Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

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Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby NecronLord » 2016-02-05 08:39pm

Please outline your preferred tactics/approach to the following scenario as either the First Order Skipper or Federation Captain. Both sides have a working knowledge of the other's abilities.

1.1 Starfleet Briefing

You are the captain of the USS Progress. Lately you have received a priority transmission from the USS Foundation indicating that the hostile force, the First Order, has kidnapped a survey team during an away mission, consisting of sixteen persons including two native guides, eight scientists and six security personnel. These persons are currently aboard a Gozanti-class transport, a small and old first order transport. You have, by fortune, been able to intercept this transport near a neutral land-based station, it is likely that the vessel will land, complete its refuelling, and be on its way within twenty one minutes thirteen seconds (as your Vulcan tactical officer punctiliously informs you).

You are currently undetected five hundred kilometres astern of the target vessel, having stepped down from slipstream drive to warp drive and then standard orbit while maintaining cloak. You have been able to verify that the comm-badges onboard are not currently being worn, and are clustered too tightly to indicate they are being worn.

1.2 Starfleet Resources

USS Progress, Galaxy-class Refit. Equipped as per this thread in points 2.3.x. including cloaking device.

2.1 First Order Briefing

You are the Lieutenant JG Commanding First Order Gozanti-class transport colourfully named Freighter-129, a punishment you suspect, given that the ship is so old that its spaceframe is pre-Imperial. You are hauling a group of sixteen prisoners from the planet Jakku, who claim to be a survey team from a polity called the United Federation of Planets, suspected of being hostile to the First Order. You are enroute to Penal Facility Omega based on the ice planet Zerga, where they are to be interrogated.

You are presently waiting in the queue to land at an independent and unarmed fuelling station to continue your journey back into First Order space; you do not have the means to make a hyperspace jump at present. Well aware that this is where an ambush is most likely to happen. You have the energy to run all the ship’s combat systems and sublight systems, but the hyperdrive requires more reaction mass than you currently have on board to complete your mission.

You have previously confiscated a variety of rifles, strangely configured pistols, scanner and communications devices from the prisoners, who are located in your aft cargo bay. You have also, for the duration of the fuelling stop, manned the four TIE/fo fighters your vessel carries in outboard clamps, to patrol the area around the ship while it docks, and ensured that all your personnel are carrying sidearms, you are running with your shields raised, until you land and refuel.

2.2 First Order Resources

You have on board, four manned TIE fighters and eight stormtroopers, as well as 8 other crew (4 TIE technicians, deck chief, pilot, co-pilot, yourself) on board.

No reinforcements are available until the Progress decloaks, and whereupon you can expect a Star Destroyer to arrive exactly thirty minutes after any request you send.

Image


The TIE/fo fighters you are carrying are less capable than the TIE/sf special-forces model, they are single-seat models that lack a torpedo armament, hyperdrive, copilot or underslung turret gun, but are equipped with various modernization improvements and fully rated Starfighter-grade deflector shields.

3. Refuelling Station

Image


Fuel Station Hastis is a neutral facility belonging to the mighty Duraa the Hutt. Neither side can afford to damage it if possible, this is optional for the First Order however, while Federation Rules of Engagement preclude causing large scale loss of civilian life. Refueling requires that a ship enter the atmosphere of the planet the Fuel Station is located on, drop shields and link to a pumping tower to take on the required load, which is likely to take more than sixteen minutes for Freighter-129.

Due to Duraa the Hutt wishing to cut costs, the station is not equipped with a theatre shield nor any means to shoot at inbound targets, though it does have a set of powerful mag-clamps on the docking tower that can restrain any vessel that attempts to leave without paying.

Resources:
Galaxy Class Tech Specs; a good breakdown of tech manual information, with some original aspects, obviously doesn't include the upgrades mentioned above.
Phaser Rifle in use by security forces aboard the USS Progress.
Rick Sternbach’s Galaxy Class Starship Deckplans - may be considered valid for this thread, cetacean tanks and all; note, not all decks are accessible on the page.

First Order Stormtroopers standard equipment.
Gozanti-class Freighter-Cruiser
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2016-02-05 09:05pm

As the First Order skipper, stay in orbit, keep the shields raised and the hostages covered at all times. Send immediate call for reinforcements. Once the GCS decloaks, open communications but make no hostile moves. Say that as you clearly cannot win a straight-up fight you are willing to negotiate for the hostages to be released.

String them along long enough for the Star Destroyer to arrive and destroy the GCS. Threaten to kill one or more hostages if the ship is fired upon and follow through if necessary. If possible, move the hostages to surround some vital equipment the GCS might target (shield generators, engines, weapon mounts if applicable) to deter an attack.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby NecronLord » 2016-02-05 09:37pm

The thing is that no reinforcement call will be answered until you have contact with the enemy. They'll just laugh at you. ;)
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2016-02-05 09:56pm

Then I send the signal as soon as the GCS decloaks, then begin my "negotiating," but I use the time I have before that happens to move the hostages as close as possible to vital systems, as mentioned earlier.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby WATCH-MAN » 2016-02-06 02:01am

NecronLord wrote:
[...]

[...] You are currently undetected five hundred kilometres astern of the target vessel, having stepped down from slipstream drive to warp drive and then standard orbit while maintaining cloak. You have been able to verify that the comm-badges onboard are not currently being worn, and are clustered too tightly to indicate they are being worn.

[...]

[...] shields raised, until you land and refuel.

[...]

[...] Refueling requires that a ship enter the atmosphere of the planet the Fuel Station is located on, drop shields [...].

[...] the station is not equipped with a theatre shield [...]

[...]


With other words: There is nothing that prevents the crew of the USS Progress to keep cloaked and beam all that is large enough to be a humanoid adult aboard. As evidenced in the movie "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home", beaming while being cloaked is possible.

They do not even have to receive any life signs to do this - as in the TNG episode "The Hunted"

              DATA:
          Yet there are still no life form readings.

              PICARD:
          Transporter room four, prepare to beam aboard from inside that shuttle anything large enough to be a humanoid adult.

And as seen in the DS9 episode "Return to Grace", where Kira manages to use the Klingons' transporters to beam the entire crew of the Groumall to the Bird-of-Prey and vice versa OR in the VOY episode "Prophecy", where the whole crew of a D7-class cruiser - more than the crew of the Voyager - are beamed aboard of the Voayager in one instance, it is possible to transport the whole crew of a ship and their hostages in one instance.

They could sort out who is who when they have them in their transporter buffer.

I assume that there is no evidence that the hull of that transporter consists of anything that prevents a transport. The Klingon ships to and from which where beamed - a D7-class cruiser and a Bird-of-Prey - do have armour too. The latter even has armour that couldn't be breached by the weapons of the Groumall, a system-5 planetary disruptor was necessary to achieve that and even with that weapon, the Bird of Prey remained relative intact. But this armour did not prevent transportation. Insofar we can not simply assume that armour prevents transportation - unless there is evidence that this armour consists of materials which are known to be able to prevent transportation - as e.g. Kelbonite.

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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-02-06 03:23am

assuming there's no jammers or such on the station (it's run by a hutt so it's not unreasonble to suspect something like that would exist). Watch-man's tactic doesn't seem too bad granted you have wait until the shields are dropped, it really depends on what the station is like and if the SW is aware of possiblity of transporters (if they are I'd suspect the prisoners at least be near a low level jammer).
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby FaxModem1 » 2016-02-06 04:16am

Can't the Progress just contact Duraa the Hutt and bribe him to maglock the ship?
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-02-06 04:31am

FaxModem1 wrote:Can't the Progress just contact Duraa the Hutt and bribe him to maglock the ship?

possible assuming the Progress can convince the Hutt that doing so is worth potentially pissing of the First Order. Hutts are criminals after all not cliche villains who do "bad things" for the sake of doing them, so unless the Progress can convince that helping them is worth while the Hutts won't do it.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby FaxModem1 » 2016-02-06 04:42am

Lord Revan wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:Can't the Progress just contact Duraa the Hutt and bribe him to maglock the ship?

possible assuming the Progress can convince the Hutt that doing so is worth potentially pissing of the First Order. Hutts are criminals after all not cliche villains who do "bad things" for the sake of doing them, so unless the Progress can convince that helping them is worth while the Hutts won't do it.


Hence the term bribe. I'm sure this peon here can't suddenly call in Admiral Hux because the Hutts want to do an inspection or something.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby WATCH-MAN » 2016-02-06 05:11am

Lord Revan wrote:assuming there's no jammers or such on the station (it's run by a hutt so it's not unreasonble to suspect something like that would exist). Watch-man's tactic doesn't seem too bad granted you have wait until the shields are dropped, it really depends on what the station is like and if the SW is aware of possiblity of transporters (if they are I'd suspect the prisoners at least be near a low level jammer).

From what I know, jamming of sensors and communication is done in Star Wars, but usually jamming is not active all the time but only when the necessity as such is perceived - e.g. in the presence of an enemy.

Not knowing about the presence of the cloaked USS Progress, maybe not even knowing about the ability of Starfleet to cloak its ships, why would the Star Wars crew activate any jamming - even if they have factual knowledge about the existence of the transporter technology?

And even if they have a "jam session", what does this do? Does it affect Starfleet sensors at all? Does it only jam the sensors, preventing the crew of the USS Progress to get a transporter lock? Or does it prevent the transport itself?

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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby RogueIce » 2016-02-06 06:25am

Given that both sides have "a working knowledge of the other's abilities" as per the OP then yes, the First Order should suspect cloaked ships. And transporters. And they'd be stupid not to have at least jamming around the local area of the jail cells, to prevent just this sort of thing.

Or, since shields can block transporters, they would use these handy shielded cells from The Clone Wars to prevent devious Federation transporter beam outs.

As for jamming on the interior of the ship and/or using some localized shields (slightly larger droideka generators or the like) it depends on how paranoid the FO crew is being. Since I'm the one in command, I choose to be paranoid as fuck and have a localized jam field within the interior of the ship and keep us in some interior shielded spaces, just to be sure. And all that is assuming we don't have transport inhibitors built because after all A) the aforementioned "working knowledge" of transporters and B) this isn't our first encounter with the Federation now is it?
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby WATCH-MAN » 2016-02-06 08:43am

RogueIce wrote:Given that both sides have "a working knowledge of the other's abilities" as per the OP then yes, the First Order should suspect cloaked ships. And transporters.

I assume that "working knowledge" means that the crew of Freighter-129 does know as much as WE do know about the working and abilities of the transporter- and cloaking technology - but nothing more.

RogueIce wrote:And they'd be stupid not to have at least jamming around the local area of the jail cells, to prevent just this sort of thing.

The powers of the MW AQ do have more than only a working knowledge of the cloaking technology and transporter technology of the other powers of the MW AQ. And yet - as far as we know - they have not activated inhibitors and jammers all the time.

RogueIce wrote:Or, since shields can block transporters, they would use these handy shielded cells from The Clone Wars to prevent devious Federation transporter beam outs.

Not every kind of shield blocks every kind of transporter.

In the TOS episode "A Taste of Armageddon", they were able to beam down although shields were activated. The Aldeans were able to pass through their own shielding using transporters and the crew of the USS Enterprise D did not regard it as impossible to find a way to beam through that shield too and found a way after all (TNG episode "When The Bough Breaks"). O'Brien was able to beam from the USS Enterprise D to the USS Phoenix (TNG episode "The Wounded"). The Borg and the Dominion used transporter technology that was able to penetrate standard Federation shielding (TNG episode "Q Who"; DS9 episode "The Jem'Hadar"). And the Voth were able to beam the whole Voyager - despite activated shields - in their City ship (VOY episode "Distant Origin").

That the powers of the MW AQ are able to adapt their shields to prevent unwanted transportations is to be expected. After all - they are familiar with transporter technology and do not have merely working knowledge.

But if even they are not able to prevent every attempt of unwanted transportation with their shields - how is the crew of Freighter-129 supposed to know how to adapt their shields to prevent unwanted transportation?

And a shield that covers only the door may not be enough to prevent an unwanted transportation.

RogueIce wrote:As for jamming on the interior of the ship and/or using some localized shields (slightly larger droideka generators or the like) it depends on how paranoid the FO crew is being. Since I'm the one in command, I choose to be paranoid as fuck and have a localized jam field within the interior of the ship and keep us in some interior shielded spaces, just to be sure.

Your paranoia does not give you the ability to solve the problems I just described.

RogueIce wrote:And all that is assuming we don't have transport inhibitors built because after all A) the aforementioned "working knowledge" of transporters and B) this isn't our first encounter with the Federation now is it?

Your "working knowledge" does not give you the ability to solve the problems I just described.

And you are only a Lieutenant JG - not an engineer or a scientist.

What do you know about subspace physics? Because the transporter is a subspace device. The matter stream is transmitted to its destination across a subspace domain - as were the subspace signals between Locutus and the Borg ship (TNG episode "The Best of Both Worlds"). Their carrier wave operates on a subspace frequency (TNG episode "Data's Day").

Even if subspace is not totally unkown in the SW galaxy - what do you - a Lieutenant JG - know about it?

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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby RogueIce » 2016-02-06 09:04am

Oh for God's sake, you don't know the exact mechanics of ST transporters and SW jamming/shields and how the technologies interact any more than I do. Is it possible they can work to inhibit Trek transporters? Maybe, maybe not. Absent a crossover that I don't see happening any time soon, we will never know with 100% certainty.

So what's your point?

Fine, maybe SW can't build transport inhibitors directly. Whatever. But they can try to have a localized jamming field and local shields (if they can put a shield in for a door, they can put a shield around the walls, ceiling and floor as well if they want to) in an effort to prevent a 'surprise transport' from any potentially cloaked ships that might try to interfere with their prisoner transport.

Will it work? Fuck if I know. And you don't either. So we can either have an entirely pointless back-and-forth about a subject we will never get a true answer on, or we can just agree on either an assumption that the FO can prevent a suprirse beam out, or you can declare "transporters win lol" if you it makes you feel better. Personally, I think the latter makes for a very boring tactics discussion but you do what you want.

As for the rest of us, I think it's more productive to go with jamming/local shields block transporters, what do the two leaders do now?
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby NecronLord » 2016-02-06 09:31am

The shields will block transporters; that did not seem like it'd be necessary to specify that. Jamming against beaming on the whole ship is not fiesable.

If it was, I imagine that every credible Star Trek ship would do so, as it is, only 8472 and Tin Man have such jamming fields on a large enough scale to cover their vessels.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby WATCH-MAN » 2016-02-06 01:53pm

NecronLord wrote:The shields will block transporters; that did not seem like it'd be necessary to specify that. Jamming against beaming on the whole ship is not fiesable.

If it was, I imagine that every credible Star Trek ship would do so, as it is, only 8472 and Tin Man have such jamming fields on a large enough scale to cover their vessels.

If it is not possible to beam the crew and their hostages out due to jamming, is it possible to beam something into the ship?

Maybe a few canisters with anesthizine - similar to what was done in the ENT episode "Divergence" or in the Moscow theater hostage crisis (the latter of course without the beaming and without an anesthetic as advanced as anesthizine)? It takes 1.4 seconds to render someone unconscious using anesthizine gas (DS9 episode "The Assignment"). Or a few stun grenades or gas grenades directly under the ceiling of the rooms?

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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2016-02-06 02:51pm

He just said "the shields will block transporters" so no, I don't think you can beam things aboard.

As for paranoia etc, well, the OP states I am aware of Federation capabilities and am also aware that this situation is perfect for an ambush. Thus I will not lower my shields, I will stay in standard orbit.

I may even contact the Hutt and see if I can offer him a First Order bribe to bring a FO warship here ASAP. NecronLord said they won't believe any distress calls I make until the GCS decloaks, but a Hutt asking for something else? That's more feasible.

Alternately I wait as long as I can before I have to go down and refuel, but I have a jamming field in place, the prisoners in a temporary shield around key components as I originally outlined, and just in case you can beam in anesthezine, the most powerful bomb I have available next to the hostages with the detonator rigged to a medical scanner attached to me; it will detonate if I fall unconscious.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby WATCH-MAN » 2016-02-06 04:04pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:He just said "the shields will block transporters" so no, I don't think you can beam things aboard.


          NecronLord wrote:
          [...]

          [...] You are presently waiting in the queue to land at an independent and unarmed fuelling station to continue your journey back into First Order space; you do not have the means to make a hyperspace jump at present. [...] You have the energy to run all the ship’s combat systems and sublight systems, but the hyperdrive requires more reaction mass than you currently have on board to complete your mission.

          [...] shields raised, until you land and refuel.

          [...]

          [...] Refueling requires that a ship enter the atmosphere of the planet the Fuel Station is located on, drop shields [...].

          [...] the station is not equipped with a theatre shield [...]

          [...]
If you land and refuel, you have to drop your shields.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:As for paranoia etc, well, the OP states I am aware of Federation capabilities and am also aware that this situation is perfect for an ambush. Thus I will not lower my shields, I will stay in standard orbit.

And how do you complete your mission?

May I remind you:

          NecronLord wrote:
          [...]

          [...] the hyperdrive requires more reaction mass than you currently have on board to complete your mission. [...]

          [...]

Eternal_Freedom wrote:I may even contact the Hutt and see if I can offer him a First Order bribe to bring a FO warship here ASAP. NecronLord said they won't believe any distress calls I make until the GCS decloaks, but a Hutt asking for something else? That's more feasible.

You do not even know if there is a Starfleet ship at all.

And what do you have to bribe the Hutt? Do you - as a Lieutenant JG of the First Order - have something the Hutt could be interested in?

And why would the First Order help the Hutt and send a warship?

And which consequences have the Hutt to expect if they are calling for help - but there is no emergency?

          Neither the Hutt nor you do know that there is the cloaked USS Progress. Yo do only know that Starfleet is able to cloak its ships and that there may or may not be a cloaked ship in your vicinity. The Hutt have to consider the possibility that there is no cloaked ship or that even if there is a cloaked ship that it won't decloak in the presence of another First order warship.There could be nothing to do for another First Order warship. And somehow I doubt that the First Order takes it lightly if their mighty warships are called only for a coffee party.

With other words: Please offer a little bit more than only your handwaveium the next time.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Alternately I wait as long as I can before I have to go down and refuel, but I have a jamming field in place, the prisoners in a temporary shield around key components as I originally outlined, and just in case you can beam in anesthezine, the most powerful bomb I have available next to the hostages with the detonator rigged to a medical scanner attached to me; it will detonate if I fall unconscious.

Yes - that's exactly what you would do ...

Of course - if you already know what the other is planing to do, it is easy to find a way to prevent that - even by acting totally out of character.
I have never seen that someone in SW has done something similar to what you are proposing.

I am trying to only extrapolate what a Starfleet crew might do from what we have seen already.

But your character is omniscient. You seem to forget that your character may have a working knowledge about the transporter technology - but he is not really familiar with it and its possible tactical applications. It's not very plausible that he is able to find the perfect way to prevent the usage of the transporter - when even the MW AQ powers, who are more than only familiar with the transporter technology, have problems with that.

And what sense would this make? What would be the advantage in killing yourself and the hostages? Starfleet does not get back its personnel. That's sad - but does not really weakens Starfleet. The First Order - on the other side - can not question them any more and has lost you, your man, your ship and is possibly responsible for destroying the fuelling station. And in the end: You have not completed your mission.

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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2016-02-06 04:45pm

I, as the character, know that Federation ships might be in the area, have teleporters that don't work through shields or (hopefully) through strong enough jamming. I also know they have cloaking devices. I know I have Federation captives aboard that they will presumably attempt to rescue at some point, and that this situation will be an ideal opportunity for them to make such an attempt.

That is not being omniscient, that is recognising the situation for what it is. Would a FO officer react thsi way? Probably not. But that isn't what was asked. It's not "what would an FO officer do" it's "What would I do in this situation."

You are correct that it is unlikely the Hutt will cooperate, and that I have nothing on hand to bribe him with, that's why I said I would attempt it, I never said it would work but that it's worth trying. Perhaps I can convince him that he can be paid in full by the FO afterwards, like Obi-Wan did to Han in ANH. Perhaps it will fail entirely. I don't know until I try it. At any rate, it will buy me time to get my hostages set up as I described earlier and will delay any potential action by the GCS' crew. After all, they can't stay here forever either.

The OP states I don't have enough reaction mass to make a hyperspace jump. That says nothing about how long I can wait. Hell, I could possibly fake or cause some damage to my own hyperdrive to mean I have to call for another FO ship to come and collect the prisoners.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby NecronLord » 2016-02-06 05:03pm

WATCH-MAN wrote:
NecronLord wrote:The shields will block transporters; that did not seem like it'd be necessary to specify that. Jamming against beaming on the whole ship is not fiesable.

If it was, I imagine that every credible Star Trek ship would do so, as it is, only 8472 and Tin Man have such jamming fields on a large enough scale to cover their vessels.

If it is not possible to beam the crew and their hostages out due to jamming, is it possible to beam something into the ship?

Maybe a few canisters with anesthizine - similar to what was done in the ENT episode "Divergence" or in the Moscow theater hostage crisis (the latter of course without the beaming and without an anesthetic as advanced as anesthizine)? It takes 1.4 seconds to render someone unconscious using anesthizine gas (DS9 episode "The Assignment"). Or a few stun grenades or gas grenades directly under the ceiling of the rooms?


If the Freighter drops its shields, or you drop them, then you should be able to beam persons or equipment aboard yes, But stormtroopers have gas filters they can activate (going by the novel) and have anti-flash protection.

And yeah, neither side has the resources to bribe Duraa the Hutt.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2016-02-06 05:57pm

If I can't bribe him, then I revert to my original plan, lower shields while keeping up full jamming and having the crew where oxygen masks and as soon as the GCS decloaks, raise shields and begin my "string them along while pretending to negotiate" plan while sending an immediate distress call.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby RogueIce » 2016-02-06 09:23pm

NecronLord wrote:The shields will block transporters; that did not seem like it'd be necessary to specify that. Jamming against beaming on the whole ship is not fiesable.

If it was, I imagine that every credible Star Trek ship would do so, as it is, only 8472 and Tin Man have such jamming fields on a large enough scale to cover their vessels.

That doesn't make sense. If one can jam enemy sensors for a given area around/outside the ship, surely it's technically feasible to do so within the confines of the ship itself?

As for why ST ships don't do it, well they have their shields for that. And if they did do it, Federation ships would be hampering themselves given how they rely on their own transporters, internal sensors, and wireless communications (commbadges) for, well, everything. So running ship-wide jamming at all times would only serve to interfere with their own shipboard operations. Doing so in combat might make sense but we see them take damage even when shields are up before they fully collapse, so we can maybe chalk it up to battle damage or whatever.

But let's just go with "can't jam whole interior of ship" because reasons (maybe it'd make the Hutt squirrely, I don't know). At the very least we should be able to locally jam/shield important areas like the bridge, engineering and or course the holding cells themselves. The stormtroopers would have their filters, and the rest of my crew would wear air masks during the critical refueling operations, where general ship shields must be deactivated. And local jamming or whatever should prevent them beaming directly to the bridge, or getting stun grenades close enough to actually do anything.

If Starfleet tries anything, immediately broadcast A) a distress call and B) a wide area general transmission along these lines, "Attention Federation Starship, any further attempts at direct action against this ship will result in immediate execution of all prisoners. De-cloak at once and we will discuss terms." Then drag them along as Eternal Freedom says until my Star Destroyer backup arrives:

Eternal_Freedom wrote:begin my "string them along while pretending to negotiate" plan

Even if we acknowledge they can (somehow) disable me in their opening transporter gambit, Necron_Lord has indicated the troopers should be reasonably immune:

NecronLord wrote:But stormtroopers have gas filters they can activate (going by the novel) and have anti-flash protection.

So worst case, before lowering shields to commence refueling, I make sure a couple troopers are up on the bridge or near enough an external comm panel to send out a distress call and my pre-recorded "de-cloak and discuss terms" message. Hopefully they'll wake me up so I can then begin my fruitless negotiations and delay them for 30 minutes in order to wait them out.

Basically the only tactic the FO has is to use the prisoners as hostages to secure enough time for reinforcements to arrive, and the Federation Captain has to weigh that against the fact s/he cannot immediately beam the hostages (and/or their captors) out at once and thus, any rescue attempts will almost certainly result in losing prisoners, if not all of them (depending on how merciless the troopers are). Given there's 8 troopers and 16 hostages, the odds for a contested rescue are...not good.
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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-02-07 12:11am

As Federation captain:

Beam out the captives and run if possible.

Presuming countermeasures are used to prevent that, as discussed in this thread, I suppose I could hail the First Order and attempt a negotiation. But that's risky, they could, as RogueIce said, use negotiation to stall until a star destroyer arrives. Also, it would give them time and warning to prepare for an attack. I also thought about trying to negotiate with the local Hutt boss to sell them out, but figured the risk of them siding with the First Order was too great.

So I guess it comes down to storming the ship and hoping for the best. I don't have a great deal of faith in standard Starfleet security to pull that off without losing hostages.

Hmm, what about personal cloaks? Would it be possible to sneak a security detail onto the Imperial ship and get to the hostages before the fighting even starts? The technology does exist in Star Trek, but I don't know if a Starfleet ship would have it on hand.

As First Order commander, try to throw it in the Federation's favour and defect, as usual.

But for actually trying to win- keep shields up as much as possible, try to jam transporters, keep the hostages under guard at all time, call for a star destroyer as soon as trouble starts. Pretty simple really.

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Re: Tactics Scenario: Rescue attempt at Hastis Station [SW:TFA Spoilers]

Postby WATCH-MAN » 2016-02-07 02:29am

In this case, as it is not possible to free the hostages using the transporter and as it is not possible to incapacitate the crew of that freighter, the only alternative for the crew of the USS Progress is to use force - even if that means risking the life of the hostages and the destruction of the freighter and its crew. To prevent the crew of the freighter to call for help, the crew of the USS Progress could try to jam the communication during their attack.

What else are they supposed to do?

Even if they could only have a pyrrhic victory, it seems to be better than to let the FO abduct Federation citizens with impunity.

Of course: A Starfleet crew would do that only after they checked that there are no other alternatives; they would do that only if they have no other choice.

And I do not see that the premises of this scenario are letting them any other choice.

The only chance to effectuate anything they have is to board the freighter by force when it is refuelling and forced to drop its shield. Until then they have to patiently wait under their cloak.


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