The VP-Debate

[Metatwaddle]

Among undecideds / independents, I'd call this in Obama / Biden's favor, if not by much, but in their favor and not a flat 'tie.'

Not by much? MRDOD posted the numbers before you posted, and they clearly thought Biden won every single issue, usually by about a 2:1 ratio.

[Medic]

Among undecideds / independents, I'd call this in Obama / Biden's favor, if not by much, but in their favor and not a flat 'tie.'

Not by much? MRDOD posted the numbers before you posted, and they clearly thought Biden won every single issue, usually by about a 2:1 ratio.

After Bush won by re-election, I take nothing for granted. (btw, he posted while I did; I know this cause we upgraded the board software and it allowed me to see this but I chose not to read the post all the same)

I had my gut to go by, not a million text messages anyway or millions of online polls.

Did I mention it's really fucking hot in here? I'm drinking malt liquor, on the 3rd floor of a barracks room with no air conditioning. IT'S FUCKING HOT.

[Superman]

Speaking of polls and Palin, this is from the Washington Post:

Skepticism of Palin Growing, Poll Finds
By Jon Cohen and Jennifer Agiesta
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 2, 2008; Page A0

With the vice presidential candidates set to square off today in their only scheduled debate, public assessments of Sarah Palin's readiness have plummeted, and she may now be a drag on the Republican ticket among key voter groups, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Tonight's heavily anticipated debate comes just five weeks after the popular Alaska governor entered the national spotlight as Sen. John McCain's surprise pick to be his running mate. Though she initially transformed the race with her energizing presence and a fiery convention speech, Palin is now a much less positive force: Six in 10 voters see her as lacking the experience to be an effective president, and a third are now less likely to vote for McCain because of her.

A month ago, voters rated Palin as highly as they did McCain or his Democratic rival, Sen. Barack Obama, but after weeks of intensive coverage and several perceived missteps, the shine has diminished.

Nearly a third of adults in a new poll from the Pew Research Center said they paid a lot of attention to Palin's interviews with CBS News's Katie Couric, a series that prompted grumbling among some conservative commentators about Palin's competency to be the GOP's vice presidential standard-bearer. The Pew poll showed views of Palin slipping over the past few days alone.

In the new Post-ABC poll, Palin matches the Democratic vice presidential candidate, Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., on empathy, one of McCain's clear deficits against Obama, while fewer than half of voters think she understands "complex issues."

But it is the experience question that may prove her highest hurdle, particularly when paired with widespread public concern about McCain's age. About half of all voters said they were uncomfortable with the idea of McCain taking office at age 72, and 85 percent of those voters said Palin does not have the requisite experience to be president.

The 60 percent who now see Palin as insufficiently experienced to step into the presidency is steeply higher than in a Post-ABC poll after her nomination early last month. Democrats and Republicans alike are now more apt to doubt her qualifications, but the biggest shift has come among independents.

In early September, independents offered a divided verdict on Palin's experience; now they take the negative view by about 2 to 1. Nearly two-thirds of both independent men and women in the new poll said Palin has insufficient experience to run the White House.

Obama was able for the first time to crack the 50 percent mark, albeit barely, on whether he has the experience to be president following Friday's presidential debate, and the question is one of Palin's central challenges as she prepares to face Biden in prime time before a national television audience.

More than two-thirds of voters in the Pew poll said they plan to watch the debate, far more than said they were going to turn on the vice presidential debate four years ago. The expectations are that Biden, a six-term senator, will win: Voters by a 19-point margin think he will prove to be the better debater.

In the new Post-ABC poll, majorities of conservatives and Republicans maintain that Palin has the necessary experience to step in as president, though those numbers are also down somewhat from early last month.

But a third of independent voters now indicate they are less likely to support McCain because of Palin, compared with 20 percent who said so in an ABC poll a month ago. Palin now repels more independents than she attracts to McCain. The share of independent women less apt to support McCain because of the Palin pick has more than doubled to 34 percent, while the percentage more inclined to support him is down eight points.

White Catholics, another important group of swing voters, also are now more likely to say that Palin dampens their support for McCain.

Still, nearly half of both white Catholics and independents said she does not affect their votes. Even more, about six in 10, said Obama's pick of Biden did not change their chances of voting Democratic.

The history of vice presidential picks suggests they are rarely consequential, and in a July Post-ABC poll, the nominees' choice for No. 2 was last on a list of 17 items voters said might sway their decisions.

The reaction to Palin, however, has been uncharacteristically strong.

Nearly three in 10 independent women have intensely unfavorable opinions of her, more than twice the proportion holding such views of Biden. And a majority of Democratic women now have "strongly unfavorable" views of Palin, up sharply from just after she accepted the nomination.

Among all voters, 29 percent have "strongly favorable" views, and an exactly offsetting number hold intensely negative ones. Attitudes toward Biden are more subdued.

Overall, 51 percent of voters view Palin favorably; for Biden, that number is a bit higher at 57 percent.

The vice presidential hopefuls run about evenly among all voters and among independents on the question of whether they "understand the problems of people like you." That is an important factor for the GOP ticket, as McCain continues to trail Obama as the candidate more in tune with the financial problems Americans face.

White married women are particularly likely to see Palin as in touch, as three-quarters said she understands their concerns. At the same time, a majority of such women do not think Palin has enough experience to be a good president. (White married women support the GOP ticket by a 20-point margin.)

Palin runs far behind Biden on another important attribute: About three-quarters of those surveyed said he understands complex issues, compared with 46 percent who said so of her.

On the eve of the presidential election in 2000, 76 percent said Al Gore had a solid grasp of hard issues; 60 percent said so of George W. Bush.

Despite Palin's slip in public assessments, the boost she has provided among some core segments of the GOP base has not faded. Enthusiasm for McCain's candidacy among Republicans, conservatives and white evangelical Protestants climbed sharply after the party's convention in St. Paul, Minn., where Palin made her debut, and it has held relatively steady since.

But even within these Republican strongholds, questions about Palin's experience are fairly common. About four in 10 conservatives and white evangelical Protestants, three in 10 Republicans and a quarter of GOP women said she does not have the necessary experience.

The Post-ABC poll was conducted by telephone Sept. 27 to 29 among a random sample of adults nationally, including interviews with 1,070 registered voters. The results have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points. Error margins for subgroups are higher.

Palin may end up being a huge mistake for McCain afterall.

[Honorable Mention]

I feel like a special needs child after listening to Palin. She managed to drop soccer moms not even five minutes into the debate and tried to manipulate every question so she could simply work in her blatantly memorized, wholesale talking points.

Biden ran circles around her. Yeah, I disagreed with a bunch of what he said but at least he could articulate his position. I almost wish he'd concluded with "Put that in your pipe and smoke it."

[Falkenhayn]

Well, they're feeling the pinch. McCain/Palin '08 pulled out of Michigain today, according to Politico.

[Medic]

Fuck, I didn't catch just what poll Keith Olbermann referenced (whether it was an MSNBC poll or anything other than that) but in a question on the respective VP candidates knowledge of the issues, Palin increased from %30-some percent to 66 as a result of this debate, something which initially shocked me.

Biden though jumped from %60 to NINETY-EIGHT. 98!

"You can't get much better than that." -- Keith Olbermann - 2 Oct 08

[Aratech]

Well, they're feeling the pinch. McCain/Palin '08 pulled out of Michigain today, according to Politico.

Not to sound overly optimistic, but some polls put up by Red indicated that the GOP's hold on Texas and a couple of other keep GOP states have also weakened. Not nearly enough to flip them, but the fact that there is anything other than toeing the party line there is surprising.


Also: Brungardt, is there a way to get a streaming of Olbermann? Or, lacking cable, am I going to have to wait until someone stick's him up on youtube?

[Lord Poe]

I was disappointed. I didn't see a smashing victory for Biden, and I can't believe Palin got away with he folksy "oh gee" bullshit in a serious debate. He was FAR too congenial; Palin needed to be fucking slam dunked. And Biden chocked up? WTF was that? If anything, I thought Palin would pull that one out of her ass.

Biden should have said straight out, "Excuse me, but didn't they tell you this was a serious debate?" Christ, this was painful to watch. If I wanted to see an infomercial for Alaska, I would have tuned in to the Travel Channel. Goddamn, I hope Obama is at least a bit "stern" with McCain on Oct. 7th. The time for glad-handing is over.

The only consolation I could think of as I watched this was realizing that there must be a hundred interracial porn "cum on her glasses" videos in the works.

[Medic]

Well, they're feeling the pinch. McCain/Palin '08 pulled out of Michigain today, according to Politico.

Not to sound overly optimistic, but some polls put up by Red indicated that the GOP's hold on Texas and a couple of other keep GOP states have also weakened. Not nearly enough to flip them, but the fact that there is anything other than toeing the party line there is surprising.


Also: Brungardt, is there a way to get a streaming of Olbermann? Or, lacking cable, am I going to have to wait until someone stick's him up on youtube?

Hehe, sorry to tempt you so, but probably, yeah. As you probably know, Crooksandliars.com tends to post a lot of Countdown material anyway, so keep an eye on them in the next 2 days. They're usually good at posting stuff promptly if it's interesting.

I didn't record it myself either. (cause I uninstalled my on-board TV card on my laptop because I found out the drivers were 7 gigs! I got a USB TV>computer card and the drivers are only a few hundred MB's. The drawback is, this thing has better features but recording's buggy at the moment)

[Nephtys]

I was watching it with a friend, and we were joking about possible drinking game or bingo sorts of phraises to look out for. We plotted a few out beforehand, then added some later.

'Deregulation'
'Surge'
'Wall Street to Main Street'
'Energy State' (real big)
Personal Anecdote referring to Alaska (lots)
Weird palsies/gestures
'Quagmire' (which didn't come up)
'Tax and Spend' (which didn't come up)
'Maverick' (big one)

[The Kernel]

I was disappointed. I didn't see a smashing victory for Biden, and I can't believe Palin got away with he folksy "oh gee" bullshit in a serious debate. He was FAR too congenial; Palin needed to be fucking slam dunked.

I disagree. MCCAIN needed to be slam dunked, which I think Biden did. He focused the argument on him while Palin was busy talking about herself.

And Biden chocked up? WTF was that? If anything, I thought Palin would pull that one out of her ass.

Biden was talking about the death of his wife and daughter, as well as the severe injury of his sons. I got pretty choked up just listening to that, and I thought it was very tasteful, genuine and not designed to play on people's emotions.

Biden should have said straight out, "Excuse me, but didn't they tell you this was a serious debate?" Christ, this was painful to watch. If I wanted to see an infomercial for Alaska, I would have tuned in to the Travel Channel. Goddamn, I hope Obama is at least a bit "stern" with McCain on Oct. 7th. The time for glad-handing is over.

The only consolation I could think of as I watched this was realizing that there must be a hundred interracial porn "cum on her glasses" videos in the works.

Biden didn't want to come off as a bully and really attacking Palin would have been playing her game. Instead he kept her off balance by blasting McCain and she didn't know how to respond to it.

[Honorable Mention]

I was watching it with a friend, and we were joking about possible drinking game or bingo sorts of phraises to look out for. We plotted a few out beforehand, then added some later.

'Deregulation'
'Surge'
'Wall Street to Main Street'
'Energy State' (real big)
Personal Anecdote referring to Alaska (lots)
Weird palsies/gestures
'Quagmire' (which didn't come up)
'Tax and Spend' (which didn't come up)
'Maverick' (big one)

We had a few others:

- Palin mentioning any of her children
- "Reagan"
- "Corporate greed"
- "Orgy of spending" which, regrettably, never came up

[Havok]

Just for the sake of the debates, I wish Obama could bring in Clinton as like a relief pitcher. I'm sick of the whole gender card even being alluded to.

[Cyborg Stan]

Watched the debate, now picking through the transcripts and summarizing, with a focus on how each side uses specific examples. Provided I finish, I'll later on use this as a basis of comparing arguments and how each one was countered. But damn, this takes a bit of time.

Q - Bailout Bill and Dealings - Best or Worst of Washington?
B - Neither. Refocused on it being the result of the worst economic policies though, then gave specifics on what to do. (Specifics - Gave 4 points on what to do)
P - Folksy meandering. Paint McCain as warning it would be bad, Senate's bad. McCain's a maverick. (Specific - McCain suspending campaign)

Q - What VP would do to reduce polarization.
B - Brought up record. Kept short, since he wanted to focus on an eariler issue. (Specifics - violence against women, 100k police officers, genocide in Bosnia)
B - Point : McCain is out of touch with economy.
-Comment "Fundamentals of our economy is strong", crisis hours later (Specifics - gave approximate dates and times, 2 saying economy is strong followed by economic crisis.
P - Counter - "fundamental of economy=strong" was talking about workers (Does this count as a specific?)
P - Back to previous question. Brought up governer's record, McCain's. Attacked Obama's record. (Specific - 96% on Obama's side)

Q - Who's at fault? Greedy lenders, homebuyers?
P - Greedy lenders. (Does the $300k vs $100k count as a specific?) Greed and corruption on Wall Street, will clean up. Then calls for people not live beyond means. (??? - Did she just contradict herself?)
B - Deregulation at fault, allowed this to happen. Wall Street ran wild. (Specific - Barack predicting this 2 years ago, McCain saying in December that he was surprised. McCain saying that he's always for cutting regulations in interview with WSJ. McCain calling on 20 seperate occasions to call for deregulation. McCain wanted to do for health care what he did for banking) Counters "don't go into debt" with people may have no choice. (Specific - Joey Danco at the gas station.) Middle-class needs relief.

Q - McCain and Health Care
P - First adresses tax increases.
P - Point - Agrees Americans need tax relief. Obama and Biden support tax increases. Private sector needs to keep more, Gov't more efficient and grow less. (Specific - 94 votes, tax increases for as low as $42k per year)
B - Counter - Charges not true. (It being a budget procedural vote, using her standards McCain would've voted for increases 447 times.) Palin did not answer actual question, McCain did support deregulation.
Q - Gives Palin a chance to counter.
P - Still on the tax thing. Record as mayor and governor. Declares she may not answer moderator, speaking to the people. (Specific - personal property tax, small business inventory tax, suspended state fuel tax.) Brought up McCain's record. (Specifics - Tobacco, Campaign fiance reform.)

Q - Why isn't taxes for those over $250k class warfare, why isn't 5 million more uninsured just picking on the poor?
B - Calls it 'fairness'. Middle class is struggling. Attack's McCain's plan. (Specific - 100 million families/households have no break in taxes. No one making less than $250k under Obama gets new taxes. (Sub-specific : capital gains, income, investment, any) 95% making less than $150k will get a tax break.) Economic machine of America is the middle class, middle class does well, even wealthy do well. McCain supports Corporate USA while doing little for middle cass USA. (Specific - McCain wants $300 billion in tax cuts for corporate America) Different value sets. (Specific - Even wealthy will pay no more than they did under Reagan.)
P - Barack's plan will jeopardize small businesses. (??? - MILLIONS of small businesses?) This results in fewer jobs and less productivity. Paying higher taxes is not patriotic, (Personal Comment - sacrifice is only going out in uniform to shoot someone?) saying Gov't is the problem is. Gov't lessen the tax burden, let private sector come in. (Specific - Obama will add nearly a trillion in new spending)

Q - Will you defend McCain's health plan?
P - Yes, it's good and detailed. (Specifics - $5k credit for families to buy their own. Budget neutral.) Barack's employs the gov't, which is bad. Erase state lines and promote competition, things will be affordable.
B - Cites places he grew up in, fairness. (Specifics - Giving $4 billion of Exxon Mobil while kids don't go to college isn't fair. 95% of small business owners make less than $250k, no new taxes for them.)
B - Re : Health Care. (Specifics - $5k will be paid by taxing health care through employers. $12k loss replaced by $5k credit, 20 million will be dropped.) Calls it "Ultimate Bridge to Nowhere"

Q - Because of economic crisis, what promises may be dropped?
B - We might slow down foreign assistance. Goes into what they wouldn't support to begin with. (Specifics - Not going with McCain's plan to tax cut over $250k which will be $130 billion this year alone. $300 billion cut for corporate America, $4 billion for ExxonMobil.) Must keep up new energy policy, new jobs, education as engine for future economy, affordable health care. Calls for an end to wasteful spending and tax dodges. (Specific - $100 billion off-shore tax dodge is unpatriotic.)
P - McCain doesn't say one thing to one group and turn around and say something else to another. (Personal Comment : Must... resist... oh, hell. Remember Letterman?) Goes back to energy plan. (Specific? - Obama voted for in '05, gave oil companies big tax breaks.) Said no to oil in Alaska. CEOs do as CEOs do. (Specific - Tillerson at Exxon and Mulva at ConocoPhillips don't like her.) Huge tax breaks aren't to large multination corps anymore. Governor of state has experitise in energy.
Q - Tries to get her back on track
P - No. (Specific - Only been VP candidate for 5 weeks. (Personal Comment : Thanks for reminding us.)) Will do good for American people, gov't back on track, greed and corruption on Wall Street. Plan needs oversight. McCain hasn't made promises he would not be able to keep. (Personal Comment : Bailout Bill... 1st Debate... argh.)
B - Obama voted for bill because it had real support for alternative energy. On seperate votes for tax breaks, Obama voted to eliminate, McCain did not. (Specific - If McCain wanted to eliminate them, why $4 billion taxcut for ExxonMobil when it made $600 billion since 2001?) Agrees with Governor's windfall profits tax idea, wants to extend to rest of America. (Specific - $1000 to Americans like she did to Alaskans.) McCain will not support windfall profits tax, reuses eariler specifc. Hopes Palin can convince McCain.

TO BE CONT..

It's a crude text at the moment, and incomplete, but I see a huge if not unexpected difference between the two. Now, sleep.

[SpacedTeddyBear]

My views on Biden just about reflects everyone else's here. I basically jumped up and screamed " Hellz ya!" when Biden demolished McCain's health credits bull shit. She totally lost composure when Biden was finished raping McCain's policy on Iraq and Afghanistan. She didn't simply go back to Republitard talking points as she did with environment and taxes. The calm in her voice was exchanged with a twinge of bitterness, knowing that she's failing epically on that issue.

[Mr Bean]

WHAT WARS Sarah? What Wars has John McCain WON?
This night will be remeber as the night Joe Biden pissed away a golden chance to create a sound-byte that would be played non-stop. All he had to do was break in and ask her that single question, What Wars has John McCain won? I'm interested to know Sarah.

She had no answer to that, I know she had no goddamn response to that and the bumbling, stumbling non-answer she would have given would have destroyed her, but no... ol' Joe did not ask, and the chance was missed.

[RedImperator]

WHAT WARS Sarah? What Wars has John McCain WON?
This night will be remeber as the night Joe Biden pissed away a golden chance to create a sound-byte that would be played non-stop. All he had to do was break in and ask her that single question, What Wars has John McCain won? I'm interested to know Sarah.

She had no answer to that, I know she had no goddamn response to that and the bumbling, stumbling non-answer she would have given would have destroyed her, but no... ol' Joe did not ask, and the chance was missed.

What? Are you kidding? No. That would have gotten this response: "He's won in Iraq, Senator. He supported the surge, and now we're winning. If you and Senator Obama had gotten your way, we would have cut and run and lost." You don't think she had a ready-made soundbite if Biden took that bait?

[Darth Wong]

Palin stuck to her coached talking points. I felt like screaming at the TV when Biden passed up opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to go after her bullshit. He did go after certain things, but he really needed to go after that "heartland" bullshit by pointing out that a federal government has to look out for the interests of all Americans, not just one particular region or subculture. The country needs a government which looks out for everyone's interests, not just those that they perceive to be worthy. Where does Palin get off talking about "bipartisanship" when she can't even get over her prejudice about half of all the American people, never mind the government?

And where does she get off bragging continuously about "the surge" when its most effective component was to simply bribe the Sunni insurgents who gave them so much trouble? I was glad to see him finally go after that "maverick" bullshit, after Palin had hung herself by using it so many times that even a casual viewer had to notice the crutch. But she repeatedly ignored questions in order to say "I would rather talk about ..." one of her talking points, and it would have been nice to see Biden point that out. This is not a person who answers questions; she prefers to segue to a talking point, and that's just George W. Bush redux.

And how about that energy plan of hers, where she brags that she got an oil pipeline built even though it hasn't actually been built, and in order to build it, they need to go through Canada? Half of that fucking pipeline goes through Canada. How many Canadian government officials did she speak to? How many First Nations representatives did she speak to, since their approval is crucial to the deal? She brags that she has foreign policy experience because she can see Russia; how has she demonstrated those foreign policy abilities in dealing with Canada, which is right next door to the entire goddamned United States and which she needs to deal with in order to get that pipeline built? Is that a foretaste of the prowess she will bring to foreign relations? Letting oil companies and lawyers do the negotiating and make the decisions?

[Max]

Well, something I should have expected. Different sources are going after the moderator for being impartial. Apparently she has a book out about Obama. So, of course, she can't possibly be impartial during the debate. I guess I missed the part where she asked the candidates completely different and uneven questions...

[Mr Bean]

WHAT WARS Sarah? What Wars has John McCain WON?
This night will be remeber as the night Joe Biden pissed away a golden chance to create a sound-byte that would be played non-stop. All he had to do was break in and ask her that single question, What Wars has John McCain won? I'm interested to know Sarah.

She had no answer to that, I know she had no goddamn response to that and the bumbling, stumbling non-answer she would have given would have destroyed her, but no... ol' Joe did not ask, and the chance was missed.

What? Are you kidding? No. That would have gotten this response: "He's won in Iraq, Senator. He supported the surge, and now we're winning. If you and Senator Obama had gotten your way, we would have cut and run and lost." You don't think she had a ready-made soundbite if Biden took that bait?

Then you respond with the ready made response sound-bit and you get angry

Won? We've Won in Iraq? That's why two dozen people died in a sucide car bombing this week? We won? Is that what you call victory? When week after week year after year Americans Die, Iraqi's die, the violence goes on and on and on, you call that victory? People in Iraq are without critical basic supplies like clean drinking water and most residents are lucky to get an hour of eletricity a day, you call that victory?

Madam Governor if you think that's victory I hope to never see what you call defeat, Governor Palin I know I am speaking out of turn here but for the love of God, have you learned nothing from the past five years in Iraq? We've spent more time fighting to secure Iraq than it took to fight the second world war. And American's still die every week in Iraq five years later and you call that victory?

[Durandal]

This was basically a slaughterhouse. Biden eviscerated Palin on just about every question. Biden did a good job on keeping the focus on McCain's stance on the issues, didn't come off as antagonizing Palin at all and was a model statesman. The McCain camp would have to be reaching to accuse Biden of sexist behavior or to accuse the moderator of bias.

It was an honest debate, and not only did Joe Biden win on content, he came off looking like the more prepared, more knowledgeable candidate. I don't care how folksy Palin is or how stupid people think Americans are, we don't want our vice president winking at us like she's a cheap hooker or a used car salesman. And yes, Palin looked good. The shots of her from behind were stellar.

But I think she looked too good. She looked like the hot secretary, and she sounded like a total airhead. I'd put a dollar in her g-string, but I wouldn't punch a hole in her chad.

[Alyrium Denryle]

"Attractive"? Seriously? Like that has anything at all to do with VP qualifications. But I suppose when reality hates you, you take what you can. *shakes head*

At the risk of sounding really terrible, and straight (i am channeling you folks..)

She might be attractive, but she is also stupid and insane. When someone is faced with such an individual the prudent course of action is to fuck their brains out and say "i'll call you" and then never do so. One does NOT make such a person their long-term mistress (or in the case of the primary partners death) their girlfriend for at least 4 years.

[Ender]

I didn't watch it for the issues, there was never any real doubt there. This issue with Palin here was gonna be how she presented herself - she needed to look strong enough in contrast to the low bar she had previously set to keep the base engaged. If they felt enough doubts there wouldn't be a prayer for McCain, so she had to come off strong enough for them. So with that in mind I was more watching how they played to the masses rather then what they said. And I was really surprised. She got her ass kicked up and down the court on domestic issues (where as a governor she should have been strong), but it was clear she had been well prepared for foreign policy, which is supposed to be Biden's strong point. For most of the domestic stuff when Biden was talking she was looking down at her podium with a smug tight lipped smile on her face. It came off as weak, that she didn't have any counter, but she couldn't say anything, but was still convinced she was right. Basically, she looked like a snarky bitch. But when foreign policy came up she knew her talking points and kept going to them. She kept her head up, stuck to the script, and pissed Biden off so much you could keep hearing him sigh. I think she came off how she needed to come off for that part of the debate - she started really weak, but picked up steam as the night went on. I'm not sure how people will react to her non answers - a lot of times it was really clear she was stumbling and was trying not to actually debate so much as recite talking points. For example, the "I'm not answering your questions, I'm gonna talk straight to the people" could go either way. Obviously for those already affirmed it is laid out, but I don't know about independents. Also, when she tried to be folksy a lot of the time she was throwing out small talk passive aggressive "fuck you"s. Again, not sure how those will play. To me it really re-enforced the "smug bitch" thing she was rocking, and to the die hard 26% it will sell, but the independents and the bizarre 24% who hate Bush but like McCain I don't know. Its hard to see people putting that ahead of food on the table now, and Biden hammered hard at that, and played well when he did so. On economics he came solidly to the table and came off as a statesman who knew what to do.

Just my drunken 2 cents.

[Sriad]

I was disappointed. I didn't see a smashing victory for Biden, and I can't believe Palin got away with he folksy "oh gee" bullshit in a serious debate. He was FAR too congenial; Palin needed to be fucking slam dunked. And Biden chocked up? WTF was that? If anything, I thought Palin would pull that one out of her ass.

Biden should have said straight out, "Excuse me, but didn't they tell you this was a serious debate?" Christ, this was painful to watch. If I wanted to see an infomercial for Alaska, I would have tuned in to the Travel Channel. Goddamn, I hope Obama is at least a bit "stern" with McCain on Oct. 7th. The time for glad-handing is over.

The only consolation I could think of as I watched this was realizing that there must be a hundred interracial porn "cum on her glasses" videos in the works.

The American voting public (especially undecided centrists) are not SD.net. If Biden had thrashed her as thoroughly as he did McCain, if he'd called bullshit on every lie and misdirection she pushed, he would have seemed like a O'reilley-esque blowhard asshole and bully. It's sexist, but remember the swing Hillary's crocodile tears got her after Iowa? I would also have liked to see her rhetorically torn apart and left for the vultures, (or at least a little indignation after her "I won't answer the questions" bullshit) but it's easy to go too far and alienate the fence-sitters. The last thing the Obama campaign needs is for Big Mean Biden to make the Poor Everywoman Hockeymom cry on national tv.

[Tribun]

You want a laugh?

Drudge poll; who won:
Palin 72% Biden 26%

Of course it's no wonder that this is a Republitard site.

CBS is better and realistic, though I'm still a little disappointed:

CBS poll; who won:
46% Biden, 21% Palin, 33% draw