Texas tries Secessionism 2.0: Seeks to null Fed. laws.

[SirNitram]

Link

AUSTIN -- Note to Washington, D.C.: Texas is a sovereign state.

After Gov. Rick Perry's recent comments about some Texans talking secession from the union made national news, legislators are considering issuing a "cease and desist" order to the federal government.

"This state prefers, to the greatest extent possible, to control our own destiny," said Rep. Vicki Truitt, R-Keller, one of several members co-sponsoring the measure. "We prefer that federal government limit the amount of federal mandates it forces upon the people of Texas."

House Concurrent Resolution 50, which claims sovereignty for Texas under the U.S. Constitution's 10th Amendment, was one of several proposals to go before the House State Affairs Committee late Tuesday.

Rep. Brandon Creighton, R-Conroe, filed the bill, saying that more than a dozen states have proposed similar efforts amid concern that the federal government may be overstepping its boundaries.

"From restrictions on gun and ammunition sales, to freedom-of-choice issues, to the Real ID Act, the federal government is passing laws that limit a state's ability to govern itself," Creighton has said. "Texas simply wants to send the message that we want to govern ourselves and decide for ourselves how our money is to be spent."

Under this resolution, the 81st Legislature "hereby claim sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States."

"This serve as notice and demand to the federal government ... to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers."

Rep. Mark Shelton, R-Fort Worth, also signed on as a co-sponsor.

"Texans should have the right for their representatives in Austin to decide what is best for Texas," Shelton said.

Perry -- who stirred a firestorm last week with secession talk -- said he supports this bill, especially since the federal government "has become oppressive in its size, its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the affairs of our state." "I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations, and ultimately strengthen our union."

Rep. Lon Burnam, D-Fort Worth, said that he initially considered serving as a co-sponsor as well but that he changed his mind because of Perry.

"The concept has been corrupted by gubernatorial politics," he said.

Right-Wingers dream: They get to give the finger to anything they don't like, and still keep healthy dollops of federal cash coming into the State.

[Chardok]

They need to lock that idiot up for inciting this nonsense. Surely there is some kind of a Macnamara-esque anti-sedition law they can throw at this redneck dipshit.

and yeah, I'd say he's being a seditious twat:

Sedition is a term of law which refers to covert conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. A seditionist is one who engages in or promotes the interests of sedition.

He'd better reign in the legislature toot suite, or the federal government just may start taking them seriously.

[Darth Fanboy]

This officially makes them Anti-American right? And yet if you asked them...

[The Romulan Republic]

I doubt they can arrest the governor or these legislators legally, and even if they could, I would advise against it. If he were arrested, it would be taken as proof that Obama was locking up all disenters, and their would likely be blood in the streets that night, perhaps shortly followed by an assassination attempt on Obama. Better to let them spout their bullshit and respect their freedom of speech, and take no overt action unless their's actual action.

However, I wonder if it can really be avoided at this point. I hope so, but when state legislators are buying into this crap, it certainly looks like we're heading towards, if not a full civil war, at least large scale civil violence. Then again, it was a lot more violent in the US before the Civil War if I remember the history correctly. It was more violent during the 60's. Its been a lot worse than this before, and America hasn't collapsed. So I'm not entirely pessimistic.

Also, note that nothing in the above article says that they are not advocating secession or armed revolt. Well, I guess it depends on what they mean by Texas "sovereignty." From what I see though, they're not actually trying to pass a bill making Texas a sepperate nation.

[Broomstick]

I doubt they can arrest the governor or these legislators legally

If I recall, there are restrictions on arresting legislators going to or while in session but outside of that they are subject to the laws of the land and certainly in the past politicians have been arrested (drunk driving offenses being the ones I most readily recall, mostly from the Kennedy family)

perhaps shortly followed by an assassination attempt on Obama.

There have been at least two planned assassination attempts that the Secret Service put a stop to before they actually had the chance to take a shot at him - and those are just the ones that made the news.

Then again, it was a lot more violent in the US before the Civil War if I remember the history correctly. It was more violent during the 60's. Its been a lot worse than this before, and America hasn't collapsed. So I'm not entirely pessimistic.

Yes, that is correct - things were a LOT more violent in the past at times.

Also, note that nothing in the above article says that they are not advocating secession or armed revolt. Well, I guess it depends on what they mean by Texas "sovereignty."

That is an important point - as long as they don't define it too narrowly they have some wiggle room.

From what I see though, they're not actually trying to pass a bill making Texas a sepperate nation.

Of course not - they still want Federal dollars, they just don't want to obey Federal rules. If they WERE a truly separate nation the Mexican drug cartels would probably invade them by the following week.

[Falkenhayn]

I direct the Texas State Legislature to Ableman vs. Booth (1859). Federal Law supersedes State Law in all cases where they conflict, thereby nullifying John C. Calhoun's baby, "Nullification". Of course, if Texas simply isn't going to follow Federal Law anymore...that's simply Rebellion.

[The Romulan Republic]

I doubt they can arrest the governor or these legislators legally

If I recall, there are restrictions on arresting legislators going to or while in session but outside of that they are subject to the laws of the land and certainly in the past politicians have been arrested (drunk driving offenses being the ones I most readily recall, mostly from the Kennedy family)

I know. I meant that they probably couldn't arrest them for anything they've said that's the subject of this thread. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

There have been at least two planned assassination attempts that the Secret Service put a stop to before they actually had the chance to take a shot at him - and those are just the ones that made the news.

Again, I know their have been attempts, or at least suspected ones (though fortunately very half-assed from what I've heard). No reason to encourage more violence though. The government should be trying to calm tensions, and if worst comes to worst, wait for them to make the first move and then crush them.

Of course not - they still want Federal dollars, they just don't want to obey Federal rules. If they WERE a truly separate nation the Mexican drug cartels would probably invade them by the following week.

What would the cartels possibly gain by invading Texas? What's the motive for them to do so?

Also, if Texas were a nation, wouldn't they be a nuclear one (a terrifying thought, to be sure)?

[Broomstick]

Of course not - they still want Federal dollars, they just don't want to obey Federal rules. If they WERE a truly separate nation the Mexican drug cartels would probably invade them by the following week.

What would the cartels possibly gain by invading Texas? What's the motive for them to do so?

Their own private fiefdom, at least in theory. Also, Texas was originally part of Mexico, and there's a segment of Mexican society that has always wanted it back (along with other bits of the US southwest like California, Arizona, New Mexico, etc.)

A truly independent Texas wouldn't have nearly the firepower of Texas as part of the US.

Also, if Texas were a nation, wouldn't they be a nuclear one (a terrifying thought, to be sure)?

Why would they? Are there even nuclear weapons stationed in Texas? If there are, I assure you they are already under Federal control, and there's no way the Feds would tolerate a break-away state keeping nukes. I suppose the possibility exists, but it's a very, very slim and unlikely one.

[Beowulf]

I feel compelled to point out drug (mostly marujuana) legallization. It's de facto proof that states which don't want to follow federal laws can get (mostly) away with it.

[The Romulan Republic]

Are there even nuclear weapons stationed in Texas? If there are, I assure you they are already under Federal control, and there's no way the Feds would tolerate a break-away state keeping nukes. I suppose the possibility exists, but it's a very, very slim and unlikely one.

If they have nuclear power plants, couldn't they make their own nukes? Do you really think a state that, if it broke away, would likely be run by apocalyptic, paranoid religious neocons wouldn't want any?

[Broomstick]

Civilian nuclear power plants in the US are designed (as near as I can recall - I am not an expert in this stuff) so that they don't produce stuff that works well for bomb-making. Bomb bits are made in military reactors. What comes out of civilian reactors can make dirty bombs, but not nuclear/atomic bombs.

Of course, if a real nuclear expert comes along and contradicts that I'll just have to live with being misinformed.

[Samuel]

Are there even nuclear weapons stationed in Texas? If there are, I assure you they are already under Federal control, and there's no way the Feds would tolerate a break-away state keeping nukes. I suppose the possibility exists, but it's a very, very slim and unlikely one.

If they have nuclear power plants, couldn't they make their own nukes? Do you really think a state that, if it broke away, would likely be run by apocalyptic, paranoid religious neocons wouldn't want any?

There is a bit more to it than just having uranium. Others are experts, but it requires refinement into weapons grade form for starters.

[Mr Bean]

Speaking of which would it not be delicious irony if Texas were to succeed only to be annexed by Mexico? If we(The US) pulled all Army/Airforce/Marine/Navy forces out of there and left only the National Guard soldiers(And their equipment) what exactly would Texas be left with to defend itself from a Mexican aggressor? Sure they have a high per-captia private gun-ownership but as Afghanistan V Russia proves, your hand-cannon (Or actual cannon since you are allowed to legally own Civil War Era Cannon) does not mean dick against a decent Helicopter Gunship.

However if this talk gets any more serious look to some high profile companies shifting operations, what company in it's right mind would want to stay in such a state if this talk gets any more serious. Even if it's all just bluster(Anti-American bluster) but it would be the easiest way to send a strong message to the Republican backing economic interests.

[Starglider]

If we(The US) pulled all Army/Airforce/Marine/Navy forces out of there and left only the National Guard soldiers(And their equipment) what exactly would Texas be left with to defend itself from a Mexican aggressor?

[lolbertarian]If that happened Texas would just hire mercenaries, Blackwater maybe, and they would totally kick the asses of those Mexican commie scum, and lead the Texas National Guard in a successful counterattack that captures Mexico City! I'm pretty sure this was the plot of a Tom Clancy book so it must be completely realistic.[/lolbertarian]

[TrailerParkJawa]

Speaking of which would it not be delicious irony if Texas were to succeed only to be annexed by Mexico? If we(The US) pulled all Army/Airforce/Marine/Navy forces out of there and left only the National Guard soldiers(And their equipment) what exactly would Texas be left with to defend itself from a Mexican aggressor? Sure they have a high per-captia private gun-ownership but as Afghanistan V Russia proves, your hand-cannon (Or actual cannon since you are allowed to legally own Civil War Era Cannon) does not mean dick against a decent Helicopter Gunship.

However if this talk gets any more serious look to some high profile companies shifting operations, what company in it's right mind would want to stay in such a state if this talk gets any more serious. Even if it's all just bluster(Anti-American bluster) but it would be the easiest way to send a strong message to the Republican backing economic interests.

Exactly! Not only would the Feds remove every single military base but they'd take all the federal own equipment and personel from other agencies as well. I'm sure the "rebels" as they deem themselves would not be too happy with all the civilian jobs lost surrounding all these bases. Not too mention all the Texans who would move OUT of the state because they would prefer to be members of the Union and the drain on resources would be quite interesting too see.

[apocolypse]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand what the hell Texas's problem is as of late. Granted, between work and school I'm probably not the most up to date wrt current events, but I don't see how things have so completely changed in the few months of Obama's presidency that Texas is shitting over. I honestly can not think of anything that wouldn't hold true under Bush as well. Unless someone has insight that I'm missing, I'd say Texas just needs to shut the fuck up and accept a Democrat president because that's the only noticeable change I can see.

[Darth Yoshi]

Speaking of which would it not be delicious irony if Texas were to succeed only to be annexed by Mexico? If we(The US) pulled all Army/Airforce/Marine/Navy forces out of there and left only the National Guard soldiers(And their equipment) what exactly would Texas be left with to defend itself from a Mexican aggressor? Sure they have a high per-captia private gun-ownership but as Afghanistan V Russia proves, your hand-cannon (Or actual cannon since you are allowed to legally own Civil War Era Cannon) does not mean dick against a decent Helicopter Gunship.

However if this talk gets any more serious look to some high profile companies shifting operations, what company in it's right mind would want to stay in such a state if this talk gets any more serious. Even if it's all just bluster(Anti-American bluster) but it would be the easiest way to send a strong message to the Republican backing economic interests.

Presumably the Mexicans would be concerned about a possible US counterattack. Yes, the US has proven it doesn't really care about keeping Texas by letting it secede and gutting the state's defense, but that's a far cry from letting someone else have Texas. Of course, if it gets to the point where a Texan secession is successful, I doubt that either the populace or the administration would care terribly about their plight.

[Anarchist Bunny]

All this is is a republican governor and a couple of republican state legislator being a bunch of twats. Absolutely nothing will come to pass of this. The republican party as a whole have been a giant tear soaked knot of twats since Obama came into office and this is just the latest batch of bullshit from the party. The fucker was lucky as hell to get elected last term and its likely now we're gonna kick the fucker out next year. Hopefully we'll be getting Kinky Friedman elected if he decides to run this time as a democrat(because as he said, "Jesus couldn't win as an Independent")

[Prannon]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand what the hell Texas's problem is as of late. Granted, between work and school I'm probably not the most up to date wrt current events, but I don't see how things have so completely changed in the few months of Obama's presidency that Texas is shitting over. I honestly can not think of anything that wouldn't hold true under Bush as well. Unless someone has insight that I'm missing, I'd say Texas just needs to shut the fuck up and accept a Democrat president because that's the only noticeable change I can see.

You have to understand the political culture of conservatism and the fear mongering that has been going on in the right wing for the past 15 or so years to understand why all this noise is coming out of Texas right now. I used to be like these people, so I think I can reveal their motivations.

See, on the right fringe, it's not about pragmatism or good policies or keeping the economy afloat or any of that stuff. Those things play second fiddle to your "Christian Decency." A good Republican Christian would never abuse your rights...because he's decent! A good Republican Christian would never tax you wrong...because he's decent! And so on and so forth. This whole attitude arises from the Clinton years and some misconceptions and false conclusions. Clinton had oral sex with an intern? In the oval office?? He's not a decent man! And he's a liberal! They'll steal your rights, and abuse them too! Like they did at Waco, taking guns and stuff. They'll tax you until you don't have any reasonable amount of money left, and then give it to people who don't deserve it (like they do in France...cowardly traitors...)! They'll pander to gay people and the moral fabric of society will come apart, and they'll destroy the military and we won't be able to defend ourselves. Our nation will collapse and we'll all suffer under the *insert insidious foreign enemy or terrorist here*. Not like good, decent, Christian Republicans.

See, a good, decent, Christian Republican is what we had under Bush. Sure he greatly expanded the power of the executive branch...but he's a decent man so he would never abuse that power. Sure the budget has been in deficit for years under his administration, but that was because of the War on Terror, and that is a good, patriotic! cause. More excuses will follow.

This whole political viewing-glass has demonized liberalism to the point of being evil on a Satanic level. It is destruction incarnate. This point of view is crafted in something of a wind tunnel on the far right among families, church-goers, friends, and coworkers. I've said before that Texas is very diverse, and it is, but I have to admit that conservatism is dominant so many liberal-minded people keep quiet to avoid political arguments. That said, Obama is the symbol of this liberal ideal that conservatives have spent more than 15 years demonizing. It matters not that he's only been in office for 3 months. What matters is that he is the image of political evil, and they will not stand for it.

[Spambot Jedi]

All this is is a republican governor and a couple of republican state legislator being a bunch of twats. Absolutely nothing will come to pass of this. The republican party as a whole have been a giant tear soaked knot of twats since Obama came into office and this is just the latest batch of bullshit from the party. The fucker was lucky as hell to get elected last term and its likely now we're gonna kick the fucker out next year. Hopefully we'll be getting Kinky Friedman elected if he decides to run this time as a democrat(because as he said, "Jesus couldn't win as an Independent")

Better yet, how about Governor Leslie Cochran:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Cochran

Anyway, maybe we can keep Austin and San Antonio and get rid of the rest of Texas.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The Pantex facility in Amarillo Texas happens to be the ONLY place in the USA at which the assembly and disassembly of nuclear weapons is currently conducted.

[Darth Wong]

Does anyone ever ask these people just how much of the federal debt they intend to take away with them?

[Qwerty 42]

Does anyone ever ask these people just how much of the federal debt they intend to take away with them?

Or what to do with Federal military bases in Texas?

[RedImperator]

All this is is a republican governor and a couple of republican state legislator being a bunch of twats. Absolutely nothing will come to pass of this. The republican party as a whole have been a giant tear soaked knot of twats since Obama came into office and this is just the latest batch of bullshit from the party.

You beat me to it. Perry is a grandstanding halfwit chucklefuck and he always has been, and Texas is about as likely to secede as I am to shit rubies. The secession argle-bargle is a good barometer of how unhinged the GOP has become, but it's not a serious threat.

The amateur lawyering was hilarious as always, though. "Sedition!" Is sedition even on the fucking books anymore? And bonus lulz for the bedwetting: "Nukular Texas! Civil war!"

[Darth Wong]

I don't think anyone seriously thinks it would actually happen. It's just a sad commentary on the state of politics in Texas.