That's The Last Straw! Now We Unleash Our Ultimate Weapon!

[Adam Reynolds]

Regarding the assertion of UFP superiority to Klingons. How does this account for the alternative timeline of Yesterday's Enterprise in which the Federation was losing a war of attrition to the Klingons? Though this war did start 22 years before the events of TNG, so if the Klingons were in decline, the decline could be at a point that 22 years ago they were still sufficiently powerful to do enough early damage to the UFP to make up for whatever weakness they had that would be more apparent in peacetime.

And there are deeper problems with the Federation military that are less apparent. Like the fact that the low level personnel panic in combat, while the experienced officers do well, regardless of physical strength differentials. This indicates extremely unrealistic training that does little to prepare their personnel for the stress of real combat.

[Batman]

Alternative timelines are irrelevant and real world personell-enlisted and officers alike-panicked all throughout human history. That doesn't necessarily mean they're badly trained. It just means they're human.

[Simon_Jester]

Regarding the assertion of UFP superiority to Klingons. How does this account for the alternative timeline of Yesterday's Enterprise in which the Federation was losing a war of attrition to the Klingons? Though this war did start 22 years before the events of TNG, so if the Klingons were in decline, the decline could be at a point that 22 years ago they were still sufficiently powerful to do enough early damage to the UFP to make up for whatever weakness they had that would be more apparent in peacetime.

One can make a pretty good case that the mid-2300s (the decades immediately prior to The Next Generation were something of a nadir of the Federation's relative military strength.

There's a certain amount of swashbuckling mentality present in the TOS era, even up to the end, that is simply gone the minute you see Picard take the bridge of the Enterprise-D. It pretty much has to have leaked out somewhere in the middle.

Tentatively, I'd say that the Klingon-Federation cold war of the 2200s saw the Federation waxing in strength, partly through its practice of theoretical science and by forming alliances with races that are firm friends of the Federation by the TNG era, like the Betazoids or the Trill. The Klingons were keeping pace until the moon Praxis blew up, which explicitly rendered the Klingons unable to keep up military competition with the Federation without being forced to let their homeworld die.

So the Klingons presumably underwent a military build-down, or retreated from frontier positions, and the Federation took that as a sign it could relax. This may well have resulted in them 'overcorrecting' some time in the 2330s or 2340s, to the point where the Klingons (by then rebuilding) might well have been capable of seriously damaging the Federation in a surprise attack and then starting to wear the Federation down.

That trend of Federation demilitarization in turn presumably reversed during the late TNG era, when the Federation realized it was up against a quite hostile neighborhood (the Ferengi as opportunistic pirates instead of comical cowards in the early TNG era, the Cardassians), in addition to longer-term threats like the Borg.

But by the end of the last canonical Star Trek series, the Klingons are a somewhat junior ally of the Federation.

The key point here is not that Starfleet, the collection of armed ships the Federation owns, was at all times capable of easily besting the Klingon military. The point is that Klingon militarism has not made them a dominant power in the Milky Way galaxy, and if anything may have been actively counterproductive.

Likewise, the other Alpha Quadrant civilizations with technical bases comparable to that of the Federation (the Romulans and Cardassians come to mind), are not stronger than the Federation, are not capable of meeting and besting enemies it can't handle, do not decisively and reliably win against it in conflicts, and are not spreading and outgrowing them among the stars.

So the Federation's relative lack of warlike mindset doesn't seem to be a handicap. Sure, it may reduce Starfleet's total ability to lob megatonnage of lethal energy at some moment in time. But it doesn't stop the Federation as a whole from surviving, thriving, growing, exploring, and meeting new challenges.

So while we may criticize the Federation for pacifism and dealing irrationally with threats by conceding too much to them... so far it seems to be working. Perhaps there really is, especially in the high-technology setting of Star Trek, something to be said for going to the stars with diplomats and scientists to understand what's out there, rather than going out to the stars with warriors to blow it up.

And there are deeper problems with the Federation military that are less apparent. Like the fact that the low level personnel panic in combat, while the experienced officers do well, regardless of physical strength differentials. This indicates extremely unrealistic training that does little to prepare their personnel for the stress of real combat.

Could you expand on this please? I admit I actually haven't watched that many individual episodes of the later Star Trek series and what I have seen is fairly scattershot, but I don't recall the redshirts habitually panicking.

[Adam Reynolds]

Alternative timelines are irrelevant and real world personell-enlisted and officers alike-panicked all throughout human history. That doesn't necessarily mean they're badly trained. It just means they're human.

Real life soldiers armed with rifles are not regularly overrun by opponents armed primarily with melee weapons. Federation soldiers are. It is the case that Klingons are considered the primary shock troops during the Dominion War despite their idiotic choice in primary weapon.

So while we may criticize the Federation for pacifism and dealing irrationally with threats by conceding too much to them... so far it seems to be working. Perhaps there really is, especially in the high-technology setting of Star Trek, something to be said for going to the stars with diplomats and scientists to understand what's out there, rather than going out to the stars with warriors to blow it up.

That was also an interesting point made in Mass Effect, the scientists and diplomats(salarians and asari) were easily on top. At least until the Reapers came, at which point the asari folded completely and the salarians became a low priority target for the Reapers. Only the more militant turians and easily violent krogan held out.

Though in a sense your point fails to account for just how lucky they have been. Relying on the luck of your individual starship commanders is a foolish proposition. Going back to the comparison with Mass Effect, the asari and salarians were smart enough to have the support of the turians, who ammased the largest conventional fleet in the galaxy as well as the most effective ground army, to back up their science and diplomacy. The Federation does not do this to the same degree. And the Federation does not have an enemy designed to beat them waiting in dark space that makes virtually all of the preparation irrelevant*.

* Though personally I've always thought the Reapers were among the least interesting elements of Mass Effect. The problem is that they are a classic video game enemy, one without motive, the perfect idealized enemy for a video game as they can be killed in mass without any sense of guilt. And they even use high-tech zombies to further that parallel. The overall setting would have worked better without them. So the endgame could simply be about working through the problems of the various factions rather than uniting everyone against a common enemy, something that never lasts in reality.

Could you expand on this please? I admit I actually haven't watched that many individual episodes of the later Star Trek series and what I have seen is fairly scattershot, but I don't recall the redshirts habitually panicking.

It is more that they are easily overrun by Klingons or Jem'Hadar in close combat while the main characters are able to hold out, even Kira and Dax, who are much smaller than their opponents. This is notably seen in Way of the Warrior and The Siege at AR-(whatever it was).

I was thinking it is probably due to Federation's use of holodecks for training. Because they likely train even infantry with this system, it would lead to unrealistic expectation in real combat and lead to the average recruit being unprepared for combat. Despite their pathetic tactics, Jem'Hadar and Klingons are nearly suicidally brave and would charge into weapons fire while the redshirts miss at 10 meters. Meanwhile the main characters, all being combat veterans, are capable of doing very well in those engagements. It would justify the hero syndrome that the series portrays.

[SilverDragonRed]

Simon_Jester, have you seen the fan-film 'Of Gods and Men'? It hits on the same points you raised about the UFP.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Simon, we see in ST6 that the proposed negotiations will, according to Spock, involve "the dismantling of our space stations and starbases along the Neutral Zone." An officer asks if this means "mothballing the Starfleet." to which the CINC says "our scientific and exploratory missions should be unaffected."

So, yeah, post-Khitomer, Starfleet may well have gone back to a almost purely scientific/exploration mission (which explains Picard's spiel in "Peak Performance"). This would neatly explain why so many Mirandas and Excelsiors were still in service, they were the tail-end of the 2200's cold war production that were kept aroudn because they could do sciency stuff in a pinch.

[Zeropoint]

Hmm, it could also explain some of Starfleet's design decisions leading up to the TNG era . . . the Galaxy class, for example, is on paper a design purpose-built for exploration, science, and diplomacy. But the unexplored universe is a dangerous place, don'tcha know, so . . . hmm, better make sure the ship can protect itself out there, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.

[FaxModem1]

For a while, Starfleet seemed to have a 'jack of all trades mentality'. While Excelsiors, Mirandas, Oberths, and Constellation class cruisers did their jobs for decades, Starfleet was readying the next generation(pun intended) to be bigger and better, and ready for whatever could be thrown at them.

The design process seemed to be make them big, but able to handle anything. Galaxy class ships were well rounded ships meant for exploration, science, transport, patrol, war, and diplomacy. The Nebula class ships seemed to follow a similar design, but could be modified to be better at science or war, depending on which pod was installed. After Wolf 359, ships became more specialized. The science stuff seemed to be separate post Wolf 359, to an extent. The Oberth was replaced with the Nova class, meant purely as a science ship, with minimal weapons. Defiant, Steamrunner, and Akira were solely for war, and Sovereigns were the new standard battleships but capable of the duties a Galaxy was.

[Simon_Jester]

Simon_Jester, have you seen the fan-film 'Of Gods and Men'? It hits on the same points you raised about the UFP.

I have not, but it seems a fairly obvious move to make. It does a great deal to explain why in 2294 Starfleet is still recognizably similar to what it was in the TOS era, but seventy years later (a century after TOS) there is almost no resemblance in terms of the internal culture.

The design process seemed to be make them big, but able to handle anything. Galaxy class ships were well rounded ships meant for exploration, science, transport, patrol, war, and diplomacy. The Nebula class ships seemed to follow a similar design, but could be modified to be better at science or war, depending on which pod was installed...

I'm rather vague on the design history of Star Trek ships, so it's hard for me to be sure which ships were being designed in which period of time, exactly, aside from obvious things like the Constitution -> Excelsior -> Ambassador -> Galaxy -> Sovereign evolution of the Federation's big expeditionary cruisers.

After Wolf 359, ships became more specialized. The science stuff seemed to be separate post Wolf 359, to an extent. The Oberth was replaced with the Nova class, meant purely as a science ship, with minimal weapons. Defiant, Steamrunner, and Akira were solely for war, and Sovereigns were the new standard battleships but capable of the duties a Galaxy was.

This part certainly wouldn't surprise me. The original Enterprise ("NCC one seven oh one. No bloody A, B, C, or D.") was pretty clearly a warship by primary intention- it had staterooms for passengers and small cargo bays for transporting critical supplies, and there were certainly some science labs, but most of the ship is occupied by its engineering spaces and weaponry.

[I could be comically wrong here, but that's based on what I know now]

A ship that is designed in this way will tend to be a lot more dangerous in a fight, because it has more firepower per ton even if another ship has a larger number of tons.

Whereas, well. There's probably a reason why on the Enterprise-D, the original battleplan was to ditch the gigantic saucer full of noncombatants and go into combat with only the engineering hull and nacelles, even though those only make up a minority of the ship's volume. Clearly, no one would do that unless the saucer was almost entirely dead weight for combat purposes. Because even if this is viewed as a way to get the noncombatants to safety... If the saucer had, say, half of the ship's firepower, the odds are good that the civilians would be safer in the saucer during a battle than they would be if an enemy managed to destroy the weaker stardrive section and then came looking for them.

[FaxModem1]

Well, going by Memory Alpha, the Galaxy class was being designed and built in the 2350s, with the Nebulas starting to be built in the 2360s. It's possible that the Nebula was like the Miranda class of its day, a smaller, more economic ship, but one that can pack just as much punch. or it is possible that both were being made at around the same time, with one meant as the big battleship, and the other as the cruiser, but both capable of doing the same job. The Excelsior, Constitution, Miranda and Oberth were all obviously around in the 2280s, and the Constellation and Ambassador were the period in-between.

The Excelsiors were a prototype in the 2280s(as seen in Star Trek III) and eventually became numerous enough in number that they were used at least to the 2360s(as the studio still had the model, and it was cheap to just reuse the same shot of an Excelsior coming by the Enterprise over and over). Captain DeSoto in the episode "Tin Man" even notes that is what the Excelsior is used for, as he makes the joke that while the Galaxy boys get to enjoy the Frontier, he and the other Excelsiors are moving their butts back and forth between starbases.

[Adam Reynolds]

Simon_Jester, have you seen the fan-film 'Of Gods and Men'? It hits on the same points you raised about the UFP.

I have not, but it seems a fairly obvious move to make. It does a great deal to explain why in 2294 Starfleet is still recognizably similar to what it was in the TOS era, but seventy years later (a century after TOS) there is almost no resemblance in terms of the internal culture.
I personally liked Mike Wong's theory: that genetic engineering has made the citizens of the Federation more cooperative but at the unintentional cost of decreasing their individual creativity. It would explain how communism seems to work for them but not for modern humans. As a result of the unintentional side effects, they banned research on genetic engineering both out of concern that they would make things worse and out of a concern that others would discover what they had done.

[FaxModem1]

Frankly, that's rather implausible, considering how much genetic engineering scares the crap out of the Federation, and that the UFP isn't really communist, we've had long discussions on that matter in the PST forum.

[Adam Reynolds]

Frankly, that's rather implausible, considering how much genetic engineering scares the crap out of the Federation, and that the UFP isn't really communist, we've had long discussions on that matter in the PST forum.

But why does genetic engineering scare them? It could be because they had used it on their own people and didn't want anyone to notice.

As for not being communist, if the UFP isn't really communist than neither is the Soviet Union.

[FaxModem1]

But why does genetic engineering scare them? It could be because they had used it on their own people and didn't want anyone to notice.

See Khan Noonien Singh, the Eugenics Wars, the Augments, and the Jack Pack as for why it scares the UFP.

As for not being communist, if the UFP isn't really communist than neither is the Soviet Union.

As for the UFP, does the UFP prevent people from leaving its borders? Are they not allowed to own property? Does the UFP regularly purge people who speak out against the state? Does the UFP try to incite and support communist revolutions in neighboring nations in order to spread the works of Lenin? Does the UFP have political officers on their ships to ensure party loyalty? Do enemies of the state face exile or execution?

No? Because the UFP, while not capitalist in the way most modern societies are, does seem to have some form of currency and ability to trade, as well as having banks(Bank of Bolias), private companies(Kasidy Yates Interstellar Freights, Ezri Tigan's company is a possibility, as it's unclear if this is in Federation space), independent traders(Kasidy Yates, Kivas Fajo) , and there is the fact that people are able to buy and sell land, own property, have knickknacks, etc.

Also, there is the question of what exactly the crew of the Enterprise were betting over during their regular poker games if they had no money.

[biostem]

As for the UFP, does the UFP prevent people from leaving its borders? Are they not allowed to own property? Does the UFP regularly purge people who speak out against the state? Does the UFP try to incite and support communist revolutions in neighboring nations in order to spread the works of Lenin? Does the UFP have political officers on their ships to ensure party loyalty? Do enemies of the state face exile or execution?

No? Because the UFP, while not capitalist in the way most modern societies are, does seem to have some form of currency and ability to trade, as well as having banks(Bank of Bolias), private companies(Kasidy Yates Interstellar Freights, Ezri Tigan's company is a possibility, as it's unclear if this is in Federation space), independent traders(Kasidy Yates, Kivas Fajo) , and there is the fact that people are able to buy and sell land, own property, have knickknacks, etc.

Also, there is the question of what exactly the crew of the Enterprise were betting over during their regular poker games if they had no money.

You are conflating the Soviet Union/Chinese style of how communism was practiced, versus the actual definition of communism. Basically, if the government controls the means of production, transportation, forms of communication/media, and so forth, then said society is communist. How many private shipyards have we seen in Star Trek? How many privately owned communication networks/companies have we seen? Are there many transporter stations or shuttle services owned and operated by non-startfleet personnel?

[FaxModem1]

You are conflating the Soviet Union/Chinese style of how communism was practiced, versus the actual definition of communism. Basically, if the government controls the means of production, transportation, forms of communication/media, and so forth, then said society is communist. How many private shipyards have we seen in Star Trek? How many privately owned communication networks/companies have we seen? Are there many transporter stations or shuttle services owned and operated by non-startfleet personnel?

How many shipyards have we seen, period? We've seen the ones where the Enterprise was made orbiting Earth, and we've seen the Utopia Plantia shipyards orbiting Mars, which also constructs Starfleet ships. And yet, we also seen civilian vessels all the time in Star Trek, docking and leaving Deep Space Nine, flights to and from one place to another on civilian ships. So, there have to be civilian shipyards, somewhere. There's also the Zakdorn Surplus Depot Z-15, essentially a space junkyard of ships for purchase, meaning someone is producing private spacecraft. Quark sold his ship for salvage for passage to DS9 in Little Green Men, did he sell it to Starfleet, or someone in the Federation?

Communications is an unknown, as we don't see many non-Starfleet calls. All this tells us is that Starfleet and the Federation government has their own communication infrastructure for dealing with call between Starfleet personnel. For all we know, there are civilian calls all the time with private companies.

[biostem]

You are conflating the Soviet Union/Chinese style of how communism was practiced, versus the actual definition of communism. Basically, if the government controls the means of production, transportation, forms of communication/media, and so forth, then said society is communist. How many private shipyards have we seen in Star Trek? How many privately owned communication networks/companies have we seen? Are there many transporter stations or shuttle services owned and operated by non-startfleet personnel?

How many shipyards have we seen, period? We've seen the ones where the Enterprise was made orbiting Earth, and we've seen the Utopia Plantia shipyards orbiting Mars, which also constructs Starfleet ships. And yet, we also seen civilian vessels all the time in Star Trek, docking and leaving Deep Space Nine, flights to and from one place to another on civilian ships. So, there have to be civilian shipyards, somewhere. There's also the Zakdorn Surplus Depot Z-15, essentially a space junkyard of ships for purchase, meaning someone is producing private spacecraft. Quark sold his ship for salvage for passage to DS9 in Little Green Men, did he sell it to Starfleet, or someone in the Federation?

Communications is an unknown, as we don't see many non-Starfleet calls. All this tells us is that Starfleet and the Federation government has their own communication infrastructure for dealing with call between Starfleet personnel. For all we know, there are civilian calls all the time with private companies.

IIRC, that salvage depot had decommissioned Starfleet and Vulcan starships. Can you reference a human/Earth-built, non-starfleet ship? We know that Ferengi have private ships, but that's not evidence for human ones. Non-Federation starships docking at a non-Federation owned starbase is not evidence of private starship ownership within the Earth/The Federation. We also know that the woman privateer/smuggler that made a few appearances on DS9 was basically all but an outlaw.

[Batman]

If you're referring to Cassidy Yates, she (mostly) was a legitimate businesswoman. Which doesn't mean she was operating within the Federation.

[Adam Reynolds]

See Khan Noonien Singh, the Eugenics Wars, the Augments, and the Jack Pack as for why it scares the UFP.

Sure, but that was genetic engineering in the opposite sense as what I was talking about. It was increasing intelligence rather than increasing cooperation.

As for the UFP, does the UFP prevent people from leaving its borders? Are they not allowed to own property? Does the UFP regularly purge people who speak out against the state? Does the UFP try to incite and support communist revolutions in neighboring nations in order to spread the works of Lenin? Does the UFP have political officers on their ships to ensure party loyalty? Do enemies of the state face exile or execution?

Why is Commander Troi a commander? That sounds an awful lot like a political officer. The fact that the UFP is not revolutionary does not mean they are not communist. And they are not brutal in the same sense as the Soviets, but that does not mean they do not deal with political dissent.

No? Because the UFP, while not capitalist in the way most modern societies are, does seem to have some form of currency and ability to trade, as well as having banks(Bank of Bolias), private companies(Kasidy Yates Interstellar Freights, Ezri Tigan's company is a possibility, as it's unclear if this is in Federation space), independent traders(Kasidy Yates, Kivas Fajo) , and there is the fact that people are able to buy and sell land, own property, have knickknacks, etc.

If those companies were part of a captialist economy why were they paid in commodities rather than currency? And people in the Soviet Union also in many cases owned property. But the critical factor is that citizens in the Federation lack wealth. That is the definition of a communist system.

Also, there is the question of what exactly the crew of the Enterprise were betting over during their regular poker games if they had no money.

They could have just been playing for fun. How else could you reconcile the fact that both Councilor Trou and Captain Picard have both expressed shock at the very concept of wealth? In most of the modern world, you would be hard pressed to find a society in which educated individuals would have this position.

How many shipyards have we seen, period? We've seen the ones where the Enterprise was made orbiting Earth, and we've seen the Utopia Plantia shipyards orbiting Mars, which also constructs Starfleet ships. And yet, we also seen civilian vessels all the time in Star Trek, docking and leaving Deep Space Nine, flights to and from one place to another on civilian ships. So, there have to be civilian shipyards, somewhere. There's also the Zakdorn Surplus Depot Z-15, essentially a space junkyard of ships for purchase, meaning someone is producing private spacecraft. Quark sold his ship for salvage for passage to DS9 in Little Green Men, did he sell it to Starfleet, or someone in the Federation?

But those civilian ships are all the equivalent of space greyhound rather than individual ships. That fits a communist society. Quark is outside of the Federation, and Zakdorn Depot Z-15 was a Federation installation, run by the government.

Communications is an unknown, as we don't see many non-Starfleet calls. All this tells us is that Starfleet and the Federation government has their own communication infrastructure for dealing with call between Starfleet personnel. For all we know, there are civilian calls all the time with private companies.

So why did Quark have to illegally use Federation communication systems to broadcast advertisements?

If you're referring to Cassidy Yates, she (mostly) was a legitimate businesswoman. Which doesn't mean she was operating within the Federation.

She did pay her crew in commodities rather than currency, indicating that she was involved in the black market. She also eventually went to prison for supplying the Marquis.

[Batman]

Actually given the allegedly moneyless nature of Federation her paying them in commodities could just as easily indicate she wasn't. The black market would be what would've given her the means to pay in currency.

[FaxModem1]

Kasidy Yates, is more than likely a Federation citizen, as she has family on Cestus III, works for the Federation, and was arrested for crimes against the Federation.

As I said in the Miles O'brien bar tab thread:link

Second, her being an independent trader does not mean she lives outside the Federation, especially as she seems to do a lot of trade in Federation space. It could only mean she's not affiliated with Starfleet or any major company, not that she's some sort of expatriate. Especially as she gets arrested by the Federation in season four, proving that she's a Federation citizen(or that the Federation arrests non-Federation citizens in regards to the Maquis).

And later on:link

However, I actually re-watched "Family Business" earlier this week, and looking at Memory Alpha, I was able to find some things. She mentions that the ship she has, the Xhosa, can't transport 'unstable biomatter' because of outdated transporters, and instead has to be loaded by hand onto the ship.which is due to her working for the Petarians, who only gave her Mark V transporters instead of Mark VIIs. This makes it seem as if the ship itself or ship parts are supplied by the Petarians to her.

However, later on, Kasidy is working for the Bajorans, but still has the Xhosa. So either the ship was part of the deal, or she was just under contract to the Petarians for some parts, or they loaned out some equipment for the freight and took it back once the contract was over.

Also, Kasidy seems to be businesslike, as she owns her own company. So, again, the Federation either arrests non-Federation citizens, or there are companies in Federation space that chart cargo, freight and passengers for profit. They just aren't a crazy obsessed money society like the Ferengi are.

[FaxModem1]

IIRC, that salvage depot had decommissioned Starfleet and Vulcan starships. Can you reference a human/Earth-built, non-starfleet ship? We know that Ferengi have private ships, but that's not evidence for human ones. Non-Federation starships docking at a non-Federation owned starbase is not evidence of private starship ownership within the Earth/The Federation. We also know that the woman privateer/smuggler that made a few appearances on DS9 was basically all but an outlaw.

Human built? Maybe. We do have evidence of non-Starfleet ships there. link. It rather looks like the Antares Class, which is the same class as Kasidy's ship the Xhosa. Though there are also Klingon ships in that junkyard, so it could be a rather universal thing.

Notice the ship in the center at the bottom.

We do have Federation transports and civilian vessels, such as the Dorian, the freighter Arcos,, theSS Augyn, and a whole host of others.

We do know the Rigelians(Federation members), had freighters of their own. Further proving that there were civilian vehicles for people to use.

Star Trek has always made starship travel that you have to commit to if you want to have a ship of your own, such as working in trade on a freighter, transport, or whatever, or being absurdly rich or criminal enough to have one of your own, such as Kivas Fajo or Arctus Baran. Both of which were employed in some fashion by an outside party to get a job done.

Starships in Star Trek aren't the equivalent of yachts or cars, but as sailing ships in the 19th century or earlier, travelling from one place to another to achieve a goal. So you probably won't see 'Honest John's Shuttle dealership', because it doesn't go with the style of the show. Would you expect to find such a thing in 1600s London?

In episodes wherein they have to find civilian transport, such as in Chain of Command, they charter someone's service instead of getting a ship of their own. Quark had to be given a ship by his cousin in order to even travel on his own from place to place. It seems that in Star Trek, owning a freighter or transport is way too expensive for the average individual, and it's better that if you want to go somewhere, just to charter a ship, unless you plan on it being your livelihood.

This does not make the Federation communist, it just means that owning a ship is rather expensive.

[FaxModem1]

Why is Commander Troi a commander? That sounds an awful lot like a political officer. The fact that the UFP is not revolutionary does not mean they are not communist. And they are not brutal in the same sense as the Soviets, but that does not mean they do not deal with political dissent.

Lt. Commander, and probably because she's spent years in Starfleet, has her doctorate, and made her way up the ranks? Would it shock you to know that there are Majors and Lt. Colonels who are psychiatrists in the US military? Does this mean that they are also political officers and that the US is a communist organization?

Otherwise, where are the political officers on the Defiant, on the Equinox, on Voyager, etc?

[SilverDragonRed]

I think the one thing that can be definitely said about the Feddie's economy is that their currency is weaker than the gold-pressed latinum standard that the Ferengi use as money.

[Lord Revan]

there's talk of "federation credits" as UFP currency but it's never well definied