What's the point???

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-11 12:35am

TheDarkling wrote:Yes hes a machine - you mindset is close to racist - you devalue data because he different from you.

You could have said hes black im white.

That's absolutely ludicrous. Believing that machines aren't as important as living creatures has absolutely nothing to do with racism. It isn't even similar to speciesism, since we're not even dealing with a living being.

If it's rude to machines to like living creatures more than them, I'm sorry. As a living creature, I think I'm afforded that bias.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-11 12:36am

lol @ the irony in Darkling's statement considering Data's pigment.

John Clark · Post by **John Clark** » 2002-07-11 12:38am

Clark: I said biological definition. The federation must be really fucked up if a machine that runs on electricity, which stores info on chips, was built by man, artificially, is defined to be biologically alive.
_________________

Let's think about that. Do you then condone the slavery and exploitation of test-tube babies? How about babies born prematurely, who then require life support for a period of time?

Let's see, your definition of a "machine" is above... so how about a human being that runs on electricity (provided by the metabolism of nutrients) which stores info in bundles of grey matter, was created by a man and a woman, ARTIFICIALLY... there we have it! A small section of the population, ripe for the picking! Damn, why couldn't I have owned a plantation?!

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 12:38am

SCVN 2812: I did think that as I wrote it.

Robert Treder:
You are saying you deserve more rights than Data - why?
Simply because of the way he came to be and his physical construction.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-11 12:40am

TheDarkling wrote:Robert Treder:
You are saying you deserve more rights than Data - why?
Simply because of the way he came to be and his physical construction.

That's about the size of it.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 12:42am

So you devalue him because of his physical construction (Skin colour???) and the way he came to be (The race he was born into????).

See where Im going?

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-11 12:49am

TheDarkling wrote:So you devalue him because of his physical construction (Skin colour???) and the way he came to be (The race he was born into????).

See where Im going?

Yeah, I see precisely where you're going: the wrong way.

The difference between his construction and a human's construction is nowhere near the same as the difference between the "physical construction" of two humans of different races.
Same with the "way he came to be."

You're really reaching here by going after his physical differences. If you want to get me into a moral quandary, talk about his ability to reason, since that's what makes him special.
I'm not saying he should be destroyed or treated in a manner that would have adverse effects on his performance, or that he should be segregated from 'living' society. I'm just saying that he is not a living being, and should therefore not be considered as one. It's rather simple.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 12:58am

No you said that he deserves less rights because of his construction - why should his physicality determine his rights?

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-11 01:00am

Because said physicality determines whether or not he's alive. He's not alive. He therefore should not have the same rights as one who is alive.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 01:03am

Hes not biologically alive but he is sentient which means he deserves rights that all sentient beings deserve.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-11 01:05am

OK, I'd grant him the rights of a sentient, but not those of a living being.

I would not grant him citizenship, and therefore would not allow him to serve in the military. At least, not in the same capacity as a living being. He is useful as a tool.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 01:07am

Why should a biological life have more rights that any form of sentient life - slugs are alive, do they qualify for military service?

Edited due to error

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-11 01:11am

No, because you have to be sentient and alive for that. Otherwise you're just a tool.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-11 01:14am

Rest assured, I'm not saying you're wrong for believing that Data (or any other droid) is as worthy as a living being. It's just that I choose to not think so. As I've stated previously, I am alive, so I think I'm afforded that bias.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 01:18am

I just wonder why you believe meat machines are superior to electronic machines?

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-11 01:20am

As I said, I am alive, so I am afforded a bias towards the living.

In biological terms, I had damn well better like my species better than other ones (or machines, in this case), for obvious reasons.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 01:23am

I don't mind you prefering Humans - a bit prejudiced but nothing huge.

Im concerned that you think Biological life is superior to artificial and that you think being biological entitles people to better treatment from society and the government.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-11 01:25am

Go ahead and be troubled then.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 01:30am

Could you explain the reasoning behind your opinion?, just out of interest.

LMSx · Post by **LMSx** » 2002-07-11 01:51am

*sighs*

It looks like no one read the rest of my post.

My POINT was that R2-D2 and C3PO were constructed for a very specific purpose...Starship Maintenance and Diplomatic Translation. In the interest of efficiency, which I believe the Empire is *mildly* concerned with, it is impractical to allow all droids to achieve that level of sentience.

Data is moot to this whole argument. He was designed not for a single human oriented position but rather to expand knowledge. That is why the Emotion Chip was designed, and why he has a cat. It would not be right for Starfleet to limit him from learning about human life, since that is his purpose-just like it wouldn't be right for the Empire to prohibit a C3PO or R2-D2 model from carrying out the purpose that they were designed for. Beyond that design, however, is open game for any philosophy, New Republic or Empire.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 01:56am

Data is sentient and entitled to the rights there of - which he is granted.

Is C3PO sentient - hmmm I would say yes however he is a slave just like many non humans in the empire.
Put there is an army of droids working towards freedom - its a shame they dont win

.

We were discussing wether the empire is evil - I cant see how anyone could claim otherwise.

FireNexus · Post by **FireNexus** » 2002-07-11 02:22am

"An army of droids working towards freedom." Bullshit.

That army of droids of which you speak was following a megalomanical droid who wished the destruction of all organics. It's a REAL shame they didn't win. You dipshit...

IDMR · Post by **IDMR** » 2002-07-11 07:31am

TheDarkling wrote:Data is sentient and entitled to the rights there of - which he is granted.

<Snip>

Just like he was during the episode "Offspring", right?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 10:46am

FireNexus: Its no surprise considering how organics treat them.

IDMR: They wouldnt have kept the kid - he would have appealed and gotten her back - he could have pulled the resigning stuff again (The admiral ordered him to hand her over).

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-11 10:52am

I wonder where the ultimate suffering is on earth. There must be someone on ST Earth that lives the worst existence and everyone known about it. In order to be happy, you must know what sad is.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

What's the point???

Ludicrous...