so to speak, that they're actually part of the country for purposes of figuring out how well the country is doing.

If that were true, it would make at least some sense to take their interests into account, but that era ended decades ago.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

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Simon_Jester wrote:Over here we still have this absurd conceit that large corporations are part of "us" and not "them," so to speak, that they're actually part of the country for purposes of figuring out how well the country is doing.
I wonder how much of that has to do with the stock market being open to the middle class. If the middle class as a whole is heavily invested in the stock of large corporations, then they have some ground to treat large corporations as "us" and not "them".
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by weemadando »

I remember back in uni I did a PolSci course where a lot of the focus was on the role of the "corporate citizen" in a globalised world.

You know what I thought then (and still think now) - if any other citizen acted the way that these "corporate citizens" do, then they'd have been fucking arrested, or at the very least taken to the cleaners by the tax office and every other agency with a right to do so.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Garibaldi »

WHY?! What possible justification can be drummed up for this practice? Why didn't anybody try to wreck it in the Supreme Court? Isn't that the complete antithesis to the Holy And Glorious US Constitution?
No, and I submit that you should cool your hyperbolic outrage when discussing issues you clearly know nothing about. Under the Constitution, states are sovereign, but virtually all local county and municipal governments derive their authority from the state legislatures. I agree with the general sentiment of the article, but local governments no "rights" like the states do.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by septesix »

Maybe someone can help me out here.

While I agree whole heartily that there should be no "BAN" on local government deciding what they want to do. I wonder why there weren't any private investor who step up to the task here.

If the demand is really there, why couldn't the concerned citizens get together, pool their money, and setup a private enterprise that will do the same job anyway? Maybe even set it up as a non-profit to get some tax benefit, have it operated as essentially an citizen-owned cooperative? And all the while this would still fit under the Free Market Capitalism concept.

What would be the problem with that? How come we never hear any town that try this? is there some reason this model is unworkable, or simply less desirable than the government route?
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Edi »

It's less desirable, because it requires setting up a separate parallel organization just for that one purpose, which is a waste of resources and in the end it would all fall on just a few people to organize and do.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by PeZook »

septesix wrote: If the demand is really there, why couldn't the concerned citizens get together, pool their money, and setup a private enterprise that will do the same job anyway? Maybe even set it up as a non-profit to get some tax benefit, have it operated as essentially an citizen-owned cooperative? And all the while this would still fit under the Free Market Capitalism concept.
The local government did just that: they set up a government-owned local company. In effect, using the pooled resources of local citizens to create the company.
Garibaldi wrote: No, and I submit that you should cool your hyperbolic outrage when discussing issues you clearly know nothing about. Under the Constitution, states are sovereign, but virtually all local county and municipal governments derive their authority from the state legislatures. I agree with the general sentiment of the article, but local governments no "rights" like the states do.
Obviously. It doesn't stop some right wingers from opposing any government initiative to regulate private business on the grounds that the Holy And Glorious Constitution guarantees freedom!

Yet, outright bans on elected community leaders creating a business (in the Louisiana case, they didn't even use tax money to do it...) to handle a need of their constituents have...come unchallenged. Hence my ironic comment.
Garibaldi wrote:What would be the problem with that? How come we never hear any town that try this? is there some reason this model is unworkable, or simply less desirable than the government route?
It's likely the local government can simply give better guarantees to secure a loan.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Netko »

That the US broadband market is insane is hardly news. For all the dick-waving about the almighty free market, Americans (especially their politicians) sure love their natural monopolies, and take steps to protect them. In rural areas, per the OP, the incumbents are, mostly successfully, fighting against local broadband initiatives, while in more densly populated areas with built-up networks they operate as monopolies, screwing their customers out of basically whatever they want to charge. Of course, there is a remedy for that, employed world wide, but, as usual, that would never work in the US (never mind that it did work, and was the law in the US between '96 and '01 - before the telcos bought themselves more favourable rules):
Ars wrote:Line sharing best solution for slow, expensive US broadband
The FCC may have gotten more than it bargained for when it commissioned a huge report on broadband from Harvard researchers. The data is clear: regulated "open access" schemes, where telecoms and cable companies are forced to lease their lines to other companies, have been better for broadband than the US model.
By Nate Anderson | Last updated October 15, 2009 3:06 PM
FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski has already riled up the country's big ISPs in so many ways—network neutrality for wired and wireless networks, inquiries into wireless billing and competition—that he might want to have a staffer start tasting his coffee first. But a new report (PDF) commissioned by the FCC threatens to make all those other issues look petty by pointing out that mandating "open access" to broadband networks works really, really well as a way to boost speeds and lower costs.

If you thought ISPs hated the idea of network neutrality, imagine if Genachowski actually starts talking about forced line-sharing or "functional separation."
"Incumbent recalcitrance"

According to the 200+ page report, the idea of open access may be unpopular in the US, but a careful look at the data shows just how well it worked. "Contrary to perceptions in the United States, there is extensive evidence to support the position, adopted almost universally by other advanced economies, that open access policies, where undertaken with serious regulatory engagement, contributed to broadband penetration, capacity, and affordability in the first generation of broadband," it says.

In fact, "The lowest prices and highest speeds are almost all offered by firms in markets where, in addition to an incumbent telephone company and a cable company, there are also competitors who entered the market, and built their presence, though use of open access facilities."

If that's tough to digest, consider the following chart which graphs the costs and speeds of the fastest broadband offerings of providers from all over the world. The high-priced, low-speed options are in the lower-left, while the low-priced, high-speed options are in the upper right. We have highlighted the US ISPs on the chart with red boxes just to drive the point home.
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(Canadians, you can stop laughing now; as the report notes, Canadian ISPs have a reputation for quality that is largely unearned; note the locations of Shaw, Rogers, and Bell Canada above.)

The report was commissioned months ago by the FCC, but it was done by Harvard University's Berkman Center for Internet and Society (cofounded years ago by none other than Joel Tenenbaum defender law professor Charlie Nesson). The money to fund the report didn't come from the FCC, but largely from the Ford and MacArthur foundations "so as to allow us to respond to this highly time-sensitive request to support the FCC’s efforts, while maintaining complete independence from the agency." The lead author was Yochai Benkler, author of The Wealth of Network (the curious can download the book as a PDF).

Julius Genachowski's FCC has been promising a "data-driven" approach to contentious issues since he arrived, and the new report is one of the fruits of that effort. But did Genachowski think he was going to get this?

"We find that in countries where an engaged regulator enforced open access obligations, competitors that entered using these open access facilities provided an important catalyst for the development of robust competition which, in most cases, contributed to strong broadband performance across a range of metrics. Today these competitors continue to play, directly or through successor companies, a central role in the competitiveness of the markets they inhabit. Incumbents almost always resist this regulation, and the degree to which a regulator is professional, engaged, and effective appears to play a role in the extent to which open access is successfully implemented with positive effects."

And if incumbents show "recalcitrance," government can always force them to "functionally separate" their ISP business from the underlying last mile network—as the UK has already done to BT.

Open access turns out to be so crucial that the report actually spends much of its time discussing the issue with case studies and lots of number-crunching.

"Open access" to broadband networks used to be the law of the land. From 1996 to 2001, telcos like AT&T were required to lease their last-mile copper networks to competitors (cable was never included in the scheme), and companies like Earthlink sprang up to compete with the telcos' own Internet offerings. Most other countries with developed Internet infrastructures have adopted open access schemes of various stripes—Canada forces telcos to share lines, while countries like the UK and Australia are working on massive fiber networks that will have to be leased to anyone (Japan already uses this scheme).

Even countries that initially opposed such open access rules, like Switzerland and New Zealand, changed course and adopted them in 2006.

The report doesn't tell Genachowski to push for open access in the US, but it comes pretty close. After analyzing all the data on US broadband and sifting through the controversies about each data source, the Berkman researchers synthesized the various rankings into a single score for penetration, speed, and price. The US was 17th in broadband penetration, 11th in speed, and 12th in price.
Better in Busan

One other list really brings the point home. When one looks at the actual download speeds in various cities around the world, no US city even makes the top 20. Instead, honors go to:

1. Busan
2. Seoul
3. Göteborg
4. Stockholm
5. Yokohama
6. Amsterdam
7. Paris
8. Tokyo
9. Aarhus
10. Helsinki
11. Rotterdam
12. Hamburg
13. Kosice
14. Bern
15. Berlin
16. Copenhagen
17. Espoo
18. Lyon
19. Lisbon
20. Oslo

So congratulations, residents of Busan and Aarhus. Of course, we all know that the only reason you're winning the broadband race is because we live among the amber waves of grain while you scuttle about in concrete high rises.

Actually, the Berkman report debunks the population density argument, too. "The surprise here is that despite its high density, South Korea actually outperforms even what its high urban density would predict, and that highly dense countries like the Netherlands and Denmark also outperform what their urban concentration would predict," it says. "In general, most of the countries that appear to be positive observation models, as identified by their levels of penetration, are above their predicted penetration levels given urban concentration, suggesting that their presence in the higher quintiles of penetration indeed marks them as potential models for policy observation, rather than simply as the beneficiaries of propitious geography."

"Models for policy observation" they may be, but does open access in the US really stand a chance of returning? And would Genachowski even consider picking such a fight in the near future? We wouldn't be surprised.
That line-sharing works is amply documented - my local experience is just amazing - since 2006. when the local incumbent telco was forced to open up its infrastructure, broadband speeds have been doubling roughly yearly, with prices falling like a rock, and unmetered access becoming the norm instead of very limited - several GBs monthly - packages. Yet the US is possibly the only developed country not making sure that free market conditions exist in the broadband sphere, preferring instead local monopolies. Bit ironic, considering the US' declared principles.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Edi »

Thanks for posting that, Netko. As a point of interest, the Finnish ISPs Welho, Elisa and Telia-Sonera are all among the top performing group there. The chart also puts in perspective for me just how good I have it here in terms of the broadband market and Finland actually suffers from a low population density, which does affect costs.

The US arguments for not unbundling the local loop and having open access are entirely specious.
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Darth Wong »

weemadando wrote:It's amazing isn't it how "free enterprise" (like building your own local broadband business) becomes "evil socialism" when it clashes with the interests of big business.

And that invisible hand of the free market is every so visible with all that legislation chaining it down.

Goddamn. I'm running out of shitty metaphors. This situation is so pants-on-head retarded that it infuriates me. And the worst thing, no doubt there's 200 million fucking Americans who'd cheer on this corporate dick waving even when said dick is rippign their arsehole open.
I still think nothing beats the spectacle of ordinary citizens standing up in health-care "town hall" meetings and demanding that politicians guarantee that health insurance industry profits would not be reduced by health care reform. That actually surprised me, and I'm a pretty damned cynical guy, especially about American politics. It's utterly amazing how brainwashed some of them are about corporatism.
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"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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montypython
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by montypython »

Darth Wong wrote:
weemadando wrote:It's amazing isn't it how "free enterprise" (like building your own local broadband business) becomes "evil socialism" when it clashes with the interests of big business.

And that invisible hand of the free market is every so visible with all that legislation chaining it down.

Goddamn. I'm running out of shitty metaphors. This situation is so pants-on-head retarded that it infuriates me. And the worst thing, no doubt there's 200 million fucking Americans who'd cheer on this corporate dick waving even when said dick is rippign their arsehole open.
I still think nothing beats the spectacle of ordinary citizens standing up in health-care "town hall" meetings and demanding that politicians guarantee that health insurance industry profits would not be reduced by health care reform. That actually surprised me, and I'm a pretty damned cynical guy, especially about American politics. It's utterly amazing how brainwashed some of them are about corporatism.
Which is why I absolutely have no faith in the American body politic getting its head out of its arse at this point.
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Phantasee
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Phantasee »

What are those two diagonal lines in the graph?

I noticed my provider, Telus, ranks worst out of the Canadian ISPs. We've been thinking of switching back to Shaw for a while now. Speed and cost aside, they have some of the best customer service I've ever experienced. We have them for cable at the moment, although Telus is aggressively pushing it's TelusTV offering. It's cheaper than cable, for now, but it sucks. so. hard.
XXXI
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Netko
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Netko »

They are arbitrary category lines based on the grouping of providers. Basically, in the graph, the worst providers are to the lower left corner (low speed, high price), while the best are in the upper right corner (high speed, low price). Any providers that are on the same parallel line to the category lines offer the same value for your money (ie. for a linearly faster speed there is a proportional linear increase in price). For example, Time Warner and Cox both have the same ratio of price/speed, with Cox offering higher speeds but at higher prices, while, for example Com Hem is better then both of them (better ratio) because it offers Cox's speeds at TW's prices.

So you are reading the graph wrong. Bell Canada and Rodgers (and possibly other Canadian providers who I don't recognise) both give you worse value for your money (Telus offers the same speed as Bell, but cheaper).
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Phantasee
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Phantasee »

I was reading the graph wrong, I didn't examine the y-axis closely enough to realize it didn't originate at 0 in the bottom left corner. And around here there's a choice between Telus and Shaw, Bell and Rogers don't compete here AFAIK.
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Steel
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Steel »

That graph isn't terribly helpful, although it is a bit useful. It uses the maximum advertised speed rather than what you actually get or what speed is available in most places.

Theres a big difference between a place that says "up to 100M*"

*in our company HQ, however outside you'll only get 10M**

**if no other customers are online

and one that actually gives 20M.

To get a good ranking you have to control for factors like actual speeds in high demand times, what speeds are actually available in most places, and typical speeds vs max speeds pricing.
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Shaun
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Re: Free Market Capitalism vs Socialism, the Fiber Optic debate

Post by Shaun »

I don't really think that laws against communities setting up their own initiatives is "free market capitalism"...

Seems the exact opposite to me, in fact.
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