Stunning illiteracy in Alabama and Mississippi
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
Stunning illiteracy in Alabama and Mississippi
Over in another thread, Toyota was deciding to build a new plant in Canada instead of the US because, among other things, illiteracy in some southern states is really bad. The two examples given were Alabama and Mississippi.
How bad is it? Well, check out the results of a US government-commissioned report on illiteracy nationwide, specifically the entries for Mississippi and Alabama.
The report found that in Alabama, 25% of adults were at "Level 1", which means either completely illiterate or functionally illiterate. If you include Level 2 in illiteracy, which is an 8th grade literacy level and still very pathetic, the number comes up to 57%.
Mississippi was even worse. At Level 1, they had an awe-inspiring 30% of adults. When you include Level 2 as well, the illiteracy rate is 64%. Louisiana, Florida, and South Carolina were also in the bottom.
In comparison, most states have somewhere around 10% at level 1 and 30% at level 1 or 2. What the hell has been going on down south? Is it a poor education system, or anti-intellectual social attitudes, or corruption leading school money to be used very inefficiently, or what?
How bad is it? Well, check out the results of a US government-commissioned report on illiteracy nationwide, specifically the entries for Mississippi and Alabama.
The report found that in Alabama, 25% of adults were at "Level 1", which means either completely illiterate or functionally illiterate. If you include Level 2 in illiteracy, which is an 8th grade literacy level and still very pathetic, the number comes up to 57%.
Mississippi was even worse. At Level 1, they had an awe-inspiring 30% of adults. When you include Level 2 as well, the illiteracy rate is 64%. Louisiana, Florida, and South Carolina were also in the bottom.
In comparison, most states have somewhere around 10% at level 1 and 30% at level 1 or 2. What the hell has been going on down south? Is it a poor education system, or anti-intellectual social attitudes, or corruption leading school money to be used very inefficiently, or what?
-
- Village Idiot
- Posts: 4046
- Joined: 2005-06-15 12:21am
- Location: The Abyss
Here's what I said in the other thread ( it's actually more appropriate here ) :
Personally I buy this idea; I doubt it's a coincidence that the regions most known for fundieism are so ignorant and illiterate.Lord of the Abyss wrote:I've heard a theory about the connection between illiteracy and religion.
Here's the idea : Belief sustems are transmitted two ways, vertically down the family lines, or horizontally across family lines. If you want to promote religion, you don't want literacy because it can interfere with family tradition. If you're trying to spread a non-traditional ideology, you want as much literacy as possible so that people can be bombarded with whatever propaganda you're pushing. According to the theory, this is why Marxists tend to push for high literacy, while the highly religious tend not to.
Of course, literacy is useful for more than propaganda, while illiterate religiousity is a complete dead end.
- BlkbrryTheGreat
- BANNED
- Posts: 2658
- Joined: 2002-11-04 07:48pm
- Location: Philadelphia PA
My god- I feel absolutly sickened when I read those stastics. How the fuck did anyone mange to fuck up education that badly in those states?
Devolution is quite as natural as evolution, and may be just as pleasing, or even a good deal more pleasing, to God. If the average man is made in God's image, then a man such as Beethoven or Aristotle is plainly superior to God, and so God may be jealous of him, and eager to see his superiority perish with his bodily frame.
-H.L. Mencken
-H.L. Mencken
There's a nice saying that I think is appropriate here: "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." That theory sounds too much like a grand conspiracy, with people consciously trying to promote illiteracy to preserve family tradition.Lord of the Abyss wrote:I've heard a theory about the connection between illiteracy and religion.
Here's the idea : Belief sustems are transmitted two ways, vertically down the family lines, or horizontally across family lines. If you want to promote religion, you don't want literacy because it can interfere with family tradition. If you're trying to spread a non-traditional ideology, you want as much literacy as possible so that people can be bombarded with whatever propaganda you're pushing. According to the theory, this is why Marxists tend to push for high literacy, while the highly religious tend not to.
Instead, try looking at it as the result of at least two factors:
1. Illiteracy, like literacy, propagates itself along families. I wonder where I would be today if my parents hadn't been so enthusiastically into recreational reading that they had me happily reading adult books in first grade. Religiosity also propagates along family lines, and if it's paired with illiteracy, the combination of a lack of outside influences and religiously-related anti-intellectualism can be devastating.
2. People are stubborn, and often stupid. I know a lot of people who say that they "hate reading", and the more you try to persuade them otherwise, the more they'll come to vehemently despise reading and learning and all that square shit.
- SyntaxVorlon
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 5954
- Joined: 2002-12-18 08:45pm
- Location: Places
- Contact:
You don't have to be a moron to be uneducated, the average intelligence is probably not drastically different from one state to another. It's just that in the south there is enough of a stigma around high education and a big enough agrarian community to get around the need to be literate. Joe goatfucker from Backwardsass, AL is more likely to A. Skim through school because he doesn't need it to work in the factory, mill, farm, whathaveyou, B. have a higher affinity for sports and entertainment that doesn't require a manual and thus can use sports throughout school as a crutch, C has been indoctrinated since infancy that all he needs is a personal connection to god.Mr Bean wrote:I've been, spent time and lived in/next to Alamaba, were are all of the morons hiding when I was there?
Note, for all the southerners here, that's just a statistical outlook for Joe.
WE, however, do meddle in the affairs of others.
What part of [
![Image](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein/p-bar.gif)
![Image](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein/xi-bar.gif)
![Image](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein/xi-bar.gif)
Skeptical Armada Cynic: ROU Aggressive Logic
SDN Ranger: Skeptical Ambassador
EOD
Mr Golgotha, Ms Scheck, we're running low on skin. I suggest you harvest another lesbian!
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Probably in the rural areas. That's where morons normally hang out.Mr Bean wrote:I've been, spent time and lived in/next to Alamaba, were are all of the morons hiding when I was there?
![Image](http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/Avatars/500.jpg)
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
-
- Village Idiot
- Posts: 4046
- Joined: 2005-06-15 12:21am
- Location: The Abyss
Actually, it's based on the idea of memes ( let's not get into an arguement over whether they exist; at worst, they are a useful metaphor ). Conspiracy is not usually involved; instead, religions that keep people from too much exposure to other ideas have historically survived and spread better than more open religions. That is, up into recent times, when outside economic/technological forces put such religions at a major disadvantage.sketerpot wrote:There's a nice saying that I think is appropriate here: "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." That theory sounds too much like a grand conspiracy, with people consciously trying to promote illiteracy to preserve family tradition.
Instead, try looking at it as the result of at least two factors:
1. Illiteracy, like literacy, propagates itself along families. I wonder where I would be today if my parents hadn't been so enthusiastically into recreational reading that they had me happily reading adult books in first grade. Religiosity also propagates along family lines, and if it's paired with illiteracy, the combination of a lack of outside influences and religiously-related anti-intellectualism can be devastating.
2. People are stubborn, and often stupid. I know a lot of people who say that they "hate reading", and the more you try to persuade them otherwise, the more they'll come to vehemently despise reading and learning and all that square shit.
And illiteracy has sometimes been consciously promoted, like with the slaves of the Old South. At least some of the powerful have always recognized literacy as a danger, so don't rule malice out.
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
In parts of the country where "intellectual" is considered an insult, it's hardly surprising that there would be a high illiteracy rate.
![Image](http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/Avatars/500.jpg)
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
- Chmee
- Sith Marauder
- Posts: 4449
- Joined: 2004-12-23 03:29pm
- Location: Seattle - we already buried Hendrix ... Kurt who?
God's Will, obviously.BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:How the fuck did anyone mange to fuck up education that badly in those states?
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon"
Operation Freedom Fry
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon"
Operation Freedom Fry
- Cal Wright
- American Warlord
- Posts: 3995
- Joined: 2002-07-07 03:24am
- Location: Super-Class Star Destroyer 'Blight'
- Contact:
Thank you Bean! I saw this, and was like, they must be measuring from all cups. There are some rural uneducated portions of Alabama, and mind you, Huntsville is the third or fourth I believe now largest city in the state, and we're not that big. Funny thing about this article is Sporkzen just got hired on at the Toyata plant here. LoL!Mr Bean wrote:I've been, spent time and lived in/next to Alamaba, were are all of the morons hiding when I was there?
Were you born with out a sense of humor or did you lose it in a tragic whoppy cushion accident? -Stormbringer
"We are well and truly forked." -Mace Windu Shatterpoint
"Either way KJA is now Dune's problem. Why can't he stop tormenting me and start writting fucking Star Trek books." -Lord Pounder
The Dark Guard Fleet
Post 1500 acheived on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 2:48 am
- 18-Till-I-Die
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7271
- Joined: 2004-02-22 05:07am
- Location: In your base, killing your d00ds...obviously
Personally i dont understand it at all. I mean, if i couldnt READ i dont know what i'd do with my life, half my day i read shit, either on the internet or one of the like mountains of books my mom has (it's like a freakin' library in her room). I may not be exactly 'intellectual', and yes i have trouble spelling, but reading is so important i cant understand why people dont make it an issue to stamp out things like this as much as possible.
Then again i suppose it's easier to control a populationw hen they largely cant read and thus can only gather information from what you tell them. You control the flow of information, and you control the population. It rhymes in a sick kind of way.
Then again i suppose it's easier to control a populationw hen they largely cant read and thus can only gather information from what you tell them. You control the flow of information, and you control the population. It rhymes in a sick kind of way.
Kanye West Saves.
![Image](http://card.mygamercard.net/cylinder/QuoteableSauce.png)
![Image](http://card.mygamercard.net/cylinder/QuoteableSauce.png)
-
- Village Idiot
- Posts: 4046
- Joined: 2005-06-15 12:21am
- Location: The Abyss
I guess it's one of things where if you've never done it, you don't know what you're missing.18-Till-I-Die wrote:Personally i dont understand it at all. I mean, if i couldnt READ i dont know what i'd do with my life, half my day i read shit, either on the internet or one of the like mountains of books my mom has (it's like a freakin' library in her room). I may not be exactly 'intellectual', and yes i have trouble spelling, but reading is so important i cant understand why people dont make it an issue to stamp out things like this as much as possible.
- Trytostaydead
- Sith Marauder
- Posts: 3690
- Joined: 2003-01-28 09:34pm
I don't doubt it. Was in rural Louisiana back in high school for a week. The school over there was interesting. Most of the teachers I believe were from that Americorps I believe. There were barely any classrooms, mostly office dividers. Instead of computer classes, they had type writing. Shop and farming were the big courses.
- Lord Zentei
- Space Elf Psyker
- Posts: 8742
- Joined: 2004-11-22 02:49am
- Location: Ulthwé Craftworld, plotting the downfall of the Imperium.
Re: Stunning illiteracy in Alabama and Mississippi
Holy crap.sketerpot wrote:<snippy>
How bad is it? Well, check out the results of a US government-commissioned report on illiteracy nationwide, specifically the entries for Mississippi and Alabama.
The report found that in Alabama, 25% of adults were at "Level 1", which means either completely illiterate or functionally illiterate. If you include Level 2 in illiteracy, which is an 8th grade literacy level and still very pathetic, the number comes up to 57%.
Mississippi was even worse. At Level 1, they had an awe-inspiring 30% of adults. When you include Level 2 as well, the illiteracy rate is 64%. Louisiana, Florida, and South Carolina were also in the bottom.
<snippy>
And if the rural areas are where the illiterates are hanging out, I shudder to think what the statistics must be like for those areas specifically.
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel!
-- Asuka
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel!
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Re: Stunning illiteracy in Alabama and Mississippi
Look at the same numbers for:sketerpot wrote:Over in another thread, Toyota was deciding to build a new plant in Canada instead of the US because, among other things, illiteracy in some southern states is really bad. The two examples given were Alabama and Mississippi.
How bad is it? Well, check out the results of a US government-commissioned report on illiteracy nationwide, specifically the entries for Mississippi and Alabama.
The report found that in Alabama, 25% of adults were at "Level 1", which means either completely illiterate or functionally illiterate. If you include Level 2 in illiteracy, which is an 8th grade literacy level and still very pathetic, the number comes up to 57%.
Mississippi was even worse. At Level 1, they had an awe-inspiring 30% of adults. When you include Level 2 as well, the illiteracy rate is 64%. Louisiana, Florida, and South Carolina were also in the bottom.
In comparison, most states have somewhere around 10% at level 1 and 30% at level 1 or 2. What the hell has been going on down south? Is it a poor education system, or anti-intellectual social attitudes, or corruption leading school money to be used very inefficiently, or what?
New York
Percent at Level 1: 24
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 50
California
Percent at Level 1: 24
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 46
Massachusetts
Percent at Level 1: 16
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 40
Iowa
Percent at Level 1: 13
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 38
Indiana
Percent at Level 1: 16
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 43
Kentucky
Percent at Level 1: 19
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 54
Illinois
Percent at Level 1: 20
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 44
Nebraska
Percent at Level 1: 13
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 36
New Jersey
Percent at Level 1: 21
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 48
West Virginia
Percent at Level 1: 20
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 56
It's not just rural Southerners who can't read.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Oderint dum metuant
Oderint dum metuant
- Master of Ossus
- Darkest Knight
- Posts: 18213
- Joined: 2002-07-11 01:35am
- Location: California
Jesus! How is it even possible to function in society without being able to read? This is incredible. I literally do not know how I could even live without being able to read English.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
Re: Stunning illiteracy in Alabama and Mississippi
Sure, although the worst states are southern ones. I broaden my question: what the hell is wrong with literacy rates here?Glocksman wrote:Look at the same numbers for:
[snip]
It's not just rural Southerners who can't read.
-
- Village Idiot
- Posts: 4046
- Joined: 2005-06-15 12:21am
- Location: The Abyss
They can't function all that well, that's probably a major reasion for the poverty of these regions. What kind of a job can you get if you can't read, and how can you train yourself to do better ? Bad jobs, and you can't.Master of Ossus wrote:Jesus! How is it even possible to function in society without being able to read? This is incredible. I literally do not know how I could even live without being able to read English.
-
- Pathetic Attention Whore
- Posts: 5470
- Joined: 2003-02-17 12:04pm
- Location: Bat Country!
There's a reason new york is like it is. Most of the states area and a large portion of it's population is rural. NYC has like half the states pop, then the other large cities have a bunch of it but there's still a lot of rural fucktards to drag down the rating. Trust me, I live with them. My school is rural and has some of the worst test scores in the area and probably ranks pretty low on the list for the whole state.
-
- Pathetic Attention Whore
- Posts: 5470
- Joined: 2003-02-17 12:04pm
- Location: Bat Country!
This isn't making sense to me. I think my hypothesis is wrong. I live in seneca county and it has higher literacy rates than all the urban counties. I think either the study is flawed (unlikely) or I am. This throws the "rural fuckwad theory on why new york state isn't doing so well in the rankings" right out the window.
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Stunning illiteracy in Alabama and Mississippi
The New York and California numbers are probably skewed by the presence of large numbers of non English-speakers.Glocksman wrote:It's not just rural Southerners who can't read.
![Image](http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/Avatars/500.jpg)
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
- Coyote
- Rabid Monkey
- Posts: 12464
- Joined: 2002-08-23 01:20am
- Location: The glorious Sun-Barge! Isis, Isis, Ra,Ra,Ra!
- Contact:
Unfortunately, we live in a society where it is very easy to get by without having to read or write. Think of a guy that works in the dregs of the construction industry, where physical work and strength is all that is needed. They go home and plop down in fron of the TV, which talks to them. Then they repeat theprocess the next day. They rarely, if ever, need to read.
I doubt that they are totally incapable. They probably know their letters and can read a handful of words that are necessary to them ("Budweiser" "Chevy" "Stop" "Walmart") but beyond that, a lot of things are written in cartoon for the non-English speakers, and if you live in a low-intellect job, it just never comes into play.
It is hard for us to function like that, but we're used to interacting with others.
I doubt that they are totally incapable. They probably know their letters and can read a handful of words that are necessary to them ("Budweiser" "Chevy" "Stop" "Walmart") but beyond that, a lot of things are written in cartoon for the non-English speakers, and if you live in a low-intellect job, it just never comes into play.
It is hard for us to function like that, but we're used to interacting with others.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!