DWvsATJ commentary thread.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-21 02:11pm

Lord Poe wrote:Actually, Trektards really used tto argue this. Now you tell me; you have an 5 by 5 enclosed elevator with about 4 stormtroopers in it. And you want to use an explosive to blast open the elevator doors...

That's pretty well refuted by the quick deployment of the stormtroopers (they rigged the door with explosives that quickly?), and by the ANH dialogue I mentioned earlier, and by Han and Luke's use of the blaster on the door of the garbage unit.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-21 06:08pm

My God, that was a sad argument. Darkstar is much better.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-09-21 06:13pm

Well, since it's commentary...

Y'all keep screwing up his initials. It's AJT, Andrew Joshua Talon. The way you got it, it's like saying Anti-Troll Jihad vs Darth Wong.

End pointless nitpick/humorous observation.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2003-09-21 06:51pm

Since the doors are holographic, you don't even know what they're supposed to be made of so you're reduced to idle speculation, and they're not even intended to serve as blast doors, this is just another waste of breath on your part.

The phaser is also holographic, and (unless Seska made the phaser more powerful than the real thing, or the door weaker) holodecks simulate how machines should actually work based on their specs. Hence their use in testing the Delta Flyer's controls, the Warp 10 engine, and the quantum slipstream drive. And Picard did obliterate the door to the Scimitar's bridge with a phaser rifle. Which then broke in half against a Reman skull, which is just inexcusable. And "rifle," like "vapourize," seems to be a colloquialism in Trek rather than a technical term. Much as the folders on my hard drive aren't actually made of manila. Phasers do just that - they phase a set percentage of a target's atoms out of space-time. Lower settings cause radiation burns, higher settings phase out all of the target's atoms, or enough that the remainder is vapour. This colloqualism could also apply to turbolasers - they may have some component that uses a laser (I tend to think they somehow use lasers to deliver plasma that does the actual damage), or they may simply be called turbolasers to get across the point of what they do.

That's a range of about five metres at most, pal. That's what we normally call "spitting distance". And the guy not only sauntered across the hallway, but he even took a few seconds to stand still at the entrance to the crawlspace and glare at Riker with contempt before diving in! Clearly, the Alpha Quadrant powers are in awe of the marksmanship (not to mention fictitious auto-aiming systems) of the mighty Federation's soldiers. And these were two of their best people: Worf and Riker!

I don't buy any of this scene, myself. Johnathan Archer has stun grenades, but we don't? We're chatting about Romulan culture long enough for their first shots to get PAST us? We don't remember that our last ship had FORCEFIELDS in the hallways? We can't come up behind them or depressurize the section they're in? And yes, any idiot with a Saturday Night Special would have blown the Viceroy's head off. Riker can shoot the disruptor out of his hand, and not hit his fucking CHEST?

Your "surefire evidence" is your assumption that Trek materials are far stronger than Imperial materials even though the Feds can't make a 600m long ship which won't sag like Joan Rivers' wrinkled tits in Earth gravity (TM pg. 19) while 700m Acclamators can easily take off and land on Coruscant. Nice of you to simply ignore all of my counterpoints and pretend that insulting you is all I had to offer, though.

Since when are Trek technical manuals canon? And yes, I do set my own standard of what is or isn't "canon."

On range: you have not even ATTEMPTED to establish greater range for phasers. In fact, we have seen SW blasters being used at ranges of several kilometres (AOTC); when have we seen this kind of range being used with ST phasers?

Used effectively at ranges of several kilometers? Or blindly fired into the dust cloud surrounding the droid armies with no indication of the results? The latter.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2003-09-21 07:21pm

Insurrection Alpha is the name of a holodeck program from a Voyager episode (which I've seen). I don't remember the name of the episode itself, but the story is more or less as follows.

Paris finds an incomplete, but highly entertaining holoprogram about the Maquis taking over the ship, and it's discovered that Tuvok wrote it as a tactical scenario. When Tom and Tuvok try to reopen the file to finish the story, it turns out that Seska rewrote the program to get revenge (ridiculous, I think, but there you have it) on Tuvok for betraying the Maquis. So her holo-doppelganger is chasing them through the murderously revised program while the holographic crew tortures them for shits and giggles, and the real crew tries to add things to the program that will help Tom and Tuvok escape.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-09-21 08:33pm

RogueIce wrote:Well, since it's commentary...

Y'all keep screwing up his initials. It's AJT, Andrew Joshua Talon. The way you got it, it's like saying Anti-Troll Jihad vs Darth Wong.

End pointless nitpick/humorous observation.

The moderators refer to the afore mentioned as being ATJ, so goddamn, his name is ATJ.

Andrew Talon Joshua.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-09-21 08:36pm

Metrion Cascade wrote: Since when are Trek technical manuals canon? And yes, I do set my own standard of what is or isn't "canon."

They aren't Canon, but our resident idiot here demands we accept them.

And I wouldn't 'set your own standard', as both Paramount and Lucasfilm have made statements on what their standard is, and understandably, their standards overrule yours.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-09-21 08:49pm

BTW, the doors on the E-D were easily bashed down when LaForge was thrown through them in "Conspiracy". And LaForge got up and wasn't seriously injured at all.

Doors on the E-E were basheddown by Borg, who haven't shown superhuman strength.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-09-21 09:10pm

The only doors that even compare to the doors in Star Wars are the outer doors of the ship's shuttle bays. This is the only place with any real sustantial door except the big doors that seals off Engineering when they have a hull breach. Star Trek Doors are no thicker than 2 in at the most. As such their not useful for anything as far as security goes because they are way too easy to break down.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-09-21 11:00pm

Lord Poe wrote:Doors on the E-E were basheddown by Borg, who haven't shown superhuman strength.

Is this right?

I vaugly seem to recall way back when in TNG, when the Borg were new and cool, Data was only just as strong as Borg, and IIRC Data most certainly does have superhuman strengh.

Not that this is in any way relevant.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-09-21 11:29pm

The fact that the E-E has access ports that lead to the Jeffery tubes that any fool can open and climb into makes it even worse for the Federation's security situation.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-09-22 12:19am

Metrion Cascade wrote:Used effectively at ranges of several kilometers? Or blindly fired into the dust cloud surrounding the droid armies with no indication of the results? The latter.

I seem to recall the Clone Troopers' rifle fire moving through the Droid Army formations at roughly level height, even when both sides was blanketed by dust. Then there's also the Rebel's big mounted rifles (see bottom center and bottom right) getting similar accuracy against AT-ATs at over 17km range.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-22 01:08am

Lord of the Farce wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:Used effectively at ranges of several kilometers? Or blindly fired into the dust cloud surrounding the droid armies with no indication of the results? The latter.
I seem to recall the Clone Troopers' rifle fire moving through the Droid Army formations at roughly level height, even when both sides was blanketed by dust. Then there's also the Rebel's big mounted rifles (see bottom center and bottom right) getting similar accuracy against AT-ATs at over 17km range.

And as I pointed out in the other thread, they were engaging at multi km ranges long before hte coreships were brought down.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-09-22 01:12am

Ender wrote:And as I pointed out in the other thread, they were engaging at multi km ranges long before hte coreships were brought down.

And (even) when they were covered by the dust, we didn't see any shots suddenly hitting the ground way short of target, and they were still advancing at a steady pace.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-22 09:26am

Howedar wrote:My God, that was a sad argument. Darkstar is much better.

Actually, AJT's arguments are basically copied and pasted from Darkstar's website. Even the unbelievably stupid "Docking Bay 94 was a dirt pit" argument comes from Darkstar. The only difference between the two is that Darkstar is better at minimizing the actual substance of the argument in favour of endless sidetracks.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-09-22 01:22pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Howedar wrote:My God, that was a sad argument. Darkstar is much better.
Actually, AJT's arguments are basically copied and pasted from Darkstar's website. Even the unbelievably stupid "Docking Bay 94 was a dirt pit" argument comes from Darkstar. The only difference between the two is that Darkstar is better at minimizing the actual substance of the argument in favour of endless sidetracks.

I wouldn't be surprised if AJT simply e-mails DarkStar your posts and then simply posts RSA's replies.

AJT may even be RSA's mole since I know for a fact that DS is aware of at least a few of the things in the HOS.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-22 01:45pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Howedar wrote:My God, that was a sad argument. Darkstar is much better.
Actually, AJT's arguments are basically copied and pasted from Darkstar's website. Even the unbelievably stupid "Docking Bay 94 was a dirt pit" argument comes from Darkstar. The only difference between the two is that Darkstar is better at minimizing the actual substance of the argument in favour of endless sidetracks.
I wouldn't be surprised if AJT simply e-mails DarkStar your posts and then simply posts RSA's replies.

AJT may even be RSA's mole since I know for a fact that DS is aware of at least a few of the things in the HOS.

Bobby has stated on SB he has another account here. His claims of moles were lies.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-09-22 01:50pm

Ender wrote:Bobby has stated on SB he has another account here. His claims of moles were lies.

Any idea which account it is?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-09-22 01:53pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Ender wrote:Bobby has stated on SB he has another account here. His claims of moles were lies.
Any idea which account it is?

I've got a pretty damn good idea...

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-22 02:10pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Ender wrote:Bobby has stated on SB he has another account here. His claims of moles were lies.
Any idea which account it is?

I'd imagine one created shortly after he was banned and never used to post.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-09-22 02:17pm

Ender wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:
Ender wrote:Bobby has stated on SB he has another account here. His claims of moles were lies.
Any idea which account it is?
I'd imagine one created shortly after he was banned and never used to post.

DW has purged unused accounts multiple times since then.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-22 02:20pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Ender wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:Any idea which account it is?
I'd imagine one created shortly after he was banned and never used to post.
DW has purged unused accounts multiple times since then.

Fuck if I know then.

I suppose its' possible he is lying about having an account there to try and make him look supersmart for getting ariound the ban.

Or he made one cursory post or something.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-09-22 03:39pm

SirNitram wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:
Ender wrote:Bobby has stated on SB he has another account here. His claims of moles were lies.
Any idea which account it is?
I've got a pretty damn good idea...

WITCH HUNT TIME!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-09-22 03:42pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:Any idea which account it is?
I've got a pretty damn good idea...
WITCH HUNT TIME!

What else are we gonna do with all the kindling?

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-09-22 03:50pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Howedar wrote:My God, that was a sad argument. Darkstar is much better.
Actually, AJT's arguments are basically copied and pasted from Darkstar's website. Even the unbelievably stupid "Docking Bay 94 was a dirt pit" argument comes from Darkstar. The only difference between the two is that Darkstar is better at minimizing the actual substance of the argument in favour of endless sidetracks.

I don't know if he leaves substance in really since he just repeats the same nonsense (whether it actually applies or not) many times over. While it looks like he's trying to put something substanative, if incorrect, into the debate he constatnly uses it to try and cover his diversion attempts.