Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

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Adam Reynolds
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Re: Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

Postby Adam Reynolds » 2016-03-31 05:28pm

The best argument regarding the negative elements of mysticism in Star Trek is DS9, in which the atheistic Federation is proven objectively wrong. The "gods" even destroy an entire Dominion fleet and Sisko is uplifted as a servant of the gods. Science and technology does almost nothing to influence this story arc. I believe similar issues were shown in Voyager to a degree, though I haven't watched that show enough to know.

However, most people associate Star Trek with Kirk or Picard, as opposed to Sisko or Janeway. So I'm not sure that is a perfect argument. Certainly someone like Bill Nye would associate it with Kirk, as he probably remembered it mostly from his childhood.

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Re: Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

Postby Batman » 2016-03-31 05:38pm

Have you slept through the Dominion War arc? By the time the Sisko got Jesusised the war was over and the Founders killing the Dominion reinforcements was the only time they interfered with the war. Science and technology did such minor details as finding a counter to the shield-circumventing Dominion weapons, create the self-replicating minefield, hack the weapons platforms in the assault on Cardassia, detect and identify Founder infiltrators or pretty much everything else that happened in that war. 'Almost nothing' my ass.
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Re: Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

Postby Simon_Jester » 2016-03-31 05:48pm

Is it official Federation policy to deny the existence of "gods?"

Is it official Federation policy to deny the existence of the Founders as such, regardless of whether they are to be revered as gods?

Is it official Federation policy to disrespect, ignore, or marginalize the Bajoran religion(s) that revere the Founders as gods?

I'm pretty sure the answer to all three of those questions is "no." And if the answer to all those three questions is "no," then how is it "proving the Federation wrong" when it turns out that part of their victory in the Dominion War comes from convincing the Founders to take sides and help them against an enemy?

Would it be "proving the atheistic Federation wrong" if the Federation asked Q nicely to help them against the Borg, and Q cooperated? I don't see the difference there.
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Certainly the Federation doesn't explicitly encourage religion. And they have a long history of encountering false 'gods' and either destroying or unmasking them; they have plenty of reasons not to take 'this entity has great powers we don't understand' as evidence for 'this entity is a god.'

However, the Federation is not as such an "atheistic" state; it is simply a state which views religion as a part of specific cultures (which it tolerates as a matter of policy), but not as a uniquely sacred part of those cultures.
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Re: Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-04-01 01:35am

Simon(and others) I think you mixed the Prophets (aka the wormhole aliens) who are the defacto gods of Bajor with the Founders (aka Odo's species) who are the Dominion gods (and leaders of the Dominion)
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Re: Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

Postby Simon_Jester » 2016-04-01 03:50am

...Crap.

I was thinking "Prophets" (the entities controlling the Bajoran wormhole) but somehow wrote "Founders" every single time.

:banghead:

Thanks for catching that. Obviously, the post should read:

Simon_Jester wrote:Is it official Federation policy to deny the existence of "gods?"

Is it official Federation policy to deny the existence of the Prophets as such, regardless of whether they are to be revered as gods?

Is it official Federation policy to disrespect, ignore, or marginalize the Bajoran religion(s) that revere the Prophets as gods?

I'm pretty sure the answer to all three of those questions is "no." And if the answer to all those three questions is "no," then how is it "proving the Federation wrong" when it turns out that part of their victory in the Dominion War comes from convincing the Founders to take sides and help them against an enemy?

Would it be "proving the atheistic Federation wrong" if the Federation asked Q nicely to help them against the Borg, and Q cooperated? I don't see the difference there.
______________

Certainly the Federation doesn't explicitly encourage religion. And they have a long history of encountering false 'gods' and either destroying or unmasking them; they have plenty of reasons not to take 'this entity has great powers we don't understand' as evidence for 'this entity is a god.'

However, the Federation is not as such an "atheistic" state; it is simply a state which views religion as a part of specific cultures (which it tolerates as a matter of policy), but not as a uniquely sacred part of those cultures.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov

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Re: Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-04-01 03:57am

In your defense Simon you were not the only one who seems to have those 2 mixed in this thread.
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Re: Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

Postby Batman » 2016-04-01 08:01am

Yup. Guilty here too.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

Postby DarthPooky » 2016-04-03 01:23am

one thing I don't think I made very clear in my first post is that I felt that (and this is probably just me) that Bill is saying that because the tone of trek is more scientific that it is therefore better then star wars. But of cores nether one is better then the other there just different with different tones. of cores he could just be stating the reasons he likes star trek more but there's that little part of me that's telling me the former but its probably just me.

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Re: Bill Nye dosnt like star wars?

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-04-03 04:57am

It's most likely "I like Star Trek more because..." then an authority statement of quality as most people couldn't care less about the VS. debates or at most consider them a curiosity not to be taken too seriously.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n


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