Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

SWvST: the subject of the main site.

Moderator: Vympel

User avatar
FaxModem1
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5945
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby FaxModem1 » 2015-10-28 08:53pm

Let's say that the wormhole is found, and the UFP meets the Old Republic(or New Republic if you want). What would happen if two interstellar democratic representative governments met? Would the UFP eventually petition to join the Republic? Would they even want to? What about the inverse? Would the Republic want to join the MUCH smaller United Federation of Planets? Would worlds break off from one or the other to join the greener grass on the other side, due to the UFP's better treatment of non-humans and lack of corruption or the Republic's advanced tech advantage?

And in a broad sense, what would happen if the Federation really did encounter such a huge government that wanted to join them? Would the UFP agree to such a shift in their demographics and structure? Would they hold off and say no?

What about the Republic? How much of the Federation's internal autonomy would stay, and how much of it would be re-organized and divided?
Image

User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14949
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: In Denial
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Batman » 2015-10-28 08:58pm

Err-what better treatment of nonhumans? How were aliens mistreated in the Old Republic?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 8535
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: Bound in a nutshell
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2015-10-28 09:11pm

I was wondering that. The corruption point is a reasonable one, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the UFP would not be as keen on outright joining the Republic as they would in exchanging technology and general trading.

Even if the Republic let them join as a semi-autonomous body (like the Corporate Sector) I doubt they would bother, there's no incentive to joining and plenty of problems: corruption, dealing with megacorps like the Trade Federation that seem to be antithetical to the UFP's attitude, having to use a galactic-standard currency and also the "Big fish in a small pond becomes tiny fish in vast pond" effect.

As for the Republic joining the UFP, are you kidding me? What would possibly possess them to do such a thing? Unless of course it's a grand plot by Sidious to make them join the UFP and cause such utter chaos in the new transitory government that he can launch his Separatist movement and kick off the Clone Wars early.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

User avatar
biostem
Jedi Master
Posts: 1408
Joined: 2012-11-15 01:48pm

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby biostem » 2015-10-28 09:22pm

Let's say these 2 groups meet, and the Federation decides *not* to join them... do you think that would *dissuade* less-than-ethical groups, like the Trade Federation, from visiting the planet to exploit them, anyway?

The cat is out of the bag, so to speak, so the UFP now has to decide how best to protect its interests - if they join the Republic, they'd be able to get some friendly trade going, so they could either buy or learn how to construct their own hyperdrives and ST-comparable equipment... I'm sure Earth and other Alpha-quadrant powers can offer some items that would be worth trading w/ the Republic.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11802
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-10-28 09:46pm

Why would they have to join the Republic to trade with them?

Of course, joining the Republic could ensure Republic protection, at least in theory. But considering the Republic didn't even stop the Trade Federation from occupying Naboo...

User avatar
Joun_Lord
Jedi Master
Posts: 1124
Joined: 2014-09-27 01:40am
Location: West by Golly Virginia

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Joun_Lord » 2015-10-28 10:03pm

I doubt they would join together if the only thing connecting them is a worm hole. Even if they were side by side I doubt they would join each other considering the differences in cultures. The Republic is capitalist, greedy to varying degrees, and probably doesn't have anything like a Prime Directive. The Federation would look on them with horror especially if its during a more violent era.

There might be trade but that would be at arms length. Now other groups would probably be more friendly. I could see the Ferengi dealing with groups like the Trade Federation or Corporate Sector Authority. Klingons might get along great with warrior groups like the Mand'ohs, Iridonians or Echani if they don't start a war with each other. Many races would be open to trading for the superior GFFA weapons and tech.

I could honestly see the Federation being so wary of the Republic their neighbors get a leg up over them tech-wise forcing the Federation to embrace the Republic just to stay intact.

The New Republic might be more open to being friend with the Federation then the Old just because they would probably want friend to assist them. In the old-EU they were so resource starved that even a few dozen outdated Dreadnaughts could help turn the tide against them. The Federation ain't much tech wise but once they upgrade their shit they might make a worthy ally to assist against the Empire. The addition of a few upgraded Federation ships to a battle might be able to sway it for them.

And depending on the era like the Dominion War era the Federation might be desperate for new allies. If the Republic showed up with their advanced tech, massive starships, and weapon technology that makes their phasers look like BB guns, it would be a godsend to them. Even ancient ships like the Invincible class Dreadnaught would probably be superior to anything they got.

If its during the TNG era, Data would probably be amazed at the sheer number of androids and probably a bit disgusted considering many are sapient but slaves. I doubt that would be a problem for the Federation at large considering the treatment Data sometimes got and the treatment intelligent holograms still got well into the Voyager era.

User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 8535
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: Bound in a nutshell
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2015-10-28 10:04pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:Why would they have to join the Republic to trade with them?

Of course, joining the Republic could ensure Republic protection, at least in theory. But considering the Republic didn't even stop the Trade Federation from occupying Naboo...


More to the point, the Trade Federation has large armed warships with swarms of cheap fighters, while the Republic has the Jedi who, as Qui-Gon said to Amidala "cannot fight a war for you." Republic protection seems to be political/legal wrangling at best.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11802
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-10-28 10:58pm

To be fair, one Jedi, properly applied, is probably worth a carrier full of star fighters.

Jedi aren't just about direct combat. Their skills at subterfuge and manipulation are impressive.

Edit: Or as Vader put it, "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 8535
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: Bound in a nutshell
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2015-10-28 11:00pm

Depending on when this wormhole appears, can one Jedi stop the Borg cubes from coming? Or stop the Dominion from attacking?
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2138
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Adam Reynolds » 2015-10-28 11:18pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Why would they have to join the Republic to trade with them?

Of course, joining the Republic could ensure Republic protection, at least in theory. But considering the Republic didn't even stop the Trade Federation from occupying Naboo...


More to the point, the Trade Federation has large armed warships with swarms of cheap fighters, while the Republic has the Jedi who, as Qui-Gon said to Amidala "cannot fight a war for you." Republic protection seems to be political/legal wrangling at best.

And yet those Trade Federation bureaucrats were crapping themselves at the idea of facing Jedi. They only resisted because a Sith Lord told them to. The strength of Jedi isn't directly waving lightsabers at armies of droids, it is their ability to get their lightsabers pointed at the right targets. It was a very close thing that Qui-Gon nearly cut through the blast door. Less than an additional minute and he would have had the Viceroy at lightsaber point, regardless of whether droidikas appeared.

Not to mention that the Jedi clearly expected a show of force to work in Attack of the Clones.
The Romulan Republic wrote:To be fair, one Jedi, properly applied, is probably worth a carrier full of star fighters.

Jedi aren't just about direct combat. Their skills at subterfuge and manipulation are impressive.

Edit: Or as Vader put it, "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

More importantly Jedi seem to be quite effective historically at recognizing when a threat exists and figuring out how to deal with it. The fact that they can see the future when not encumbered by the Dark Side has a great deal to do with it.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Depending on when this wormhole appears, can one Jedi stop the Borg cubes from coming? Or stop the Dominion from attacking?

Against the Borg, of course not. That is a threat that is unlike those Jedi are used to dealing with or effective against. The Trade Federation on the other hand would be extremely well suited to dealing with the Borg. Armies of battle droids cannot be assimilated. They might even get a full green light from the Senate in terms of dealing with them, in exchange for trade concessions.

Against the Dominion, Jedi would do what they had done historically. Get in and deal with the threat before it becomes one. Though the fact that the Founders are not a conventional organic enemy is an interesting threat. I wonder if Jedi abilities would be as effective against them. Though Jedi would clearly be able to detect changelings. Not to mention that it is likely that Star Wars security is capable of dealing with them. Changelings are not unknown to Star Wars and yet they don't seem to be a serious threat.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11802
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-10-28 11:20pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Depending on when this wormhole appears, can one Jedi stop the Borg cubes from coming? Or stop the Dominion from attacking?


A Jedi could be extremely useful for dealing with the Dominion. Their Force sensitivity could aid in detecting Changelings, and their role as negotiators could be used to avoid a conflict.

Against the Borg... well, the Borg don't really give a fuck about stealth or diplomacy for the most part, and eventually shear numbers will win out.

As I recall, it is explicitly said in Attack of the Clones that their are too few Jedi. After all, the Republic is a galactic civilization with thousands of worlds at least, while the Jedi were scraping the bottom of the barrel to send maybe low hundreds to Geonosis. Their might not be enough Jedi to put even one everywhere help is needed.

I suspect that the Republic relied very heavily on a myth of Jedi invincibility to maintain order by deterring people. We see signs of this in the Trade Federation guys initially being afraid of the Jedi in Phantom Menace, in Yoda deciding to keep the Jedi's weakness secret in Attack of the Clones.

This also means Geonosis was probably a disaster for the Republic, despite the "victory", because it showed that Jedi could be killed in large numbers and that you didn't need any special training or powers to do it, just enough firepower. And its probably part of why the Sith were such dangerous foes- because they always knew the Jedi were beatable, and could goad others into attacking them who would otherwise be cowed.

User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10385
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Lord Revan » 2015-10-29 12:14am

The Romulan Republic wrote:Why would they have to join the Republic to trade with them?

Of course, joining the Republic could ensure Republic protection, at least in theory. But considering the Republic didn't even stop the Trade Federation from occupying Naboo...

Should be noted that The Trade Federation was assisted by someone in the Republic Senate to make sure that the Republic was ineffectual and too caught in Red Tape to respond. Also Naboo was and had been a Republic member for an extended period (just how long I dunno but clearly more then a few years).

I'm quite sure that the Republic would show their "best side" to the Alpha Quadrant powers as would the Trade Federation, the Techno Union, the InterGalactic Banking Guild and so forth. The corruption and exploitation would begin once events in the Milky Way stopped being Front Page news in the Holonet.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 8535
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: Bound in a nutshell
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2015-10-29 12:41am

The "Myth of Jedi Invincibility" wouldn't apply to ST races. Mental powers like telepathy and so forth are not exactly rare in Trek, so I doubt the Jedi would be looked upon as anthing massively special, especially with such small numbers.

Yes, the Trade Federation crapped themselves at the thought of Jedi negotiators, but then they dropt he blast doors and bring out Droidekas, and the Jedi run. Sure, the Jedi exxpected a show of force to work at Geonosis, and how many of them died as a result? It would have been all of them if an actual army hadn't dropped out of the sky to save their asses.

Now I have a mental image of the Trade Federation sending envoys throughout the alpha quadrant looking for new partners, and probably concluding that only the Ferengi are any use to them as such.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11802
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-10-29 12:45am

Eternal_Freedom wrote:The "Myth of Jedi Invincibility" wouldn't apply to ST races. Mental powers like telepathy and so forth are not exactly rare in Trek, so I doubt the Jedi would be looked upon as anthing massively special, especially with such small numbers.


Quite true.

It might deter others in the Republic from messing with the Federation, though.

Yes, the Trade Federation crapped themselves at the thought of Jedi negotiators, but then they dropt he blast doors and bring out Droidekas, and the Jedi run. Sure, the Jedi exxpected a show of force to work at Geonosis, and how many of them died as a result? It would have been all of them if an actual army hadn't dropped out of the sky to save their asses.


True. The Jedi can be overwhelmed by sufficient fire power.

Arguably their best use is not as direct combatants. Certainly not unsupported direct combatants in major battles.

Now I have a mental image of the Trade Federation sending envoys throughout the alpha quadrant looking for new partners, and probably concluding that only the Ferengi are any use to them as such.


"Partner" implies equality. The Ferengi are hardly galactic scale. They'd be small fry to be bullied or bought out, I suspect.

Edited to fix typo.

User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 8535
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: Bound in a nutshell
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2015-10-29 01:08am

True they aren't galactic-scale, and "partner" is probably not the best term. "Affiliate" might be better.

As for the Jedi being most effective off the battlefield, that's certainly true. But how useful would they actually be operating in the alpha quadrant? No one is going to cave in and/or assist them purely because they're Jedi, because no ST race has that long cultural bias of Jedi Invincibility.

Let us suppose, for instance, that a pair of Jedi arrived in early season 3 of DS9 and decided to try and negotiate with the Founders to avoid a war. Why woudl the Founders listen? The Jedi are just more solids with fancy mental powers, hardly a surprise since they can breed Vorta to have such powers as well apparently. Things go south and the Jem'Hadar arrive to shoot the Jedi down.

Or maybe they go to Cardassia in early season 4 to negotiate a Cardassian-Klingon cease fire. Why would either side be willing to listen to a non-involved third party, even if they do have Force powers?

In general, I suspect that the Federation gaining Republic "protection" in the form of some Jedi ambassadors might actually be worse for them in the long run. I can't imagine Klingons, Romulans or Cardassians would take kindly to the Jedi using the Force to try and subtly coax them to peace, once they realised what was going on. And if they don't use the Force, then they're no more effective than other Federation diplomats, which have failed to prevent wars with those powers in the past. Once the other races catch on to such Jedi manipulations, they'll be mighty pissed at the Republic and the Federation for siding with them.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11802
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-10-29 01:42am

Eternal_Freedom wrote:True they aren't galactic-scale, and "partner" is probably not the best term. "Affiliate" might be better.


More like "lackey".

As for the Jedi being most effective off the battlefield, that's certainly true. But how useful would they actually be operating in the alpha quadrant? No one is going to cave in and/or assist them purely because they're Jedi, because no ST race has that long cultural bias of Jedi Invincibility.


Perhaps, but they could keep some Star Wars trouble makers off the Federation's back.

And while their may not be a myth of Jedi invincibility, their could easily be a myth of Republic invincibility. The Republic is gigantic compared to your typical Trek power. And the Jedi represent the Republic. So the implication is always their, implicitly or explicitly- "take us on and you're taking on the Republic."

Let us suppose, for instance, that a pair of Jedi arrived in early season 3 of DS9 and decided to try and negotiate with the Founders to avoid a war. Why woudl the Founders listen? The Jedi are just more solids with fancy mental powers, hardly a surprise since they can breed Vorta to have such powers as well apparently. Things go south and the Jem'Hadar arrive to shoot the Jedi down.


Not necessarily.

Given the lengthy machinations that preceded war with the Federation, I doubt the Founders would jump right into war with a galactic power.

Or maybe they go to Cardassia in early season 4 to negotiate a Cardassian-Klingon cease fire. Why would either side be willing to listen to a non-involved third party, even if they do have Force powers?


Because that third party has a galaxy-sized behemoth behind them.

In general, I suspect that the Federation gaining Republic "protection" in the form of some Jedi ambassadors might actually be worse for them in the long run. I can't imagine Klingons, Romulans or Cardassians would take kindly to the Jedi using the Force to try and subtly coax them to peace, once they realised what was going on. And if they don't use the Force, then they're no more effective than other Federation diplomats, which have failed to prevent wars with those powers in the past. Once the other races catch on to such Jedi manipulations, they'll be mighty pissed at the Republic and the Federation for siding with them.


They don't have to use freaking mind tricks to be exceptional diplomats. Being able to sense what the other people around them are thinking/feeling, sense what's coming... that's useful.

User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 8535
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: Bound in a nutshell
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2015-10-29 06:20pm

Yeah, knowing what others are thinking/feeling is useful, but the Federation already has races that can do that (Betazoids spring to mind). The point is that, outside of small-unit combat, they aren't exactly something unique and special.

As for the Republic backing the Federation, well, sure, that'll be useful against most threats, but the Republic, and I have to stress this, doesn't have a military to back up political protests against, say, the Klingons or the Romulans. Sure, they could probably whip something up to stop said enemy aggressors, but can they do it fast enough to save the Federation from taking severe losses?

Hell, once the Borg find out about the Republic and get some idea of the technology involved, they'll probably drive hell for leather to said wormhole to try and assimilate said tech, and the Federation is in the way and will get squashed in the crossfire.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11802
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-10-29 06:33pm

Well, if we go with the old ICS numbers or even anything in the same general area (because yes, the ICS is non-canon now), then the Republic could simply hire a few civilian craft or send a squadron of Jedi star fighters and it would be a real threat to the Klingons or Romulans.

The Borg are a bit tougher, and yeah the Federation being between them and the Republic could really suck for the Federation, but in that scenario, I honestly wonder if the Borg would mostly ignore the Federation and go for the bigger target.

Also, the Federation might be able to use trade with the Old Republic to upgrade its defences a bit. For that matter, I wonder weather they could hire a small fleet of Star Wars mercenaries. It doesn't really seem like the Federation's style, but they could pay them in raw materials if nothing else. The trick would be finding mercenaries you can trust not to turn on their employer.

User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14949
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: In Denial
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Batman » 2015-10-29 06:38pm

Depends on what you hire them for. I can absolutely see mercenaries going after the Borg. What are they going to do, offer them more money? Yeah, that's totally their style. They might not have true military hardware (and I wouldn't be too sure about that) but given the technological discrepancy I wouldn't be surprised if those mercenaries could make quite a dent in the Borg forces.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11802
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-10-29 06:39pm

I'm not thinking of the mercenaries turning on the Federation in favour of the Borg (that would be insane), but of some mercenary thinking "Hey, these Federation guys are really weak, so why not take them over and have my own mini-Empire?"

Edit: Though resolving that sort of thing seems like an area where Jedi would be very useful.

User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14949
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: In Denial
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Batman » 2015-10-29 06:49pm

The Federation may be small, but it's not that small. That's going to take one big mercenary outfit to achieve, even by Wars standards. Even if we accept the silly 150 planets number from FC, that's a lot of planets to control. Is that really worth the effort?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11802
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-10-29 06:53pm

Yeah, that makes sense.

And frankly, its a point that's often overlooked in Star Trek vs. Star Wars debates. I remember people saying stuff like one star destroyer could conquer the Federation. Whereas my attitude is basically "Yeah, maybe it could beat the fleet, if it didn't get devoured by some random super being or anomaly, but how the hell is it going to occupy all that territory?"

Iraq should have taught people that their's a world of difference between defeating the government/military of a country in battle and successfully occupying the territory afterward.

Edit: That doesn't mean, however, that a mercenary outfit couldn't carve out a few systems and hold them.

User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15322
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
Contact:

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby Knife » 2015-10-29 08:30pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Why would they have to join the Republic to trade with them?

Of course, joining the Republic could ensure Republic protection, at least in theory. But considering the Republic didn't even stop the Trade Federation from occupying Naboo...


More to the point, the Trade Federation has large armed warships with swarms of cheap fighters, while the Republic has the Jedi who, as Qui-Gon said to Amidala "cannot fight a war for you." Republic protection seems to be political/legal wrangling at best.


Oddly enough, when the Jedi started being 'Generals' to large groups of troops, they became very effective. Sure, sure, you can chalk that up to 'clones' being ready made to be Jedi troops, but in essence, Jedi are force multipliers. They actually can 'fight a war for you' per cannon. Qui Gon was wrong.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

User avatar
hunter5
Padawan Learner
Posts: 377
Joined: 2010-01-25 09:34pm

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby hunter5 » 2015-10-30 08:23pm

Knife wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Why would they have to join the Republic to trade with them?

Of course, joining the Republic could ensure Republic protection, at least in theory. But considering the Republic didn't even stop the Trade Federation from occupying Naboo...


More to the point, the Trade Federation has large armed warships with swarms of cheap fighters, while the Republic has the Jedi who, as Qui-Gon said to Amidala "cannot fight a war for you." Republic protection seems to be political/legal wrangling at best.


Oddly enough, when the Jedi started being 'Generals' to large groups of troops, they became very effective. Sure, sure, you can chalk that up to 'clones' being ready made to be Jedi troops, but in essence, Jedi are force multipliers. They actually can 'fight a war for you' per cannon. Qui Gon was wrong.
I though Qui Gon's statement was less about Jedi Fighting powers and more about it was only him and Obi Wan.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11802
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Would the UFP join the Republic, or vice versa?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2015-10-30 08:51pm

That makes sense.

Especially if he anticipated Maul's presence. After all, look at what happened. Qui-gon and Obi-wan more or less canceled out Maul's effect, leaving Padme's troops and the Gungans (and Anakin) to fight the rest of the battle.


Return to “Star Wars vs Star Trek”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests