What to do about Illegal Immigration????

[FSTargetDrone]

Are any of you dumbfucks who keep blabbing on about how Hispanics behave actually 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation Hispanics? Do you have any firsthand experience with being an visibly different-looking immigrant (Hispanic, African, Asian, or Hispanic)? If not, shut your fucking yappers about how Hispanics behave, or what they want, or why they do or do not assimilate.

Yeah, actually. Paternal grandparents legally came up from Mexico into Texas. Maternal grandparents came over from Prague early last century with their parents.

Both of my Mexican paternal grandparents assimilated quickly, as grandpop worked for the government. Grandma, (who stayed home and raised 4 children, all of whom speak fluent Spanish and fluent English) largely spoke Spanish in the home and still had a noticeable accent until the day she died.

I still have realtives in Mexico, cattle ranchers, and I've actually spent a summer there visiting them in a small dusty town most of you have never heard of and will never visit. This man, Franciso I. Madero (an ancestor of mine), was president of Mexico.

When I see these silly kids in the pictures above waving the Mexican flag, carrying pinatas and wearing sombreros, that means nothing to me. I have no more allegiance to or particular interest in Mexico than I do with the Czech Republic, or any other country. If you come here legally, wonderful. If you sneak in, you should be tossed out. It's insulting to me given that my family came here legally and followed the rules. I sympathize with people who feel their lives are so dire that they wish to come here, from wherever, but I'm sorry, we cannot take everyone in.

[Stravo]

Can I detour the thread for a moment and say I would enthusiastically fuck quite a few of the women in those pictures. Wow. The Mexicans out there must be different than the ones here in NYC.

[Lord Poe]

Can I detour the thread for a moment and say I would enthusiastically fuck quite a few of the women in those pictures. Wow. The Mexicans out there must be different than the ones here in NYC.

Christ, you have no idea!

[Glocksman]

We've got two different arguments going on in this thread.
Some people are complaining about the speed at which immigrants assimilate, and those are the ones Sanchez is replying to.

Then we have the one over illegal immigrants' willingness to do jobs that Americans allegedly won't do.

There's a link, of sorts, between them. An immigrant(Legal or illegal) who has assimilated into American culture is going to have the same expectations and demands as the average American. In short, to get them to assimilate, you lose the cheap labour.

I haven't thought of it in quite those terms.
Good observation.

I were a paranoid sort , I'd suspect that the business cheerleaders for illegal immgration and 'guest worker' programs don't want the immigrants to assimilate into the larger culture.

[Glocksman]

Can I detour the thread for a moment and say I would enthusiastically fuck quite a few of the women in those pictures. Wow. The Mexicans out there must be different than the ones here in NYC.

Christ, you have no idea!

Oh God, summer's coming and you really ought to see how the younger Latinas at work dress when it gets warm.

[Stravo]

Can I detour the thread for a moment and say I would enthusiastically fuck quite a few of the women in those pictures. Wow. The Mexicans out there must be different than the ones here in NYC.

Christ, you have no idea!

Oh God, summer's coming and you really ought to see how the younger Latinas at work dress when it gets warm.

We have goddesses over here called Puerto Ricans so I'm not too upset about that but the Mexican women here are all these short little Native looking people that tend to blimp up if the wind blows nothing like some of the hotties in these pictures I assure you. We must be getting the second or third string up here. California and Texas obviously get cream of the crop.

[apocolypse]

Christ, you have no idea!

Oh God, summer's coming and you really ought to see how the younger Latinas at work dress when it gets warm.

We have goddesses over here called Puerto Ricans so I'm not too upset about that but the Mexican women here are all these short little Native looking people that tend to blimp up if the wind blows nothing like some of the hotties in these pictures I assure you. We must be getting the second or third string up here. California and Texas obviously get cream of the crop.

Hell yeah we do. The pictures don't do it justice either. There are some helluva fine women running around. You probably get the hardier stock that's able to resist the frigid ass winters.


And Glocksman, the way I read it was the people that were complaining about the speed of assimilation were also pointing out (at least I think I did?) that the speed of assimilation is slowed down by the consistent and large influx of illegals. So therefore it looked tied together to me, but with the different tangets I may have misread it.

[Lonestar]

Are any of you dumbfucks who keep blabbing on about how Hispanics behave actually 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation Hispanics? Do you have any firsthand experience with being an visibly different-looking immigrant (Hispanic, African, Asian, or Hispanic)? If not, shut your fucking yappers about how Hispanics behave, or what they want, or why they do or do not assimilate.

My Mom's family is Hispanic; and they've been in Texas since before the Texas Revolution.

I am Hispanic - second generation - my dad is Guatemalan and came here (legally) when he was 21. My mom is a white girl from southern Idaho. Of the children of all of their Hispanic friends, I am the only one (out of maybe 20 Hispanic kids) who speaks Spanish fluently; the only one who has visited Latin America (other than Cancun or other resorts) more than twice; and the only one who's ever spent an extended period of time in Latin America. All of the other kids (myself included) are 100% American; we just happen to not have blond hair or blue eyes.

You seem to be missing the point. We're talking about illegals who insist on applying the benefits of citzenry to them, and oh by mandate teaching classes, all of them, in Spanish for "as long as it takes" (vice the traditional "sink or swim" method prior immigrants had).

The fear is that it would create parts of the country linguisticly distinct from the rest....ask Canada how that works out for them.

[Stark]

Shep says he'd do unskilled labour jobs in hospitality, if they paid more than minimum wage.

There is your problem, gentlemen. Unskilled jobs for more than minimum wage? *Why*? Unskilled means virtually limitless employee pool, and someone *will* take the lower wage. If you want better than minimum wage, get some skills and get a real job.

Then again, minimum wage is laughably low in the US. Why is that?

[Big Phil]

Are any of you dumbfucks who keep blabbing on about how Hispanics behave actually 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation Hispanics? Do you have any firsthand experience with being an visibly different-looking immigrant (Hispanic, African, Asian, or Hispanic)? If not, shut your fucking yappers about how Hispanics behave, or what they want, or why they do or do not assimilate.

My Mom's family is Hispanic; and they've been in Texas since before the Texas Revolution.

I am Hispanic - second generation - my dad is Guatemalan and came here (legally) when he was 21. My mom is a white girl from southern Idaho. Of the children of all of their Hispanic friends, I am the only one (out of maybe 20 Hispanic kids) who speaks Spanish fluently; the only one who has visited Latin America (other than Cancun or other resorts) more than twice; and the only one who's ever spent an extended period of time in Latin America. All of the other kids (myself included) are 100% American; we just happen to not have blond hair or blue eyes.

You seem to be missing the point. We're talking about illegals who insist on applying the benefits of citzenry to them, and oh by mandate teaching classes, all of them, in Spanish for "as long as it takes" (vice the traditional "sink or swim" method prior immigrants had).

The fear is that it would create parts of the country linguisticly distinct from the rest....ask Canada how that works out for them.

Some people are talking about illegals - in which case I agree with the majority that they should be booted out of the country. I would also like to see work visas for Mexicans and other Hispanics be easier to obtain, but that's a political hot potato that no politician will touch - even Georgie Porgie only brought it up a few times and then dropped the issue.

The other issue is being raised is the speed of assimilation for immigrants. You've been here for 150+ years; you don't count (in my book at least) as an immigrant. It's like calling an American Indian an immigrant You may be different, but you're not an immigrant.

In any case, bitching because Hispanics don't immediately drop all of their native customs, languaged, etc., is what I'm taking issue with. It does happen in many cases; other people don't want to assimilate, or in other cases aren't allowed to. I think people should make an effort to adopt the customs of their new country, but it doesn't raise my hackles if they don't like it does with some people.

[CarsonPalmer]

But Sanchez, immigrants in the past assimilated very quickly, and an effort to do so. They didn't insist on having a transplanted culture, including their language.

[Big Phil]

But Sanchez, immigrants in the past assimilated very quickly, and an effort to do so. They didn't insist on having a transplanted culture, including their language.

Horsecrap - who do you think still lives in Chinatowns around the country? There are still Italian, Polish, German, Scandinavian, etc., enclaves in cities throughout the country. Some people want to integrate in the new culture and others don't. I don't see why we should cater to those who don't and make it easy on them (here's one vote for making English the official language), but neither do I get offended and pissy if they prefer never to leave their own neighborhoods.

Frankly, what's the difference between immigrants who don't want to assimilate and rich folks who never want to leave their gated communities? They are very similar, aren't they?

[Glocksman]

Shep says he'd do unskilled labour jobs in hospitality, if they paid more than minimum wage.

There is your problem, gentlemen. Unskilled jobs for more than minimum wage? *Why*? Unskilled means virtually limitless employee pool, and someone *will* take the lower wage. If you want better than minimum wage, get some skills and get a real job.

Then again, minimum wage is laughably low in the US. Why is that?

The point is that the labor pool isn't virtually limitless without the illegals, otherwise employers wouldn't put up with the disadvantages of hiring illegals (language barrier, getting caught and fined, etc).

Hiring them is very good for profits because you can pay them a lot less than what you have to pay 'legals', not to mention not paying for workman's comp insurance and other costs that come with hiring citizens or immigrants who are here legally.

The US minimum wage is low because of fucking politics.

[Mlenk]

Horsecrap - who do you think still lives in Chinatowns around the country?

I've always found that odd. Most Chinese that I've met or that I've seen have somehow been able to, for the most part, financially succeed without really, again for the most part from what I've seen, assimilating into American culture. I probably am wrong though. I admittedly don't have many Chinese friends so I'm probably just going off of stereotypes regarding rich Asian/Chinese Americans.

[Medic]

But Sanchez, immigrants in the past assimilated very quickly, and an effort to do so. They didn't insist on having a transplanted culture, including their language.

Horsecrap - who do you think still lives in Chinatowns around the country? There are still Italian, Polish, German, Scandinavian, etc., enclaves in cities throughout the country. Some people want to integrate in the new culture and others don't. I don't see why we should cater to those who don't and make it easy on them (here's one vote for making English the official language), but neither do I get offended and pissy if they prefer never to leave their own neighborhoods.

That's actually my minimum and maximum expectation as far as integrating with American culture, I don't see America as a "melting pot" where everyone has to surrender their identity. But if no effort's made to learn the language don't expect every other American, native or foreign, to cater to the interests of the nation's greatest (I think ) minority.

[Lonestar]

Some people are talking about illegals - in which case I agree with the majority that they should be booted out of the country. I would also like to see work visas for Mexicans and other Hispanics be easier to obtain, but that's a political hot potato that no politician will touch - even Georgie Porgie only brought it up a few times and then dropped the issue.

The other issue is being raised is the speed of assimilation for immigrants. You've been here for 150+ years; you don't count (in my book at least) as an immigrant. It's like calling an American Indian an immigrant You may be different, but you're not an immigrant.

Okay, fine, forgetting for the moment that I have family members in Texas left and right who married recent (Hispanic)immigrants my Dad's side came over from Germany in the late '40s...And there isn't one of them that insisted classes be taught in German/Yiddish for their kids who arrived. Nothing gets my paternal grandfather fired up more than reading about school classes (all of them) being taught in languages other than English. To hear him talk you'd think it was personal insult, and yes, he does look his nose down on people who don't "try to be American." That's more than a little harsh, but there's a gem of truth in it.

In any case, bitching because Hispanics don't immediately drop all of their native customs, languaged, etc., is what I'm taking issue with.

And that isn't what we're bitching about. We're talking about when, over the course of several years the state is forced to teach all subjects in Spanish, otherwise 'It's racist!'. Of course, anyone with two brain cells to rub togather can tell you that the best way to learn a language is total Immersion, not to drag it out over the course of several years with half-assed "ESL" classes. How many English speakers remember their Spanish for speaking it for an hour every school day? Not as many as those who took 6 week total immersion trips.

Horsecrap - who do you think still lives in Chinatowns around the country? There are still Italian, Polish, German, Scandinavian, etc., enclaves in cities throughout the country. Some people want to integrate in the new culture and others don't. I don't see why we should cater to those who don't and make it easy on them (here's one vote for making English the official language), but neither do I get offended and pissy if they prefer never to leave their own neighborhoods.

The difference is...most kids of (say) Chinese immigrants, or young Chinese immigrants, pick up the language fairly quickly and don't equate "Not speaking Mandarin/Cantonese=not Chinese*". Then their parents send their kids to private or community-run classes to make sure they retain the mothertongue. Catch the emphasis there? It isn't the Goverment that's footing the bill to fight assimilation, it's the parents and families. And it's viewed as a way to maintain their "Asianness" without burning the "in order to succeed in America you should learn English and assimiliate" bridge.

[Elfdart]

Oh God, summer's coming and you really ought to see how the younger Latinas at work dress when it gets warm.

We have goddesses over here called Puerto Ricans so I'm not too upset about that but the Mexican women here are all these short little Native looking people that tend to blimp up if the wind blows nothing like some of the hotties in these pictures I assure you. We must be getting the second or third string up here. California and Texas obviously get cream of the crop.

It's not just warm weather and cheap real estate that brings people to Texas and keeps them here.

One thing that's great is that Latino culture is traditionally very sexist with guys being overly macho and girls being extra-strength feminine and flirty -and they know how to milk it for all it's worth.

[Metrion Cascade]

Oh God, summer's coming and you really ought to see how the younger Latinas at work dress when it gets warm.

We have goddesses over here called Puerto Ricans so I'm not too upset about that but the Mexican women here are all these short little Native looking people that tend to blimp up if the wind blows nothing like some of the hotties in these pictures I assure you. We must be getting the second or third string up here. California and Texas obviously get cream of the crop.

If you're a chubby chaser or a hebephile (oops - no shortage of either around here). The skinny Mexican-descended girls in my area are all in high school, and by age 18 they all get artificial insemination and lipo-injection. I never hit the shops or movies without seeing dozens of reprehensibly obese 19-20somethings with multiple kids. It's really disturbing.

And somehow, no matter how fat the girls of any race around here get, a nice ass is still rare. I'll never figure out how a woman can have a gut the size of a watermelon and a two-dimensional ass.

Good thing I remembered to grab a nice cornfed Midwestern girl before I came. Blonde hair - blonde brain + ghetto booty + sixpack = win. At least the guys are prettier here.

[Rogue 9]

Are any of you dumbfucks who keep blabbing on about how Hispanics behave actually 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation Hispanics? Do you have any firsthand experience with being an visibly different-looking immigrant (Hispanic, African, Asian, or Hispanic)? If not, shut your fucking yappers about how Hispanics behave, or what they want, or why they do or do not assimilate.

I am Hispanic - second generation - my dad is Guatemalan and came here (legally) when he was 21. My mom is a white girl from southern Idaho. Of the children of all of their Hispanic friends, I am the only one (out of maybe 20 Hispanic kids) who speaks Spanish fluently; the only one who has visited Latin America (other than Cancun or other resorts) more than twice; and the only one who's ever spent an extended period of time in Latin America. All of the other kids (myself included) are 100% American; we just happen to not have blond hair or blue eyes.

Within a generation or two, people tend to assimilate into the larger culture, although if you're asking people to completely abandon their original culture that's not likely to happen. A huge number of Hispanics in this country are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants, and of those who aren't, a suprisingly large number are only just beginning to leave where they grew up. Why are you at all surprised that 1st or 2nd generation Hispanics are NOT integrated into society? It takes time...

Of all the people I know who are opposed to illegal immigration, the most virulently opposed one is Hispanic and a legal immigrant. She's pissed as hell that all these bozos just skip the border when she went through the whole deal to get her legal resident status.

[Rogue 9]

Can I detour the thread for a moment and say I would enthusiastically fuck quite a few of the women in those pictures. Wow. The Mexicans out there must be different than the ones here in NYC.

You realize they're high school students, right?

[Fleet Admiral JD]

If you haven't already, check out this site and some of their stances on immigration. The speech by the Prez and CEO is somewhat interesting. For their stance on this, it's under "topics."

Personally, I favor the wall that's been suggested and other anti-illegal measures.[/url]

[Elfdart]

Can I detour the thread for a moment and say I would enthusiastically fuck quite a few of the women in those pictures. Wow. The Mexicans out there must be different than the ones here in NYC.

You realize they're high school students, right?

I'm sure he only got wood for the seniors who are 18.