JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

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JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Lancer Kind » 2015-12-16 03:07pm

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JJ Abrams was a controversial director for Star Trek. But perhaps he's the perfect fit for Star Wars. Here's an article about what Abrams has done with Trek and what he could do for Star Wars. At the end is a poll asking you if you think Star Wars will be better served by the Abrams/Disney combo or not.
http://LancerKind.com/2015/12/15/star-trek-rebooted-now-its-star-wars/
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Q99 » 2015-12-18 10:12pm

I'll say with the new SW, I could've gone for a bit more world building/establishing, and there were some hints of JJ's lack of sense of space's scale there... but all in all, he is a muuuuch better fit for Wars. It had the Star Wars vibe (ironically, for all that Trek tended lighter than the old movies, the new Wars seems lighter than new Trek), a solid plot, and it really seems to be part of a pre-planned arc. I think he may have better handlers (producers/studio people/etc.) working with him too, which always helps.

IMO he wasn't *perfect* for Star Wars... but he was a really good fit, and made a very strong launch point for the new era of the setting.

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby biostem » 2015-12-21 09:42pm

I don't know how much influence he had in the actual screenplay, but I felt like they played to too safe by essentially revisiting many of the previous plot elements, didn't really account for what happened between ROTJ and TFA, and didn't do enough to establish the character's backgrounds, (for the new ones).

For instance, how did Rey, who we see was abandoned at like age 5-7, survive to adulthood? Where'd she pick up all those skills from? Why is there a crashed Star destroyer, AT-AT, and other ships on the planet? Someone coming to the movie, only having watched the others, should get some inkling of what happened...

Perhaps they'll make another TV show, which covers the gap between Eps VI and VII

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Sgt_Artyom » 2015-12-22 12:11am

biostem wrote: Why is there a crashed Star destroyer, AT-AT, and other ships on the planet? Someone coming to the movie, only having watched the others, should get some inkling of what happened...

Perhaps they'll make another TV show, which covers the gap between Eps VI and VII


The Battle of Jakku is a major portion of the Star Wars novel "Lost Stars" which isn't all that old I think. You can also take part in the battle in Star Wars battlefront if that's your kind of thing.

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Broomstick » 2015-12-22 03:15am

I think the point was that not everyone is involved in the extended universe and there should be some consideration for the people shelling out buck to see the movie who aren't from the hardcore "buy everything" fanbase.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Grumman » 2015-12-22 04:14am

I think he's bad for everything. Abrams, Lindelof, Orci and Kurtzman are four names that I never want to see on a script.

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Captain Seafort » 2015-12-22 04:42am

biostem wrote:For instance, how did Rey, who we see was abandoned at like age 5-7, survive to adulthood? Where'd she pick up all those skills from?


That's something I expect we'll see a bit more of in the next two films

Why is there a crashed Star destroyer, AT-AT, and other ships on the planet? Someone coming to the movie, only having watched the others, should get some inkling of what happened...


This is Star Wars we're talking about - the key word in this case being war. Since this is the aftermath, it makes sense that some of the debris would still be lying around. On Earth, that debris is a burned-out tank by the side of the road, on Jakku it's an Executor and a few ISDs half buried in sand dunes. Why and how those ships ended up on that planet is irrelevant.

There are certainly aspects of the film that could have done with a rethink, but the first half of it was very solid.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Thanas » 2015-12-22 07:26am

Grumman wrote:I think he's bad for everything. Abrams, Lindelof, Orci and Kurtzman are four names that I never want to see on a script.


Agreed. He is probably the most overrated and overhyped writer in recent memory.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Ziggy Stardust » 2015-12-23 10:21am

Captain Seafort wrote:This is Star Wars we're talking about - the key word in this case being war. Since this is the aftermath, it makes sense that some of the debris would still be lying around. On Earth, that debris is a burned-out tank by the side of the road, on Jakku it's an Executor and a few ISDs half buried in sand dunes. Why and how those ships ended up on that planet is irrelevant.

There are certainly aspects of the film that could have done with a rethink, but the first half of it was very solid.


I agree with you that there was no need to discuss the details of that battle specifically, but it's still true that they gave very little context for what was going on in the universe. They had a brief and vague blurb in the opening scrawl, but there was no dialogue or anything that really gave a decent hint as to what was going on. I do expect they will build on that more, but it was still disorienting at times. I somewhat expect that this movie will look a bit better (in terms of the plot holes and inconsistencies that some people have been commenting on) when viewed through the context of whatever we learn in the next two films.

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby RogueIce » 2015-12-23 05:38pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
biostem wrote:For instance, how did Rey, who we see was abandoned at like age 5-7, survive to adulthood? Where'd she pick up all those skills from?


That's something I expect we'll see a bit more of in the next two films

It was (briefly) covered. You see that "Half Portion" alien guy put his hand on her shoulder. Apparently, she was entrusted to him initially. And it seems he at least took care of her until adulthood when she set out on her own. Given he appears to be the sort of "Boss Man" of their scavenger village.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Patroklos » 2015-12-23 06:03pm

He brought the correct energy to the franchise which the prequels largely failed to do. Sure he trashed any semblance of scale or logic in the world building to do so but even someone like me who is very critical of that sort of stuff is still excited to be in that universe again and see the next movies. If he can tame himself just a little bit (or his successors) instead of doing the exact same thing over again like he did for ST:ID, he can keep that fire lit.

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Lord Revan » 2015-12-23 07:25pm

well as far as we know JJ Abrams has 0 input on Episodes 8 and 9 so it remains to see if his successors can build up on the universe or not.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Q99 » 2015-12-24 12:56am

Lord Revan wrote:well as far as we know JJ Abrams has 0 input on Episodes 8 and 9 so it remains to see if his successors can build up on the universe or not.


Which is, frankly, really good. He delivered a very solid close out to one classic character's story, and got us invested in the stories of the others, and now people can build new worlds for those characters to explore in, and to explain things he left rough a bit better (which is a Star Wars tradition in itself ^^)

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Borgholio » 2015-12-24 01:41am

Well the writer and director for Episode 8 is Rian Johnson, who has some good credits under his belt such as Looper and Breaking Bad. Colin Trevorrow is directing Episode 9 and he did Jurassic World. So they have experience they can hopefully translate well into SW.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Grumman » 2015-12-24 05:27am

Borgholio wrote:Colin Trevorrow is directing Episode 9 and he did Jurassic World.

That is not reassuring. If Jurassic World was a Star Wars novel, it would be written by Kevin J. Anderson.

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Borgholio » 2015-12-24 02:57pm

I'll admit I never saw Jurassic World myself, but I heard from all my friends that it was an entertaining movie. Is it really not all that good?
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Alyrium Denryle » 2015-12-24 03:23pm

Borgholio wrote:I'll admit I never saw Jurassic World myself, but I heard from all my friends that it was an entertaining movie. Is it really not all that good?


Not as good as the original Jurassic Park, better than The Lost World. It was a fun movie, and Chris Pratt nailed it completely. It got me to care about raptors as characters, which is kinda fun. But it had its issues. From my perspective, they got the raptor training pretty much right in terms of the methodology (not necessarily what you can do with it and the raptor social system...oh dear) but at least the biological errors Made Sense. There were however some odd effects problems (if you want I will PM them to you, mostly having to do with scaling). There were a few scenes that from a writing perspective made little sense as well (just in terms of the narrative structure of movies like this. The Rules Of Disaster/Monster films). There was a subversion of a movie trope that just... failed...as well.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Grumman » 2015-12-24 06:00pm

Borgholio wrote:I'll admit I never saw Jurassic World myself, but I heard from all my friends that it was an entertaining movie. Is it really not all that good?

I would say it's a bad movie. For me, a good movie is one that has enjoyable lowbrow stuff, but is still passable at everything else. Jurassic Park qualifies, because the cool stuff was cool and everything else was adequate to not offend my sensibilities.

For starters Jurassic Park and Jurassic World are, at heart, zoos. They are facilities where animals are bred, raised and displayed for the public. This is basically a solved problem. In Jurassic Park containment only failed because a human sabotaged the security system so that he could commit a bit of industrial espionage. [spoiler=]Jurassic World pretends that a mere beast could engineer its own escape through guile.[/spoiler] That's the kind of insulting stupidity we usually get out of zombie movies.

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-12-30 06:43am

Grumman wrote:
Borgholio wrote:Colin Trevorrow is directing Episode 9 and he did Jurassic World.

That is not reassuring. If Jurassic World was a Star Wars novel, it would be written by Kevin J. Anderson.


To be fair, the failings of Jurassic World were more script-based than direction-based, as I recall.

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Ziggy Stardust » 2016-01-06 06:20pm

Grumman wrote:That's the kind of insulting stupidity we usually get out of zombie movies.


Well, to be fair, wasn't it either outright stated or heavily implied that the reason their security measures were so inadequate was the fact that the InGen security chief and Dr. Wu had kept secret from them some of the abilities they had bred into Indomitus Rex? I mean, the movie had plenty of plot holes, but there was at least more justification given then JUST "clever girl".

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Zoos ... a solved problem ... a mere beast could not engineer its own escape ...

Postby WATCH-MAN » 2016-01-07 02:11am

Grumman wrote:[...] Jurassic Park and Jurassic World are, at heart, zoos. They are facilities where animals are bred, raised and displayed for the public. This is basically a solved problem. In Jurassic Park containment only failed because a human sabotaged the security system so that he could commit a bit of industrial espionage. Jurassic World pretends that a mere beast could engineer its own escape through guile. That's the kind of insulting stupidity we usually get out of zombie movies.


10 Of The Greatest Zoo Animal Escapes

Top 11 Zoo Escapes

10 weirdest zoo animal escapes

7 Other Crafty Zoo Escapes

Monkeys Use Guile In Zoo Escape


Zoos ... a solved problem ... a mere beast could not engineer its own escape ...

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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Elfdart » 2016-03-22 03:25pm

Grumman wrote:I think he's bad for everything. Abrams, Lindelof, Orci and Kurtzman are four names that I never want to see on a script.


J.J. Abrams is the Vanilla Ice of film, so I wouldn't wish his clown act on the Twilight series, let alone something I liked.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Gandalf » 2016-03-22 08:25pm

To be fair to Vanilla Ice, he's actually quite the home renovator now.

I think what Abrams did best was to make Star Wars compelling (and economically viable) by showing a bunch of stuff and leaving it open for others to build the world. He effectively made TFA into an ad for the new SW universe, by showing a whole bunch of new stuff and tying it to beloved established properties. So he's good for SW as a commercial entity at the very least.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby Prometheus Unbound » 2016-03-23 01:03pm

Broomstick wrote:I think the point was that not everyone is involved in the extended universe and there should be some consideration for the people shelling out buck to see the movie who aren't from the hardcore "buy everything" fanbase.


I bought Star Wars Rebel Assault as a kid and that's the only star wars merchandice ive I've bought, owned or used, except Pod Racer game for PC in 1999.


I know nothing of the EU, none of the plots, none of the characters. And the EU got thrown out or something anyway.

and you know what I got, out of jsut seeing the films, and then watching TFA? I figured "well clearly the galactic civil war got very serious".

"Why is there a star destroyer crashed in the sand?"

Err - clearly there was a battle. I don't need to be told the dates and who fired the shots or why it's at that particular angle. It tells you everything in an image.
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Re: JJ Abrams good/bad for Trek, what about Star Wars?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-03-25 03:42pm

Actually, if you know much about Star Wars, you can figure out pretty easily what probably happened at Jakku. An Imperial fleet was destroyed, and the only likely opponent who could have dealt them a blow on that scale would be the post-Endor rebellion.

Everything you need to know indeed.


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