"Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

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"Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby JamesStaley » 2016-01-07 02:31am

On the subject of Star Wars Vs Star Trek, why does a person have to chose one or the other? There are good things & bad things to be said for all of them. One thing that really annoys the heck out of me about the Star Trek universe is how CLEAN and hospital-like everything is. Of course the Federation is going to keep things clean, but you NEVER see a speck of dirt anywhere, you don't see a fleck of paint scrapped off, every uniform looks like it just got issued 5 minutes ago, etc etc etc.
It's a minor point to be sure, but it drives me crazy how everything is always so spotless when it just doesn't happen like that in the "real" world. :banghead: :banghead:

Which brings me to BB-8 in the new Star Wars movie. You know, for a beach ball that is rolling around in the dirt all the time, it sure manages to stay pretty clean! Okay, i'm sure there's some kind of "Anti-dirt" tech at work.....a force field or anti-static electronics....but it's still WAY TOO CLEAN!

JS

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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-01-07 11:21am

the Dirt in Jakku is probably quite dry so the sand could easily fall of, besides that it could be a limitation of making BB-8 a practical robot instead of CGI maybe the robot had to be that clean to work (and I'm not talking about the in universe droid but the prop they use to depict it)
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Borgholio » 2016-01-07 11:24am

Well BB-8 is stated to be a unique droid. Maybe Poe modified him in some way. We know that other droids such as 3PO and R2 get quite filthy at times, so there's no "universal clean-droid module" that's standard equipment.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-01-07 11:41am

One thing that did strike me about the new movie is that at one point (when Finn's stormtrooper company is de-planing after the village massacre) you do notice that Finn's armour is quite dusty. Bit of a contrast. Star Wars does have its 'clean' side-- just look at any Imperial ship interior.

Anyway, I don't find it inconceivable that there's some sort of anti-static field or something available for droids. Dust is bad for electronics, after all, and one would assume that in an universe with artificial gravity, inertial compensators, and tractor beams, they can make a miniature field to keep dust off things.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Broomstick » 2016-01-07 02:30pm

In Episode IV doesn't C3PO make some comment about dust getting into his workings when he and R2D2 wind up on Tatooine?

It might make a lot of sense for droids to have some sort of cleaning/anti-dirt/dust capability, particularly those likely to wind up in grimy/dusty conditions.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-01-07 02:38pm

Broomstick wrote:In Episode IV doesn't C3PO make some comment about dust getting into his workings when he and R2D2 wind up on Tatooine?

It might make a lot of sense for droids to have some sort of cleaning/anti-dirt/dust capability, particularly those likely to wind up in grimy/dusty conditions.


Well Threepio is from the prequel era and originally built on Tattooine. Either anti-dust tech wasn't very common on Tattooine (which I find somewhat unlikely, but perhaps it's moderately expensive), or maybe he's just whining.

BB-8 by contrast is a more modern generation of droid. Maybe they come with anti-dust by default or something. I do think I recall him being slightly dingy though...
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Borgholio » 2016-01-07 02:41pm

Broomstick wrote:In Episode IV doesn't C3PO make some comment about dust getting into his workings when he and R2D2 wind up on Tatooine?

It might make a lot of sense for droids to have some sort of cleaning/anti-dirt/dust capability, particularly those likely to wind up in grimy/dusty conditions.



"Thank the Maker! This oil bath is going to feel SO good! I've got such a bad case of dust contamination, I can barely move..."

...

*sigh* Yes, I know I'm a hopeless nerd for knowing all the dialogue by memory.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-01-07 02:45pm

Borgholio wrote:
Broomstick wrote:In Episode IV doesn't C3PO make some comment about dust getting into his workings when he and R2D2 wind up on Tatooine?

It might make a lot of sense for droids to have some sort of cleaning/anti-dirt/dust capability, particularly those likely to wind up in grimy/dusty conditions.



"Thank the Maker! This oil bath is going to feel SO good! I've got such a bad case of dust contamination, I can barely move..."

...

*sigh* Yes, I know I'm a hopeless nerd for knowing all the dialogue by memory.


Yes. Yes you are.

Now that we've established that ;) honestly it could be taken either of two ways... either he does have a dust problem (he was walking through the desert for a while before the Jawas picked him up), or he's whining. Both are equally likely IMO.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Borgholio » 2016-01-07 02:52pm

Indeed...3PO does like to complain a lot. I think most likely he DID have a bit of a dust problem but it was nothing serious, he just wanted to bitch about it. Given how much sand he and R2 both went through, if they were susceptible to dust they probably would have locked up completely before the jawas found them.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Batman » 2016-01-07 03:39pm

While I, too, wouldn't discount the possibility that 3PO is just whining, he's mechanically a lot more complex than BB-8. There's a lot more places for the dust to get into. He didn't actually look noticeably dirty any more than BB-8 did.

Then there's 3PO's origin. He was cobbled together by the son of a slave from spare parts on a planet at the ass end of nowhere. Chances are he wasn't state of the art back when he was built.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Khaat » 2016-01-07 04:20pm

3PO's "moving parts" are potentially more susceptible to binding by grit (?): he has bipedal locomotion on a dynamic skeleton frame (many parts moving in arcs, back and forth, shifting load), R2 rolls on wheels, BB-8 ... rolls.

But 3PO and R2 had been in service to Captain Antilles on a consular ship: you might think after a few years, they'd get a good going-over and maintenance to address any short-falls in construction/rebuilds prior. If anything, R2 would have fixed 3PO just to keep him quiet!
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Batman » 2016-01-08 10:26pm

So how much dust are they going to run into on that consular ship? Very little, you say? Then why exactly would Captain Antiles feel the need to refit the droids to operate in a desert environment?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby JamesStaley » 2016-01-09 09:05am

My my, what a can of fried tree worms (that's from B5) that i've opened up!

i LOVE IT!!

Let me relate a true story to you. I'm an airplane lover & go to every airshow I can get to. We used to have an Airshow in Oklahoma called "Aerospace America" (now sadly defunct) back in the '90's. I was at one of these shows when I saw two F-16 Fighting Falcons parked next to each other. The F-16 on the left/east side was spotlessly clean, the one of the west/right side looked like it had been dragged through the mud! The pilots were standing in front of their airplanes talking to the show goers so I went up and started asking them about their planes, starting with the pilot of the clean airplane. He told me that his unit had been ordered to send an airplane to the show months ago, so naturally wanting to represent their unit at its best, they took their best airplane, stripped it down, repainted it and didn't fly it until time for the show. It was a "show bird". Great! So I go over to the pilot of the "dirty bird" and he tells me that his airplane has been transfered from Texas to a unit on the East coast and that he was just "passing through", had stopped to refuel and the Air Force had given him permission to be stay overnight and take part in the show. So, which F-16 represented the "real" world? BOTH OF THEM!

On the subject of "cleanliness" Vs "dirt"......there's also this little matter of 'WAR" to be considered. I guarantee that when the shooting starts, nobody's going to care how pretty something looks!! That was one thing I noticed (& liked) about the Trade Federation battle tanks: they've been through many batttles and looked like it!

Thanks to everyone who respnded to my ramblings!
JS

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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Ralin » 2016-01-09 09:59am

Batman wrote:So how much dust are they going to run into on that consular ship? Very little, you say? Then why exactly would Captain Antiles feel the need to refit the droids to operate in a desert environment?


It's a big galaxy. Who knows what sort of worlds they're going to be called on to visit? Would be very embarrassing if one broke down in front of foreign dignitaries.

Come to think of it, Threepio would probably have been in service to the Organa household for twenty years at that point, wouldn't he?

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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Broomstick » 2016-01-09 02:07pm

JamesStaley wrote:He told me that his unit had been ordered to send an airplane to the show months ago, so naturally wanting to represent their unit at its best, they took their best airplane, stripped it down, repainted it and didn't fly it until time for the show. It was a "show bird". Great! So I go over to the pilot of the "dirty bird" and he tells me that his airplane has been transfered from Texas to a unit on the East coast and that he was just "passing through", had stopped to refuel and the Air Force had given him permission to be stay overnight and take part in the show. So, which F-16 represented the "real" world? BOTH OF THEM!

^ This reminds me of a discussion we had in a thread shortly after Flyboys was in the theaters regarding the state of cleanliness of the airplanes as depicted in the movie. Ah, here's the thread.

Verdict: working airplanes get dirty. But at the end of the day they can clean up nice.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Borgholio » 2016-01-09 03:57pm

Verdict: working airplanes get dirty. But at the end of the day they can clean up nice.


Interestingly, sometimes you don't WANT them to clean up nice. :) My father in law and I took a ride on the B-17 bomber Nine 'o Nine a couple years back. She had a sister plane, a B-24 called Witchcraft...both of which were operated by the Collins Foundation (a large air museum). Both planes took part in the war with the B-24 actually having participated in bombing runs in Europe. Both planes were well maintained but they looked like they had seen active service and were not "show quality". This actually added a great deal to their character.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Zwinmar » 2016-01-11 10:31am

Well, I know on ship that cleaning is quite literally continuous. That said, its a functioning warship with moving part, grease, oil, and all the rest that could make it dirty. So of course, the linoleum lined passageways that the officers traverse every day are going to be the cleanest if for no other reason than to keep their entitled noses out of the business of the people who actually work.

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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Khaat » 2016-01-11 12:11pm

Batman wrote:So how much dust are they going to run into on that consular ship? Very little, you say? Then why exactly would Captain Antiles feel the need to refit the droids to operate in a desert environment?

Is your question seriously, "Why would you maintain your 'droids?"
No so much in particular "for a desert environment", but routine, regular maintenance/evaluation.
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Why would you replace that gold-finish part with a silver-finish shin-piece instead of just leaving it bare or broken? Dunno, but someone did by ANH!
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Batman » 2016-01-11 04:37pm

Sometimes, when someone says 'refit the droids to operate in a desert environment' what they mean is 'refit the droids to operate in a desert environment', not Routine maintenance. Namely, the alleged anti-dust technology this whole thread is about?
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'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Khaat » 2016-01-12 03:06pm

I'll just color this part in with crayon a little more so you can see it:
Khaat wrote:No[t] so much in particular "for a desert environment", but routine, regular maintenance/evaluation.

Nothing in the OP says anything about desert environment-specific protections, but
JamesStaley wrote:i'm sure there's some kind of "Anti-dirt" tech at work.....

BB8 is on a single mission to Jakku, and it wouldn't make sense to be specifically refit with "anti-dirt tech for a desert environment", so the implication is that there may be a standard of protection for 'droids.
A standard of protection a kit-built-from-stolen-parts 3PO may not have, until made available later, when refurbished (and given a shell) in the service of a Queen/Senator (TPM/AotC)?
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby biostem » 2016-01-12 04:45pm

If you look at modern construction equipment, if it has hydraulic pistons, (like most bull dozers), you'll notice that when extended, those pistons are a nice clean chrome - they incorporate a scrubbing gasket of sorts, to prevent dust and dirt from getting into their inner workings. It wouldn't surprise me if BB8 had some sort of cleaning mechanism between where his head and body overlap, so as to prevent anything from mucking up their workings...

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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Broomstick » 2016-01-12 06:27pm

Since BB8 is an actual robot and not simply a CGI effect, it was taken into a real desert, it would be interesting to know if it has something of the sort in real life.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Prometheus Unbound » 2016-01-26 02:09pm

Federation ships are self cleaning by the 24th century.
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-01-26 02:16pm

Broomstick wrote:Since BB8 is an actual robot and not simply a CGI effect, it was taken into a real desert, it would be interesting to know if it has something of the sort in real life.


Yeah, it's called "someone picks it up, shakes it off, opens a hatch and pours out the dust" :P
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Re: "Dirt" Vs "Cleanliness"

Postby Captain Seafort » 2016-01-26 02:51pm

Elheru Aran wrote:Yeah, it's called "someone picks it up, shakes it off, opens a hatch and pours out the dust" :P


So, K-9 drill then? :P
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