DWvsATJ commentary thread.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-09-20 10:10pm

SirNitram wrote:The 'okay it doesnt vaporize but you cant explain it either so i r teh win' is quite common(He even used a 'cool mist' excuse to try and keep vaporization calc's) of him.

The obsession over a bent rod of durasteel is, in fact, one of the more amusing pieces of total bullshit G2k came up with. See, he relies on us not having read the actual passage. It's a rod of durasteel, whereas the neutronium-impregnated uber-armour is duraarmor. Easy to miss, if you let him mislead you.

Actually, I'm aware of several sources that indicate that durasteel and dura-armor are of similar composition (EG Cracken's Threat Dossier.)

We should note that he neglected the fact that Mike has estimated durasteel density at a minimum of 20,000 kg*m^3 based on conservative estimates of IG-88's dimensions and the stated fact he was "multi ton".

The rest is simply being condescending(He seems to have read alot of DS's personal attacks on Mike and taken them to heart) and evading the point. Nothing we haven't seen before. He's only unique in his ridiculously long pauses; I assume he's either in correspondance with Darkstar, or furiously studying DS's webpage for possible outs.

What I find interesting is that he's using tensile strength to argue for weak thermal properties. Even if we allow that this material somehow bends easily or can be even literally ripped apart, what bearing does this have on the ease or difficulty with which it is melted or vaporized, both of which are relevant to blaster firepower!

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-09-20 10:15pm

Well, I tried to do a response to his post, but I just gave up about 1/4th of the way through.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-09-20 10:17pm

anarchistbunny wrote:Well, I tried to do a response to his post, but I just gave up about 1/4th of the way through.

Mostly there's nothing to say that isn't a repitition, which will elict a nice whine from him.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-20 10:25pm

anarchistbunny wrote:Well, I tried to do a response to his post, but I just gave up about 1/4th of the way through.

Yeah, ita a LOT of bullshit. When I pasted it into Word to run a spellcheck, it registered at 11 pages, and I didn't even go into alot of detail rebutting his stuff.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-20 10:51pm

I just read through his turgid response and all I an say is that the kid has no clue what he's gotten himself into. I shook my head or simply laughed out loud several times.

One of my faves is "Name one time Stormtoopers used their blasters to blast through anything and NO the DS1 is not a good example because the door was still intact" OK what the FUCK?! How did the Stormtroopers get THROUGH the door if it was still intact? To quote Tyler Durdon "Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken." You can't just declare something so ass backwards as fact. And what about the opening moments of ANH with the Tantive IV's airlock? What an ass.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-09-20 11:01pm

But we didn't see both sides of the airlock! They probably used explosives! Lots of them!

You have to prove that they only used blasters!

etc.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-09-20 11:34pm

Connor MacLeod wrote: What I find interesting is that he's using tensile strength to argue for weak thermal properties. Even if we allow that this material somehow bends easily or can be even literally ripped apart, what bearing does this have on the ease or difficulty with which it is melted or vaporized, both of which are relevant to blaster firepower!

I noticed that, too.

That doesn't surprise me, though...he's obviously a no-math kind of guy, and believes that "toughness" covers all of the relevant bases

To this end, he tried to speculate about tritanium's thermal tolerances based on dust particle impacts. He quickly qualified that claim by noting that the nav deflectors take care of such things.

In spite of that recognition, he went on to say, "But the hull must still be tough!" That's a text-book example of begging the question, especially when we have reason to believe that the hull materials don't need to stop dust or micro-meteroids.

That they could is a red herring, since it demonstrates precisely dick about their melting point, latent heat of vaporization, etc.

It's pretty fuckin' dumb, but that's one of the kid's more original contentions...much of the rest just reads like a bad re-run of trollish arguments and tactics we've all no doubt heard countless times over the years:

--turbolasers are lasers because they're called lasers

--phasers really are DET weapons because they make stuff disappear!

--the EU is non-canon and inadmissable for our purposes

--the EU is the only source for blasters, turbolasers et al. of great firepower

--his own willingness to pick through the EU when he believes it suits his purposes

--episode name citations (even when wrong...there is no VGR episode by the title "Insurrection Alpha") are sufficient; quotes are superfluous

--wall of ignorance: tell him anything, no matter how truthful, and he's too damn stubborn to recognize when he's bested

--blatant straw man fallacies; e.g., his distortion of Mike's position to mean that "phasers can't penetrate metal," summarily "rebuffed" by the laughable example of making a kilogram cooking pot disappear. (Special note: he claims Saavik, who wasn't in Trek 6, did this. That and his erroneous episode title lead me to...)

--shit knowledge of the subject matter. Even today, many Trekkies get the most basic details wrong...it's not always relevant, but indicative of their general ineptitude nonetheless

--ferrocrete, like concrete, is "easy" to shatter because it's "primitive" (or somesuch...that's the implication of His Lamebrainedness' claims)

--argue from the dictionary/try to quibble about semantics. Trekkies and Fivers would have little to do if denied this cheesy route

--thinks he's special/intelligent/brings a fresh perspective to things. HA!

And so on, and so forth. I have to commend Lord Mike for having the patience to wade through that junk. After being in the vs. community for 6 years, I find myself almost physically incapable of exposing myself to quite that much nonsense anymore.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-20 11:40pm

I hate stating the obvious but Mike jusy POWNED the little turd, complete with pretty pictures. It was fucking SWEET reading that reponse unlike the low points of the Wong debates with Darkstar which were painful to read because of Dorkstar's inability to be brief or make a point.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-09-20 11:43pm

Anyone going to give a guess of the last two pics? I never actually dived into these things but do the two pics refute that the building materials are weak?~Jason

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2003-09-21 12:06am

Stravo wrote:I hate stating the obvious but Mike jusy POWNED the little turd, complete with pretty pictures. It was fucking SWEET reading that reponse unlike the low points of the Wong debates with Darkstar which were painful to read because of Dorkstar's inability to be brief or make a point.

Personally, I howled at that picture pointing out Dust and Concrete

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-21 12:08am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Stravo wrote:I hate stating the obvious but Mike jusy POWNED the little turd, complete with pretty pictures. It was fucking SWEET reading that reponse unlike the low points of the Wong debates with Darkstar which were painful to read because of Dorkstar's inability to be brief or make a point.
Personally, I howled at that picture pointing out Dust and Concrete

My personal fave was the intact door arguiment that irked me so much. The picture says it all and makes him look like such a lying little sack of shit

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2003-09-21 12:23am

Stravo wrote:
Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Stravo wrote:I hate stating the obvious but Mike jusy POWNED the little turd, complete with pretty pictures. It was fucking SWEET reading that reponse unlike the low points of the Wong debates with Darkstar which were painful to read because of Dorkstar's inability to be brief or make a point.
Personally, I howled at that picture pointing out Dust and Concrete
My personal fave was the intact door arguiment that irked me so much. The picture says it all and makes him look like such a lying little sack of shit

On a mildly related note, does anybody have a guess as to how thick that door is? It'd be interesting to work out how much kick would be needed to blow it apart like that.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-09-21 12:59am

Soontir C'boath wrote:Anyone going to give a guess of the last two pics? I never actually dived into these things but do the two pics refute that the building materials are weak?~Jason

Well, it certainly proves the Docking Bay's not made of dirt. Dirt doesn't shine white, and you can't sculpt it into those shapes. I can't think of any other off the top of my head. Then again, I've been up for a long time, and I know I'm not thinking totally clearly.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-21 01:27am

Worlds Spanner wrote:But we didn't see both sides of the airlock! They probably used explosives! Lots of them!

You have to prove that they only used blasters!

etc.

Course, EU sources have already mentioned high energy blasters being used to cut open doors for boarding, while there is no mention of explosives. So even if he tired that bit its already dead.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-21 01:54am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Worlds Spanner wrote:But we didn't see both sides of the airlock! They probably used explosives! Lots of them!

You have to prove that they only used blasters!

etc.
Course, EU sources have already mentioned high energy blasters being used to cut open doors for boarding, while there is no mention of explosives. So even if he tired that bit its already dead.

NTM dialogue from ANH:

"Lock the door."

"And hope they don't have blasters."

"That isn't very reassuring."

AJT has just had his ass handed to him. There's really no other way to put things. ALL of his arguments were shown to be bullshit, right down to his "Mike Wong does everything that I don't do" approach to debating.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-09-21 02:07am

The Dark wrote:
Soontir C'boath wrote:Anyone going to give a guess of the last two pics? I never actually dived into these things but do the two pics refute that the building materials are weak?~Jason
Well, it certainly proves the Docking Bay's not made of dirt. Dirt doesn't shine white, and you can't sculpt it into those shapes. I can't think of any other off the top of my head. Then again, I've been up for a long time, and I know I'm not thinking totally clearly.

the only other materials that would work are sandstones and granites. plain dirt make a losy building material.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-09-21 02:09am

"The metal door which began to move aside was as thick as her body- as if, she mused bitteryl, they were afraid she might break through anything less massive with her bare hands." ANH novelization page 83

"Turning his pistol to maximum and hoping it wouldn't melt in his hand before it broke through, he opened fire on the door. When the weapon became too hot to hold, he tossed it from hand to hand. As he did so the smoke had time to clear, and he saw twith some surprise that the door had been blown away. ANH novel, page 144

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-09-21 02:12am

Lando Calrissian and the Flamewind of Oseon, page 208
"Beneath the long thick plumage of his stubby left arm- a vestigial wing useless for flight long ages before his people had chipped their first crude stone tools-Fybot wore a small energy-projector that was something of an advance on Bassi Vobah's openly sported blaster. Half the military weapon's size, it had six times the power, coming close, in theory, to one of the modules of Lando's four-barreled quad gun. The projector was a Service Special and a closely guarded secret, even from the regular military."

"Even one handed, the officer was a good shot with a blaster rifle. No sooner had the black shape started flying toward him than he began to pour fire into it, melting the plastoid bottles and instantly superheating several dozen liters of water. Billowing vapor filled the corridor."

Tattooine Ghost page 226

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-09-21 03:47am

The thing I find hilarious (Aside from Mikes illustration of dirt vs. concrete ROFLMMFAO!!!) is that nearly EVERY SINGLE one of the little fuckwads arguments are addressed on Mike's Site i.e. turbolaser commentaries. I love how he tries to justify that turbolaser must be laser because they are called that.
I surmise the actual name of turbolasers are unweildly and would take too long to say, much in the same way in the military We never said 5.56 MM air-cooled, belt-fed, gas-operated automatic weapon that fires from the open-bolt position, we call it an M249 or, more simply a SAW. While it could cut a small tree down, I doubt anyone would want a sofa or hutch where the carpenter used this as a tool.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-21 06:31am

Ah well...he came and went...and did provide some amusement.

Though now looking at this latest of Mike slamming the little twat; gotta wonder where his bluster about showing us idiots that he knows the truth and will shine as a beacon of logic?

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-09-21 08:43am

Stravo wrote:My personal fave was the intact door arguiment that irked me so much. The picture says it all and makes him look like such a lying little sack of shit

Although it isn't nearly as impressive as the door example, Leia blasting the grating to get into the trash compactor is another example of blasters being used to blast apart obsticles.

Once in there, Han is the second person to try blasting through the door. It's clear that everyone there expects blasters to get through most normal metallic doors.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-09-21 09:16am

Ouch...

Ouch, Ouch, OUTCH!

AJT is relly...well...you can guess what I was about to say.

I really hope, that when this is over, that Mike will put it in his hate mail page. This wouls be a excellent addition to it.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-09-21 12:53pm

Worlds Spanner wrote:But we didn't see both sides of the airlock! They probably used explosives! Lots of them!

You have to prove that they only used blasters!

etc.

Actually, Trektards really used tto argue this. Now you tell me; you have an 5 by 5 enclosed elevator with about 4 stormtroopers in it. And you want to use an explosive to blast open the elevator doors...

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-09-21 01:42pm

Since no-else seems to have mentioned it, AJT can't even get his Trek facts straight. Saavik doesn't appear at all in ST:VI let alone phaser something. I beleive AJT is referring to Valeris.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-09-21 01:49pm

Lord Poe wrote:Actually, Trektards really used tto argue this. Now you tell me; you have an 5 by 5 enclosed elevator with about 4 stormtroopers in it. And you want to use an explosive to blast open the elevator doors...

Hmmm, I'd say that about sums it up.