First Post / Background Empire - Federation

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-19 10:15am

First of all, I want to say "Hello" to all of you!
I accidentally came across this site, and found out, that it was rather interesting. I greatly appreciate the work to keep this site in shape.
My first thoughts concerning the ST vs SW scenario was the following:
Regarding to the position in the story to be told , Federation an Empire had totally different roles to play.
SW:
The Empire had the role of the evil superpower which was nearly impossible to overcome, outfitted with superweapons (Deathstar). It had to be an worthy adversery for a band of dauntless companions on a righteous campain to bring justice to the galaxy.

ST:
The Federation, on the other hand, was "merely" the background organisation that sent the Enterprise on its mission. Would the Federation be as powerful and large in numbers as the Empire, no-one could stand against them. Therefore it wouldn't be adequate regarding its role in the story.

Conclusion:
The Empire is superior to the Federation. ANH would be less spectacular, if Luke roamed throug a Galaxy-Class, trying to push the red button in main-engineering, and TNG would be quite boring, if every planet that seemed to be hostile would be either invaded by a Stormtrooper- Division or just rendered into a debris-field by the USS Deathstar. I hope I made my point clear, withouf offending too many of you.

But when we take the Q-Continuum in account, and they decide to help the Federation...

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-19 10:35am

You know, I can't really think of how to respond to this without belitteling the heck out of you. Where's Alyeska, he's good at educating newbies...

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-19 11:13am

Just let me have it

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2003-09-19 11:42am

PzGren wrote: But when we take the Q-Continuum in account, and they decide to help the Federation...

They won't

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-19 11:49am

PzGren wrote:Just let me have it

Last time I did that the guy never came back.

Basically, your post is a giant "Duh". Yes, each is the way it is because it is what the story dictates. You make the error of assuming superior numbers automatically garuntees victory, though in this case it does happen to be correct.

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-19 11:49am

They might want to protect their favorite pets

[/quote]

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-19 11:58am

Darksider wrote:
PzGren wrote: But when we take the Q-Continuum in account, and they decide to help the Federation...

They won't

You know the way they helped the Federation during the Borg invasion....oh wait they didn;t.

Surely they must have tried to restore the Timeline in Yesterday's Enterprise? No? Damn.

OK OK, they definately helped the Federation during the Dominion War right?

Without getting too sarcastic you see the point. There is no instance in the shows or movies where the Q step in to help the Federation in any way when they are in trouble. When the Q get involved its usually to serve one of their purposes and not some altruistic love of the Federation. Remember Q's words at the end of All Good Things. Humanity is always on trial. It would serve no purpose of the Q intervened.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2003-09-19 12:02pm

Why did you quote me?
I already know that.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-19 12:03pm

Darksider wrote:Why did you quote me?
I already know that.

I was supporting your position

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-19 12:04pm

PzGren wrote:They might want to protect their favorite pets

Except they never intervene in any other threat.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-09-19 12:08pm

I have nothing to add to your post, or any comments to it. but one thing I want to ask you.
Your name ,PzGren. Is this your short form for "Panzer-Grenadier"?

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-19 12:33pm

Yes, it is, yes I am

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-09-19 12:41pm

Is it a indicator from were you come?

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-19 12:46pm

Indeed. I also updated my profile, so the guessing can stop.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-19 01:04pm

Its okay. You can put München. We'll understand.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-09-19 01:07pm

Why the Name?
(Schon Gedient, mußt noch, oder wie?)

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-19 01:19pm

Although possibly being flamed on this, I'm studying Aeronautic- and Space- Engineering at the University of the German Federal Armed Forces Munich. I am officer with the Panzergrenadiere (MechInf), serving 12 years, of wich 4 have already passed.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-19 01:28pm

Why would you be flamed for that? Thats pretty cool. I expect a lot of people here envy you.

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-19 01:35pm

I roamed through the "hatemail" section (quite amusing), and most "offenders" start off by introducing themselves as academics of various kinds.
Btw, it's not always cool, it's rather stress. We have trimesters instead of semesters, that means 9 months of lectures, 3 moths for hands-on training and learning for the exams. I didn't mention holidasy for a good reason

.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-19 02:03pm

Tribun, leave the chit-chat for PMs, please.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-09-19 03:16pm

PzGren wrote:I roamed through the "hatemail" section (quite amusing), and most "offenders" start off by introducing themselves as academics of various kinds.
Btw, it's not always cool, it's rather stress. We have trimesters instead of semesters, that means 9 months of lectures, 3 moths for hands-on training and learning for the exams. I didn't mention holidasy for a good reason .

It is not the academics, which were primiry featured in the hate mail section. Most of them are wannabe-academics, with nothing but hot air on thier side. After what you said, you certainly fall NOT in this category.

Welcome here on SD.net!

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-09-19 03:28pm

PzGren wrote:First of all, I want to say "Hello" to all of you!

Hello!

PzGren wrote: I accidentally came across this site, and found out, that it was rather interesting. I greatly appreciate the work to keep this site in shape.
My first thoughts concerning the ST vs SW scenario was the following:
Regarding to the position in the story to be told , Federation an Empire had totally different roles to play.
SW:
The Empire had the role of the evil superpower which was nearly impossible to overcome, outfitted with superweapons (Deathstar). It had to be an worthy adversery for a band of dauntless companions on a righteous campain to bring justice to the galaxy.

ST:
The Federation, on the other hand, was "merely" the background organisation that sent the Enterprise on its mission. Would the Federation be as powerful and large in numbers as the Empire, no-one could stand against them. Therefore it wouldn't be adequate regarding its role in the story.

Conclusion:
The Empire is superior to the Federation. ANH would be less spectacular, if Luke roamed throug a Galaxy-Class, trying to push the red button in main-engineering, and TNG would be quite boring, if every planet that seemed to be hostile would be either invaded by a Stormtrooper- Division or just rendered into a debris-field by the USS Deathstar. I hope I made my point clear, withouf offending too many of you.

That would be a valid but unscientific answer to the versus question. We generally avoid trying to determine the outcome of versus debates by invoking storytelling conventions.

PzGren wrote:But when we take the Q-Continuum in account, and they decide to help the Federation...

1) As others have noted, the Q have no motivation to assist the Federation. They have, in fact, generally demonstrated hostility toward the Federation.

2) Invoking Q on the Federation side is generally regarded as an admission of defeat. The debate has ceased to be about the Federation vs the Empire and turned into a debate about the Q vs the Empire.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-19 03:32pm

Has there ever been a serious attempt at debating a Q/Empire matchup? Or are the powers of the Q so out there that any real calculations would just be foolish?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-09-19 03:44pm

Stravo wrote:Has there ever been a serious attempt at debating a Q/Empire matchup? Or are the powers of the Q so out there that any real calculations would just be foolish?

Well, we can analyze Q's shown abilities, but the last time we did that, I vaguely recall a flamepit of a thread..

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-09-19 06:35pm

PzGren wrote:I roamed through the "hatemail" section (quite amusing), and most "offenders" start off by introducing themselves as academics of various kinds.

They ended up on teh hate mail page after multiple exchanges with the owner of the webpage. They ended up there because they repeatedly demonstrated that they were complete morons and their claims of "superior education" didn't mean jack/were false. You have done none of this. Don't worry about it (yet

).

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