Subspace Transporters?

[TheDarkling]

Hmm no comments on the subspace transporter but as soon as a bitter (prehaps rightfully so - im new to the Vs world) trekky shows up everyone is on my thread.

Once you get into specifics such as obtaining a map thats no longer fact based its like saying who would find the wormhole or whatever connects the two galaxies first.

The Fed explores so they go looking for such things but the Imp stick to designated routes unless a battle requires they go elsewhere, however Imps can cover more terrain.

The importance of the answer seems simple since whichever side get there first would gain an advantage.

[John Clarke]

Hmm. Have you noticed how easy it is to yell "Troll!" when someone pokes neat little holes in your fantasy?

Regarding the +/-1KT output for a blaster, scale down the output figure for TurboLasers by size and power factors. See what you get. No one ever SAID it because it would render the absolute stupidity of SW weapon output claims totally transparent. That's why no one has ever said it,

And maps are gained how? They're either MADE or BOUGHT.

Obviously the Imperials can't make them themselves -- they'd have to do it at sublight, and before they even reached a planet worth hitting, they'd be more interested in re-upping their stock of Poly-Dent than killing anybody. Second, ask yourself: a whole shitload of gangbangers roll up in your neighborhood with tanks and ask if you know where they can find the best people to kill. You going to tell them knowing you'll eventually be on the list?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Hmm. Have you noticed how easy it is to yell "Troll!" when someone pokes neat little holes in your fantasy?

Regarding the +/-1KT output for a blaster, scale down the output figure for TurboLasers by size and power factors. See what you get. No one ever SAID it because it would render the absolute stupidity of SW weapon output claims totally transparent. That's why no one has ever said it,

no, YOU scale it down. besides, you can't go scaling different weapons. Turbolasers and blasters are different weapons. And one has a small ammo supply, another has huge power cells.

And maps are gained how? They're either MADE or BOUGHT.

Obviously the Imperials can't make them themselves -- they'd have to do it at sublight, and before they even reached a planet worth hitting, they'd be more interested in re-upping their stock of Poly-Dent than killing anybody. Second, ask yourself: a whole shitload of gangbangers roll up in your neighborhood with tanks and ask if you know where they can find the best people to kill. You going to tell them knowing you'll eventually be on the list?

That is a pathetic and wrong analogy. The Imperials won't bring the whole fleet, one Carrack Cruiser is enough. All it has to do is ask the nearest ship for maps as they are new to this part of space. The 350 meter long ship doesn't look very menacing. You get a map, thank the ship and maybe give it something, and go on your way. You don't take your SSD and go "give me a map so I can conquer this galaxy"

[John Clarke]

Okay, smart guy, so what are they going to do with the rest of the strike fleet, have them just sit there in space for awhile while the cutesy ship goes for the map? Think anybody will spot them? Naaaaaah.

And you still haven't solved the problem of how any Imp ship is going to go ANYWHERE without the calculations required for them to make a hyperjump.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Okay, smart guy, so what are they going to do with the rest of the strike fleet, have them just sit there in space for awhile while the cutesy ship goes for the map? Think anybody will spot them? Naaaaaah.

And why would they care about them? A passing ship would probably say "HOLY SHIT! That's one big ship!" and leave.

And you still haven't solved the problem of how any Imp ship is going to go ANYWHERE without the calculations required for them to make a hyperjump.

Probe Droids and Short Hyperspace jumps

[TheDarkling]

Its a good bet that if the entery point disturbance (whatever it may be) has gone undetected then many ships musnt go near it so the fleet should be safe.

As for hyperdrive use to get to meeting another ship - this would require micro jumps to the edge of sensor range and so on, this would take some time however since the federation isnt teaming with life so bumping into a planet or ship would be differcult.

However as soon as this meeting took place it would be reported to the Fed and im sure they would send a ship to investigate.

[His Divine Shadow]

And you still haven't solved the problem of how any Imp ship is going to go ANYWHERE without the calculations required for them to make a hyperjump.

Simple optical observations, make microjumps a couple of light hours or days at a time to get a good parallax and from that plot an accurate enough star map to send out their probes wich get even better readings, within a week they could safely go almost anywhere, and then once they got good enough starmaps to get around they can find local starmaps of better resolution and get full capacity out of their hyperdrive.

[John Clarke]

Quoted, Grand Adm Thrawn:
"And why would they care about them? A passing ship would probably say "HOLY SHIT! That's one big ship!" and leave."

...and not tell another living soul what they saw. Uhhhhh huh. Yeah.

And regarding Probe Droids, how far can they go? And regarding short Hyperspace jumps -- how fast is Hyperdrive, again? Blind jumps are about as same as blind beaming. They'd be in a planet's gravity well and falling with just enough time to scratch their arrogant asses before they became headlines.

[His Divine Shadow]

And regarding Probe Droids, how far can they go?

Vader sent probes all over the galaxy, or the outer rim, thats big enough to cover a quadrant at a time.

And regarding short Hyperspace jumps -- how fast is Hyperdrive, again? Blind jumps are about as same as blind beaming. They'd be in a planet's gravity well and falling with just enough time to scratch their arrogant asses before they became headlines.

Microjumps 1/3000th of a light year are unproblematic and they got FTL sensors to see that far too.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

...and not tell another living soul what they saw. Uhhhhh huh. Yeah.

So they tell someone. It's not like they're going to know what they're going to do.

And regarding Probe Droids, how far can they go?

50 lightyears. That's how long their communication range is.

And regarding short Hyperspace jumps -- how fast is Hyperdrive, again?

10s of millions c

Blind jumps are about as same as blind beaming. They'd be in a planet's gravity well and falling with just enough time to scratch their arrogant asses before they became headlines.

Wrong. They can scan outside the system (ESB) and find all the stuff.

[TheDarkling]

[quote
Vader sent probes all over the galaxy, or the outer rim, thats big enough to cover a quadrant at a time.

Microjumps 1/3000th of a light year are unproblematic and they got FTL sensors to see that far too.[/quote]

Excessive use of droids would be a bad idea since it would tip off anyone in the nearby area.

Best to stick to sensors and Micro jumps.

[John Clarke]

And since sensors do the same THING as microjumps, best to stick to sensors. But sensors won't give you military information because they're reading technology unknown to the Empire and thus (more than likely) unrecognizeable as military in nature. Sensors ALSO won't tell you where you need to go, even if you do know how to get there.

Again, the Empire is just being given way to much credit for knowledge they do not have.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

And since sensors do the same THING as microjumps, best to stick to sensors. But sensors won't give you military information because they're reading technology unknown to the Empire and thus (more than likely) unrecognizeable as military in nature. Sensors ALSO won't tell you where you need to go, even if you do know how to get there.

Again, the Empire is just being given way to much credit for knowledge they do not have.

Sensors will get you directions. And then you can find someone with a map.

[John Clarke]

Quoted: "So they tell someone. It's not like they're going to know what they're going to do."

Right. Hundreds of gigantic ships which are heavily armored and sending out thousands of small black vessels that look like something the girl from the Exorcist would use for a sex toy, every single vessel and device emitting massive amounts of power... I'm sorry, but does that image strike you as COMFORTING?

[John Clarke]

Quote: "Sensors will get you directions. And then you can find someone with a map."

And then they're just going to give it to you because you happen to speak Federation Standard, and they're not at ALL worried about those hundreds of heavily armored ships (which kinda remind you of Borg Cubes, only shaped like pizza slices) or your obviously military uniform, or all the guys goose-stepping around you, or... yeah. They'd just give you a map because, and reading it would be really easy too.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Quote: "Sensors will get you directions. And then you can find someone with a map."

And then they're just going to give it to you because you happen to speak Federation Standard, and they're not at ALL worried about those hundreds of heavily armored ships (which kinda remind you of Borg Cubes, only shaped like pizza slices) or your obviously military uniform, or all the guys goose-stepping around you, or... yeah. They'd just give you a map because, and reading it would be really easy too.

Thanks for ignoring my one Carrack cruiser thing. Military unifroms are common and guys goose-stepping? What?

[TheDarkling]

He did say that they would only take one ship.

The Imps would need to move fast because once word about them got out the clock would be ticking and if the Feds did have a chance against them (using Subspace transporters for example) then the imps would loose heavily until HQ told them how to defend themselves - so if the fleet was cut off it would be very bad unless they excuted a lightening fast strike across the Federation.

[John Clarke]

I didn't ignore your Carrack Cruiser ploy. It's been addressed already, earlier in the thread.

[John Clarke]

The only problem, Darkling, is that a Blitzkrieg (as you suggest) is simply not an option in territory which is totally alien to the attacker.

How simple is this concept? There MUST be an initial phase of intelligence gathering for any kind of attack to succeed.

That intelligence-gathering phase carries with it the risk of discovery.

Simple as that.

[TheDarkling]

Yes I agree they must at first gain information on the layout of the federation and the strength of starfleet etc and once this began word would probably leak to starfleet intel or those section 31 boys.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

I didn't ignore your Carrack Cruiser ploy. It's been addressed already, earlier in the thread.

All you said is where the fleet will be, I said that they're not going to know what they are, they won't bother anyone, and you said how they'd find a map guy and I explained!

[Guest]

Jamming would stop it.

Do you have proof of this?

We are at a place where we shouldn't make sweeping statements without having some sort of proof.

[TheDarkling]

If the federation could actually engage Imp ships in combat then the Imps would have a tough time - every colony could whip up a transporter and thus protect itself - this would mean many ships would be lost and a large number needed to take over the Federation and the empire cant commit those sorts of forces when the people of the empire would use the first opportunity to rise up.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Jamming would stop it.

Do you have proof of this?

We are at a place where we shouldn't make sweeping statements without having some sort of proof.

First, subspace jamming should jam subspace transporters. Second, Jamming would stop them from getting a lock on the ISD, which will be moving by the way.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

BTW, The Feds don't have subspace transporters.