Rant on the american people.

[Big Phil]

I can't speak for Canada, but on the eve of Iraq War there was a 500,000 people demonstration in London, and even now Tony Blair is being forced out of his position because of his stance on Iraq despite what is otherwise a good tenure as PM.

And there were protests here as well. What exactly does this prove?

The Russians put up with a commie dictatorship, but eventually they did overthrow the regime.

Bullshit. The Soviet system rotted to pieces. There was no popular uprising that overthrew the system... only a last gasp effort to retain power that was countered by "former" communists who saw the end was near.

Most people from other countries would probably not admit to foreigners that their country has problems, but in private they generally are aware of the problems even if they may not be able to do anything about it. Americans are generally not even capable of admitting to themselves that there's anything wrong with their country at all.

Wow! Talk about a massive generalization. You clearly don't know shit - most Americans I speak with (which is pretty much everybody I interact with on a daily basis) spent hours each day bitching about the problems with this country. I'm going to pull out an oldie but goody:

"How about a nice big cup of shut the fuck up? Think before you say something stupid."

The issue here is not which country is better, but the perception of most Americans that the US is heaven on Earth, and that everywhere else is a shithole unworthy of comparison. Even more to the point, because of this they see no need for change.

Maybe, maybe not... what does this have to do with the OP?

When most countries become fucked up, they do not fuck up the rest of the world. The same cannot be said for America. A great America worthy of respect is something beneficial for the world as a whole. Unfortunately, the US is sliding in the other direction.

You've got a good point here. We are the biggest kid on the block, and we can do a shitload of harm without meaning to.

[Big Phil]

Not everyone in the world has the same flaws as Americans have, I'm sorry to say.

No, they just have different flaws.

The healthcare system elsewhere may be better; education in other countries may be superior; public transportation in other countries might be more accessible. In spite of all of these problems, there's nowhere else in the world I'd rather live. I don't really care if the US is a better place to live than Denmark, or if Ireland is superior to Bulgaria, or if Italy is better than Spain. What this has turned into, however, is a dick waving contest to see whose healthcare/education/transportation is better, and that's just stupid.

In other words, you know that the Emperor Has No Clothes, you just don't want anyone to say it.

I already pointed out all of the problems we have, and why they're irrelevant to the OP. Your dick isn't getting any bigger because you can't get off the topic and return to the OP.

Speaking as an American, I'm not ashamed of my country, and I don't think it sucks. If the rest of the world thinks we suck and are a bunch of assholes, that's worrisome, but I don't feel the need to apologize for the mistakes this country has made over the years, and that's essentially what the first post in this thread was. I don't feel a need to apologize because our democracy is messy, and people make stupid decisions, and things aren't better than they could be.

Why not? Don't you feel ashamed when people debase what America should be? Don't you owe your neighbor an apology when your kid breaks his windows with a baseball?

False analogy. When people fuck up this country I get pissed, and do something to change it... by voting, by speaking with my wallet, by writing letters, etc. I don't owe Finland an apology; if the President wants to offer one, that's his business, but I'm a private citizen.

Mike, SirNitram, other foreigners living here or not, if you all think America sucks that's your business. The constant America-bashing on this board gets a little old, and it doesn't really have a point. Most Americans aren't going to apologize or change their lifestyle because the French, Dutch, Germans, Canadians, or Mexicans think they're assholes, and if we did, THEN I'd feel ashamed of our country.

In other words, you think it's something to be proud of that Americans don't care about foreigners.

There's a huge different between NOT making political or lifestyle decisions based on how it will affect public opinion of people in Europe, and not caring about foreigners. Learn to understand the distiction... it's not really all that fine.

When will people realize that you don't have to think America is great to be a patriot? I care about America because it is a part of my identity, not because I think it kicks everyone else's ass; in spite of what my country is and not because of it.

I don't recall me or anybody on this board saying that you have to think America is great to be a patriot. I am saying, however, that there is something fundamentally wrong with a person who hates his country and spends his time telling everybody how terrible it is. It's analogous to people who are in abusive relationships, spend all their time bitching about how their boyfriend/girlfriend beats them, but never get out.

[Big Phil]

I think one of the things that really bothers me about this entire thread is that it suggests that America isn't something worth defending or fighting for. I think America the idea is worth fighting for and defending; the current incarnation leaves something to be desired, but as Americans we should all fight to preserve the idea... the "Spirit of America" if you will.

All great civilizations ascend, decline, and then fall. Greece, Rome, England, France, Spain, Islam, China, etc., have all done it. The thing they all have in common is that at some point the people lose their faith in the civilization and are no longer will to fight to defend it or its ideals. It worries me that this is what's happening with Western Civilization - many Westerners spent all their time lamenting the terrible things their countries have done and suggest that the Western ideals aren't worth defending. I think there are many great things about Western civilization that are well worth defending, and I guess I view the incessant criticism of all things Western or American as the decline of Western Civilization, and I think that's a terrible thing.

[Darth Wong]

I think one of the things that really bothers me about this entire thread is that it suggests that America isn't something worth defending or fighting for.

You've got it ass-backwards. The thing people are attacking is the fact that the American people are not sticking up for the things that once made America great. In other words, they (some of whom are Americans themselves, in case you hadn't noticed) are complaining that the American people are not defending or fighting for America as the enlightened ideas of Washington and Jefferson; they are defending or fighting for America as the tribe of George W. Bush.

[Big Phil]

Sorry to all for four posts back to back, but I just read this and I think it's appropriate and on-topic. It suggests that not ALL Americans, are lazy, coddled, servile sons of bitches.

Hundreds of protesters rally against Bush in Seattle

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEATTLE -- Several hundred protesters rallied against President Bush here on Thursday, one of about 200 coordinated demonstrations around the country.

Protesters, organized by World Can't Wait-Drive Out the Bush Regime, cited a litany of complaints, including the conduct of the Iraq war and the botched federal response to Hurricane Katrina. They said Bush's recent signing of a bill authorizing tough detainee interrogation techniques amounts to legalizing torture.

Three protesters were arrested at a Capitol Hill park where the rally began for investigation of obstruction, resisting arrest, and - in the case of one - assault. Officers arrested a fourth person for possession of an illegal fixed-blade knife, Seattle Police spokeswoman Debra Brown said.

As marchers headed toward the federal building downtown, another person was arrested for investigation of unlawful possession of a firearm after being seen with a rifle wrapped in a blanket.

"They're still investigating to determine what that person was doing with the rifle," she said.

Protesters chanted, waved signs and wore costumes mocking administration officials. One woman dressed as a pageant queen with a sash that read, "I Miss America."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/642 ... otest.html

[Big Phil]

I think one of the things that really bothers me about this entire thread is that it suggests that America isn't something worth defending or fighting for.

You've got it ass-backwards. The thing people are attacking is the fact that the American people are not sticking up for the things that once made America great. In other words, they (some of whom are Americans themselves, in case you hadn't noticed) are complaining that the American people are not defending or fighting for America as the enlightened ideas of Washington and Jefferson; they are defending or fighting for America as the tribe of George W. Bush.

36% of Americans are doing exactly what you're saying. The rest of us can't wait until 2008 so we can vote the sons of bitches out of office.

[Drooling Iguana]

This thread started off as a rant about how Americans are lazy, coddled, and servile. That description could be applied to the people of every Western Democracy, and quite a few religious or fascist dictatorships around the world. Frankly, Canada and the UK are going right along with the Bush administration's foreign policy decisions.

Yes. Just look at all the Canadian troops in Iraq.

Other than a few protests here and there (hey, we've got those happening here as well), you don't see massive demonstrations and revolutions against the government. Does that make the British and Canadians, lazy, servile, and coddled? Or is that a criticism that can only be applied to Americans? The French have their own problems... are French people also lazy, servile and coddled? The Russians put up with a communist dictatorship for 64 years... does that make them lazy, servile, and coddled? The point I'm making is that this criticism can be applied to anybody and everybody.

Won't respond to this one as you make no actual points.

As far as criticism of public transportation, it's not really reasonable to compare the US to Europe. Some places in this country (New York, DC, Chicago) have excellent public transportation, comparable to that of London, Moscow, Paris, or Rome. Other places have lousy public transportation, usually because decision makers (elected by the people) decided to build roads instead of rails (although I don't hear too much bragging about the public transportation in suburban Europe). Here in the Seattle area bitching about public transportation is a sport... of course the same people who bitch about everybody driving by themselves or making decisions about public transportation wouldn't even think about getting on a train or bus... that's just for poor people!

Not sure what point you're trying to make here is. The sorry state of American public transporation shouldn't be held agains Americans because the American people wanted it that way?

The healthcare system elsewhere may be better; education in other countries may be superior; public transportation in other countries might be more accessible. In spite of all of these problems, there's nowhere else in the world I'd rather live.

Again, did you have a point to make here at all?

I don't really care if the US is a better place to live than Denmark, or if Ireland is superior to Bulgaria, or if Italy is better than Spain. What this has turned into, however, is a dick waving contest to see whose healthcare/education/transportation is better, and that's just stupid.

No dicks need to be waved. The facts are plain to all who are willing to look at the numbers.

Speaking as an American, I'm not ashamed of my country, and I don't think it sucks. If the rest of the world thinks we suck and are a bunch of assholes, that's worrisome, but I don't feel the need to apologize for the mistakes this country has made over the years, and that's essentially what the first post in this thread was. I don't feel a need to apologize because our democracy is messy, and people make stupid decisions, and things aren't better than they could be. Mike, SirNitram, other foreigners living here or not, if you all think America sucks that's your business. The constant America-bashing on this board gets a little old, and it doesn't really have a point. Most Americans aren't going to apologize or change their lifestyle because the French, Dutch, Germans, Canadians, or Mexicans think they're assholes, and if we did, THEN I'd feel ashamed of our country.

You'd be ashamed of your country for actually listening to criticism and attempting to improve itself?

[Ghost Rider]

I think one of the things that really bothers me about this entire thread is that it suggests that America isn't something worth defending or fighting for.

You've got it ass-backwards. The thing people are attacking is the fact that the American people are not sticking up for the things that once made America great. In other words, they (some of whom are Americans themselves, in case you hadn't noticed) are complaining that the American people are not defending or fighting for America as the enlightened ideas of Washington and Jefferson; they are defending or fighting for America as the tribe of George W. Bush.

36% of Americans are doing exactly what you're saying. The rest of us can't wait until 2008 so we can vote the sons of bitches out of office.

You don't see the truly sickening thought that Nixon and so many others did LESS and were thrown out, and we have to WAIT to 2008 to vote in a new regime?

Fuck, Washington was trying to crucify a man for lying that he recieved sex in office, but wonder chimp can go "Sorry, we lied about the war." and the vast majority of America goes "What can we do?"

This is what sickens me. Literally we spout off platitudes while the rest of the world looks at us like some misguided retard with a really large bat. At one time we represented a far better image, and it honestly saddens me that our best fucking hope awaits us one and half years later because the politicans that we voted are too fucking placid, or spineless or better still in AGREEMENT with the shit that has been done for the last six years.

[SirNitram]

36% of Americans are doing exactly what you're saying. The rest of us can't wait until 2008 so we can vote the sons of bitches out of office.

No, 36% think Bush is doing a fine ol' job.

You will find that there's alot more to this than just George Bush. And once he's gone and let to recede in the public eye, we'll be back here, because the same mistakes will be made. Why? No one in America gives enough of a fuck to stand up and fight, tooth and nail, for what this place was founded on. They're happy with it sliding into Fundie-Ville.

Want proof? Look no further than Barak Obama, so-called 'Rising Star' of the Democrats. The one who, instead of leading, whines and scolds the Dems for not leading the way against torture and other moral issues. The one who scolds the Democrats for not seeking the Fundie vote.

[Dennis Toy]

Sorry to all for four posts back to back, but I just read this and I think it's appropriate and on-topic. It suggests that not ALL Americans, are lazy, coddled, servile sons of bitches.


Quote:
Hundreds of protesters rally against Bush in Seattle

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEATTLE -- Several hundred protesters rallied against President Bush here on Thursday, one of about 200 coordinated demonstrations around the country.

Protesters, organized by World Can't Wait-Drive Out the Bush Regime, cited a litany of complaints, including the conduct of the Iraq war and the botched federal response to Hurricane Katrina. They said Bush's recent signing of a bill authorizing tough detainee interrogation techniques amounts to legalizing torture.

Three protesters were arrested at a Capitol Hill park where the rally began for investigation of obstruction, resisting arrest, and - in the case of one - assault. Officers arrested a fourth person for possession of an illegal fixed-blade knife, Seattle Police spokeswoman Debra Brown said.

As marchers headed toward the federal building downtown, another person was arrested for investigation of unlawful possession of a firearm after being seen with a rifle wrapped in a blanket.

"They're still investigating to determine what that person was doing with the rifle," she said.

Protesters chanted, waved signs and wore costumes mocking administration officials. One woman dressed as a pageant queen with a sash that read, "I Miss America."


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/642 ... otest.html

this actually is good some people are standing up. I was asking in this thread why aren't we getting the massive protests from the 74% of americans who hate Bush and Co like we did during the 70's when we knew Vietnam war was wrong?

I wasn't saying america as a whole was bad. This is still a great country, what i was saying is i am sick of the servility and the laziness of americans who want protection from the terrorists and not their liberty.

[Winston Blake]

I'm curious about something - the foreigners who complain about America, fine, go for it, I've no problem with it... although I don't think you really understand what it's like to live here unless you've actually lived here. It's not like I know what it's like to live in Europe based on a three week vacation...

People should treat America just as they'd treat any other country, that'd be fair, right?

Well did you grow up with, say, practically all French TV? Almost all French movies, set in French cities? How much French music do you have? Do you eat food at French fast food chains, and buy French brand clothing? Are you and your friends' computers all French? Your car? Is your nation's military made up of French hand-me-downs? Does news about French politics have almost as much priority in your newspapers and evening news shows as American politics? When you talk to others, do you find French words, spelling and pronunciation? Are 90% of celebrities you know of French stars of French movies? Does If 3,000 French people died in a terrorist attack, would it be a special feature or would every TV channel be converted to non-stop coverage of the events for days? Mine was for 9/11.

So yeah, imagine living in Frenchworld. Then imagine some French guy says *insert thick French accent* "I can't imagine what it's like in all those other countries. So obviously they mustn't know anything about France either, and are so arrogant for whining on and on about us letting Jacques Chirac coerce their goverments into supplying France with fresh babies to eat (read: soldiers)".

[K. A. Pital]

I guess I view the incessant criticism of all things Western or American as the decline of Western Civilization, and I think that's a terrible thing.

Equating America with the forbearer of "Western civilization" is exactly the lousy type of link the Bush Admin tries to employ.

"Don't you dare criticize America - the pillar of Western civilization!", etc. etc.

This is ridiculous. If I like something, I will criticize it to make it better, not destroy it. And the "Western civilization" is not a monolith that depends on turning America's population into mindless uncritical drones. There are dozens of countries in what is considered "Western civilization", and many do better than America.

If you actually bother to understand the position of the people here, what they want is for America to become better, not "America is not worth anything" idiocy - which is another type of subtle links that the Bush admin employs - "If you criticize America, you're with those who want to DESTROY it". Or, with the terrorists.

That is the rabid mentality of opression and idiocy, it makes people forced into mindless obedience.

I'm sure what most of the people here want is a powered - and powered to serve the people - and comfortable-for-life America, which looks as a great partner to developed and developing countries, not an America that adopted a jingoist neoimperialist "Big Brother" stance and ridicules even fellow democracies like Germany, France or Canada (don't believe it? read some of the rightist blogs), which do many things better than the U.S.

Perhaps such an America would be worth moving to. Worth supporting in war and peace. Worth trading with. More and more worth improving it.

[Morilore]

No, they just have different flaws.

Which makes them prime candidates to point out our flaws, since they have a perspective we do not.

I already pointed out all of the problems we have, and why they're irrelevant to the OP. Your dick isn't getting any bigger because you can't get off the topic and return to the OP.

The OP discussed an even more disturbing problem that you seem to refuse to acknowledge:

What happened to the people who protested and got themselved arrested and even hurt because they felt the Jim Crow laws were wrong? What happened to the people who protested and got themselved arrested or even shot because they felt the Vietnam war was wrong? What happened to "Go GET IT" attitude by the american people of the 80's( This was a slogan by Reagan who got this quote from the Rambo movies.) What happened to the country that defeated the USSR in the cold war and got a economic boom and great times from it?

The whole point is that America used to be a country that politicians didn't fuck around with, because they knew the people cared enough to fuck them up if they did. But knowadays Bush the Wonder Chimp basically abolishes habeus corpus and most people don't even know what's going on. The fact that Bush has a low approval rating is irrelevant, because when Nixon fucked up he actually had to resign - you know, before the next election.

False analogy. When people fuck up this country I get pissed, and do something to change it... by voting, by speaking with my wallet, by writing letters, etc. I don't owe Finland an apology; if the President wants to offer one, that's his business, but I'm a private citizen.

As a private citizen you and everyone else represent America to everyone you interact with who isn't an American.

There's a huge different between NOT making political or lifestyle decisions based on how it will affect public opinion of people in Europe, and not caring about foreigners. Learn to understand the distiction... it's not really all that fine.

You said this:

Most Americans aren't going to apologize or change their lifestyle because the French, Dutch, Germans, Canadians, or Mexicans think they're assholes, and if we did, THEN I'd feel ashamed of our country.

What if the French, Dutch, Germans, Canadians, or Mexicans have a logical reason to think Americans are assholes, should we listen then? If not, how can you say you care about foreigners?

I don't recall me or anybody on this board saying that you have to think America is great to be a patriot. I am saying, however, that there is something fundamentally wrong with a person who hates his country and spends his time telling everybody how terrible it is. It's analogous to people who are in abusive relationships, spend all their time bitching about how their boyfriend/girlfriend beats them, but never get out.

And that's exactly the problem with most Americans. They know the country is in the shitter, but they can't be bothered to put it on the line to change it the way people did in the past.

[Big Phil]

The entire OP is based on a what may be a false premise... that being that years ago Americans were willing to fight (and die if necessary) for their beliefs but that now we won't. I suspect that if you were to actually look at numbers of people involved in revolutions, protests, strikes, etc., you'd see that the proportion of people involved was similar a hundred years ago to what it is today.

There's also another major difference... the war is not affecting most Americans personally and directly, only indirectly. Unlike the Civil War, the First and Second World Wars, Women's Suffrage, the Civil Rights Movement, Vietnam, and a few others I can think of, most people aren't at risk of dying or being harmed. Paying higher taxes and the "War on Terror" are concepts too abstract for most people to see the link between them. If we had a military draft, if we were being asked to conserve aluminum and nylons, if there were rationing of meat, or if the economy were in a recession, I suspect you'd see a whole lot more people upset. People protested during Vietnam because they or someone they knew risked being sent there against their will. Whites joined blacks during the Civil Rights Movement because they couldn't ignore the shit that was happening; it was on TV all the time or right outside their front doors, happening to their friends or neighbors.

The fact of the matter is, most people think life is pretty good in this country today, they're not really at risk of dying, and there is no rationing of essential products, all despite an ongoing and a monkey in the White House.

[Darth Wong]

The fact of the matter is, most people think life is pretty good in this country today, they're not really at risk of dying, and there is no rationing of essential products, all despite an ongoing and a monkey in the White House.

It's worse than that; they can't even be bothered to inform themselves; almost half the population still thinks Hussein was personally involved in the 9/11 attacks! I think a large part of the problem is that the media is unacceptably servile. They're so worried about appearing "partisan" that they won't make a correction when a politician says something that is either factually incorrect or seriously misleading. I've grown to hate the word "partisan"; it is used as a blanket dismissal for any criticism of any political opinion! In effect, it is used to shut down the very idea of debate itself, because in order to debate any given issue, you have to pick a side on it, and the minute you pick a side on any issue, you're "partisan".

[Big Phil]

The fact of the matter is, most people think life is pretty good in this country today, they're not really at risk of dying, and there is no rationing of essential products, all despite an ongoing and a monkey in the White House.

It's worse than that; they can't even be bothered to inform themselves; almost half the population still thinks Hussein was personally involved in the 9/11 attacks! I think a large part of the problem is that the media is unacceptably servile. They're so worried about appearing "partisan" that they won't make a correction when a politician says something that is either factually incorrect or seriously misleading. I've grown to hate the word "partisan"; it is used as a blanket dismissal for any criticism of any political opinion! In effect, it is used to shut down the very idea of debate itself, because in order to debate any given issue, you have to pick a side on it, and the minute you pick a side on any issue, you're "partisan".

I agree with you, and I'll ask this question - is the apathy of the public any greater than it was in the past? Or is the difference that the media outlets in the past were more ballsy, whereas today they don't do anything conservative? Without newspaper and television shoving the attacks on Civil Rights protestors and Vietnam War casualties down everyone's throats and forcing them to watch, would anybody have cared?

[K. A. Pital]

Without newspaper and television shoving the attacks on Civil Rights protestors and Vietnam War casualties down everyone's throats and forcing them to watch, would anybody have cared?

Probably a lot less than they did in reality. The media plays a very important role.

[Darth Wong]

I agree with you, and I'll ask this question - is the apathy of the public any greater than it was in the past?

In my limited personal experience it is, and I have to lay much of the blame at the feet of the changes in news distribution over my lifetime. When I was in school, people who were serious about politics got almost all of their news from newspapers and magazines, which still produce by far the best quality of reporting to this day. But today, people get most of their news from "24 hour news networks" (which are totally unworthy of the name), talk radio (which fosters an incredibly superficial way of thinking by slicing everything up into 60 second editorials and 30 second listener call-in remarks), and the Internet, where bloggers compete with real journalists on equal terms and the average article has to be kept short enough for an ADHD sufferer to get through it without drifting off to one of the many banner ads.

I believe that much of the problem would be reversed if all political discussion were forced back to print media somehow (let's just say by magic). And the reason that the rest of the world is less affected is that the rest of the world doesn't have the kind of monochromatic American media saturation that America does. We get your media, we compare it to ours, and we rely more on print because there's less money in our media for the overproduced glitzy shit.

Or is the difference that the media outlets in the past were more ballsy, whereas today they don't do anything conservative? Without newspaper and television shoving the attacks on Civil Rights protestors and Vietnam War casualties down everyone's throats and forcing them to watch, would anybody have cared?

Journalists in the past were definitely more ballsy. This takes us to the other leg of this problem, which is corporate ownership of the media. As media outlets are increasingly vacuumed up by huge corporations, independent thinking and risk-taking is stifled in the same way that big record companies tend to stifle musical creativity in their performers.

[Big Phil]

Snip

I would counter your assertion that apathy is greater today than ever by suggesting that the massive public protests and political involvement we saw during the 60's and 70's (by the Baby Boomers) was an aberration, and not the norm.

[Darth Wong]

Snip

I would counter your assertion that apathy is greater today than ever by suggesting that the massive public protests and political involvement we saw during the 60's and 70's (by the Baby Boomers) was an aberration, and not the norm.

How does that speculation "counter" anything?

[theski]

Sorry to all for four posts back to back, but I just read this and I think it's appropriate and on-topic. It suggests that not ALL Americans, are lazy, coddled, servile sons of bitches.


Quote:
Hundreds of protesters rally against Bush in Seattle

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEATTLE -- Several hundred protesters rallied against President Bush here on Thursday, one of about 200 coordinated demonstrations around the country.

Protesters, organized by World Can't Wait-Drive Out the Bush Regime, cited a litany of complaints, including the conduct of the Iraq war and the botched federal response to Hurricane Katrina. They said Bush's recent signing of a bill authorizing tough detainee interrogation techniques amounts to legalizing torture.

Three protesters were arrested at a Capitol Hill park where the rally began for investigation of obstruction, resisting arrest, and - in the case of one - assault. Officers arrested a fourth person for possession of an illegal fixed-blade knife, Seattle Police spokeswoman Debra Brown said.

As marchers headed toward the federal building downtown, another person was arrested for investigation of unlawful possession of a firearm after being seen with a rifle wrapped in a blanket.

"They're still investigating to determine what that person was doing with the rifle," she said.

Protesters chanted, waved signs and wore costumes mocking administration officials. One woman dressed as a pageant queen with a sash that read, "I Miss America."


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/642 ... otest.html

this actually is good some people are standing up. I was asking in this thread why aren't we getting the massive protests from the 74% of americans who hate Bush and Co like we did during the 70's when we knew Vietnam war was wrong?

I wasn't saying america as a whole was bad. This is still a great country, what i was saying is i am sick of the servility and the laziness of americans who want protection from the terrorists and not their liberty.

So did you get out and protest yesterday?

[SirNitram]

Snip

I would counter your assertion that apathy is greater today than ever by suggesting that the massive public protests and political involvement we saw during the 60's and 70's (by the Baby Boomers) was an aberration, and not the norm.

You're what we'd call a dumbass. If apathy is high, why would people bother protesting?

[Darth Wong]

I think we have to distinguish between apathy of action and apathy of learning. There is plenty of will to act in America today, but little interest in learning what the fuck is going on. That's why 46% of Americans still think Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11. Action without analysis is nothing more than aggressive stupidity.

[Big Phil]

I think we have to distinguish between apathy of action and apathy of learning. There is plenty of will to act in America today, but little interest in learning what the fuck is going on. That's why 46% of Americans still think Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11. Action without analysis is nothing more than aggressive stupidity.

I think you're right on this one. We see plenty of people eager to protest and boycott and sign petitions, but they often don't know what they hell they're protesting against, boycotting, or signing. You see this in the trend toward organic foods or against animal testing, where people don't bother to educate themselves and just go along with what's popular.

[theski]

Mike and Nit.. is this a fair question?..

There were protest across the nation yesterday set up by The World can't Wait..


For the Americans in this thread that think the US is run by thugs and that they all need to go the Hauge.. Did you know about the Protests.. and Did You Go?