DARTH WONG

[Mad]

I think we probably disagree on the definition of intelligence. I note that his methods have not evolved at all after his initial attempt to basically copy the tactics of Timothy Jones and certain forms of pseudoscientific language (in fact, he seems to have gotten worse), and the ability to learn and grow is basically intelligence. Perhaps one might argue that he is intelligent if you are working with some other definition of intelligence (eg- capable of using tools, not drooling on himself).

I'm not sure how much actual intelligence (learning, growing, adapting) he has... but he definitely has something. DarkStar certainly has a gift for imitation, which may make him look intelligent to anyone who skims through his arguments without actually reading them. His long-winded arguments encourage people to skim his arguments instead of thinking critically about them.

It's possible that he knows his arguments are weak and so sets things up accordingly with a deliberate leaning towards style over substance. I think that dishonesty and stubborness are most likely his major character faults, not necessarily a lack of intelligence.

[Ender]

Why would he?

Maybe because I demonstrated CLEARLY that some of his conclusions were objectively wrong (ie. That the reflected blaster bolts richocheted off of reflective surfaces since they are "glorified lasers"--shown wrong by a screen-cap of a blaster bolt being deflected by the GROUND in TPM).

You're right, though, since to modify his pages in response to my critique would show integrity, there's really no reason to expect him to change much on his site in response to anything I say.

He told me over a month ago that my points in regards to the MCR theory were easily defeated and laughable. He said that he would update his site in response to those. That was a MONTH AGO. Now, granted, updating a website takes time, but he's updated his site since then and working on vs. debates on SB.com and elsewhere, and frankly if my points were so easily defeated it shouldn't take much time to defeat them (particularly in light of the fact that he complains whenever similar objections are raised).

Did he atleast update that he challenged you to do the analysis of his site yet? that always kills me that he challenged you inorder to lie about it to make it look like he got his own version of "wong is Wrong" to try and emulate this place even more.

[MKSheppard]

*birds chirp*

"Uhm, what happened to AJT?"

[Ender]

Trolls don't seem to be cut from the same cloth as their master Darkstar. Now there was a troll who knew how to take a beating and come right back for more. Damnit why can't this new generation of slacker trolls show some of the same gumption. I fear that like the blood of Numenor, the blood of the megatrolls is spent.

What we need is a nice crop of fiver trolls. It's like deer, you see? In the off season, you go out every day and throw out a bunch of corn and stuff. The deer come daily and eat there. Then season rolls around, and the deer still come there daily, and you can just pop them.

Now I'm thinking we go into OSF, spread around some AOG, the technomage trilogies, toss around some of the old TT level 2 MT device calcs and MT level starfury claims, give it a few months and whabam, nice set of trolls to go hunting.

[Master of Ossus]

Did he atleast update that he challenged you to do the analysis of his site yet? that always kills me that he challenged you inorder to lie about it to make it look like he got his own version of "wong is Wrong" to try and emulate this place even more.

No. He still claims on his website that he was completely unprepared for my "massive attack" on his site, even though I told him a specific time-frame for when I was going to post my rebuttal. As it was, I was a few days late because I didn't realize that Mike was going to add his own comments to the debate, but his claims of ignorance are utterly erroneous. Here's what actually happened:

1. I decided I had had enough of DarkStar's bullshit, and decided to debunk his website.
2. I went on SD.net, and asked fellow vs. debaters (specifically asking Trekkies and Fivers to join, if they were so inclined), to help me.
3. DarkStar found out about this, declared it a "Warsie Jihad" against his website, and challenged me to debunk his website by myself.
4. I thought about it, and eventually accepted. Originally, I had intended that I would rebut the entire website, allowing everyone else to make a separate rebuttal, but no one else bothered, so I went back on SD.net and posted that I accepted DarkStar's challenge and was going to rebut the whole of his website on my own. I also told him to expect my rebuttal in about a month.
5. I made my rebuttal, and sent it to Mike a little less than a month after I made that post.
6. About a week later, Mike posted it on the internet for all to see, replete with his own observations and additions to my original text.
7. DarkStar began his long rants about how wrong it was of me to make such a rebuttal, claiming it was a "scattergun" attack, dishonest, sneak-attack, etc. etc. etc.
8. DarkStar then floundered coming up with a rebuttal (even attacking my freaking preface), ranted some more about how dishonest I was to do such a thing, how much I hated him, etc. etc. etc., and I decided nothing more had to be done.
9. Since then, DarkStar has launched a series of increasingly bizarre attacks against SD.net, and especially against Mike Wong (ie. "The Morality of Wong").
10. When I saw DarkStar on SB.com, after being repeatedly asked to join the site by various members (thanks go in particular to Alyeska), he claimed I was following him around the internet trying to attack him everywhere at once. We got into a debate regarding his MCR theory, and I challenged him to explain how it predicted the rings. He came up with nothing. After a few rounds, he said I was wrong and that he would update his site. I figured that since he didn't even try to make a rebuttal on SB.com, I could expect a rebuttal fairly soon (particularly since I gave him a fairly specific time-frame when he challenged me to attack his site).

When he went on posting on another vs. thread without actually debunking my claims, I asked when he was going to update his site and reminded him about his promise. He claimed that he was going to get to it, but refused to establish a time period.
11. Regardless, a few weeks passed and nothing happened. I asked DarkStar about where his rebuttal of my stupid arguments was (figuring that since my arguments and claims were so crappy they should be easy to debunk). Honestly, updating a website is a chore, but it's not that much of a chore. Mike emended my text rebutting DarkStar's ENTIRE SITE in less than a week. Moreover, Anderson copped out of the original debate with me in part because he was allegedly tired of getting into debates about the MCR theory, and wanted to collect his thoughts in a single place (ie. the debate would take too much time, since it kept coming up).

BTW, Anderson has also claimed that he's ALREADY addressed my criticisms of his MCR theory. If this is true, I wonder why he can't simply copy-paste the relevant text from one part of his hard-drive to another. Regardless, I am still waiting for his counter-attack (I'll be back from vacation pretty soon). And so the lines are drawn.

[Anarchist Bunny]

*birds chirp*

"Uhm, what happened to AJT?"

Daddy probly hasn't let him on.

[Gandalf]

I have to disagree with you on that one. Having waded through Darkstar's piles of shit and debated with him at length about them, its clear to me the man is far from stupid. The way I see it, he just picked sides a long time ago and has been categorically unable to admit defeat. He has done some extremely stupid things to try to uphold his position, but I think RSA himself is not a stupid person.

I wish to agree with you. If I'd found Darkstar's site before this one I'd be just like him too.

Why, then, do his fanboys invariably turn out to be idiots? Anyone who is convinced by his site would undoubtedly find his state of credulity to be only temporary as soon as he discovers any of the common rebuttals. Those who stick with him even after seeing rebuttals to his material can only be morons.

I agree with you there, but for some people, it's far easier to just be stubborn and refuse to admit defeat.
Think of it this way, the fanboys are like fundies, they love their "God"(Trek), and don't like the sight of it as being beaten by the reason sd.net shows. Nor it's Federation getting beaten by the Empire. So they go back to DS seeking his soothing words that Trek is in fact still superior. Here we meet the "Wall of Ignorance." There is no amount of reason that can break through that. And the "Atheists of Trekism," from their perspectives, need enlightenment.

Essentially, we've all dug in, and now to fight on, and never surrender.

[PainRack]

And unlike you, many others actually remember and honour Connor Macleod for his debating contributions, like his feat in making the idiotator Rvalencia swear.

LOL! Really? Good job, Connor!

Thanks. I believe I suffered severe trauma in the process. I'll never be quite the same again.

Hey, I had to go back and forth over every single issue in Darksaber with him over and over. I had to keep calling him a liar and that he's changing his stand and issue over hyperdrive, subspace, turbolasers, communications, jamming, Naboo, Tatooine, Darth Maul, Sidious, Luke X-wing............

I'm still okay. Of course, that's if you consider what I was before I debated with Rval a normal and healthy state of being.

[PainRack]

I'm not sure how much actual intelligence (learning, growing, adapting) he has... but he definitely has something. DarkStar certainly has a gift for imitation, which may make him look intelligent to anyone who skims through his arguments without actually reading them. His long-winded arguments encourage people to skim his arguments instead of thinking critically about them.

It's possible that he knows his arguments are weak and so sets things up accordingly with a deliberate leaning towards style over substance. I think that dishonesty and stubborness are most likely his major character faults, not necessarily a lack of intelligence.

I will agree with you here. Notice how fast he is to jump over issues that are totally irrelevent and gloss over the issues, and how fast he updates his site during those periods when he thinks he can prove someone else wrong.

For example, he updated his phaser page the next day after we had the argument over blaster weaknesses. I said that if a blaster is weak caused it burned Leia, then so are phasers. Got dragged into some miscellaneus debate that went off point, and the next day, a full page rebuttal of everything, designed to make me look like a fool.

I still really don't know how I got suckered into making some of the points I did make. Threw the whole debate off the core topics I did wish to discuss, into areas where he could twist words and points I made.

[Lord Poe]

I'm still okay. Of course, that's if you consider what I was before I debated with Rval a normal and healthy state of being.

I've smacked rvalencia down a few times as well. He keeps bringing up the radiation issue in "The Crystal Star", and then refuses to acknowledge that this was a SEVERE case, since the Falcon flew through the destruction of red giants and massed black holes before with no problem. He simply ignores this and waits a month before reposting his bullshit again.

[Lord Poe]

For example, he updated his phaser page the next day after we had the argument over blaster weaknesses. I said that if a blaster is weak caused it burned Leia, then so are phasers. Got dragged into some miscellaneus debate that went off point, and the next day, a full page rebuttal of everything, designed to make me look like a fool.

He' a fucking pussy. He used my rebuttal image of Crusher's shoulder on fire from a pjhaser blast that refutes the Leia shoulder hit in ROTJ to attempt to justify some bullshit "Duh, Data's phaser was on very very vry low power becuzz the beam wasn't as thick as one other scene I found a few hundred episodes later".

[2000AD]

GOddammit where's the debate? I come in here looking for "smackdown" and there's nothing!

If ATJ doesn't show up soon can the ATJ be reformed to hunt him down?

[Darth Wong]

I think we've milked as much entertainment as we possibly can from this little pussy. It would have been nice if he'd lasted more than ONE ROUND, though. That's just shameful.

[DocHorror]

I think he was just some troll who thought he could take on the big leages...

The fool should have known he'd get man-slapped back down to britteny..

badger!

[Ender]

Is he going to be added to the Hate mail page, or is he not a big enough fish?

[PainRack]

For example, he updated his phaser page the next day after we had the argument over blaster weaknesses. I said that if a blaster is weak caused it burned Leia, then so are phasers. Got dragged into some miscellaneus debate that went off point, and the next day, a full page rebuttal of everything, designed to make me look like a fool.

He' a fucking pussy. He used my rebuttal image of Crusher's shoulder on fire from a pjhaser blast that refutes the Leia shoulder hit in ROTJ to attempt to justify some bullshit "Duh, Data's phaser was on very very vry low power becuzz the beam wasn't as thick as one other scene I found a few hundred episodes later".

The bullshit in question was involved with a rebutal over SB. Anyway, he was claiming that blasters were inferior to small arms because the blaster shot only wounded Leia arm. Thus, phasers are superior.

I made the point that if we are to base the whole example of blaster firepower on that sole incident, then Crusher being blasted means a phaser is even weaker. Since basing the whole argument on one sole incident was FUBAR, his argument was FUBAR.

He then made the points I was trying to state, claimed victory, rewrote the whole argument and twisted it into some format that was totally different from what we posted and put it up on his site to say the Warsies are wrong.

I think that's ample proof enough that he's a dishonest bastard as whenever he thinks he's right, he update his site extremely fast. Whenever he can't post anything as a rebuttal, he clams up.

heh, I still remember how extreme he was. I made the claim that the Senate had 1024 senators, based on the Cinemax article that stated that there were 1024 pods in the Senate as made by ILM. He rebutted that the article was EU, and thus not admissable.

As for how stupid he is, when I used the words Mach to describe the X-wing velocity in Yavin IV, he responded that I was dumb enough to believe that sound can travel in space.

[Lord Poe]

He then made the points I was trying to state, claimed victory, rewrote the whole argument and twisted it into some format that was totally different from what we posted and put it up on his site to say the Warsies are wrong.

That's what his whole website is about. I challenge ONE Darkstar supporter to bring up ONE CLAIM on his website that is true or viable in any way.

I think that's ample proof enough that he's a dishonest bastard as whenever he thinks he's right, he update his site extremely fast. Whenever he can't post anything as a rebuttal, he clams up.

Yup, as we are seeing with MoO, and he has ducked SPOOFE numerous times as well. I'm glad these guys have the fortitude to stick on his ass like a tick! Its fun to watch!

heh, I still remember how extreme he was. I made the claim that the Senate had 1024 senators, based on the Cinemax article that stated that there were 1024 pods in the Senate as made by ILM. He rebutted that the article was EU, and thus not admissable.

Fucking dickhead.

As for how stupid he is, when I used the words Mach to describe the X-wing velocity in Yavin IV, he responded that I was dumb enough to believe that sound can travel in space.

LOL!!

[Ender]

Alot of his stuf is based off ignoring other evidence.

His torp page ignores that Alliances and Nemesis contradict the expanding torp glow as the size doesn't match in alliances and in nemesis we see the physical torp inside, when an expanding glow would obscure it. He further ignores the fact that we've seen shields crap out at ~50 MT, and a ship can take multiple torp hits to the shields, so that dopesn't work, then he ignores all the low yield examples.


Phasers vs Blasters he uses the sole SW example, deliberately ignoring that it has been pointed out he is misinterpreating his reading of the ANH novel, that we see the clone rifles blowing apart battledroids, that we see holes the size of Mark Hamil's head blown is the walls at Cloud City, and displays his complete and total ignorance of thermodynamics and physical reactions of vaporization in relation to phasers.

Laird proved he was a lying little shit in regards to stormie armor (interesitng that he uses extremely small pics on his site for that part so it is dificult to make out, no?)

He gutted a quote from me, changing what I said from supporting Saxton to indicating dishonesty (and defended it on being "asetetically pleasing")

The list goes on.

[Ender]

He then made the points I was trying to state, claimed victory, rewrote the whole argument and twisted it into some format that was totally different from what we posted and put it up on his site to say the Warsies are wrong.

That's what his whole website is about. I challenge ONE Darkstar supporter to bring up ONE CLAIM on his website that is true or viable in any way.

Well, there is that page on Phaser Rifles...oh wait, he didn't write that

[Darth Servo]

BTW, Anderson has also claimed that he's ALREADY addressed my criticisms of his MCR theory. If this is true, I wonder why he can't simply copy-paste the relevant text from one part of his hard-drive to another. Regardless, I am still waiting for his counter-attack (I'll be back from vacation pretty soon). And so the lines are drawn.

Actually there is a subpage in his "battle of Britain" that "addresses" your rebuttal but as expected, he just repeats his same old claims ad nauseum.

Here's some amusing tidbits:

The existence of these rings, and their behavior, is not accurately described by the DET theory, suggesting that DET is in fact an incomplete theory.

I'm amazed he said that . . . Wong would've rather died during the debate than confess that fact.

Right there, a verifiable lie.

In order to explain away the rings, they must be chalked up to _______ for BOTH of our theories.

In other words, you cannot explain how your MCR produces the fire rings, just as I cannot explain how a conventional process might produce the fire rings.

He has one or two new bits though which is more crap. My favorite:

[regarding his lack of a mechanism for his theory] Or that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was neither a theory nor even valuable in the slightest because he didn't have DNA to work with, as the mechanism of heredity and change.

Darwin DID have a mechanism. Natural selection. Once again, DS is either dilibrately misleading, or blatently stupid.

[Laird]

Laird proved he was a lying little shit in regards to stormie armor (interesitng that he uses extremely small pics on his site for that part so it is dificult to make out, no?)

LIES!!! ALL LIES!!!!

[Lord Pounder]

Laird proved he was a lying little shit in regards to stormie armor (interesitng that he uses extremely small pics on his site for that part so it is dificult to make out, no?)

LIES!!! ALL LIES!!!!

SPAM!!! ALL SPAM!!!!

Refute the claim or STFU

[Ender]

Laird proved he was a lying little shit in regards to stormie armor (interesitng that he uses extremely small pics on his site for that part so it is dificult to make out, no?)

LIES!!! ALL LIES!!!!

SPAM!!! ALL SPAM!!!!

Refute the claim or STFU

He is speaking from Bobby's position dude.

[Lord Pounder]

oops my bad

NOTE TO THE BOARD: Never post when drunk!!

[Laird]

LIES!!! ALL LIES!!!!

SPAM!!! ALL SPAM!!!!

Refute the claim or STFU

He is speaking from Bobby's position dude.

What he said.