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Elfdart
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Just in time for Halloween!

Post by Elfdart »

Since the Bush Junta is about to legalize torture, grant itself immunity from war crimes prosecution and the Democrats don't have the balls to filibuster it, let's have a look at what's in store for anyone the Smirking Chimp decides is a "terrorist". For the past few years, Republitards have been extolling the virtues of waterboarding, which means subjecting the victim to simulated drowning and provoking a gag reflex.

Waterboarding has a long history.

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Until witch hysteria ended in the early 1700s, the favored method of getting old biddies to confess to witchcraft -which included things such as casting spells, fornicating with devils, joining covens, attending sabbats and other fanciful "crimes" was to make them think they were drowning or by actually drowning them.

BBC
Hopkins and Stearne ["professional" witchhunters -Elfdart] employed varying methods to extract confessions from the "witches". They would keep the suspect awake on surveillance for days on end, resulting in sleep depravation, meaning that at the end, the suspect could be coaxed into confessing to almost anything. Interestingly, this practice of confession-extraction is still used by a number of armies today.

Hopkins believed that witches fed their "familiars" (animals that would accompany them in their evil practices) with their own blood; by keeping the witch under guard this would also ensure that their familiars would not be able to feed from the witch, thereby depriving the witches of their alleged capabilities.

It was also believed that witches could be stabbed without having any mark remaining on their skin, so Hopkins would use a knife with a retractable blade, allowing him to quickly and cunningly prove their guilt. However, a favorite confessional torture of Hopkins was the infamous "swimming" test. The suspect's limbs would be bound together and they would be lowered into pond water by ropes. Hopkins saw the principle as being simple – if they sank and drowned, they would be innocent and in heaven; if they floated, they would be tried as a witch. He found this devious method simple and effective.
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The penalty for witchcraft was death. In England during the 1600s they got off with a hanging but in earlier times and on the continent, they were burned alive. Something that can make a religious old woman "confess" to a mortal sin (damning her to hell) that carries a gruesome death sentence (hangings back then were drawn out executions more like lynchings since the drop-noose hadn't yet been invented) is quite obviously torture since the "witch" had every reason to not confess since her body and soul were in danger.

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So-called witches weren't the only people tortured with waterboarding. It was a technique used by Imperial Japan on American pilots:

Link
Consider then, this testimony about his treatment in Tokyo,by CPT Chase Nielsen a member of the aircrew of one of the bombers on the Doolittle Raid against Japan in April, 1942. Captain Nielsen was captured by the Japanese in China and returned to Japan for interrogation.

Q: What other physical treatment was administered to you at that time?

A: Well, I was given what they call the water cure.

Q: Explain to the Commission what that was.

A: Well, I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water was poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let me up until I'd get my breath, then they'd start over again.

Q: When you regained consciousness would they keep asking you questions?

A: Yes sir they did.

Q: How long did this treatment continue?

A: About twenty minutes.

Q: What was your sensation when they were pouring water on the towel, what did you physically feel?

A: Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death.

United States v. Sawada et a., Trial Record, Volume I, p.55.18 March, 1946.
This is what the Bush Junta wants Congress to "clarify" -that is, make legal- and what McCain, Graham and those other Republitard wankers agreed to grant immunity for. Their timing is perfect: just a few weeks before Halloween to kick off a new witchseason. The torture is the same and so are the special pleadings from the pro-torture morons. The only thing missing is the bonfire and the scales used to determine if the defendant weighs the same as a duck...

Since the US government won't enforce the laws against torture, I hope other nations will follow the example of Spain and Britain when they collared Augusto Pinochet and start arresting and charging these cowardly, sadistic fucks should they set foot on foreign soil.
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Post by ThatGuyFromThatPlace »

What about France? WHy harp on the Americans for not enforcing laws against torture, when France has never even acknowledged torture was a reprhensible thing for a nation to do?
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Elfdart
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Post by Elfdart »

Everything France does is good, holy and blessed by Jesus.

And you are one dumb twat.
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Post by Dartzap »

*chuckles* Nice to see America still some 500 years behind us :wink:

Sometimes it does seem we're heading back in that direction though. I can only hope we get a leader who isnt completley insane after a few years, heh.
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Post by Morilore »

ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:What about France? WHy harp on the Americans for not enforcing laws against torture, when France has never even acknowledged torture was a reprhensible thing for a nation to do?
LOL U 2!!!!
:roll:
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Elfdart
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Post by Elfdart »

Morilore wrote:
ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:What about France? WHy harp on the Americans for not enforcing laws against torture, when France has never even acknowledged torture was a reprhensible thing for a nation to do?
LOL U 2!!!!
:roll:
That bit if trolling was almost as good as the guy who challenged Darth Wong to a duel for control of the site.
:lol:
*chuckles* Nice to see America still some 500 years behind us
The Torture Bill also creates a modern day Star Chamber where evidence obtained under torture can be used. All we need is a mockup of Tower Green and we're all set.
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Post by Surlethe »

Some 230 years ago, a bunch of people got together in Philadelphia and wrote this:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ... .
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
all men
all fucking men
Since when the fuck have we decided that some people lack basic rights, like habeas corpus, or a fair trial, or not to be tortured?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
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Surlethe
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Post by Surlethe »

ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:What about France? WHy harp on the Americans for not enforcing laws against torture, when France has never even acknowledged torture was a reprhensible thing for a nation to do?
Did you know that a tu quoque is not a valid argument?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
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Post by Big Phil »

Elfdart wrote:
Morilore wrote:
ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:What about France? WHy harp on the Americans for not enforcing laws against torture, when France has never even acknowledged torture was a reprhensible thing for a nation to do?
LOL U 2!!!!
:roll:
That bit if trolling was almost as good as the guy who challenged Darth Wong to a duel for control of the site.
:lol:
*chuckles* Nice to see America still some 500 years behind us
The Torture Bill also creates a modern day Star Chamber where evidence obtained under torture can be used. All we need is a mockup of Tower Green and we're all set.
The same could be said of your original post, which is simply Bush-bashing (boy, that's both original AND difficult to do) with no redeeming merits. No, wait... there is something redeeming about it - your self-righteousness and prickdom, which I just enjoy sooo much :roll:

Most all of us know the torture bill is bullshit - we don't need your smartass threads and self-righteous responses to remind us of that.
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Post by Edi »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Elfdart wrote:
Morilore wrote: LOL U 2!!!!
:roll:
That bit if trolling was almost as good as the guy who challenged Darth Wong to a duel for control of the site.
:lol:
*chuckles* Nice to see America still some 500 years behind us
The Torture Bill also creates a modern day Star Chamber where evidence obtained under torture can be used. All we need is a mockup of Tower Green and we're all set.
The same could be said of your original post, which is simply Bush-bashing (boy, that's both original AND difficult to do) with no redeeming merits. No, wait... there is something redeeming about it - your self-righteousness and prickdom, which I just enjoy sooo much :roll:

Most all of us know the torture bill is bullshit - we don't need your smartass threads and self-righteous responses to remind us of that.
We also don't need a fuckwit like you tryingto be a backseat moderator, so take your whiny trolling shit and shove it up your arse, asshole. This thread is legitimate, with legitimate commentary and information in the opening post that puts the commentary in context, unlike your holier-than-thou bitching about it. Just fuck off, SancheztheWhiner.

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Post by Elfdart »

Surlethe wrote:Did you know that a tu quoque is not a valid argument?
Yeah, but tu quoque is probably French. :P
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Post by Surlethe »

Elfdart wrote:
Surlethe wrote:Did you know that a tu quoque is not a valid argument?
Yeah, but tu quoque is probably French. :P
Oh, shit! Did I use a foreign language to make a point? Clearly, my argument is invalid! I concede the point! Please don't flame me!
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
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Post by Joe »

Waterboarding is serious business. It's not like the movies where the guy being tortured endures the torment and refuses to talk; if you're subjected to waterboarding you want to talk FAST. A bunch of CIA guys apparently tested it out and they lasted an average of 14 seconds.

It's effectively a mock execution, really.
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Post by The Spartan »

Surlethe wrote:Since when the fuck have we decided that some people lack basic rights, like habeas corpus, or a fair trial, or not to be tortured?
Didn't you know? Suspected terrorists aren't human. They're evil terrorists and don't deserve rights. :roll:

Really, I'm surprised you haven't heard that one by now.
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Post by Cao Cao »

Oh so you think terrorists have rights now huh?
I bet you love those terrorists, don't you! You hate freedom!

See, the only way to love freedom is to support denying it to anyone the Bush administration doesn't like! Praise Jebus!
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Post by Joe »

Cao Cao wrote:Oh so you think terrorists have rights now huh?
I bet you love those terrorists, don't you! You hate freedom!

See, the only way to love freedom is to support denying it to anyone the Bush administration doesn't like! Praise Jebus!
Jesus Christ, how many times do people have to make this same fucking post? It was old two years ago. We get it, George W. Bush is a gruesome boob, now find an original post.
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Post by Cao Cao »

Joe wrote:
Cao Cao wrote:Oh so you think terrorists have rights now huh?
I bet you love those terrorists, don't you! You hate freedom!

See, the only way to love freedom is to support denying it to anyone the Bush administration doesn't like! Praise Jebus!
Jesus Christ, how many times do people have to make this same fucking post? It was old two years ago. We get it, George W. Bush is a gruesome boob, now find an original post.
Correction, it was old 4 years ago. Whining about it is almost as old. And no.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Surlethe wrote:Since when the fuck have we decided that some people lack basic rights, like habeas corpus, or a fair trial, or not to be tortured?
Such things are not without precedent. I'm pretty sure Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War, and Wilson curtailed more than a few rights during WWI. But then again those were actually, you know, wars. Against opponents, not a common noun.

I see what you mean though. Precedent != justification.
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Post by Elfdart »

Joe wrote:Waterboarding is serious business. It's not like the movies where the guy being tortured endures the torment and refuses to talk; if you're subjected to waterboarding you want to talk FAST. A bunch of CIA guys apparently tested it out and they lasted an average of 14 seconds.

It's effectively a mock execution, really.
I was thinking the same thing. This country has a double standard when it comes to mock executions. When the Iranians put the American Embassy staff in front of the wall, removed the blindfolds, went through the "ready-aim-fire" routine and CLICK-CLICK-CLICK...

The U.S. government and media are still crying in their beer over it a quarter century later.
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Post by AdmiralKanos »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:The same could be said of your original post, which is simply Bush-bashing (boy, that's both original AND difficult to do) with no redeeming merits. No, wait... there is something redeeming about it - your self-righteousness and prickdom, which I just enjoy sooo much :roll:

Most all of us know the torture bill is bullshit - we don't need your smartass threads and self-righteous responses to remind us of that.
Have you written your congressman to express your outrage with the Bush Administration yet?
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Post by Big Phil »

AdmiralKanos wrote:
SancheztheWhaler wrote:The same could be said of your original post, which is simply Bush-bashing (boy, that's both original AND difficult to do) with no redeeming merits. No, wait... there is something redeeming about it - your self-righteousness and prickdom, which I just enjoy sooo much :roll:

Most all of us know the torture bill is bullshit - we don't need your smartass threads and self-righteous responses to remind us of that.
Have you written your congressman to express your outrage with the Bush Administration yet?
Actually, I have - and the two Senators as well - for all the good I think it will actually do. My congressman won't care, however (he's a Republican), and the two Senators are Democrats and therefore traitors to our Great Leader.
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Post by Jason von Evil »

Elfdart wrote:
That bit if trolling was almost as good as the guy who challenged Darth Wong to a duel for control of the site.
:lol:
...What? :wtf:
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
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Post by Elfdart »

Jason von Evil wrote:
Elfdart wrote:
That bit if trolling was almost as good as the guy who challenged Darth Wong to a duel for control of the site.
:lol:
...What? :wtf:
You had to be there.
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Post by RedImperator »

Cao Cao wrote:And no.
Wrong answer. It's old, it's spam, knock it the fuck off.
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