Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Esquire » 2016-08-03 04:55pm

I don't know, that's still 56 minutes of Family Guy I'd have to watch. :D
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Lone Browncoat » 2016-08-03 05:01pm

:wink:
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby NecronLord » 2016-08-03 05:56pm

This thread clearly attracts shitposting. Keep on topic, keep content grounded and relevant or it gets locked.
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Adam Reynolds » 2016-08-05 08:46pm

Lone Browncoat wrote:"This armour's useless!!Why do we even wear it?"

Was in stitches, the first time I heard it. Still funny when I re-played it this morning.
Ya gotta see it. They manage to tell the same story in 56 minutes that took Lucas two hours plus.
I'd rather go into battle with the gear from "HALO".

The reason they tell the story in a shorter time is because you have already seen it. Robot Chicken is also much better.

Anyway, HALO armor is not any better than that from Star Wars. It is mostly used against generally inferior weapons. And given how quickly it is taken out by Covenant plasma weapons, it likely isn't any better than stormtrooper armor against energy weapons. Though Mandalorian armor is generally tougher than stormtrooper armor. Sabine takes a pair of hits to her chest and head with no significant effect in Rebels. But given the smaller area she covers with her armor relative to stormtroopers, it is also likely much heavier to wear.

Also, in the real film of Return of the Jedi, arrows don't actually penetrate stormtrooper armor. They penetrate the body glove of lighter scout trooper armor that has a greater exposed area and they kill unarmored officers, the survivors of which all ran back inside the bunker. Also notice that there were very few dead stormtroopers left in the clearing after it empties, and they were all clustered around where the Rebels were standing, indicating that they likely fell to blaster fire or Chewbacca.

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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Lone Browncoat » 2016-08-05 11:11pm

*ahem* I wasn't being serious, having a laugh, in general, of the whole thread.

Don't like the animation of RC, any more than I like the crude animation of South Park.
Not a fan of either.

Typical, I prefer Rob Dalton as a moderator, he's more balanced than the rest.

:P
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Prometheus Unbound » 2016-12-20 06:35am

Borgholio wrote:
I think it's obvious that the 16 settings are Technical Manual silliness.


Actually in the TNG episode, The Vengeance Factor, we clearly see Riker going through all 16 settings. He skips quite a few but there are 16 little lights and he goes through all of them.

Regarding the OP, I'd say you'd have to go through at least the mid-range phaser settings to punch a hole in Stormtrooper armor. Comparing blasters to phasers, it seems that only phasers in the mid - high settings are able to cause their targets to explode the way they do when a blaster hits.


It's also said out loud as 16 settings in "Return to Grace" as Kira goes through the settings verbally with Zyial (Rifle)

We see O'Brien flip through all 16 manually in a close up in "Hard Time". (hand phaser)

Data also says "Setting 16 should be sufficient" when collapsing a cave entrance to stop the Crystaline Entity getting in. (hand phasers)

There is Stun, Heavy Stun (level 3/4 which is enough to make Odo uncomfortable). Heavy Stun is also used on Data (or said to) and they don't know if that will stop him.

There's various "kills" - some just kill you, some throw you backwards, some bore through you. There's the disintegration settings (12 and up I'd imagine) which do the vapourising we see from time to time.



I would point out in the films, laser blasts don't appear to be stopped by the armour of storm troopers. 1 shot kills same as people without armour. I know the armour is meant to mean something and do something but really it doesn't. It just seems cumbersome to me.

If I was dealing sarcastic, I'd say the armour would have almost no effect at all on a phaser as it seems to have no effect on blasters.
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby EnterpriseSovereign » 2016-12-20 05:49pm

According to the fact files, on a phaser with 16 settings 1-3 were stun, 4-6 would burn and 7 would kill. Disintegration starts from 8 and above, along with "geological displacement", technobabble for "vaporising rocks" I imagine. It also said that higher settings would cause vibrations in shielded matter, with the highest setting it read "shielded matter exhibits fractures".
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Khaat » 2016-12-23 01:20pm

Prometheus Unbound wrote:I would point out in the films, laser blasts don't appear to be stopped by the armour of storm troopers. 1 shot kills same as people without armour. I know the armour is meant to mean something and do something but really it doesn't. It just seems cumbersome to me.

If I was dealing sarcastic, I'd say the armour would have almost no effect at all on a phaser as it seems to have no effect on blasters.

It is also possible, for a space opera, that "down" (incapacitated) is enough for story purposes to be a "kill" by blaster-shot to someone in stormtrooper armor, whereas the actual function is to keep troopers from dying (so they can be Bacta-dunked) and sent back to work in the morning.

It could be the only "shot dead" troopers in all the films we've seen are Finn's buddy (dead by blood-loss, of all things!) and those hit by Chewie's bowcaster (from the kinetic effects to the mushy stuff inside their helmets upon landing.) [Dunno about Rogue One, haven't seen it, been dealing with family stuff.]
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby DarthPooky » 2016-12-24 01:07am

According to the fact files, on a phaser with 16 settings 1-3 were stun, 4-6 would burn and 7 would kill. Disintegration starts from 8 and above, along with "geological displacement", technobabble for "vaporising rocks" I imagine. It also said that higher settings would cause vibrations in shielded matter, with the highest setting it read "shielded matter exhibits fractures".


Those descriptions of Phaser settings I believe are from the TM which is not canon. Also iv never seen Phasers do anything like "geological displacement" which seems rather ludicrous since were generally referring to hand Phasers which is a Futuristic Handgun.

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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-12-24 04:12am

Khaat wrote:
Prometheus Unbound wrote:I would point out in the films, laser blasts don't appear to be stopped by the armour of storm troopers. 1 shot kills same as people without armour. I know the armour is meant to mean something and do something but really it doesn't. It just seems cumbersome to me.

If I was dealing sarcastic, I'd say the armour would have almost no effect at all on a phaser as it seems to have no effect on blasters.

It is also possible, for a space opera, that "down" (incapacitated) is enough for story purposes to be a "kill" by blaster-shot to someone in stormtrooper armor, whereas the actual function is to keep troopers from dying (so they can be Bacta-dunked) and sent back to work in the morning.

It could be the only "shot dead" troopers in all the films we've seen are Finn's buddy (dead by blood-loss, of all things!) and those hit by Chewie's bowcaster (from the kinetic effects to the mushy stuff inside their helmets upon landing.) [Dunno about Rogue One, haven't seen it, been dealing with family stuff.]

at least some Rogue One stormtroopers are seen moving once they're "out of the fight", also there seems to be wounded clonetrooper that's "out of the fight" in ROTS, so we can't really assume that knocked down on their arse and not getting up=dead.

I think the problem here is that a lot of civilians assume that military grade armor makes it so that you can walk thru gun fire without noticing it rather then simply turning a dead man into a seriously wounded but alive man or turning seriously wounded man into not so seriously wounded man.
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Captain Seafort » 2016-12-24 04:28am

DarthPooky wrote:Those descriptions of Phaser settings I believe are from the TM which is not canon. Also iv never seen Phasers do anything like "geological displacement" which seems rather ludicrous since were generally referring to hand Phasers which is a Futuristic Handgun.


Of course we've seen geological displacement - every time they're used to punch holes in walls (eg Chain of Command). "Explosively uncoupling" 4000 tons of rock is another matter.
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Simon_Jester » 2016-12-24 05:37am

Prometheus Unbound wrote:I would point out in the films, laser blasts don't appear to be stopped by the armour of storm troopers. 1 shot kills same as people without armour. I know the armour is meant to mean something and do something but really it doesn't. It just seems cumbersome to me.
If blasters are as high-powered as some sources believe (megajoule-range energy releases, with high-end blaster bolts being comparable to exploding grenades), then the armor may be there to protect troopers from secondary effects. With so many energy weapons, including fully automatic ones, being sprayed around, there'd be sidescatter, blindingly intense light reflected off random surfaces, fragments of the walls blasted off like fragmentation shrapnel, and of course clouds of potentially toxic vapor released by the material disintegrated by the bolts. Wearing 'hard shell' body armor with an integrated breathing filter of some kind might just be the minimum amount of protection required to be sure of surviving a firefight if you DON'T get hit.

NOTE:

1) This is aside from the possibility that it's designed to be ablative or to reduce injury from blaster hits so that the trooper survives the firefight and can be bacta'ed back into service. That's a good idea too.

2) Yes, I know, unarmored characters routinely survive extended firefights with blasters in Star Wars. But then, all kinds of Hollywood characters survive close proximity to explosions and toxic substances that would kill or cripple them in real life. It's a movie; you can only expect so much from their realism.
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Prometheus Unbound » 2016-12-28 11:35am

DarthPooky wrote:
According to the fact files, on a phaser with 16 settings 1-3 were stun, 4-6 would burn and 7 would kill. Disintegration starts from 8 and above, along with "geological displacement", technobabble for "vaporising rocks" I imagine. It also said that higher settings would cause vibrations in shielded matter, with the highest setting it read "shielded matter exhibits fractures".


Those descriptions of Phaser settings I believe are from the TM which is not canon. Also iv never seen Phasers do anything like "geological displacement" which seems rather ludicrous since were generally referring to hand Phasers which is a Futuristic Handgun.


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It means exploding / vapourising rocks, not moving continents ><
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-12-28 12:04pm

Prometheus Unbound wrote:
DarthPooky wrote:
According to the fact files, on a phaser with 16 settings 1-3 were stun, 4-6 would burn and 7 would kill. Disintegration starts from 8 and above, along with "geological displacement", technobabble for "vaporising rocks" I imagine. It also said that higher settings would cause vibrations in shielded matter, with the highest setting it read "shielded matter exhibits fractures".


Those descriptions of Phaser settings I believe are from the TM which is not canon. Also iv never seen Phasers do anything like "geological displacement" which seems rather ludicrous since were generally referring to hand Phasers which is a Futuristic Handgun.


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Dumb episode with Paris and Neelix looking after a baby alien

to name three off the top of my head.


It means exploding / vapourising rocks, not moving continents ><
when the term Geological displacement is use in vs debates by pro-trek debates it's generally implied to mean devestation equal to large naval gun, not blowing up/vaporizing rocks about the size of a human torso that those examples all are more or less IIRC (Chain of Command is at least and it was loose rocks blocking a lava tube rather then 1 big one though that's not really relevant).
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Prometheus Unbound » 2016-12-28 12:52pm

well "geological displacement" isn't even a canon term in Trek.

I just lump it under "vapourise". *


* (and yes we all know it doesn't literally vapourise them else hydrogen bomb levels of boom).


I always figured... I know Phaser stands for Phased Apmplification of something so it sounds like Future LASER but that's never actually been canon either.

I figured they *phase* you into subspace bit by bit (killing you).
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby EnterpriseSovereign » 2016-12-28 08:45pm

The TNG tech manual describes it as follows:

"Phaser" is an acronym for "phased energy rectification" – named for the process of turning stored energy into an energy beam without an intermediate transformation. Energetic plasma is pumped to a prefire chamber made out of a superconducting lithium-copper. There, it undergoes a rapid nadion effect in which strong nuclear forces are liberated. A protonic charge forms and is released in pulses to the emitter made out of the same superconductive crystal. A beam of electromagnetic energy is released from it, at the speed of light. On starships, energy for phasers originates from the EPS, while on hand units, the charge of energetic plasma is stored into sarium-krellide. This material is used because it can't accidentally release the charge of plasma.
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Kojiro » 2016-12-28 09:25pm

I think the greatest example of Stormtrooper armour failing is Rogue One where the helmet will apparently not protect you from a blow from a stick. :lol:
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby DarthPooky » 2016-12-30 04:24pm

when the term Geological displacement is use in vs debates by pro-trek debates it's generally implied to mean devestation equal to large naval gun,


That's actually what I was thinking when I Sayed geological displacement was absurd but ya I agree it could just mean NDFing some rocks. I also was going to mention the "Explosively uncoupling 4000 tons of rock'' thing also as ridiculous but forgot. Why do you think the writers get these ideas that hand Phasers are so powerful?

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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-12-30 04:39pm

Kojiro wrote:I think the greatest example of Stormtrooper armour failing is Rogue One where the helmet will apparently not protect you from a blow from a stick. :lol:

actually a meter long stick depending on the wood can hit quite hard and it's not like we were shown that stormtroopers flatlined after those hits. I mean we discussed essentially this same bloody thing already on this thread. armor does not mean "immune to damage". :evil:
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Esquire » 2017-01-01 02:53pm

It especially doesn't mean 'immune to momentum transfer.'
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Kojiro » 2017-01-01 03:46pm

Lord Revan wrote:actually a meter long stick depending on the wood can hit quite hard and it's not like we were shown that stormtroopers flatlined after those hits. I mean we discussed essentially this same bloody thing already on this thread. armor does not mean "immune to damage". :evil:

Settle down there, as per the emoticon I was mostly joking. I'm curious though how much energy you think Chirrut's stick is imparting into the heads of the stormtroopers and what, if anything, the helmets are doing.
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Re: Your opinions: Minimum phaser setting to affect a stormtrooper?

Postby Lord Revan » 2017-01-01 04:44pm

Kojiro wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:actually a meter long stick depending on the wood can hit quite hard and it's not like we were shown that stormtroopers flatlined after those hits. I mean we discussed essentially this same bloody thing already on this thread. armor does not mean "immune to damage". :evil:

Settle down there, as per the emoticon I was mostly joking. I'm curious though how much energy you think Chirrut's stick is imparting into the heads of the stormtroopers and what, if anything, the helmets are doing.

If I'd have to guess I'd say about the same amount as wooden baseball bat. As for the helmets (or the ST armor in general) I see it as being like modern soldier's armor was/is until very recently at most aka good enough shrapnel and low power shots from blasters at least well enough for the trooper to survive though the armor could be damaged in the process. Key word here being "SURVIVE" not "walk thru it like it was just the rain".

I suspect while those troopers would probably have to treated for concussion they would be most likely fine thanks to better medtech in SW Spoiler
or at least would be if they weren't on Jedha when the DS superlaser was used on the planet
.
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