Palin Discussion [split]

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SirNitram
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Post by SirNitram »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Aren't many of Hillary's supporters the feminist pro-choice type? How are they going to bite Palin then?
They won't. This is basically the problem in a nutshell:

The vast majority, according to polls, of Hillary supporters are now with Obama.

The media prefers a 'tight race' where 'anything can happen', and painting the Democrats as divided. They find the twelve PUMAs who shriek constantly and give them gobs of airtime.

McCain, who lives in the media bubble because he admits they're his 'base', buys it hook line and sinker.

McCain, being a misogynist scumbag, concludes that woman are too stupid to care about positions, so he grabs Palin to net him Hillary Supporters(Who won't go because Palin is pretty much devoid of positions, experience, and is loaded down with scandal), and fundies(Who will divide because a woman's place is in the home.).

Media openly salivates because this means the DEMS ARE DIVIDED!
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Post by RedImperator »

Palin is popular among young conservative men because she shares their positions and they don't have the same hangups about women in political office that old conservative men do. I don't think it's anything more complicated than that. She's attractive and that doesn't hurt, but if she were pro-choice and anti-gun, they'd be howling just as loud as they would if she were a man.
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Post by Ender »

Apparently her church has ties to Joel's Army.

If general policy set out by the GOP of late wasn't enough to make your butthole pucker, the fact that someone tied to a group that calls for overt military action to bring about Armageddon would be a heartbeat (a very old, very weak heatbeat at that) away from the nuclear football should really send up warning signs.
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Post by SirNitram »

Ender wrote:Apparently her church has ties to Joel's Army.

If general policy set out by the GOP of late wasn't enough to make your butthole pucker, the fact that someone tied to a group that calls for overt military action to bring about Armageddon would be a heartbeat (a very old, very weak heatbeat at that) away from the nuclear football should really send up warning signs.
Assembly Of God church promoting not just Joel's Army, but cell churches.

Never heard or been to a cell church? Go read 'Jesus Made Me Puke', the Rolling Stone article that went up in SLAM. Take the leader.. Get five people he administratrates.. Each has five beneath him.. If this sounds like Amway, Multi-Level Marketing, or those chain letters? It's the same model. If you think about it, no 'leader' gets his position until he's vetted all the way up, and no leader has more than five people under him directly. This means very rigid control is possible.. And generally plays out.

Throw in the outrageously deceptive 'Feminists For Life' group(Standard template Fundie anti-choice group, right with the Pregnancy Crisis Centres to scream propaganda at you, pushing the lie you can get PTSD from having an abortion, encouraging any mother to do her job as raising and making babies.). Oh, did I mention their particular Crisis Centres do the hard-sell on coming to live in a Halfway House run by the same churches, if you're pregnant? Yea, interesting the number of people who enter such and wind up having to sign the kid over for adoption because of the money issues.

Then there's Campus Crusade, whom I will never trust as far as I can throw one of their buildings.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Ugh, Campus Crusade. People fell all over this kid at UF who got hit by a car while he was going to distribute flyers and shit for Campus Crusade, so you get the paper subtext of him as a wonderful martyr. The rub? He was a stalker and physically and emotionally abusive boyfriend to a friend of mine. Oh but he loved Jesus.
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Post by Aratech »

Ender wrote:Apparently her church has ties to Joel's Army.

If general policy set out by the GOP of late wasn't enough to make your butthole pucker, the fact that someone tied to a group that calls for overt military action to bring about Armageddon would be a heartbeat (a very old, very weak heatbeat at that) away from the nuclear football should really send up warning signs.
Details, if I may ask? A few people I know are wobbling on whether or not to vote for McCain or not. This could be what shoves them decidedly into Obama territory.
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Post by SirNitram »

Aratech wrote:
Ender wrote:Apparently her church has ties to Joel's Army.

If general policy set out by the GOP of late wasn't enough to make your butthole pucker, the fact that someone tied to a group that calls for overt military action to bring about Armageddon would be a heartbeat (a very old, very weak heatbeat at that) away from the nuclear football should really send up warning signs.
Details, if I may ask? A few people I know are wobbling on whether or not to vote for McCain or not. This could be what shoves them decidedly into Obama territory.
Southern Poverty Law Centre has the basics on Joel's Army types. Link
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Post by Aratech »

SirNitram wrote:
Aratech wrote:
Ender wrote:Apparently her church has ties to Joel's Army.

If general policy set out by the GOP of late wasn't enough to make your butthole pucker, the fact that someone tied to a group that calls for overt military action to bring about Armageddon would be a heartbeat (a very old, very weak heatbeat at that) away from the nuclear football should really send up warning signs.
Details, if I may ask? A few people I know are wobbling on whether or not to vote for McCain or not. This could be what shoves them decidedly into Obama territory.
Southern Poverty Law Centre has the basics on Joel's Army types. Link
Son of a....

I am now genuinely worried about this woman being in the oval office. Lack of experience, access to a couple hundred megatons worth of firepower, and a really itchy trigger finger do no a good combination make...
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Post by Edi »

One thing that has annoyed the fuck out of me in this thread is people using acronyms without them fucking once being written out in the thread. Easy enough to google something like NIMBY, but try fucking googling PUMA and the first dozen hits you get are to Puma sportswear, with something named Party Unity My Ass coming somewhere far behind with all the other links. So does it mean that in the context of this thread, or something else?

Tip of the day: Even if we are fluent to the point of almost native understanding, ESL (English as a Second Language) speakers are not necessarily that fluent in all areas of the language and are not necessarily conversant with all possible acronyms. So if your acronyms are something that also stand for something else common, please write them out at least once so that they aren't a fucking pain in the ass.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Yes, PUMA in this context = Party Unity My Ass, which is some sort of coalition of disillusioned Clinton supporters. They're often ascribed power and political influence FAR above what they actually have demonstrated to have.
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Post by SirNitram »

Unconfirmed as yet, but Andrew Halcro, former two-term Alaskan State Rep and gubernatorial candidate, always a Republican, is reporting.. Well.. Link
The campaign of John McCain has sent a staff of eight people into Alaska to conduct background checks and vetting on Governor Sarah Palin.

Word is they have have eight rooms reserved at a Wasilla hotel.
I'd be skeptical.. Except that no one seems to have noticed McCain's advance team entering the state, no one involved in the investigations against Palin heard squat, and it largely seems that aside from a few events that both were at, McCain and Palin only met twice before the final interview Thursday night.
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Post by Cecelia5578 »

SirNitram wrote:Unconfirmed as yet, but Andrew Halcro, former two-term Alaskan State Rep and gubernatorial candidate, always a Republican, is reporting.. Well.. Link
The campaign of John McCain has sent a staff of eight people into Alaska to conduct background checks and vetting on Governor Sarah Palin.

Word is they have have eight rooms reserved at a Wasilla hotel.
I'd be skeptical.. Except that no one seems to have noticed McCain's advance team entering the state, no one involved in the investigations against Palin heard squat, and it largely seems that aside from a few events that both were at, McCain and Palin only met twice before the final interview Thursday night.
Isn't vetting a process you do before you make a pick? Way to go Mc Cain!
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Post by The Kernel »

MRDOD wrote:Polls are in on Sarah Palin. (Rassmussen)

Women appear to have a 6-point gap on thinking Palin was a good choice compared to men, and a 3-point lead on thinking she was a bad choice, for a total of 9% difference.
Summary?: Men appear to think Palin was a better choice than Women by a good margin.
I don't know why this is a shock to anyone. The disastrous pick of Ferraro should have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that women are not interested in voting for a ticket merely because one of the candidates has a vagina. In case anyone has forgotten, women overwhelmingly broke for Reagan in '84 to the tune of 12%.

Granted the Mondale/Ferraro ticket had a lot of other issues, but it's pretty clear that women in the US aren't interested in being pandered to like this.
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Post by Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi »

I think the male support for Palin is normal, it's just that the pick backfired among women. They might have seen McCain picking a half-term governor from one of the least-populated states with no apparent interest in national politics until recently in a perceived attempt to get their vote as condescending.
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:I think the male support for Palin is normal, it's just that the pick backfired among women. They might have seen McCain picking a half-term governor from one of the least-populated states with no apparent interest in national politics until recently in a perceived attempt to get their vote as condescending.
More likely the only undecided women left are those who are undecided on matters of ideology (and someone further to the right than McCain isn't reassuring) and those who are still pissed at the "hillary snub" and those folks are dyed in the wool democrats and are not about to support a creationism promoting anti-intellectual half term governor.
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Post by SirNitram »

WALLACE: Let’s start with your choice of running mate. Of all the people you could have chosen, all the Republican leaders you’ve known for years. Straight talk, can you honestly say that Sarah Palin is the best person to put a heartbeat away from the presidency?

McCAIN: Oh yeah. She’s a…she’s a partner and a soulmate. [laughs] She’s…she’s a reformer. I don’t particularly enjoy the label “maverick,” but when somebody takes on the old bulls in her own party, runs against an incumbent governor of her own party, stands up against the oil and gas interests…I mean, they really are so vital to the economy of her…of the state of Alaska. I mean, it’s remarkable. It’s a remarkable person and I’ve watched her record and I’ve watched her for many, many years as she implemented ethics and lobbying reforms. I mean, she led on it; she didn’t just vote for it. She led it, I’ve seen her…take on her own party. Look, one thing I know is when you take on your own party in Washington, you pay a price for it. You do. You pay a price for it.
Need to stop watching clips of Fox News... 'Partner and Soulmate'. Okay, this is officially getting Creepy. Also, 'I don't enjoy the label Maverick'? That's good, you're sufficiently Bush's sidekick for that to wear off relatively fast...
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

Didn't someone mention that the wikipedia article about her detailing the problems with her mayorship was changed to eliminate it? It has apparently made the New York Times:
IN the 24 hours before the McCain campaign put the finishing touches on its surprise announcement Friday that Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska would be the Republican vice presidential candidate, one Wikipedia user was putting the finishing touches on her biography on the site.

Beginning at 2 a.m Eastern time on Thursday, a Wikipedia user with the name YoungTrigg began an overhaul of the article, adding compelling stories about her upbringing, including that “she earned the nickname ‘Sarah Barracuda’ because of her intense play” as point guard for her high school basketball team and that she and her father “would sometimes wake at 3 a.m. to hunt moose before school.”

Many details were culled from, and footnoted to, the book “Sarah: How a Hockey Mom Turned Alaska’s Political Establishment on Its Ear,” by Kaylene Johnson.

Soon enough, YoungTrigg pivoted from the biographical to the political, adding that Ms. Palin had high approval ratings as governor and that, as mayor, she had “kept her campaign promises, reducing her own salary, as well as reducing property taxes 60 percent.”

As governor, YoungTrigg wrote, her “tenure is noted for her willingness to take on oil companies” and that she has been called “a ‘politician of eye-popping integrity.’ ” Both of those statements were attributed to a profile in the conservative Weekly Standard magazine.

In total, YoungTrigg — whose user name is a reference to Ms. Palin’s infant son, Trig — made 30 “edits” to the article, all positive and largely unnoticed, since they came at a time when few were discussing her as a possible running mate of Senator John McCain’s.

The coincidence of the user’s name, and the sudden spurt of activity just before news broke of Mr. McCain’s choice, has raised suspicions that YoungTrigg was a campaign operative tasked to make sure that her Wikipedia article was ready for prime time, much as handlers have been assigned to do the same for the candidate.

While ethically suspect, the idea that a politician would try to shape her Wikipedia article shouldn’t come as a surprise. In modern politics, where the struggle is to “define” yourself before your opponent “defines” you, Wikipedia has become an important part of political strategy. When news breaks, and people plug a name into a search engine to find out more, invariably Wikipedia is the first result they click through to; it is where first impressions are made.

The daily page view totals for even well-known candidates are striking. For example, according to a site that tracks the traffic to Wikipedia, the John McCain article had 645,000 page views in June. That month, Barack Obama had 1.35 million page views. Henrik Abelsson, who tracks the traffic, said that on Friday there were 2.4 million page views for Gov. Palin’s Wikipedia article.

Last year, a graduate student, Virgil Griffith, created a clever Web site, Wiki- Scanner, that made it easy to detect where anonymous editors of Wikipedia were accessing the site. In the process, companies, government agencies and, yes, politicians were caught in the act of spiffing up their Wikipedia entries, even as many assumed that anonymity would make them safe. (Wikipedia, incredibly and mercilessly, keeps a record of every change made to every article.)

YoungTrigg made the last edit Friday morning, hours before the news of the Palin selection became official. But in the wee hours the day before, when no one was really paying attention, YoungTrigg did contact other Wikipedians, who were initially impressed by the rapid improvements to the article.

YoungTrigg was given a virtual unit of praise, the Barnstar, for the effort. When another Wikipedia contributor asked gently if YoungTrigg could include page numbers to his footnotes from “Sarah,” YoungTrigg wrote back excitedly: “Thank you! I’m afraid I didn’t use the page numbers when I did the edits, so I don’t have them now. The book has a pretty good index, though, and I can look something up if anything I added was controversial. I apologize if I misunderstood the format.”

Also, YoungTrigg reached out to an anonymous editor who had changed the Palin article on Thursday night, without any evidence, to say that she was Mr. McCain’s choice. In a public note to the anonymous editor, YoungTrigg wrote: “Where did you hear that Palin was the VP nominee? I can’t find anything online.”

Whether this pokes a hole in the idea that YoungTrigg had inside information, or rather confirms that the user had an unusually acute interest in whether the news had leaked out, is hard to tell.

Or maybe it was dumb luck. When news outlets like National Public Radio and Washingtonpost.com reported on the editing on Friday, they classified it as another example of Wikipedia’s mysterious ability to predict about-to-break news, if we only knew to look there. When the liberal Web site Daily Kos, enmeshed in the rough-and-tumble of the presidential election, picked up on the news in a highly read post, commenters were quick to raise the specter of dirty tricks.

Oddly enough, as YoungTrigg began to tackle editing the Palin article, another editor happened to be working there too. This user, Ferrylodge, a lawyer who has contributed to Wikipedia for years and describes himself as a independent-minded Republican, was interested in examining the accusations that Ms. Palin had used her position to get a trooper dismissed for personal reasons.

He ended up editing YoungTrigg’s edits, toning down entries that seemed biased, removing material that seemed extraneous, like the exact unit that Ms. Palin’s son is serving in that will be going to Iraq. “A lot of stuff was useful — like citing a biography of her,” he said in a telephone interview, speaking under condition of anonymity to avoid tipping off his clients that he spends time on Wikipedia. “Some was questionable stuff.” In general, he said, the editing “indicates a very close familiarity with Governor Palin.”

The lawyer said that when YoungTrigg linked to government documents on a government Web site related to the trooper case, it seemed like this editor was not exactly a political naïf.

But, he says, this person may be Wikipedically naïve. “They didn’t quite know what they were getting into — they got a lot of conflict-of-interest notes,” he said. And much of that original, flattering material has been overwritten.

By Sunday morning, YoungTrigg came forward, still anonymous, on his or her Wikipedia user page: “It’s not true that ‘all of my edits made Palin look better.’ ”

The user narrowed down YoungTrigg’s identity: “I am not Sarah Palin. I think it is obvious that I am not the five-month-old Trig Paxson Van Palin. I am not a member of Sarah Palin’s family, or even Michael Palin’s family.”

YoungTrigg was a user name picked for this task; for other editing, he or she chooses other names: “I will acknowledge that I volunteer for the McCain campaign, one of thousands of people nationwide who are working to elect the best candidate for the job. Palin was not the nominee when I made my edits, though I am certainly excited about the selection. I don’t believe I have a conflict of interest problem.”

That said, nobody will be hearing from YoungTrigg again anytime soon. On the bottom was a black-bordered box surrounding the word “retired.”
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

Two thoughts:

First the Wiki scrubbing is something that, as the articel mentions, is part of the new political reality. The ability to track who does the changes means that sudden mass changes can immediately raise suspicion. When politicians start figuring out that such tracking will only earn them more problems than leaving up an unscrubbed page I'm sure they will shift tacks. For now its a useful tool to see who is playing what kind of dirty pool.

Second, on my morning browsing the latest indication that Palin may not have been vetted is that she is apprently a past member of the "Alaka Independence Party" which advocates for Alaskan secession, revocation of federal ownership of Alaskan land, open exploitation of all land in Alaska. The current VP of the AIP has a quote that she was a member at some point prior to her job as mayor (96-02) before joing the Republican party. The video is here at starting at the 6 minute mark. There is also a video of her addressing the AIP convention from this year availablehere.

Now I don't know how fringy she really is but this should have been a GIANT red flag in any decent vetting operation. So beyond the fact that her recent remarks would seem to indicate some continued support for the AIP position it again makes one question whether McCain did ANY vetting on her at all.
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

First the Wiki scrubbing is something that, as the articel mentions, is part of the new political reality. The ability to track who does the changes means that sudden mass changes can immediately raise suspicion. When politicians start figuring out that such tracking will only earn them more problems than leaving up an unscrubbed page I'm sure they will shift tacks. For now its a useful tool to see who is playing what kind of dirty pool.
Eventually, they (hopefully) draw suspicion. I'm more worried that someone is going to put up either distorted and/or outright false biographical details to make someone look either good or bad, and someone in the print media or blogosphere will start spreading the good word. It could be shown to be false later, but in the mean time it would have an effect kind of like the Obama =Unpatriotic Muslim e-mails. Worse if there actually was a kernel of reality in the claim, since then it might be picked up by the major media.
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Post by Ender »

THe 2006 Gubernatorial Questionnaire

Very interesting answers there. Does Alaska have an amendment in the state constitution banning gay marriage, or is she that ill informed?
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Post by Darksider »

I love the fact that she thinks the phrase "one nation, under god" was put in the pledge of allegiance by the founding fathers.

Shitty knowledge of history FTW!
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Post by Master of Ossus »

Ender wrote:Very interesting answers there. Does Alaska have an amendment in the state constitution banning gay marriage, or is she that ill informed?
Alaska State Constitution wrote:Article I, Section 25

§ 25. Marriage

To be valid or recognized in this State, a marriage may exist only between one man and one woman. [Amended 1998]
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Post by Aratech »

Darksider wrote:I love the fact that she thinks the phrase "one nation, under god" was put in the pledge of allegiance by the founding fathers.

Shitty knowledge of history FTW!
Does it make me a chauvinist pig to have this image of Ike rising from the grave, marching up to Alaska and smacking her over the head with a rolled up newspaper?
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Post by Uraniun235 »

Daily Kos suggests that Palin might be pretty friendly with Alaskan secessionists.
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SirNitram
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Post by SirNitram »

Second, on my morning browsing the latest indication that Palin may not have been vetted is that she is apprently a past member of the "Alaka Independence Party" which advocates for Alaskan secession, revocation of federal ownership of Alaskan land, open exploitation of all land in Alaska. The current VP of the AIP has a quote that she was a member at some point prior to her job as mayor (96-02) before joing the Republican party. The video is here at starting at the 6 minute mark. There is also a video of her addressing the AIP convention from this year availablehere.

Now I don't know how fringy she really is but this should have been a GIANT red flag in any decent vetting operation. So beyond the fact that her recent remarks would seem to indicate some continued support for the AIP position it again makes one question whether McCain did ANY vetting on her at all.
You think so?

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A CONCURRENT RESOLUTION PROPOSING THE DISSOLUTION OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IF CERTAIN CONDITIONS OCCUR
That's rather serious.. Especially since one of the conditions is any federal order regarding the confiscation of firearms from an individual.
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