What if the Federation hadn't been such a bunch of wimps?

[T-1000]

Here is a curious question to ponder, what if the Federation weren't such a bunch of loosers?

More specifically, what if the Federation had, throughout its years, made it a policy to explore, carefuly ananlyze, steal and exploit all millitarily applicable technologies that they had ever come across and used them to develop into an Imperial-esque type of organization and millitary?

What do you suppose that would be like? What kind of weapons and technologies do you think they would have by this time?

Would this new Federation (having exploited valuable technologies from all the series leading up to just after Voyager returned home) be more of a match for the Empire?

What say you?

[TrailerParkJawa]

Well, Im not sure what tech they would have, but I do think they would exhibit more common sense.

Red shirts would have flak jackets to protect them from shrapnel which is deadly in the future as it is today. Heck, mabye they would even not where a RED shirt which tends to stand out.

They would use more strategy when fighting among starships, you know, actually taking advantage of longe range weapons and not trying to Cross the T like it was the Battle of Jutland.

[Howedar]

But they'd still be royally fucked against such a superior opponent as the Empire.

[Typhonis 1]

Heck maybe they would use one piece ships like the Cardassians .I mean it would seem that a single piece ship would be more structurally sound than one with Warp Nacells and a Saucer I mean isnt that why they need a Structural Integrity Field to begin with to keep the Nacells and Sauvcer on whebn the blame thing TURNS?

[FireNexus]

The structural integrity field is just to make sure space dust doesn't tear the little bastard apart. In space there is no drag, so a ship can basically take any shape at all.

However, ion battle, the ship would prove quite weak against a targeted attack. I can cripple your ability to run away by hitting a very small piece of metal, for instance.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

The Empire would still win.

[Guest]

Here is a curious question to ponder, what if the Federation weren't such a bunch of loosers?

More specifically, what if the Federation had, throughout its years, made it a policy to explore, carefuly ananlyze, steal and exploit all millitarily applicable technologies that they had ever come across and used them to develop into an Imperial-esque type of organization and millitary?

What do you suppose that would be like? What kind of weapons and technologies do you think they would have by this time?

Would this new Federation (having exploited valuable technologies from all the series leading up to just after Voyager returned home) be more of a match for the Empire?

What say you?

They'd be just as dead as they were before, but anyways...

See the Terran Empire in Mirror Mirror. I remembver reading a SD at Spacebattles about this titled "Reap the Whirlwind" in the Fanfic forum. They pretty much used tech the way it should have been used, applied militarily. My personal fav was the Moniter class, 8km long, internal bridge, uses Holographic displays for its viewscreen, and many other borg advances for other fun things.

[Atlas3060]

if the feds werent wimpy, they woulda been klingons

[Singular Quartet]

They'd be just as dead as they were before, but anyways...

See the Terran Empire in Mirror Mirror. I remembver reading a SD at Spacebattles about this titled "Reap the Whirlwind" in the Fanfic forum. They pretty much used tech the way it should have been used, applied militarily. My personal fav was the Moniter class, 8km long, internal bridge, uses Holographic displays for its viewscreen, and many other borg advances for other fun things.

This was me, fergot to log on.

Also, the Moniter class I was mentioning. It was designed by HappyTarget from spacebattles.

Bastion class
Heavy Monitor

Specs:

Length: 8,050 m
Beam: 3,800 m
Height: 3,000 m
Decks: 1,500

Crew: 35,000 Fleet personnel, 5,000 ground troops, * 2,000 fighter craft pilots or 5,000 fighter craft pilots (Athena refit)

Sensors:

Advanced Imperial, Borg Enhanced, Active and Passive Sensors
Advanced Spaceborn Warning and Control Systems
Advanced Anti Cloak/Stealth Sensors

Weapons:

20x Quantum Torpedo Turrets (5 fore, 5 aft, 5 port, 5 starboard) (all but those facing aft can fire directly foreword)
3x Heavy Torpedo Tubes (2 fore, 1 aft)
100x Phalanx Torpedo Turrets (25 fore, 25 aft, 25 port, 25 starboard)
30x Type-XV Phaser Arrays (10 dorsal fore, 10 ventral fore, 5 port aft, 5 starboard aft)
25x Quad Pulse Phaser Cannon Ball Turrets (10 fore, 5 aft, 5 port, 5 starboard) (all have 90 degree field of fire)
6x Type-II Phaser Lance (4 fore, 2 aft) (all have 10 degree field of fire)

*2,000 Cobra class Fighters or 5,000x Cobra class Fighters (Athena refit)

Defenses:

Phase Cloaking Device
500 cm Ablative Armor
Heavy Ablative Armor Generator Emplacements
Auto Modulating, High Capacity Regenerative Shield System
Enhanced Structural Integrity Field
Independently Armored and Shielded Bridge and Slipstream Cores
Emergency Defensive Hologram Mk 1

Propulsion:

*5x Standard Monitor Impulse Engines or Borg STL Drive (Athena refit)
6x Quantum Slipstream Cores

Notes:

The Bastion class closely resembles a significantly larger version of the Dauntless class hull design. The major difference is that on the Bastion, there are four nacelles mounted inline with the hull for enhanced protection and survivability instead of twin outboard nacelles mounted at the rear of the ship. The ISS Athena, the latest ship of the Bastion class was fielded with a Borg type STL drive, which greatly enhances both the survivability and maneuverability of the powerful ship. She also carries a further 3,000 fighters more than her sister vessels because of the space saved by the installation of the Borg STL drive. With holo emitters placed throughout the great ship, an EDH Mk 1 was installed on all Bastion class ships. It is capable of adding a full 4,000 extra combatants to anti boarding situations. Since they are holograms, they benefit from not suffering damage from standard weapons and being invisible to most sensor systems. With its enhanced SIF, the Bastion class can remain combat capable long after lesser vessels would have broken into pieces from the strain. It is the pinnacle of Terran Empire engineering and shipbuilding. There are currently only four Bastion class vessels in service, the ISS Bastion in Sol system, the ISS Surak in Vulcan system, the ISS Athena, 2nd Fleet’s Flagship, and the SSS Indomitable, Section 31’s Flagship.

[John Clark]

The Empire would still win, even with the Endgame tech and the Doomsday Machine and all that stuff because we like the Empire and George Lucas is God and The Phantom Menace wasn't really that bad really it wasn't and (BLAM!<thump>)

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

The Empire would still win, even with the Endgame tech and the Doomsday Machine and all that stuff because we like the Empire and George Lucas is God and The Phantom Menace wasn't really that bad really it wasn't and (BLAM!<thump>)

Go away troll. Wait, Endgame isn't in ST:X Nemesis, it wouldn't help anyways because all it is is torpedoes that rely on borg technobabble shields and some dumb armour. The doomsday machine is dead! Kirk killed it about 100 years before Voyager tech and when the debate takes place. It doesn't matter if all SW movies suck or win every award their is in a debate

[FireNexus]

To see why endgame tech is probably worthless, look here: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Hat ... iehle.html

[John Clarke]

Fire_Nexus, you didn't pay attention to the first post in the thread, which explicitly states that all of the things I mentioned ARE retained by an EVIL Federation. Thus, for the purpose of this post, they DO have all of that stuff.

[Nobody]

To see why endgame tech is probably worthless, look here: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Hat ... iehle.html

Ahhh good ol T-1000... Funny isn't it??

[Guest]

If I were in charge by 2375 I'd have some nifty technology on my ships. (Or whatever year DS9 takes place in when it ends).

I'd have all my ships equiped with phase and conventional cloaks and I'd be putting a lot of resources into a ship that can fire while cloaked. Battles are a lot better if one side is insanley more powerful then the other (which I'd like my side to be ). So I'd equip my *warships* with those cloaks.

Secondly I'd drop the Federation's gay design of exploratory vessels and instead design more Defiant-like warships, as in no nacelles sticking out being a gigantic target. Ships would be armored.

Third I'd drop all of the scientific crap and instead put in advanced sensor units and detection technology and probably tripple all the armarments on every starship (if I must keep the same design). If I can design my own warships I'd have a large strike force of Defiants for some real fast heavy hitters. And put in additional shield generators.

Fourth I'd arm every ship with the latest in phasers and quantum torpedoes and throw in a tricobalt torpedo for every 5 quantums. This would give some hard hitting firepower to render a planet uninhabitable or blow up a spacestation.

Fifth I'd make sure all my warships had some sort of manual warp core ejection system. They rely too much on automation, which is bad.

Sixth my warships would be equiped with better security systems and internal defenses like we see in Andromeda. I'd probably throw in a few war androids behind the walls leading to the bridge for good meassure (war androids are something I'd create ).

Seventh I'd produce more of the Federation's tac-fighters and Peregrines and then mass produce them. This would include putting fighter bays into many of the larger starships and constructing devoted fleet carriers that could hold a few wings of these babies.

Eight I'd make sure that my Federation has adapted its shipborne shields for large scale planetary or city usage and install those on planets and take that Cardassian idea of orbital weapons and develop even better grids.

Nineth when I have my contact with the Borg I would board their ships and use my Marines, who would be equiped with melee weapons and good old fashioned pistols and submachineguns to take any technology of use. This would include maturation chambers, Borg nantechnology, transporters that can go through shields, their dimensional rift creating ability, and of course transwarp. And I'd make sure I take their communications technology so I don't get that slow Federation speed.

Tenth I'd make sure my fleet and Federation had a large, well trained army and Marine Corp. I remember reading a ST novel where they were equiped with phaser proof armor and small photon grenades or something. I'd take that and attempt to make some sort of powerarmor. Within a few decades we'll probably have some sort of power armor, so I don't see it as an impossibility in the 24th century.

That's about what I'd do by feverishly researching military technology.

[Singular Quartet]

[quote="Anonymous"][snip][quote]

Pretty much what I put down, right?

[Howedar]

I love how the presumably fission "tricobalt" torpedo is stronger than antimatter weapons...

[Bryan]

I love how the presumably fission "tricobalt" torpedo is stronger than antimatter weapons...

Well, from my guesses the producers looked at the Peridoic Table and found cobalt, thought it sounded cool and added tri before it to make it sound uber.

Like a turbolaser. It has laser in its name but it aint a laser.

[T-1000]

To see why endgame tech is probably worthless, look here: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Hat ... iehle.html

Ahhh good ol T-1000... Funny isn't it??

Oh, hi Nobody!

*sigh* Memories. Oh well, at least I tried. I know plenty of other people who don't agree with Wong's conclusions but never do anything but just talk about it behind his back. At least I tried.

As for the purpose of this thread, I posted this over at another message board, and here were some of the amusing ideas that we came up with.

Since it has already been displayed that the Federation knows how to genetically enhance people already (they just don&#8217;t since it has been ruled illegal), every Federation officer will be genetically enhanced in terms of strength, speed, intelligence, reflexes the works.

Having adopted the use of subspace transporter technology (an eventually lethal technology) to beam boarding parties on board enemy ships with their shields raised, the Federation has android clones (the technology used to create precise android clones was depicted in the first series) of its augmented officers beam on board enemy vessels in combat. This way, no vital officers need be endangered, since we have exact android clones doing all the work.

Despite the moral obligations, the Exo-Comps will be developed and put into full use for the Federation, especially for use to repair battle damage onboard Federation ships.

The unique long range, self-improving and adapting battle drones found on the planet Minos (also known as the &#8220;Arsenal of Freedom&#8221;) will be adopted and devloped, with their control systems responsible for replacing and improving the previous drones, will be placed on all Federation ships.

The phase cloak system will be developed and installed on all Federation ships.

The Delta Flyer will replace the standard shuttlecraft, and will also be used as fighter craft in case of emergency, since it has proven to have sufficient weapon and shielding system.

The Delta Flyer will have its logs carefully analyzed, thus revealing how Q&#8217;s son was able to generate a Spatial Fletcher, thus enabling him to instantly travel to anywhere in the galaxy instantly. This form of travel will be adopted by all Federation ships, thus allowing them to travel anywhere in the galaxy whenever they damn well feel.

The genesis device will be finished and used either to create planets for Federation colonization, or to destroy inhabited enemy worlds.

The technology Dr. Sauron used to create his trilithium weapon will be carefully analyzed in the hopes of recreating one of his sun-blasting probes.

The Breen energy weapon recovered will be carefully studied and placed on board all Federation ships. Likewise, other useful Dominion weapons, such as the orbital defense platforms, will be studied and applied to other Federation applications.

Obtain planetary cloaking and shielding technology from the Aldeans. They did have planetary shielding as well, as I recall.

Develop the ablative armor and transphasic torpedoes brought from the future Janeway and place them on all ships. The armor technology would be adapted so as to permit full use of all weapon systems while the armor is up.

The metaphasic particles found in the Ba&#8217;ku system will be collected and used to create a new medical technology that would be highly benefical to the Federation and its population.


As you can see, the Federation could have been pretty tough if that had ever put their mind to it.

[Guest]

If I were in charge by 2375 I'd have some nifty technology on my ships. (Or whatever year DS9 takes place in when it ends).

I'd have all my ships equiped with phase and conventional cloaks and I'd be putting a lot of resources into a ship that can fire while cloaked. Battles are a lot better if one side is insanley more powerful then the other (which I'd like my side to be ). So I'd equip my *warships* with those cloaks.

Secondly I'd drop the Federation's gay design of exploratory vessels and instead design more Defiant-like warships, as in no nacelles sticking out being a gigantic target. Ships would be armored.

Third I'd drop all of the scientific crap and instead put in advanced sensor units and detection technology and probably tripple all the armarments on every starship (if I must keep the same design). If I can design my own warships I'd have a large strike force of Defiants for some real fast heavy hitters. And put in additional shield generators.

Fourth I'd arm every ship with the latest in phasers and quantum torpedoes and throw in a tricobalt torpedo for every 5 quantums. This would give some hard hitting firepower to render a planet uninhabitable or blow up a spacestation.

Fifth I'd make sure all my warships had some sort of manual warp core ejection system. They rely too much on automation, which is bad.

Sixth my warships would be equiped with better security systems and internal defenses like we see in Andromeda. I'd probably throw in a few war androids behind the walls leading to the bridge for good meassure (war androids are something I'd create ).

Seventh I'd produce more of the Federation's tac-fighters and Peregrines and then mass produce them. This would include putting fighter bays into many of the larger starships and constructing devoted fleet carriers that could hold a few wings of these babies.

Eight I'd make sure that my Federation has adapted its shipborne shields for large scale planetary or city usage and install those on planets and take that Cardassian idea of orbital weapons and develop even better grids.

Nineth when I have my contact with the Borg I would board their ships and use my Marines, who would be equiped with melee weapons and good old fashioned pistols and submachineguns to take any technology of use. This would include maturation chambers, Borg nantechnology, transporters that can go through shields, their dimensional rift creating ability, and of course transwarp. And I'd make sure I take their communications technology so I don't get that slow Federation speed.

Tenth I'd make sure my fleet and Federation had a large, well trained army and Marine Corp. I remember reading a ST novel where they were equiped with phaser proof armor and small photon grenades or something. I'd take that and attempt to make some sort of powerarmor. Within a few decades we'll probably have some sort of power armor, so I don't see it as an impossibility in the 24th century.

That's about what I'd do by feverishly researching military technology.

Can you say run your economy in the ground?

[FireNexus]

Can you say run your economy in the ground?

Well, since the federation is socialist, if you apply that technology to the capture and exploitation of enemy worldsw, and make proper use of the Genesis system, you could most likely deal with the cost.

Of course, the federation could do very well to design something akin to world devestators for fighter production, since that's one area where they're MAJORLY lacking in.

If the federation were smart, run by competent people, and prepped towards total military domination of at least their quadrant, but definitely their galaxy, they could most likely be up to the imperial threat within 50 years to just over a century.

Of course, the federation are a bunch of whining idealist morons, so they won't be...

[T-1000]

Can you say run your economy in the ground?

Of course, the federation are a bunch of whining idealist morons, so they won't be...

Hence the entire reason for this thread!

[Guest]

To see why endgame tech is probably worthless, look here: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Hat ... iehle.html

Ahhh good ol T-1000... Funny isn't it??

Oh, hi Nobody!

*sigh* Memories. Oh well, at least I tried. I know plenty of other people who don't agree with Wong's conclusions but never do anything but just talk about it behind his back. At least I tried.

Yup, It's much better than running around behind his back. But he did chew you out pretty good about it.

[Nobody]

Ooops... Um, that's mine!!

[Pablo Sanchez]

http://daltonator.net/fuq/search.php?au ... ad+phasers


They would probably ditch their phasers in favor of assault rifles, and they would still have tanks. They might have even use properly designed laser rifles.

For ship to ship, they'd probably have high-yield nuclear bombs to supplement their M/AM torpedoes, because plutonium is a hell of a lot easier to get than antimatter. Instead of phasers, they might use a nice, direct energy transfer weapon like a laser, which wouldn't go to pot when it hit armor.